From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Rhfa6-0005SY-36 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:57:30 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9D4A821C129; Mon, 2 Jan 2012 10:57:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-f181.google.com (mail-we0-f181.google.com [74.125.82.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C7921C07F for ; Mon, 2 Jan 2012 10:56:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by werm12 with SMTP id m12so9042649wer.40 for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 02:56:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=aZlf90iyMe1pE8GIsgvuEcsYnZrC09ApRZFTv6e9fJ4=; b=JmEWzKLWBayRONN85aa8UCDVJLfEfsstJz4wwJmpTNbWO9KtjhPsSpWTsa2jUcyVep OHpNs73cstd35dfWb85zI5VUwM1MI9chqJWMn09C/4suoanw2ZiZwn5C6RD573UMH7j+ 5ouinUDp+GEWIAfv/B9Fd9FMlb1KbLxcT3l+g= Received: by 10.216.138.224 with SMTP id a74mr3492698wej.16.1325501778788; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 02:56:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from rohan.example.com (196-215-2-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za. [196.215.2.107]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id eu3sm7424848wib.6.2012.01.02.02.56.16 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 02 Jan 2012 02:56:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 12:56:06 +0200 From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --update behavior Message-ID: <20120102125606.108b752b@rohan.example.com> In-Reply-To: <4F0184BB.5010307@gmail.com> References: <4F00D521.1030702@orlitzky.com> <4F00DA52.1060504@gmail.com> <20120102115809.5259d3cf@rohan.example.com> <4F0184BB.5010307@gmail.com> Organization: Internet Solutions X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.8 (GTK+ 2.24.4; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: c86a6759-c4a2-41fb-8161-8a0cf31c6d25 X-Archives-Hash: cccb14baf3b032e12099d1f496481e07 On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 04:19:39 -0600 Dale wrote: > Alan McKinnon wrote: > > The current behaviour is the correct and expected one - you told > > portage to emerge something and it did. Why else would you emerge > > something if you didn't intend it to become a permanent feature of > > the system and part of world? This has always been the definition > > of emerge - to make it permanent. If you want to emerge something > > and NOT have portage put it in world then you must use the -1 > > option. Remember that emerging something is supposed to be a > > permanent action that you (as root) intended to happen. If what you > > intend is something more unusual like a mere test or "just to see > > what would happen" then you must take additional steps (to make it > > clear that you are doing something out of the ordinary). It's the > > same logic as rm uses: the user told the computer to delete a file > > so the computer did what it was told by it's master and deleted the > > file. What else would you expect it to do? p.s. before I forget: > > Happy New Year :-) > > I didn't tell it to add it to the world file tho, I just told it to > update it hence the option --update. I update things all the time > but it doesn't mean I want them added to the world file. If I want > to emerge something and have it added to the world file, I leave the > -u option out of it, then it should be added because I requested it > to be emerged not updated. > > Example: > > emerge phonon > > That means I want it emerged on my system and should be added to the > world file. > > emerge -u phonon > > That means I want to update/upgrade phonon. I don't want it in my > world file, just updated. This is the way it worked before --oneshot > came along. It is not the way it is now but it was that way a good > while back. > > Happy New Year to you too. Mine are getting better. I lost my Dad > on New Years Day many years ago. It's not the same since. The current behaviour seems more logical to me. You also seem to have gotten used to the old way and can't see past it :-) When Zac needs to define when something does, he needs to keep the big picture in mind to get consistency. So what's the purpose of emerge? Well, read the DESCRIPTION in the man page: ===== DESCRIPTION emerge is the definitive command-line interface to the Portage system. It is primarily used for installing packages, and emerge can automatically handle any dependencies that the desired package has. emerge can also update the portage tree, making new and updated packages available. emerge gracefully handles updating installed packages to newer releases as well. It handles both source and binary packages, and it can be used to create binary packages for distribution. ===== Obviously it must maintain system and the world file to do this. That is the primary function, everything else is secondary. When emerge merges something to the live system, it puts everything listed on the command line into world; everything brought along automagically as a dep does not go into world. Any changes to that purpose must have a very good reason. Emergeing something puts it in world, we have established that. But this thing called an "update" does not imply that the packages are not to go in world - an update is just an update, not "merge this but also do something weird with world". Actually --update makes little sense with just individual packages, if they are not already installed they will be (which is exactly what you get by omitting --update). It does make a lot of sense when used with system, world, and sets though. So it seems to me Zac has removed a peculiar bahaviour and made it much more consistent: When you emerge packages explicitly by name, they go into world always. The only way to do it differently is to use -1 which tells portage to not put them in world. Makes sense to me. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com