From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1RheoO-0002VS-5j for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:08:12 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AC5C4E0019; Mon, 2 Jan 2012 10:07:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-f181.google.com (mail-wi0-f181.google.com [209.85.212.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A3F2E0495 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 2012 10:06:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhq2 with SMTP id hq2so9719751wib.40 for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 02:06:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lbJKj9WWX6YX+a8ajEvkYBbeUT7tVfwxeg31kKrWh/Q=; b=chWX/+h6cIyz3C1ItjsJ6zJfU3gjy71F9gpjfvhLHftXmTJjiI4Vi1efZL8KnCn+cK iaxBTiN9ESMpRXFM7TS+/UHZEHbsFYq1xbaTad/PR/1u2eYdAIlUCPFM/MC0Qf0YJ6uw eOjWPkRROoP2+TVv2y0NweXJiqEbECo5HySek= Received: by 10.180.19.138 with SMTP id f10mr132463913wie.3.1325498815376; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 02:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from rohan.example.com (196-215-2-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za. [196.215.2.107]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q34sm36011836wbm.15.2012.01.02.02.06.50 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 02 Jan 2012 02:06:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 12:06:39 +0200 From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --update behavior Message-ID: <20120102120639.19bc852b@rohan.example.com> In-Reply-To: <4F00F943.4000104@orlitzky.com> References: <4F00D521.1030702@orlitzky.com> <4F00DA99.8050502@orlitzky.com> <4F00DEC5.5090500@gmail.com> <4F00E741.6050002@orlitzky.com> <20120102000922.3253b70f@digimed.co.uk> <4F00F943.4000104@orlitzky.com> Organization: Internet Solutions X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.8 (GTK+ 2.24.4; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 6de60b1b-4d9b-4413-b0b4-67d9cda5e3b0 X-Archives-Hash: 34e4843ca2426475ee7949d673ca50be On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 19:24:35 -0500 Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 01/01/2012 07:09 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 18:07:45 -0500, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > > > >> Usually it's because a world update wants to do both trivial > >> version bumps and replace major software at the same time. I can't > >> take a server down for an hour in the middle of the day to update > >> Apache, but I can bump timezone-data, sure. > > > > Why would you need to take it down? All you need to do is restart > > Apache after the update. > > > > I have to test, like, 200 websites to make sure they still work. > Something /always/ breaks. > > Apache was just an example. PHP is the same way: functions get > removed, renamed, or just subtly changed. I can't replace Dovecot > with users logged in. I can't upgrade/restart postgresql while > clients are hitting it. If I'm working remotely, I don't want to > update openvpn, iptables, or even openssh. There's a long list of > packages that I just ain't gonna mess with during the day. You have a production machine delivering valuable services to multiple users. Therefore you must only update *anything* on it during planned maintenance slots. If paying customers are involved then preferably with a second redundant parallel machine to take over the load during that slot. You don't have much of an option about this in the real world, think of it as a constraint that you must simply deal with. Or think about it another way, if the machine was running RHEL, you wouldn't just blindly run yum update in the middle of the working day and expect it to all be just fine. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com