[gentoo-user] portage updates

[gentoo-user] portage updates

[Alan McKinnon]

Historically, when an update to portage came available, portage would
put it at the head of the list, build it first, then re-run emerge
world command.

I've seen lately that this no longer happens, portage updates are any
old place in the list just like all other packages.

I'm wondering why this change happened, or if I somehow unknowingly set
an option to disable the old behaviour )I'd liek it back).


-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:16:01 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> Historically, when an update to portage came available, portage would
> put it at the head of the list, build it first, then re-run emerge
> world command.
> 
> I've seen lately that this no longer happens, portage updates are any
> old place in the list just like all other packages.
> 
> I'm wondering why this change happened, or if I somehow unknowingly set
> an option to disable the old behaviour )I'd liek it back).

It's not just you, although it doesn't appear to be that random.
Generally the portage update comes at or near the end of the list here.

At least you get the rest of the world update done before a broken new
portage renders it unusable :-/


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers
believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet."

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Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 11:24:17 +0000
Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:16:01 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> > Historically, when an update to portage came available, portage
> > would put it at the head of the list, build it first, then re-run
> > emerge world command.
> > 
> > I've seen lately that this no longer happens, portage updates are
> > any old place in the list just like all other packages.
> > 
> > I'm wondering why this change happened, or if I somehow unknowingly
> > set an option to disable the old behaviour )I'd liek it back).
> 
> It's not just you, although it doesn't appear to be that random.
> Generally the portage update comes at or near the end of the list
> here.
> 
> At least you get the rest of the world update done before a broken new
> portage renders it unusable :-/

:-)

I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides with some
update to the tree <pedantic old fart mode ON>

I'm not worried about broken portage commits, I have
FEATURES="buildsyspkg" enabled so as long as I have a working tar I'm
good to go with any fix.


-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Willie WY Wong]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 01:48:59PM +0200, Penguin Lover Alan McKinnon squawked:
> I'm not worried about broken portage commits, I have
> FEATURES="buildsyspkg" enabled so as long as I have a working tar I'm
> good to go with any fix.

Wait... isn't portage itself no longer in the system set? 

W
-- 
Data aequatione quotcunque fluentes quantitae involvente fluxiones invenire 
         et vice versa   ~~~  I. Newton

Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 15:07:46 +0100
Willie WY Wong <wongwwy@member.ams.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 01:48:59PM +0200, Penguin Lover Alan McKinnon
> squawked:
> > I'm not worried about broken portage commits, I have
> > FEATURES="buildsyspkg" enabled so as long as I have a working tar
> > I'm good to go with any fix.
> 
> Wait... isn't portage itself no longer in the system set? 
> 
> W

I believe you are right, portage is now just a package manager that
satisfies virtual/package-manager 

-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Peter Humphrey]

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On Thursday 23 February 2012 11:48:59 Alan McKinnon wrote:

> I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides with some
> update to the tree <pedantic old fart mode ON>

What does "co-coincides" mean? I know that various versions of English exist 
out there, but this one has me foxed.

-- 
Rgds
Peter		Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23

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Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Alan McKinnon]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:36:00 +0000
Peter Humphrey <peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:

> On Thursday 23 February 2012 11:48:59 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> > I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides with
> > some update to the tree <pedantic old fart mode ON>
> 
> What does "co-coincides" mean? I know that various versions of
> English exist out there, but this one has me foxed.
> 

That would be because it's a mistake :-)

coincides

-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Willie WY Wong]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 01:36:00AM +0000, Penguin Lover Peter Humphrey squawked:
> On Thursday 23 February 2012 11:48:59 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> > I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides with some
> > update to the tree <pedantic old fart mode ON>
> 
> What does "co-coincides" mean? I know that various versions of English exist 
> out there, but this one has me foxed.

When Alan puts on his pedantic old fart hat, sometimes he gets so
excited that he stutters a little bit. 

:)

W
-- 
Data aequatione quotcunque fluentes quantitae involvente fluxiones invenire 
         et vice versa   ~~~  I. Newton

Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:36:00 +0000, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides with
> > some update to the tree <pedantic old fart mode ON>  
> 
> What does "co-coincides" mean?

It's when two coincidences are mutually coincident.

That or something involving a hot bedtime drink :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The law of Probability Dispersal decrees that whatever it is that hits
the fan will not be evenly distributed.

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Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Pandu Poluan]

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On Feb 24, 2012 4:08 PM, "Neil Bothwick" <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:36:00 +0000, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>
> > > I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides with
> > > some update to the tree <pedantic old fart mode ON>
> >
> > What does "co-coincides" mean?
>
> It's when two coincidences are mutually coincident.
>
> That or something involving a hot bedtime drink :)
>

More likely one nightcap too many ;-)

(Gosh, I love this list because all the friendly meta ribbings)

Rgds,

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Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Alan McKinnon]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 17:27:52 +0700
Pandu Poluan <pandu@poluan.info> wrote:

> On Feb 24, 2012 4:08 PM, "Neil Bothwick" <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 01:36:00 +0000, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> >
> > > > I prefer to update portage first, just in case it co-coincides
> > > > with some update to the tree <pedantic old fart mode ON>
> > >
> > > What does "co-coincides" mean?
> >
> > It's when two coincidences are mutually coincident.
> >
> > That or something involving a hot bedtime drink :)
> >
> 
> More likely one nightcap too many ;-)

My doctor's been telling me for years that a gallon of coffee at 11pm
is really not the way to go. I always ignored her. Now I'm not so
sure...


-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Mike Gilbert]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:16 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Historically, when an update to portage came available, portage would
> put it at the head of the list, build it first, then re-run emerge
> world command.
>
> I've seen lately that this no longer happens, portage updates are any
> old place in the list just like all other packages.
>
> I'm wondering why this change happened, or if I somehow unknowingly set
> an option to disable the old behaviour )I'd liek it back).
>

Relevent commits:

http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=d3f704a425a50b5cfa997a25866929b30f1b7d0f
http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=458ce208ed25f2d17666926585e14da6166eb9d7

Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Peter Humphrey]

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On Monday 27 February 2012 21:05:24 Mike Gilbert wrote:

> Relevent commits:
> 
> http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=d3f7
> 04a425a50b5cfa997a25866929b30f1b7d0f
> http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=458
> ce208ed25f2d17666926585e14da6166eb9d7

Helpful - thanks.

Now can anyone tell me why clicking the first link in this e-mail opened it 
in Konqueror and the second in Firefox? I can't see any material difference 
between the two links.

-- 
Rgds
Peter		Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23

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Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Alex Schuster]

Peter Humphrey writes:

> Now can anyone tell me why clicking the first link in this e-mail
> opened it in Konqueror and the second in Firefox? 

Because KDE is so weird all over the place.

> I can't see any material difference between the two links.

Yes, there is none.

This doesn't happen here, but I'm using the new KMail.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Peter Humphrey]

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On Tuesday 28 February 2012 11:23:40 Alex Schuster wrote:
> Peter Humphrey writes:
> > Now can anyone tell me why clicking the first link in this e-mail
> > opened it in Konqueror and the second in Firefox?
> 
> Because KDE is so weird all over the place.

Well I just hope the team get it sorted out soon. I can't stand any of the 
Gnomes and the lighter desktops are just too thin on features.

> > I can't see any material difference between the two links.
> 
> Yes, there is none.
> 
> This doesn't happen here, but I'm using the new KMail.

I'm not going to that version until it works. It was only careful backing up 
that avoided losing half my e-mails. As it was, the basic functions of an e-
mail client were almost completely absent.

-- 
Rgds
Peter		Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23

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Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Alex Schuster]

Peter Humphrey writes:

> On Tuesday 28 February 2012 11:23:40 Alex Schuster wrote:
> > Peter Humphrey writes:
> > > Now can anyone tell me why clicking the first link in this e-mail
> > > opened it in Konqueror and the second in Firefox?
> > 
> > Because KDE is so weird all over the place.
> 
> Well I just hope the team get it sorted out soon.

I'm waiting since KDE 4.2. And I believe it will never happen. Yes,
things are getting better, and more things get fixed than break by
updates. But still KDE4 has so many bugs and annoyances, nearly every day
some weird things happen.

> I can't stand any of
> the Gnomes and the lighter desktops are just too thin on features.

Me too. I _like_ KDE. If only things were more stable. I do not need any
new features, I'd prefer the existing ones to work as they should.
Look at Dolphin for example, the file manager. I expect such a thing to
just work. But until 4.8 it didn't, it had some bugs that made it nearly
unusable for me. Like the effect that after dragging files to a 2nd
panel, Dolphin acted as if the mouse button was pressed, marking all
files, and scrolling till the end when the mouse leaves the Dolphin
window. Believe me, this is very annoying when copying/moving many files
around. And don't press del to delete the files you copied, you might
put all files in that directory to the trash.
The scrolling behaviour was also annoying, I drag a file to the
destination folder, which is near the top, and just when I release, the
folder started to scroll away and the file is moved into another folder.
Both bugs seem to be fixed in 4.8, and now Dolphin is better than the
Windows XP explorer, finally.
Of course, there was another bug introduced, couldn't reproduce it yet,
and it does not happen often. All stuff scrolls down to the bottom then,
I cannot scroll up, but with wild clicking on all mouse buttons it
finally stops.

Another example of these weird problems, just because it happened today:
I copied 100 MB via FTP using Dolphin. Then I got an error dialog, there
was a problem writing the file. Dolphin did not update the content, so I
could not see how far the upload went. After some F5 pressing, it said
"internal error, please send a detailed bug report".
Seems there was a problem renaming the file after download, I had to
remove the '.part' suffix manually.

No big deal, but such problems happen all over the time when I use KDE
applications. Some errors are reproduceable, and I can avoid them, but
many things just happen once.

If you are an experienced user, you can live with that - as I said, I
still like KDE, and its great features. But for the inexperienced user
like my mom KDE is totally unusable, as very basic features often do not
work. Like, logging out. I put Gnome on her notebook, so I do not have to
help her every day when yet another problem arises.

> > > I can't see any material difference between the two links.
> > 
> > Yes, there is none.
> > 
> > This doesn't happen here, but I'm using the new KMail.
> 
> I'm not going to that version until it works. It was only careful
> backing up that avoided losing half my e-mails. As it was, the basic
> functions of an e- mail client were almost completely absent.

I'm using Claws mainly, and KMail2 for stuff like encryption or local
mail folders that I did not (yet?) spend the time to set up with Claws. I
migrated KDEPIM stuff for three times, and it never worked well, and
always took me hours at least to get a working setup. This is just
unbelieveable. And I can be happy, because I did not lose any mails -
probably because I use IMAP only.

And this is so sad. Generally, I like the idea of Akonadi. And I see
some advantages - for example, Claws does not respond while it is checking
for new mails, and it seems to do this so very often just when I want to
see a new mail. KDE does this in the background. But there are far too
many problems with this. So many people were bitten by this. And email is
such an important issue. BTW, since 4.8, at every login I get messages
that some calendar stuff did not get configured, migrated or whatever.
Good thing I don't use it much, so I just do not care. But would I really
entrust my important personal data to KDEPIM applications? Probably not.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Mick]

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On Wednesday 29 Feb 2012 16:27:50 Alex Schuster wrote:
> Peter Humphrey writes:
> > On Tuesday 28 February 2012 11:23:40 Alex Schuster wrote:
> > > Peter Humphrey writes:
> > > > Now can anyone tell me why clicking the first link in this e-mail
> > > > opened it in Konqueror and the second in Firefox?
> > > 
> > > Because KDE is so weird all over the place.
> > 
> > Well I just hope the team get it sorted out soon.
> 
> I'm waiting since KDE 4.2. And I believe it will never happen. Yes,
> things are getting better, and more things get fixed than break by
> updates. But still KDE4 has so many bugs and annoyances, nearly every day
> some weird things happen.
> 
> > I can't stand any of
> > the Gnomes and the lighter desktops are just too thin on features.
> 
> Me too. I _like_ KDE. If only things were more stable. I do not need any
> new features, I'd prefer the existing ones to work as they should.
> Look at Dolphin for example, the file manager. I expect such a thing to
> just work. But until 4.8 it didn't, it had some bugs that made it nearly
> unusable for me. Like the effect that after dragging files to a 2nd
> panel, Dolphin acted as if the mouse button was pressed, marking all
> files, and scrolling till the end when the mouse leaves the Dolphin
> window. Believe me, this is very annoying when copying/moving many files
> around. And don't press del to delete the files you copied, you might
> put all files in that directory to the trash.
> The scrolling behaviour was also annoying, I drag a file to the
> destination folder, which is near the top, and just when I release, the
> folder started to scroll away and the file is moved into another folder.
> Both bugs seem to be fixed in 4.8, and now Dolphin is better than the
> Windows XP explorer, finally.
> Of course, there was another bug introduced, couldn't reproduce it yet,
> and it does not happen often. All stuff scrolls down to the bottom then,
> I cannot scroll up, but with wild clicking on all mouse buttons it
> finally stops.
> 
> Another example of these weird problems, just because it happened today:
> I copied 100 MB via FTP using Dolphin. Then I got an error dialog, there
> was a problem writing the file. Dolphin did not update the content, so I
> could not see how far the upload went. After some F5 pressing, it said
> "internal error, please send a detailed bug report".
> Seems there was a problem renaming the file after download, I had to
> remove the '.part' suffix manually.
> 
> No big deal, but such problems happen all over the time when I use KDE
> applications. Some errors are reproduceable, and I can avoid them, but
> many things just happen once.
> 
> If you are an experienced user, you can live with that - as I said, I
> still like KDE, and its great features. But for the inexperienced user
> like my mom KDE is totally unusable, as very basic features often do not
> work. Like, logging out. I put Gnome on her notebook, so I do not have to
> help her every day when yet another problem arises.
> 
> > > > I can't see any material difference between the two links.
> > > 
> > > Yes, there is none.
> > > 
> > > This doesn't happen here, but I'm using the new KMail.
> > 
> > I'm not going to that version until it works. It was only careful
> > backing up that avoided losing half my e-mails. As it was, the basic
> > functions of an e- mail client were almost completely absent.
> 
> I'm using Claws mainly, and KMail2 for stuff like encryption or local
> mail folders that I did not (yet?) spend the time to set up with Claws. I
> migrated KDEPIM stuff for three times, and it never worked well, and
> always took me hours at least to get a working setup. This is just
> unbelieveable. And I can be happy, because I did not lose any mails -
> probably because I use IMAP only.
> 
> And this is so sad. Generally, I like the idea of Akonadi. And I see
> some advantages - for example, Claws does not respond while it is checking
> for new mails, and it seems to do this so very often just when I want to
> see a new mail. KDE does this in the background. But there are far too
> many problems with this. So many people were bitten by this. And email is
> such an important issue. BTW, since 4.8, at every login I get messages
> that some calendar stuff did not get configured, migrated or whatever.
> Good thing I don't use it much, so I just do not care. But would I really
> entrust my important personal data to KDEPIM applications? Probably not.
> 
> 	Wonko

I could echo most of what you raised here and add to it (because kmail will 
just not work for me without major failures on POP3 & IMAP4 and korganizer is 
seriously broken when trying to import and merge calendars) - but I won't.

What I don't understand is why couldn't we stay with 4.2 or which ever version 
was broadly working and keep all these dev wet-dreams for testing purposes 
only.  If it takes them 3 years to arrive at a stable (read = functioning) 
product then we can start then and only then bringing it sloooowly in the 
stable tree.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[John]

  Wouldn't this particular topic be best answered by the dev's of said file systems and 
what, if any, fragmentation etc, could and can and will happen with the different 
arguments ie -m 0, etc.? All it is now between everyone discussing this here in a Gentoo 
list is more or less conjecture, at least what I've read from most posts. Wouldn't the 
people who make up, design and take care of the file systems in discussion be the best 
ones to simply ask?

  Not meaning to 'end' the discussion, just curious as to why no one has gone to those who 
would know best and brought it up and seeked out the answer(s) from them instead of people 
who only can guesstimate here. So don't get mad, get glad, heh heh.

Re: [gentoo-user] portage updates

[Dale]

John wrote:
> 
>   Wouldn't this particular topic be best answered by the dev's of said file systems and 
> what, if any, fragmentation etc, could and can and will happen with the different 
> arguments ie -m 0, etc.? All it is now between everyone discussing this here in a Gentoo 
> list is more or less conjecture, at least what I've read from most posts. Wouldn't the 
> people who make up, design and take care of the file systems in discussion be the best 
> ones to simply ask?
> 
>   Not meaning to 'end' the discussion, just curious as to why no one has gone to those who 
> would know best and brought it up and seeked out the answer(s) from them instead of people 
> who only can guesstimate here. So don't get mad, get glad, heh heh.
> 
> 


I think one reason may be this, there are people on this list that have
more experience than a lot of devs.  By that, I mean real life
experience.  Sometimes what devs expect doesn't actually happen in real
life situations.  For example, when testing a file system and how it
frags, large files, small files or medium size files?  Are these files
changing or once saved they never change?

So, sometimes asking a person who actually uses something can have
better advice than the person that created it.

Just saying.

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output?  Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"