[gentoo-user] amarok fade down

[gentoo-user] amarok fade down

[Stephane Guedon]

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Hi all

For a long time, my amarok doesn't fade down anymore each time I use vlc as 
phonon backend. As xine is said to be deprecated, I should switch.

Does anyone of you use vlc as a phonon-backend and succeed in amarok fade down 
?

If no, what else to do ?

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[gentoo-user] Re: amarok fade down

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/04/2012 05:04 PM, Stephane Guedon wrote:
> Hi all
>
> For a long time, my amarok doesn't fade down anymore each time I use vlc as
> phonon backend. As xine is said to be deprecated, I should switch.
>
> Does anyone of you use vlc as a phonon-backend and succeed in amarok fade down
> ?
>
> If no, what else to do ?

The VLC backend is still quite buggy.  Fades don't work and it's very 
slow when seeking.  Automatically playing the next song in the list is 
also broken.

Try the GStreamer backend instead.  It's also not as good as the Xine 
backend, but still somewhat better than the VLC one.  I'm astounded 
though as to why KDE drops the best backend and keeps two broken ones. 
Really stupid decisions going on lately in KDE camp.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: amarok fade down

[Stephane Guedon]

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Le samedi 4 février 2012 17:52:17, Nikos Chantziaras a écrit :
> On 02/04/2012 05:04 PM, Stephane Guedon wrote:
> > Hi all
> > 
> > For a long time, my amarok doesn't fade down anymore each time I use vlc
> > as phonon backend. As xine is said to be deprecated, I should switch.
> > 
> > Does anyone of you use vlc as a phonon-backend and succeed in amarok fade
> > down ?
> > 
> > If no, what else to do ?
> 
> The VLC backend is still quite buggy.  Fades don't work and it's very
> slow when seeking.  Automatically playing the next song in the list is
> also broken.
> 
> Try the GStreamer backend instead.  It's also not as good as the Xine
> backend, but still somewhat better than the VLC one.  I'm astounded
> though as to why KDE drops the best backend and keeps two broken ones.
> Really stupid decisions going on lately in KDE camp.

The bad thing is that it install many other piece of software !

Gstreamer is from gnome ! Why using it rather than xine which is from kde ? 
Really strange decision !

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: amarok fade down

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Stephane Guedon <stephane@22decembre.eu> wrote:
> Le samedi 4 février 2012 17:52:17, Nikos Chantziaras a écrit :
>> On 02/04/2012 05:04 PM, Stephane Guedon wrote:
>> > Hi all
>> >
>> > For a long time, my amarok doesn't fade down anymore each time I use vlc
>> > as phonon backend. As xine is said to be deprecated, I should switch.
>> >
>> > Does anyone of you use vlc as a phonon-backend and succeed in amarok fade
>> > down ?
>> >
>> > If no, what else to do ?
>>
>> The VLC backend is still quite buggy.  Fades don't work and it's very
>> slow when seeking.  Automatically playing the next song in the list is
>> also broken.
>>
>> Try the GStreamer backend instead.  It's also not as good as the Xine
>> backend, but still somewhat better than the VLC one.  I'm astounded
>> though as to why KDE drops the best backend and keeps two broken ones.
>> Really stupid decisions going on lately in KDE camp.
>
> The bad thing is that it install many other piece of software !
>
> Gstreamer is from gnome !

GStreamer is not "from" GNOME, they are an independent project, hosted
at freedesktop.org. GStreamer uses glib, which arguably is originally
from GNOME, but everything uses glib nowadays (including KDE, check
the dependencies for systemsettings).

> Why using it rather than xine which is from kde ?

Xine is not from KDE. Xine existed before, if I remember correctly,
and doesn't use any KDE, Qt (nor GNOME, GTK+ and glib for that matter)
libraries.

> Really strange decision !

Actually no; the GStreamer plugin architecture is really nice, and
nowadays any GST based player can reproduce basically anything under
the sun. VLC is not as nice (IMHO), but last time I checked it worked
almost as good as GStreamer.

Xine was OK ten years ago; it was what I used to watch DVD's. Back
then it was the only DVD player able to easily change subtitles
(important to me, since back then I didn't understand spoken English).
Then it was split into xine-ui and xine-lib, and then (if again I
remember correctly), xine-lib was given a plugin mechanism. In other
words, it wasn't designed; it evolved into the current form which can
use plugins, and which is the only sane way to handle all the audio
and video formats that come and go all the time.

In short, both GStreamer and VLC can do anything that Xine do, and
they probably do it better. If something is not working properly, it
probably is a problem with the integration with KDE (via phonon). This
should be fixed by them in a short time.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

[gentoo-user] Re: amarok fade down

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/05/2012 06:02 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> In short, both GStreamer and VLC can do anything that Xine do, and
> they probably do it better. If something is not working properly, it
> probably is a problem with the integration with KDE (via phonon). This
> should be fixed by them in a short time.

Stuff doesn't get fixed. Instead, new bugs keep piling up. KDE is going 
down the drain. If the trend continues, KDE 4.9 will be of the same 
stability as 4.0.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: amarok fade down

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:
> On 02/05/2012 06:02 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>
>> In short, both GStreamer and VLC can do anything that Xine do, and
>> they probably do it better. If something is not working properly, it
>> probably is a problem with the integration with KDE (via phonon). This
>> should be fixed by them in a short time.
>
>
> Stuff doesn't get fixed. Instead, new bugs keep piling up. KDE is going down
> the drain. If the trend continues, KDE 4.9 will be of the same stability as
> 4.0.

When Totem (the GNOME media player) changed its backend from Xine to
GStreamer (way back in 2004 or 2005), it took a while to fix all the
regressions. But eventually it got really, really nice. And back then
GStreamer was not as nice as it is now. Have a little faith in the
devs and do your part (fill bugs, use the betas, follow upstream
closely), and in the end everything sorta kinda maybe will work out.

Sixteen years using Linux as my exclusive OS has taught me that's the
only sane way to see things. The alternative is to get angry a lot and
grow ulcers and maybe cancer.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: amarok fade down

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 11:18:41 -0600
Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de>
> wrote:
> > On 02/05/2012 06:02 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> >>
> >> In short, both GStreamer and VLC can do anything that Xine do, and
> >> they probably do it better. If something is not working properly,
> >> it probably is a problem with the integration with KDE (via
> >> phonon). This should be fixed by them in a short time.
> >
> >
> > Stuff doesn't get fixed. Instead, new bugs keep piling up. KDE is
> > going down the drain. If the trend continues, KDE 4.9 will be of
> > the same stability as 4.0.
> 
> When Totem (the GNOME media player) changed its backend from Xine to
> GStreamer (way back in 2004 or 2005), it took a while to fix all the
> regressions. 

Remember the first release of Ubuntu (warty)? Remember how it shipped
with Totem + Gstreamer? Remember the gigantic amount of flak
Shuttleworth got from the "oh noes! you change stuff!" crowd?

It looks like he's now been vindicated for several years already, as
gstreamer does work nicely. True, his reasons for using it then were
licensing reasons, not so much technical ones, but it's still nice to
see projects start off with somewhat patchy support for "stuff" and
gradually improve to supporting almost everything.


> But eventually it got really, really nice. And back then
> GStreamer was not as nice as it is now. Have a little faith in the
> devs and do your part (fill bugs, use the betas, follow upstream
> closely), and in the end everything sorta kinda maybe will work out.
> 
> Sixteen years using Linux as my exclusive OS has taught me that's the
> only sane way to see things. The alternative is to get angry a lot and
> grow ulcers and maybe cancer.
> 
> Regards.



-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: amarok fade down

[James Broadhead]

On 5 February 2012 17:01, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:
> On 02/05/2012 06:02 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>
>> In short, both GStreamer and VLC can do anything that Xine do, and
>> they probably do it better. If something is not working properly, it
>> probably is a problem with the integration with KDE (via phonon). This
>> should be fixed by them in a short time.
>
>
> Stuff doesn't get fixed. Instead, new bugs keep piling up. KDE is going down
> the drain. If the trend continues, KDE 4.9 will be of the same stability as
> 4.0.

I'm actually a little surprised that there isn't a fork of KDE 3.5
going somewhere ...

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: amarok fade down

[James Broadhead]

On 5 February 2012 17:19, James Broadhead <jamesbroadhead@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5 February 2012 17:01, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:
>> On 02/05/2012 06:02 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>>>
>>> In short, both GStreamer and VLC can do anything that Xine do, and
>>> they probably do it better. If something is not working properly, it
>>> probably is a problem with the integration with KDE (via phonon). This
>>> should be fixed by them in a short time.
>>
>>
>> Stuff doesn't get fixed. Instead, new bugs keep piling up. KDE is going down
>> the drain. If the trend continues, KDE 4.9 will be of the same stability as
>> 4.0.
>
> I'm actually a little surprised that there isn't a fork of KDE 3.5
> going somewhere ...

Unduly, it turns out!
http://www.trinitydesktop.org/

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: amarok fade down

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 10:02:19 -0600
Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Really strange decision !  
> 
> Actually no; the GStreamer plugin architecture is really nice, and
> nowadays any GST based player can reproduce basically anything under
> the sun. VLC is not as nice (IMHO), but last time I checked it worked
> almost as good as GStreamer.
> 
> Xine was OK ten years ago; it was what I used to watch DVD's. Back
> then it was the only DVD player able to easily change subtitles
> (important to me, since back then I didn't understand spoken English).
> Then it was split into xine-ui and xine-lib, and then (if again I
> remember correctly), xine-lib was given a plugin mechanism. In other
> words, it wasn't designed; it evolved into the current form which can
> use plugins, and which is the only sane way to handle all the audio
> and video formats that come and go all the time.
> 
> In short, both GStreamer and VLC can do anything that Xine do, and
> they probably do it better. If something is not working properly, it
> probably is a problem with the integration with KDE (via phonon). This
> should be fixed by them in a short time.

You are quite correct. It is not xine itself that is moribund, it is
the phonon integration with xine that has gone nowhere for a long
while. And so that aspect of phonon has been dropped.

phonon+xine wasn't dropped in favour of phonon+gstreamer. It's more a
case of the number of phonon devs that feel like working on gstreamer
is quite a lot (relatively) but the number of phonon devs working on
xine is rather few (I believe it is actually zero), so it died.

-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com