From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1S9OjO-0003nw-CH for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 22:37:42 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 82A6DE0BB5; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 22:37:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-f181.google.com (mail-wi0-f181.google.com [209.85.212.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5982CE08BD for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 22:36:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhr17 with SMTP id hr17so2747680wib.10 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 15:36:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sxhJPVKNiEWz2uSFUyg19ZKuxy/tcqQK1oV85KNatuE=; b=eqf6ZIPwxJ04E9Ts3gDIYPqXTiVXsH2rj0Vnl0GYb/krsiuYpE54NfkDddUa106sr9 pkvhMTvv53OyWP7hkYzgX2xNRgAhYPVdt3SgbolkhKMo+mg0KNW+ucL7foGJdyKcwkT5 9h5BXDStNNpM60N4a49SXFTOsN+76zHLJH1XdB0rFPfXwsvRkSs8a22yhZOM2Iqg7JUf Y6LvU05AIrs8AU3lXuoSu99feV/sxHUd5PAYcl43n9v5zKYll0zSe/UlTzXBcxAaqfrt Kdi/gPm8Hvkje7Rrw22+yXkwUS7/NyN3nU+isjVX7HopzNrD88A5yWVU4miFMmdZsq0g Wmzg== Received: by 10.180.14.230 with SMTP id s6mr14947174wic.2.1332110181557; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 15:36:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from khamul.example.com (196-215-69-205.dynamic.isadsl.co.za. [196.215.69.205]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k6sm20580212wie.9.2012.03.18.15.36.19 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 18 Mar 2012 15:36:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 00:35:26 +0200 From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ] Message-ID: <20120319003526.5cb093c3@khamul.example.com> In-Reply-To: <20120318222337.GA11848@waltdnes.org> References: <709768995.843751.1331957483491.JavaMail.open-xchange@email.1and1.com> <20120317115300.GB3615@acm.acm> <20120318151502.36891b0a@khamul.example.com> <20120318222337.GA11848@waltdnes.org> Organization: Internet Solutions X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.10 (GTK+ 2.24.10; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 82d894c1-4d5c-4607-9f64-adecaa944efc X-Archives-Hash: 682e97eac10c6fcba3e13743b975c24e On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 18:23:37 -0400 "Walter Dnes" wrote: > On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 03:15:02PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote > > > Here's what I want: > > > > When the machine starts, I want services X, Y and Z to run. The > > software figures out what order they must start in and how the deps > > work. Clean, neat, easy. > > systemd is like Captain Picard of STTNG (Start Trek The Next > Generation) always saying "make it so". *HOW DO YOU "MAKE IT SO"? > That intelligence has to be somewhere. So what alternative do you > propose? A bash or ash script is more guaranteed to run than a > binary. Shoving all that "intelligence" into the service itself, > means that the service has to start up in order to determine whether > it's safe for the service to start up. What's wrong with this > picture? The intelligence goes in the init system's config file for that service of course. I know I didn't clearly say so, but that's where it goes. The information isn't complicated, you need some BEFORE and AFTER type settings and various other bits and pieces (pid files etc). For services that don't behave nicely when stopped and started in "regular ways", supply start/stop/restart/reload functions in the same file that override the defaults. In principle it mirrors exactly how portage works with ebuilds. > And if systemd is so great, here's my supersystemd > > #!/bin/bash > ... > ... > /etc/init.d/net.lo start > /etc/init.d/net.eth0 start > /etc/init.d/net.sshd start > etc, etc, etc No no, you misunderstand me. I'm not saying necessarily that systemd is great. I'm saying that sysvinit sucks big-time and we've needed something better for 15 years. Systemd's design seems to fit that bill nicely (whether it does it in practice remains to be seen) -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com