From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from <gentoo-user+bounces-136847-garchives=archives.gentoo.org@lists.gentoo.org>) id 1SCdvp-0006XH-Fb for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:27:59 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C8B34E0B85; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:27:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.muc.de (colin.muc.de [193.149.48.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CFEAE0B6C for <gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org>; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:25:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 34455 invoked by uid 3782); 27 Mar 2012 21:25:38 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (pD951AFEC.dip.t-dialin.net [217.81.175.236]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:25:37 +0200 Received: (qmail 3481 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Mar 2012 21:24:22 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:24:22 +0000 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: After /usr conflation: why not copy booting software to /sbin rather than initramfs? Message-ID: <20120327212422.GA3437@acm.acm> References: <20120327133728.GA3754@acm.acm> <01c301cd0c22$2fac1300$8f043900$@kutulu.org> <20120327142646.GB3754@acm.acm> <20120327154620.21440f87@digimed.co.uk> <86iphq0vza.fsf@jane.chrekh.se> <003e01cd0c53$a2e99b90$e8bcd2b0$@kutulu.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org> List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-user+help@lists.gentoo.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-user+unsubscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-user+subscribe@lists.gentoo.org> List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-user.gentoo.org> X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <003e01cd0c53$a2e99b90$e8bcd2b0$@kutulu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Archives-Salt: e07e0b18-e510-4534-b303-ee9e5ca972e5 X-Archives-Hash: a5cfae70fa940ea804dcbcc19b91296e Hi, Mike. On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 03:56:01PM -0400, Mike Edenfield wrote: > > From: che@chrekh.se [mailto:che@chrekh.se] > > Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> writes: > > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:26:46 +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > >> > As you move more and more software off of /usr into / you start to > > >> > realize that the idea of "tiny partition that contains just what I > > >> > need to boot and mount /usr" is becoming "not so tiny" anymore. The > > >> > distinction between what is "boot" software versus "user" software > > >> > gets less clear. > > >> Again, isn't this the same for an initramfs? > > > No, because an initramfs only needs enough to mount / and /usr, then > > > everything else comes from the usual source. If you're not using and > > > fancy block devices, the initramfs only needs busybox and an init > script. > > > Even adding LVM, RAID and encryption only requires three more binaries > > > - and those are all disposed of once switch_root is run and the tmpfs > > > released. > > The question remains. If it's possible to do that from an initramfs, then > > shouldn't it be possible to put the same tools and binarias on /, and > mount > > /usr early? I don't think you've understood the question - you certainly haven't answered it. > Yes , of course it's /possible/, it's just not /practical/. Why not? > Changing the contents of your initramfs is a decision you, as an admin, make > that affects your system(s). s%initramfs%/sbin%, then how does the sentence not apply? > Changing the installed location of, say, udevd and bluetoothd and whatever > other tools need to get pulled out of /usr is a decision that affects > everyone who is using those packages. Changing the order of init scripts is > an even bigger mess, but mostly because of the software requirements to make > it function. That is precisely what the question was NOT about. The idea was to copy (not move) booting software to /sbin instead of an initramfs - the exact same programs, modulo noise - to have the SW in /sbin necessary to mount /usr. Our loveable upstream suppliers are making us mount /usr early in the boot process. Why can't this be done as well from /sbin as from initramfs? [ .... ] > --Mike -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).