[gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[Maxim Wexler]

I like gentoo; there's a steep learning curve but after you pass that
it just clicks. As difficult as it ever became there was always an
answer to be found, on a blog, irc, documentaiton...

But I might have to give up on gentoo if I can't find a way to fix
this latest difficulty. I live in the hinterland where there is no
broadband. I have to make do with a dialup modem over ~10mi of copper
wire. Now I find I can no longer dialup the internet using ppp command
#pon <isp>. The modem lights come on and the log says the DNS have
been all been assigned. status=0x0. But I can't ping out. 'Host
unreachable'.

As slow as my connection is, I've always been able to sync portage and
use bash to write a link file which I can download at the free wifi in
town. Now I can't even do that.

I suspect this has something to do with the openrc which seems to be
steadily "improving".. There  are no error msgs other than the ping
error above. I'm sure this is gentoo specific because it doesn't
affect the Ubuntu side of my pc(yet ;().where I'm typing this.  In
ubuntu I have to rmmod my wifi and ethn drivers or the same thing
happens: modem lights up, log says everything fine, but no internet.
Once every other bit of net hardware comes down, the web is reachable.
This USED to be the case for gentoo as well, but now, even that
doesn't help.

The landline gets no respect. Now gmail is making angry noises cause I
won't give them my mobile number. But I don't have one. There isn't
even coverage out here.

Broadband and dialup used to get along but those days seem to be gone.

Hope somebody can see a way out.

MW

Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Maxim Wexler <maxim.wexler@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like gentoo; there's a steep learning curve but after you pass that
> it just clicks. As difficult as it ever became there was always an
> answer to be found, on a blog, irc, documentaiton...
>
> But I might have to give up on gentoo if I can't find a way to fix
> this latest difficulty. I live in the hinterland where there is no
> broadband. I have to make do with a dialup modem over ~10mi of copper
> wire. Now I find I can no longer dialup the internet using ppp command
> #pon <isp>. The modem lights come on and the log says the DNS have
> been all been assigned. status=0x0. But I can't ping out. 'Host
> unreachable'.
>
> As slow as my connection is, I've always been able to sync portage and
> use bash to write a link file which I can download at the free wifi in
> town. Now I can't even do that.
>
> I suspect this has something to do with the openrc which seems to be
> steadily "improving".. There  are no error msgs other than the ping
> error above. I'm sure this is gentoo specific because it doesn't
> affect the Ubuntu side of my pc(yet ;().where I'm typing this.  In
> ubuntu I have to rmmod my wifi and ethn drivers or the same thing
> happens: modem lights up, log says everything fine, but no internet.
> Once every other bit of net hardware comes down, the web is reachable.
> This USED to be the case for gentoo as well, but now, even that
> doesn't help.
>
> The landline gets no respect. Now gmail is making angry noises cause I
> won't give them my mobile number. But I don't have one. There isn't
> even coverage out here.
>
> Broadband and dialup used to get along but those days seem to be gone.
>
> Hope somebody can see a way out.

This is far from ideal, but I have been able to work around situations
like this. You need to rsync the portage tree by hand to a USB drive
in the wi-fi cafe, and then rsync again by hand in your house. Then,
you run:

emerge --metadata

Then, you get the list of URLs you need to download to emerge world:

emerge -uDNvfp world > urls

You need to edit the file to remove duplicates and redundant mirrors
(I can usually do it inside emacs in two minutes or less), and then
check what files you already have in /usr/portage/distfiles (with a
tiny bash script). You get the list of files you need, and only select
those from the list of URLs, and then you have the files you need to
download. You go back to the wi-fi cafe, download the files on a USB
drive, and return home to put them on /usr/portage/distfiles. And then
you can upgrade world.

It sucks, since you need to drive twice to the wi-fi cafe, but it works.

Hope it helps.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[v_2e]

  Hello!

On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 18:44:20 -0600
Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> You need to edit the file to remove duplicates and redundant mirrors
> (I can usually do it inside emacs in two minutes or less), and then
> check what files you already have in /usr/portage/distfiles (with a
> tiny bash script). You get the list of files you need, and only select
> those from the list of URLs, and then you have the files you need to
> download. You go back to the wi-fi cafe, download the files on a USB
> drive, and return home to put them on /usr/portage/distfiles. And then
> you can upgrade world.
> 
  I just wanted to note that it may be unnecessary to edit a list of
files in editor to remove the extra mirrors. I usually do:

cat files-to-fetch.lst | cut -d " " -f1 | wget -c -i -

and it downloads only using the first mirror for every file. It doesn't
check for the existing files though. So it depends on the situation. I
use my broadband Internet connection at work to fetch any number of
files for my home PC. So it doesn't matter for me whether I download
some files that I already have, but it may be important in your case.
  Perhaps, it would be useful if emerge had such a feature - to
generate a list of files that do really need to be downloaded.

  Regards,
    Vladimir


----- 
 <v_2e@ukr.net>

Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[Maxim Wexler]

>
> cat files-to-fetch.lst | cut -d " " -f1 | wget -c -i -
>

I know how to generate a fetch list and wget the files. The problem is
syncing portage on another machine, my netbook, ubuntu-based. Or
maybe, I could boot sysresc on the netbook. It's gentoo based IIRC and
do a re-sync back home as per C P Valdes.

Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[v_2e]

  Hello!

On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:26:21 -0600
Maxim Wexler <maxim.wexler@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... The problem is syncing portage on another machine, my netbook,
> ubuntu-based. 
> 
  You could just download the portage snapshot and unpack it on your
Gentoo machine.

  Regards,



----- 
 <v_2e@ukr.net>

[gentoo-user] Re: Goodbye to gentoo?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 19/03/12 02:36, Maxim Wexler wrote:
> As slow as my connection is, I've always been able to sync portage and
> use bash to write a link file which I can download at the free wifi in
> town. Now I can't even do that.

Get satellite Internet :-P

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Goodbye to gentoo?

[Eliezer Croitoru]

On 19/03/2012 02:52, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 19/03/12 02:36, Maxim Wexler wrote:
>> As slow as my connection is, I've always been able to sync portage and
>> use bash to write a link file which I can download at the free wifi in
>> town. Now I can't even do that.
>
> Get satellite Internet :-P
>
>
and it will cost him fortune...
if you do have dial-up connection it's really annoying to use gentoo.
if you do know what you want to build your system for and with you can 
handle it.
but if you want to change some stuff you will need to make the whole 
trip and i think it's not worth it.
what are you doing with the computer?

-- 
Eliezer Croitoru
https://www1.ngtech.co.il
IT consulting for Nonprofit organizations
elilezer <at> ngtech.co.il

[gentoo-user] Re: Goodbye to gentoo?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 19/03/12 03:01, Eliezer Croitoru wrote:
> On 19/03/2012 02:52, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 19/03/12 02:36, Maxim Wexler wrote:
>>> As slow as my connection is, I've always been able to sync portage and
>>> use bash to write a link file which I can download at the free wifi in
>>> town. Now I can't even do that.
>>
>> Get satellite Internet :-P
>>
>>
> and it will cost him fortune...

The equipment is not cheap, yes.  Around $600.  The subscription fee 
though is OK.  It's just $60 to $80 a month.

Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[William Kenworthy]

On Sun, 2012-03-18 at 18:36 -0600, Maxim Wexler wrote:
> I like gentoo; there's a steep learning curve but after you pass that
> it just clicks. As difficult as it ever became there was always an
> answer to be found, on a blog, irc, documentaiton...
> 
> But I might have to give up on gentoo if I can't find a way to fix
> this latest difficulty. I live in the hinterland where there is no
> broadband. I have to make do with a dialup modem over ~10mi of copper
> wire. Now I find I can no longer dialup the internet using ppp command
> #pon <isp>. The modem lights come on and the log says the DNS have
> been all been assigned. status=0x0. But I can't ping out. 'Host
> unreachable'.
> 
> As slow as my connection is, I've always been able to sync portage and
> use bash to write a link file which I can download at the free wifi in
> town. Now I can't even do that.
> 
> I suspect this has something to do with the openrc which seems to be
> steadily "improving".. There  are no error msgs other than the ping
> error above. I'm sure this is gentoo specific because it doesn't
> affect the Ubuntu side of my pc(yet ;().where I'm typing this.  In
> ubuntu I have to rmmod my wifi and ethn drivers or the same thing
> happens: modem lights up, log says everything fine, but no internet.
> Once every other bit of net hardware comes down, the web is reachable.
> This USED to be the case for gentoo as well, but now, even that
> doesn't help.
> 
> The landline gets no respect. Now gmail is making angry noises cause I
> won't give them my mobile number. But I don't have one. There isn't
> even coverage out here.
> 
> Broadband and dialup used to get along but those days seem to be gone.
> 
> Hope somebody can see a way out.
> 
> MW
> 

Hi Maxim, what changed when the modem stopped working?

Also can you supply the output of the "route -n" and ifconfig commands
to give us a chance of seeing if anything has gone adrift there.  Also
if you are using (and have tested that its not the problem) any firewall
running.

When I was on dialup, routing (issues) was always a problem and if your
modem comes up and ppp is working (i.e., dns has been assigned) this is
a possibility.

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[Pandu Poluan]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2461 bytes --]

On Mar 19, 2012 8:51 AM, "William Kenworthy" <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 2012-03-18 at 18:36 -0600, Maxim Wexler wrote:
> > I like gentoo; there's a steep learning curve but after you pass that
> > it just clicks. As difficult as it ever became there was always an
> > answer to be found, on a blog, irc, documentaiton...
> >
> > But I might have to give up on gentoo if I can't find a way to fix
> > this latest difficulty. I live in the hinterland where there is no
> > broadband. I have to make do with a dialup modem over ~10mi of copper
> > wire. Now I find I can no longer dialup the internet using ppp command
> > #pon <isp>. The modem lights come on and the log says the DNS have
> > been all been assigned. status=0x0. But I can't ping out. 'Host
> > unreachable'.
> >
> > As slow as my connection is, I've always been able to sync portage and
> > use bash to write a link file which I can download at the free wifi in
> > town. Now I can't even do that.
> >
> > I suspect this has something to do with the openrc which seems to be
> > steadily "improving".. There  are no error msgs other than the ping
> > error above. I'm sure this is gentoo specific because it doesn't
> > affect the Ubuntu side of my pc(yet ;().where I'm typing this.  In
> > ubuntu I have to rmmod my wifi and ethn drivers or the same thing
> > happens: modem lights up, log says everything fine, but no internet.
> > Once every other bit of net hardware comes down, the web is reachable.
> > This USED to be the case for gentoo as well, but now, even that
> > doesn't help.
> >
> > The landline gets no respect. Now gmail is making angry noises cause I
> > won't give them my mobile number. But I don't have one. There isn't
> > even coverage out here.
> >
> > Broadband and dialup used to get along but those days seem to be gone.
> >
> > Hope somebody can see a way out.
> >
> > MW
> >
>
> Hi Maxim, what changed when the modem stopped working?
>
> Also can you supply the output of the "route -n" and ifconfig commands
> to give us a chance of seeing if anything has gone adrift there.  Also
> if you are using (and have tested that its not the problem) any firewall
> running.
>
> When I was on dialup, routing (issues) was always a problem and if your
> modem comes up and ppp is working (i.e., dns has been assigned) this is
> a possibility.
>
> BillK
>

Hmmm...

This happening after openrc upgrade?

Can you post the contents of /etc/conf.d/net also?

Rgds,

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Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[Maxim Wexler]

>
> Hi Maxim, what changed when the modem stopped working?

Dunno

>
> Also can you supply the output of the "route -n" and ifconfig commands
> to give us a chance of seeing if anything has gone adrift there.  Also
> if you are using (and have tested that its not the problem) any firewall
> running.

I don't use the /etc/conf.d/net file. Also all net hotplug services
are turned of in rc.conf.
route -n shows nothing except ppp0
(this is from ubuntu, but it was the same for gentoo when it was working)
root@gnubu:~# route -n
Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         U     0      0        0 ppp0
161.184.0.199   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.255 UH    0      0        0 ppp0

(also from the ubuntu side)
root@gnubu:~# ifconfig ppp0
ppp0      Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol
          inet addr:161.184.44.73  P-t-P:161.184.0.199  Mask:255.255.255.255
          UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:5867 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:6439 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:3
          RX bytes:1694892 (1.6 MB)  TX bytes:746705 (746.7 KB)


ifconfig eth0 and wlan0 are empty because I rmmod'd the drivers. I
only use them when talking to the router or another pc on a lan, I set
them up manually and take them down when not in use. Otherwise the web
is unreachable. This true for Ubuntu and gentoo.

There is no firewall as far as I know.

MW

Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[Matthew Finkel]

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On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Maxim Wexler <maxim.wexler@gmail.com>wrote:

> >
> > Hi Maxim, what changed when the modem stopped working?
>
> Dunno
>
> >
> > Also can you supply the output of the "route -n" and ifconfig commands
> > to give us a chance of seeing if anything has gone adrift there.  Also
> > if you are using (and have tested that its not the problem) any firewall
> > running.
>
> I don't use the /etc/conf.d/net file. Also all net hotplug services
> are turned of in rc.conf.
> route -n shows nothing except ppp0
> (this is from ubuntu, but it was the same for gentoo when it was working)
> root@gnubu:~# route -n
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use
> Iface
> 0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         U     0      0        0
> ppp0
> 161.184.0.199   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.255 UH    0      0        0
> ppp0
>

I am too young to know the details of dial-up, but going on the assumption
that it uses DHCP or something similar, that last line is definitely a
problem. In order for packets to reach an outside network, they need to
know where to go. This may be your local router or a router from your ISP.
Regardless of the configuration, with a gateway of 0.0.0.0, any packets
with a destination on the internet will never get there. Because you
experience this problem under both Gentoo and Ubuntu, it sounds like an
issue elsewhere. Does the other computer on your LAN have a problem
accessing the internet?

- Matt

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Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[William Kenworthy]

On Sun, 2012-03-18 at 22:44 -0600, Maxim Wexler wrote:
> >
> > Hi Maxim, what changed when the modem stopped working?
> 
> Dunno
> 
> >
> > Also can you supply the output of the "route -n" and ifconfig commands
> > to give us a chance of seeing if anything has gone adrift there.  Also
> > if you are using (and have tested that its not the problem) any firewall
> > running.
> 
> I don't use the /etc/conf.d/net file. Also all net hotplug services
> are turned of in rc.conf.
> route -n shows nothing except ppp0
> (this is from ubuntu, but it was the same for gentoo when it was working)
> root@gnubu:~# route -n
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
> 0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         U     0      0        0 ppp0
> 161.184.0.199   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.255 UH    0      0        0 ppp0
> 
> (also from the ubuntu side)
> root@gnubu:~# ifconfig ppp0
> ppp0      Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol
>           inet addr:161.184.44.73  P-t-P:161.184.0.199  Mask:255.255.255.255
>           UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>           RX packets:5867 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>           TX packets:6439 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>           collisions:0 txqueuelen:3
>           RX bytes:1694892 (1.6 MB)  TX bytes:746705 (746.7 KB)
> 
> 
> ifconfig eth0 and wlan0 are empty because I rmmod'd the drivers. I
> only use them when talking to the router or another pc on a lan, I set
> them up manually and take them down when not in use. Otherwise the web
> is unreachable. This true for Ubuntu and gentoo.
> 
> There is no firewall as far as I know.
> 
> MW
> 

The last route looks correct ... the wildcard might or might not be.

Try and remove it and add a normal default route.

Look up the "route" command if not familiar with the how.

Just a comment, when ignoring the networking files in an operating
system to do it yourself manually, dont be surprised if YOU have broken
something.  I usually do my own thing too as I am not impressed with the
way gentoo handles its networking, though under openrc its better.

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Sun, 18 Mar 2012, Maxim Wexler wrote:
>root@gnubu:~# route -n
>Kernel IP routing table
>Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
>0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         U     0      0        0 ppp0
>161.184.0.199   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.255 UH    0      0        0 ppp0

I'm on a Suse ATM[1], but as I do my networking config "by hand" that
should not matter. Above looks wrong. It should look like:

# route -n
161.184.0.199   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.255 UH    0      0        0 ppp0
[or:161.184.0.0 0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 ppp0]
0.0.0.0       161.184.0.199     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 ppp0
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^                      ^
                your ppp assigned P-t-P           gateway flag

So, have a look at how the route gets set. Manually, a

# route del default
# route add default gw 161.184.0.199

should suffice. Don't know the 'ip' syntax, but luckily that doesn't
matter, as both commands just push stuff to the kernel ;)

Looking at my much outdated gentoo's /etc/conf.d/net.eth0, that'd have
to be in your /etc/conf.d/ppp0 (or current equivalent)

====
routes_ppp0=( "default via 161.184.0.199" )
mtu_ppp0="1492"
====

No idea at all how this is handled with dialup on gentoo. When I still
used dialup (>10 years ago, IIRC?), I used wvdial, since then, I used
my own shell-scripts for DSL calling ifconfig/pppd (with pppoe at
first). The scripts/config-files should still be somewhere on disk ;)

If in doubt, do as I do, write your own script containing the relevant
commands to get "your internet" up and running. Even if it'll just be
for future reference in case of trouble.

>(also from the ubuntu side)
>root@gnubu:~# ifconfig ppp0
>ppp0      Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol
>          inet addr:161.184.44.73  P-t-P:161.184.0.199  Mask:255.255.255.255
>          UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
                                                       ^^^^

That MTU is IIRC too big for PPP. Change that to 1492 or less.

>          RX packets:5867 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>          TX packets:6439 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>          collisions:0 txqueuelen:3
>          RX bytes:1694892 (1.6 MB)  TX bytes:746705 (746.7 KB)

That looks like an established connection (despite the MTU) to the
gateway, as well as you said there a dns got assigned.

-dnh

[1] not enough time to tweak two systems on my main box

-- 
Me? No, why me? She's much more interesting. An enigma wrapped up in a
riddle with a tail in the middle.        -- Harper about Trance Gemini
                                        -- Andromeda 1x14 - Harper 2.0

Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 22:44:33 -0600, Maxim Wexler wrote:

> route -n shows nothing except ppp0
> (this is from ubuntu, but it was the same for gentoo when it was
> working) root@gnubu:~# route -n
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use
> Iface 0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         U     0
> 0        0 ppp0 161.184.0.199   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.255 UH
> 0      0        0 ppp0

Why show us what it was when it worked? What does route -n show from
your broken Gentoo now?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Shotgun wedding: A case of wife or death.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[Maxim Wexler]

> Why show us what it was when it worked? What does route -n show from
> your broken Gentoo now?
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick

Good question. Heading over there now. So if I can't get it working
there's gonna have to be some awkward shuttling back and forth.

Re: [gentoo-user] Goodbye to gentoo?

[Bruce Hill, Jr.]

On March 18, 2012 at 8:36 PM Maxim Wexler <maxim.wexler@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Hope somebody can see a way out.
>
> MW
>

I'd probably swap my computer shop and all it's latest-and-greatest to live
where you are, and leave all the computers, 'smart' phones, etc. "in town".
Just me, the wife, the daughter, horses, chickens ... you get the picture.
--
Happy Penguin Computers    >`)
126 Fenco Drive            ( \
Tupelo, MS 38801            ^^
662-269-2706; 662-491-8613
support at happypenguincomputers dot com
http://www.happypenguincomputers.com