[gentoo-user] Re: [gentoo-dev] Dropping localepurge

[gentoo-user] Re: [gentoo-dev] Dropping localepurge

[Philip Webb]

120129 Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Sunday 29 January 2012 00:01:50 Philip Webb wrote:
>> Below is the output from 'localepurge' after this week's system update.
>> Please don't drop it till 'should' does = 'does'.
> the vast majority of that output comes from like 3 or 4 packages.

All of it comes from  6  packages which I recently installed/updated :
 evince gdk-pix-buf rekonq xkeyboard-config gnome-doc-utils sane-backends
The total rubbish cleaned out for these  6  was  > 9 MB .
The last  3  belong to major projects -- X Gnome Sane -- ,
which suggests that other pkgs they manage may suffer the same defect.

> file bugs if you want things to actually get fixed.

No, that's not the way it should be handled.
Filing bugs --  6  of them in this case -- is no guarantee of attention even,
let alone action to fix the problem.  Moreover, if it's fixable by Gentoo,
the dev involved should do it as a matter of course without needing a bug.

There is a perfectly effective script which cleans up the mess
& the only problem with it seems to be temporary lack of a maintainer,
who is not essential anyway if there's nothing which needs fixing
& should not be difficult to replace with a simple request for a volunteer.

Please leave 'localepurge' where it is.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

[gentoo-user] Re: [gentoo-dev] Dropping localepurge

[Philip Webb]

120130 Mart Raudsepp wrote:
> Do you even have LINGUAS set in /etc/make.conf or something?
> Because at least evince, gdk-pixbuf, xkeyboard-config and
> gnome-doc-utils DO honor LINGUAS.
> 
> All GNOME packages that use intltool (that is pretty much everything
> except a few low-level libraries) honor LINGUAS much more than
> localepurge would ever be able clean afterwards. For example, .desktop
> files only have translation lines for languages listed in LINGUAS. Same
> for gconf and dconf schemas. Also all end-user documentation
> in /usr/share/gnome/help/appname/lang_code/
> 
> Per above, we would close at least 4 of those bugs as INVALID or at
> least OBSOLETE (if some older version had it wrong).
> At least in GNOME we feel quite strong about things properly honoring
> LINGUAS per old standard GNU conventions. This means installing ALL
> translations if LINGUAS is unset, and none if LINGUAS is set to an empty
> string.
> 
> Above said, I also do find a use on some systems for localepurge, to
> catch the packages that don't honor it.
> Though for embedded deployments I might as well not include the
> non-interesting language directories in the image.

Thanks for the useful & polite response.  I will look into LINGUAS.
How to set it is not mentioned in  make.conf.example  or in  man make.conf :
where is it documented ?

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

[gentoo-user] Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Dropping localepurge

[Philip Webb]

120130 Mart Raudsepp wrote:
> On E, 2012-01-30 at 06:56 -0500, Philip Webb wrote:
>> Thanks for the useful & polite response.  I will look into LINGUAS.
>> How to set it is not mentioned in  make.conf.example  or in  man make.conf :
>> where is it documented ?
>  http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/guide-localization.xml#doc_chap3
> I presume you only have things set in /etc/locale.nopurge
> and wrongly expect packages to honor it.
> Specific packages do not and can not look at that file,
> as it's localepurge specific
> and upstream projects shouldn't have any knowledge of it.
> LINGUAS is the standard environment variable for this
> with gettext based systems, and intltool honors it as well.
> I remember a longer description of it in some info file,
> but right now only found
>  http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/Installers.html
> Bugs are hopefully appreciated by maintainers for packages
> that don't honor that environment variable set via /etc/make.conf.

I added a line 'LINGUAS="en"' to  make.conf  & rebooted,
emerged the  6  pkgs I listed in a previous msg & ran 'localepurge' again.
This time, only 'rekonq' & 'sane-backends' offended.

> If an upstream doesn't honor it, they are probably just not using
> the standard autoconf/automake glue for it correctly
> or use a different build system support for it wrongly
> or the build system is suboptimal on this.

I'm surprised at 'sane-backends', which is a longstanding app,
but 'rekonq' is a recent invention & may need informing re the issue.

> Some Gentoo packages also have a LINGUAS USE_EXPAND,
> so show up in emerge --verbose --ask world and similar outputs.
> This is typically used when extra downloads are necessary for the languages
> (e.g firefox or libreoffice per-language packs)
> and often don't honor the "LINGUAS unset == all languages" convention.
> Packages that don't need any extra downloads or long building time
> do not expose this as USE_EXPAND USE flags and just silently work it out
> in their build system, and that's the most reasonable approach for us.

Yes, I've seen it in output for 'emerge -pv' for FF & LO.

> Hope this helps,

Yes, that's exactly the kind of response users need:
LINGUAS is some way down the doc you refer to & I assumed LANG was enough.

I also realised that as 'localepurge' is a script,
I can move it to  /usr/local/bin/ , if it does fall out of the tree.

I will file bugs for the  2  offending pkgs above
& leave the hard-working devs to get on with their other affairs.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca