[gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Mark Knecht]

For archive purposes is there a simple way for me to make a
bit-for-bit copy retail DVDs I've purchased?

Assume that I've got the right sort of DVD drive, I guess something
capable of writing dual-layer DVDs.

Thanks,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Michael Mol]

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No; you'll have to decrypt, or do without the encrypted bits.

dvdbackup is probably the closest to what you want.

On Dec 16, 2011 11:09 AM, "Mark Knecht" <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:

> For archive purposes is there a simple way for me to make a
> bit-for-bit copy retail DVDs I've purchased?
>
> Assume that I've got the right sort of DVD drive, I guess something
> capable of writing dual-layer DVDs.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
> No; you'll have to decrypt, or do without the encrypted bits.
>
> dvdbackup is probably the closest to what you want.
>
> On Dec 16, 2011 11:09 AM, "Mark Knecht" <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> For archive purposes is there a simple way for me to make a
>> bit-for-bit copy retail DVDs I've purchased?
>>
>> Assume that I've got the right sort of DVD drive, I guess something
>> capable of writing dual-layer DVDs.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mark

Interesting. So even something that just copies blocks of data, like
dd, can't be used for that purpose?

I have no interest in tearing apart the DVD in any way. It was more
about the idea of a fire causing the loss of maybe $15K-$20K
investment over the years. I can rip all the CDs, keep the ripped
version here to watch on the computer, and store the DVDs elsewhere,
but that elimiates (generally) being able to watch special features
which my wife and kid enjoy.

Thanks for the info.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Joerg Schilling]

Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
> > No; you'll have to decrypt, or do without the encrypted bits.
> >
> > dvdbackup is probably the closest to what you want.
> >
> > On Dec 16, 2011 11:09 AM, "Mark Knecht" <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> For archive purposes is there a simple way for me to make a
> >> bit-for-bit copy retail DVDs I've purchased?
> >>
> >> Assume that I've got the right sort of DVD drive, I guess something
> >> capable of writing dual-layer DVDs.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Mark
>
> Interesting. So even something that just copies blocks of data, like
> dd, can't be used for that purpose?

Yo you see that you get the same answer as you received two days ago from the 
Cdrecord-support mailing list ;-)

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Michael Mol]

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>> No; you'll have to decrypt, or do without the encrypted bits.
>>
>> dvdbackup is probably the closest to what you want.
>>
>> On Dec 16, 2011 11:09 AM, "Mark Knecht" <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> For archive purposes is there a simple way for me to make a
>>> bit-for-bit copy retail DVDs I've purchased?
>>>
>>> Assume that I've got the right sort of DVD drive, I guess something
>>> capable of writing dual-layer DVDs.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mark
>
> Interesting. So even something that just copies blocks of data, like
> dd, can't be used for that purpose?
>
> I have no interest in tearing apart the DVD in any way. It was more
> about the idea of a fire causing the loss of maybe $15K-$20K
> investment over the years. I can rip all the CDs, keep the ripped
> version here to watch on the computer, and store the DVDs elsewhere,
> but that elimiates (generally) being able to watch special features
> which my wife and kid enjoy.
>
> Thanks for the info.

I did exactly the same thing a few years ago, but it's been a long,
long time, so my memory on my process is very fuzzy. (It also involved
my first foray into RAID...I've got a couple hundred DVDs!) Go ahead,
count the number of times I qualify something with "IIRC"...

dvdbackup can recreate the ISO images, IIRC.

If you run a simple 'dd' on a DVD with encrypted portions, you'll get
I/O errors when it encounters the encrypted pieces. IIRC, some of the
data required to decrypt those portions is on the disc, but it's in an
out-of-the-way portion that won't show up as part of the block device.
IIRC, dvdbackup makes use of libdvdcss to decrypt the encrypted
portions[1], and writes a decrypted version of the data. *this* is why
you can't make a bit-for-bit copy; the output data would be decrypted.

There are other, later obstacles, too; once CSS was broken, some
content publishers (Bandai USA, for example) would fudge the ISO spec
and the DVD nav specs in ways that didn't break *most* hardware DVD
players, but did tend to break players which strictly adhered to the
standards, such as ffmpeg, vlc and mplayer. It also broke dvdbackup
for me, IIRC, which is why I had to resort to vobcopy in some cases. I
expect the software angle for handling these things has gotten better,
though.

[1] I don't know how it does it when dd would have hit an I/O error.
Obviously, my understanding of the workings of dvdbackup, dd, DVDs and
CSS encryption is flawed somehow.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> No; you'll have to decrypt, or do without the encrypted bits.
>>>
>>> dvdbackup is probably the closest to what you want.
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 2011 11:09 AM, "Mark Knecht" <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For archive purposes is there a simple way for me to make a
>>>> bit-for-bit copy retail DVDs I've purchased?
>>>>
>>>> Assume that I've got the right sort of DVD drive, I guess something
>>>> capable of writing dual-layer DVDs.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Mark
>>
>> Interesting. So even something that just copies blocks of data, like
>> dd, can't be used for that purpose?
>>
>> I have no interest in tearing apart the DVD in any way. It was more
>> about the idea of a fire causing the loss of maybe $15K-$20K
>> investment over the years. I can rip all the CDs, keep the ripped
>> version here to watch on the computer, and store the DVDs elsewhere,
>> but that elimiates (generally) being able to watch special features
>> which my wife and kid enjoy.
>>
>> Thanks for the info.
>
> I did exactly the same thing a few years ago, but it's been a long,
> long time, so my memory on my process is very fuzzy. (It also involved
> my first foray into RAID...I've got a couple hundred DVDs!) Go ahead,
> count the number of times I qualify something with "IIRC"...
>
> dvdbackup can recreate the ISO images, IIRC.
>
> If you run a simple 'dd' on a DVD with encrypted portions, you'll get
> I/O errors when it encounters the encrypted pieces. IIRC, some of the
> data required to decrypt those portions is on the disc, but it's in an
> out-of-the-way portion that won't show up as part of the block device.
> IIRC, dvdbackup makes use of libdvdcss to decrypt the encrypted
> portions[1], and writes a decrypted version of the data. *this* is why
> you can't make a bit-for-bit copy; the output data would be decrypted.
>
> There are other, later obstacles, too; once CSS was broken, some
> content publishers (Bandai USA, for example) would fudge the ISO spec
> and the DVD nav specs in ways that didn't break *most* hardware DVD
> players, but did tend to break players which strictly adhered to the
> standards, such as ffmpeg, vlc and mplayer. It also broke dvdbackup
> for me, IIRC, which is why I had to resort to vobcopy in some cases. I
> expect the software angle for handling these things has gotten better,
> though.
>
> [1] I don't know how it does it when dd would have hit an I/O error.
> Obviously, my understanding of the workings of dvdbackup, dd, DVDs and
> CSS encryption is flawed somehow.
>
> --
> :wq
>

Thanks for the info. It makes it a bit clearer as to what's causing
the road block vs. the sort of answer Jorg provided this morning which
did nothing (as when I asked on the cd-record list a few days ago and
the answer there did nothing either) to advance my knowledge on the
subject.

I appreciate the time it took you to respond. Thanks!

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Joerg Schilling]

Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:

> dvdbackup can recreate the ISO images, IIRC.

No, dvdbackup just creates a readable mirror copy from the directory tree on 
the DVD. You need to use mkisofs -dvd-video to create a new ISO image that can 
be written to DVD.

> If you run a simple 'dd' on a DVD with encrypted portions, you'll get
> I/O errors when it encounters the encrypted pieces. IIRC, some of the

This is what I mentioned on the cdrecord mailing list already...

> IIRC, dvdbackup makes use of libdvdcss to decrypt the encrypted
> portions[1], and writes a decrypted version of the data. *this* is why
> you can't make a bit-for-bit copy; the output data would be decrypted.

dvdbackup decrypts the sectors that are part of the VOB files.

> There are other, later obstacles, too; once CSS was broken, some
> content publishers (Bandai USA, for example) would fudge the ISO spec
> and the DVD nav specs in ways that didn't break *most* hardware DVD
> players, but did tend to break players which strictly adhered to the
> standards, such as ffmpeg, vlc and mplayer. It also broke dvdbackup

This is interestingas some mkisofs users report that there are DVDs that look 
as if there is a need to introduce negative padding between some files.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011, Joerg Schilling wrote:
>This is interestingas some mkisofs users report that there are DVDs that look 
>as if there is a need to introduce negative padding between some files.

There's DVDs that look (to e.g. lsdvd) as if there were ~60 Tracks of
various sizes used, with a playing time of, say, 40 hours overall,
breaking the Specs willfully. Of course, only e.g. 4 Tracks are the
"real" tracks. Figuring out which tracks those are (e.g. playing the
disc with xine, mplayer or vlc) and then extracting only those tracks
with e.g. dvdbackup is the only possibility. Images etc. will be
defective. Don't ask me how you create such interleaved tracks
(e.g. tracks 20-35 would be various parts of a series episode but only
one, say 27, would be the full track). I'd guess "negative padding" (at
least in the nav-structures) might play a role there.

Just this week I've had a DVD, where lsdvd just barfed. The image with
k3b was broken. dvdbackup for single tracks worked.

That's one reason I like to rent a disc before I buy a whole series.
Actually, there's only one Movie-set that has broken (one or two out
of 5) discs, most I own are standard conforming and some seem to not
even bother with css.

"Digital files cannot be made uncopyable, any more than water can be made
not wet."                   --Bruce Schneier on `copy protection' schemes

And I want to make backups of the discs I own. The less hoops I'm
forced to jump through (with a rented disc), the more likely I am to
buy something. There's a certain series (c.f. above) I quite like, but
the DVDs are just plain broken. Won't buy. Period.

-dnh, got to look up the publisher on above mentioned disc where lsdvd
    barfed ... ah: Cnenzbhag. I hadn't have them on my "publishes
    un-DVDs" list yet. Well, anyway, some publishers seem to start not
    to produce un-DVDs lately. Just keep sending rented disc after
    disc back as "broken" and asking for replacement ...

-- 
>> Take two Gods.
>Diagnostic. n. Someone who doubts the existence of two Gods.
Makes sense. Every regular user of diagnostics that I know of only
believes in Murphy.   -- >>D. Holdsworth, >C. Suslowicz and Lionel

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011, Mark Knecht wrote:
>On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>> No; you'll have to decrypt, or do without the encrypted bits.
>> dvdbackup is probably the closest to what you want.
[..]
>Interesting. So even something that just copies blocks of data, like
>dd, can't be used for that purpose?

Depends on the disk. There's some you can copy with ddrescue, some
not. Have a tail -f on the messages, you can't use dd / ddrescue /
dd_rescue if you get stuff like this in the log:

kernel: [17700.046666] end_request: I/O error, dev sr0, sector 252120
kernel: [17700.131687] sr 16:0:0:0: [sr0]  Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
kernel: [17700.131698] sr 16:0:0:0: [sr0]  Sense Key : Illegal Request [current] 
kernel: [17700.131707] sr 16:0:0:0: [sr0]  Add. Sense: Read of scrambled sector without authentication

Note the "scrambeld sector". If you don't get those, it should work in
most cases. If you get those, use e.g. k3b to rip an iso-image (or
rather udf-image) of the disk, or use 'dvdbackup -M' to copy the
data. There's some "broken" disks though with intentional defects in
the filesystem etc., often from Fbal. You usually won't be able to
copy those "whole" and images witk k3b will probably be
defective. Using dvdbackup, dvdcpy, lxdvdrip, mplayer, tccat or so to
copy only the titles that you actually want (main feature, extras, but
e.g. no trailers and stuff) will be the only way.

HTH,
-dnh

-- 
God must love the Common Man; He made so many of them.
                                   -- BSD fortune file

[gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-12-16, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:

>> No; you'll have to decrypt, or do without the encrypted bits.
>>
>> dvdbackup is probably the closest to what you want.
>
> Interesting. So even something that just copies blocks of data, like
> dd, can't be used for that purpose?

Correct.  If you use dd to copy an encrypted disk, the result will be
missing something like 90% of the data.

> I have no interest in tearing apart the DVD in any way. It was more
> about the idea of a fire causing the loss of maybe $15K-$20K
> investment over the years. I can rip all the CDs, keep the ripped
> version here to watch on the computer, and store the DVDs elsewhere,
> but that elimiates (generally) being able to watch special features
> which my wife and kid enjoy.

No it doesn't.  You can use dvdbackup (or k9copy or ...) to copy the
DVDs to the computer and when you play them back you get all the menus
and special features and whatnot.  If you want you can create ISO
images and burn them to dual-layer-DVDs, but you don't need to do that
to play them with all the features.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Now we can become
                                  at               alcoholics!
                              gmail.com            

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2011-12-16, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> No; you'll have to decrypt, or do without the encrypted bits.
>>>
>>> dvdbackup is probably the closest to what you want.
>>
>> Interesting. So even something that just copies blocks of data, like
>> dd, can't be used for that purpose?
>
> Correct.  If you use dd to copy an encrypted disk, the result will be
> missing something like 90% of the data.
>
>> I have no interest in tearing apart the DVD in any way. It was more
>> about the idea of a fire causing the loss of maybe $15K-$20K
>> investment over the years. I can rip all the CDs, keep the ripped
>> version here to watch on the computer, and store the DVDs elsewhere,
>> but that elimiates (generally) being able to watch special features
>> which my wife and kid enjoy.
>
> No it doesn't.  You can use dvdbackup (or k9copy or ...) to copy the
> DVDs to the computer and when you play them back you get all the menus
> and special features and whatnot.  If you want you can create ISO
> images and burn them to dual-layer-DVDs, but you don't need to do that
> to play them with all the features.
>
> --
> Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Now we can become

Hi Grant,
   I should have guessed you'd be on top of this subject given your
pointer a month ago about Handbrake. (Which has been a really great
program.) Thanks for that and thanks for the additional info.

   So for my continued education, if I take an encrypted movie I can
use program XYZ (Linux or Windows-based...) to create an iso image,
but that iso image won't, even if it does include all the special
features, ever be a bit-for-bit copy of the original. It's now
unencrypted and created anew. It's a completely different way to
represent the original data.

   That said, if it's a _complete_ representation of the original then
the special features are there, and if written to a DVD _might_ work
in my DVD player, assuming the DVD player isn't specifically looking
for something that was on the original disc such as specifically
encrypted blocks of data, etc.

   Am I getting closer?

Thanks,
Mark

[gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-12-16, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Grant Edwards><grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Correct. If you use dd to copy an encrypted disk, the result will be
>> missing something like 90% of the data.
>>
>>> I have no interest in tearing apart the DVD in any way. It was more
>>> about the idea of a fire causing the loss of maybe $15K-$20K
>>> investment over the years. I can rip all the CDs, keep the ripped
>>> version here to watch on the computer, and store the DVDs elsewhere,
>>> but that elimiates (generally) being able to watch special features
>>> which my wife and kid enjoy.
>>
>> No it doesn't. You can use dvdbackup (or k9copy or ...) to copy the
>> DVDs to the computer and when you play them back you get all the
>> menus and special features and whatnot. If you want you can create
>> ISO images and burn them to dual-layer-DVDs, but you don't need to do
>> that to play them with all the features.

> So for my continued education, if I take an encrypted movie I can use
> program XYZ (Linux or Windows-based...) to create an iso image, but
> that iso image won't, even if it does include all the special
> features, ever be a bit-for-bit copy of the original. It's now
> unencrypted and created anew.

Exactly.  I used to use k9copy, but I got tired of fighting with Qt
dependancies and switched to dvdbackup.  Sometimes I create ISOs and
burn them to DVDs, but usually I just create directory trees and watch
them via a SageTv set-top-box that mounts the directory via NFS.

> It's a completely different way to represent the original data.

Yep.  I'm not aware of any Linux software that can create an encrypted
DVD -- but I've never had a desire to do that, so my lack of knowlege
of such a thing shouldn't be used as an indication of non-existence of
such a thing. :)

> That said, if it's a _complete_ representation of the original then
> the special features are there, and if written to a DVD _might_ work
> in my DVD player,

They've always worked in the DVD players I've tried them in, including
subtitles, special features, multiple audio tracks, etc.  The various
"backup" programs usually have options to pare down what's copied so
that you can do things like copy only the main title with one audio
track (with or without menus, subtitles, etc).  Some of the backup
programs will also re-encode the video to make the end result fit
within a specified size -- for example you can generate a 4.7G ISO
image from a 9GB original.

> assuming the DVD player isn't specifically looking for something that
> was on the original disc such as specifically encrypted blocks of
> data, etc.
>
> Am I getting closer?

Indeed you are.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! How's it going in
                                  at               those MODULAR LOVE UNITS??
                              gmail.com            

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:13:43 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:

> Yep.  I'm not aware of any Linux software that can create an encrypted
> DVD -- but I've never had a desire to do that, so my lack of knowlege
> of such a thing shouldn't be used as an indication of non-existence of
> such a thing. :)

You also don't have the hardware to create them. CSS keys are stored on a
separate area of the disc, an area that is not available on DVD-Rs,
which is why yo cannot copy a CSS-encrypted DVD with dd, it copies the
encrypted data but not the decryption keys.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I backed up my hard drive and ran into a bus.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Mark Knecht]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:13:43 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> Yep.  I'm not aware of any Linux software that can create an encrypted
>> DVD -- but I've never had a desire to do that, so my lack of knowlege
>> of such a thing shouldn't be used as an indication of non-existence of
>> such a thing. :)
>
> You also don't have the hardware to create them. CSS keys are stored on a
> separate area of the disc, an area that is not available on DVD-Rs,
> which is why yo cannot copy a CSS-encrypted DVD with dd, it copies the
> encrypted data but not the decryption keys.
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick

Interesting but still a little confusing. My DVD-RW drive can
apparently _read_ the CSS keys because xine can play the DVD. I'm
assuming here that the Linux DVD libraries need the keys but maybe
they don't actually even need them to play a DVD if the encryption can
be broken without the keys.

I guess you are saying that either the CSS keys are completely
unnecessary, or that the DVD-RW drive can read but not write to the
area where they are stored?

Thanks,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Michael Mol]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:13:43 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>> Yep.  I'm not aware of any Linux software that can create an encrypted
>>> DVD -- but I've never had a desire to do that, so my lack of knowlege
>>> of such a thing shouldn't be used as an indication of non-existence of
>>> such a thing. :)
>>
>> You also don't have the hardware to create them. CSS keys are stored on a
>> separate area of the disc, an area that is not available on DVD-Rs,
>> which is why yo cannot copy a CSS-encrypted DVD with dd, it copies the
>> encrypted data but not the decryption keys.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Neil Bothwick
>
> Interesting but still a little confusing. My DVD-RW drive can
> apparently _read_ the CSS keys because xine can play the DVD. I'm
> assuming here that the Linux DVD libraries need the keys but maybe
> they don't actually even need them to play a DVD if the encryption can
> be broken without the keys.
>
> I guess you are saying that either the CSS keys are completely
> unnecessary,

The CSS encryption scheme is incredibly poor. Where it's actually
applied, it can usually be cracked fast enough that you wouldn't
notice a stutter in playback.

> or that the DVD-RW drive can read but not write to the
> area where they are stored?

They may be read, but not written to. In order to read them, your
player software needs to present the DVD-reading devices with some
kind of credential. DVD playback devices are supposed to be licensed,
and this is the hardware means of enforcing that.

Consumer DVD burners aren't able to write to the portion of the disc
where keys are stored, either. This is part of the copy protection
mechanism of CSS.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Paul Hartman]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I guess you are saying that either the CSS keys are completely
> unnecessary, or that the DVD-RW drive can read but not write to the
> area where they are stored?

I think, typically, when a DVD with copy-protection is manufactured,
it is sent on DLT tape or a special "DVD for Authoring" disc which
contains the unencrypted movie but also an extra area with encryption
data needed by the disc manufacturer who can press the real, encrypted
DVDs. In other words you can't burn your own CSS-encrypted DVD at
home. :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Sat, 17 Dec 2011, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:13:43 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>> Yep.  I'm not aware of any Linux software that can create an encrypted
>> DVD -- but I've never had a desire to do that, so my lack of knowlege
>> of such a thing shouldn't be used as an indication of non-existence of
>> such a thing. :)
>
>You also don't have the hardware to create them. CSS keys are stored on a
>separate area of the disc, an area that is not available on DVD-Rs,
>which is why yo cannot copy a CSS-encrypted DVD with dd, it copies the
>encrypted data but not the decryption keys.

Sure they can be read and copied with ddrescue. On some disks at
least. This one, I copied with ddrescue:

$ xine dvd://${PWD}/some_rather_recent_dvd.iso
This is xine (X11 gui) - a free video player v0.99.6.
(c) 2000-2007 The xine Team.
libdvdread: Using libdvdcss version 1.2.11 for DVD access
libdvdcss error: failed to open raw device, but continuing

libdvdread: Attempting to retrieve all CSS keys
libdvdread: This can take a _long_ time, please be patient

libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.VOB at 0x00000130
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
[..]

and the xine plays the .iso as usual. On the other paw, there's other
discs where 'ddrescue' just causes those "scrambled sector" messages,
but the images made with k3b works just fine:

$ xine dvd://${PWD}/some_other_recent_dvd.iso
This is xine (X11 gui) - a free video player v0.99.6.
(c) 2000-2007 The xine Team.
libdvdread: Using libdvdcss version 1.2.11 for DVD access
libdvdcss error: failed to open raw device, but continuing

libdvdread: Attempting to retrieve all CSS keys
libdvdread: This can take a _long_ time, please be patient

libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.VOB at 0x00000130
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0

Go figure.

And, as I've said, there's other broken discs where k3b etc. won't
work either and you have to resort to copy only single titles ...

So, I generally try with ddrescue first and have a 'tail -f' on the
log (I filter those sr_mod messages to a seperate logfile[1] ;) Then
k3b (or brasero etc., an imaging program anyway).  Then (by now)
dvdbackup. There are some alternatives, but I've basically given up on
those.

HTH,
-dnh

[1] ==== /etc/syslog-ng/syslog-ng.conf ====
filter f_sr_mod     { facility(kern) and message("sr[0-9]"); };
[..]
filter f_messages   { not [..] and not filter(f_sr_mod); };
filter f_warn       { level(warn, err, crit) and [..] not filter(f_sr_mod); };
[..]
destination srmodmessages { file("/var/log/sr_mod"); };
log { source(src); filter(f_sr_mod); 
      destination(srmodmessages); flags(final); };
====

-- 
Dinner not ready...(A)bort (R)etry (P)izza

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1535 bytes --]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 10:49:34 +0100, David Haller wrote:

> >You also don't have the hardware to create them. CSS keys are stored
> >on a separate area of the disc, an area that is not available on
> >DVD-Rs, which is why you cannot copy a CSS-encrypted DVD with dd, it
> >copies the encrypted data but not the decryption keys.  
> 
> Sure they can be read and copied with ddrescue. On some disks at
> least. This one, I copied with ddrescue:
> 
> $ xine dvd://${PWD}/some_rather_recent_dvd.iso
> This is xine (X11 gui) - a free video player v0.99.6.
> (c) 2000-2007 The xine Team.
> libdvdread: Using libdvdcss version 1.2.11 for DVD access
> libdvdcss error: failed to open raw device, but continuing
> 
> libdvdread: Attempting to retrieve all CSS keys
> libdvdread: This can take a _long_ time, please be patient
> 
> libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.VOB at 0x00000130
> libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
> [..]
> 
> and the xine plays the .iso as usual. On the other paw, there's other
> discs where 'ddrescue' just causes those "scrambled sector" messages,
> but the images made with k3b works just fine:

I didn't say you can't read then, I said you can't write them, because
the key storage area is not writeable on DVD-R discs.

Yes, Joerg, I know people with your connections can get special discs and
drives, but for standard consumer hardware and media, what I said was
true.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

We shall shortly be landing. Please return your stewardess to
the upright position.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Joerg Schilling]

Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> You also don't have the hardware to create them. CSS keys are stored on a
> separate area of the disc, an area that is not available on DVD-Rs,
> which is why yo cannot copy a CSS-encrypted DVD with dd, it copies the
> encrypted data but not the decryption keys.

This is not really correct....

The related area is available and writable on DVD-Rs. 

DVD-Rs have been introduced in September 1997. You coul only buy them with an 
OK from the Pioneer boss. In February 1998, I received a sample drive for 
cdrecord development that I had to bring back to the Pioneer CeBIT booth in 
March.... 

At CeBIT-2001 a third generation of DVD-Rs was introduced. This third 
generation introduced a quite different wavelength. It is sold since autumn 
2001 and the media delivered for these drives is prerecorded at the place where 
the CSS key is expected.

If you have good connections to a media manufacturer to get the media before 
the pre-recording starts and if you have good connections to a drive 
manufacturer that produces drives with special firmware for the prerecording, 
you can do ;-)

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Joerg Schilling]

Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2011-12-16, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> No; you'll have to decrypt, or do without the encrypted bits.
> >>
> >> dvdbackup is probably the closest to what you want.
> >
> > Interesting. So even something that just copies blocks of data, like
> > dd, can't be used for that purpose?
>
> Correct.  If you use dd to copy an encrypted disk, the result will be
> missing something like 90% of the data.

dd will abort on the first unreadable sector.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Stroller]

On 16 December 2011, at 17:25, Mark Knecht wrote:
> ...
> I have no interest in tearing apart the DVD in any way. It was more
> about the idea of a fire causing the loss of maybe $15K-$20K
> investment over the years. I can rip all the CDs, keep the ripped
> version here to watch on the computer, and store the DVDs elsewhere,
> but that elimiates (generally) being able to watch special features
> which my wife and kid enjoy.

I've been down this path fairly extensively.

Use media-video/dvdbackup and mkisofs (from app-cdr/cdrtools) to create .iso images of your DVDs.

Store these on a Samba share, then use something like the PlayOn HD Mini or the Western Digital TV Live! to watch them on your big screen TV.

These players allow you to treat .iso files on the network just as if they were actual DVDs and give you full access to the menus and extra features.

I'm in the process of trying media-tv/xbmc instead - I believe it handles menus, but haven't got far enough to test that (I just got video sorted on my HTPC, now working on sound).

dvdbackup will fail on a small number of DVDs which have been "copy-protected" by making them non-compliant with the DVD specification (IMO this is fixable in dvdbackup's code), but I'm getting at least a 95% success rate.

I have found writing dual-layer DVDs practically impossible. The failure rate is way too high - even disks which burned "successfully" are unreadable on another PC / player.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Stroller
<stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm in the process of trying media-tv/xbmc instead - I believe it handles menus, but haven't got far enough to test that

It does, I've been using it on my xbox for years. :)

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Stroller
<stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On 16 December 2011, at 17:25, Mark Knecht wrote:
>> ...
>> I have no interest in tearing apart the DVD in any way. It was more
>> about the idea of a fire causing the loss of maybe $15K-$20K
>> investment over the years. I can rip all the CDs, keep the ripped
>> version here to watch on the computer, and store the DVDs elsewhere,
>> but that elimiates (generally) being able to watch special features
>> which my wife and kid enjoy.
>
> I've been down this path fairly extensively.
>
> Use media-video/dvdbackup and mkisofs (from app-cdr/cdrtools) to create .iso images of your DVDs.
>
> Store these on a Samba share, then use something like the PlayOn HD Mini or the Western Digital TV Live! to watch them on your big screen TV.
>
> These players allow you to treat .iso files on the network just as if they were actual DVDs and give you full access to the menus and extra features.
>
> I'm in the process of trying media-tv/xbmc instead - I believe it handles menus, but haven't got far enough to test that (I just got video sorted on my HTPC, now working on sound).
>
> dvdbackup will fail on a small number of DVDs which have been "copy-protected" by making them non-compliant with the DVD specification (IMO this is fixable in dvdbackup's code), but I'm getting at least a 95% success rate.
>
> I have found writing dual-layer DVDs practically impossible. The failure rate is way too high - even disks which burned "successfully" are unreadable on another PC / player.
>
> Stroller.
>
>

Interesting info. Thanks.

My new TV actually has a number of USB ports and I've managed to mount
a USB disk with mp4 files created by Handbrake and play them just
fine. I hadn't considered trying an iso file though. I'll give that a
shot this weekend and see if it sees them. Unfortunately *.iso isn't
on their recognized formats list, but it's worth a try. The nice thing
about the TV is that it has lots of Open Source software built in and
puts of nice folders showing the directories I've created and all the
files in each directory. I'm currently experimenting with how much I
can tolerate in terms of compressing the DVD info.

I'll certainly look into dvdbackup. I tried to emerge it but I've
gotten some sort of package block going on that portage isn't happy
about.

Thanks,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Joerg Schilling]

Stroller <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:

> I have found writing dual-layer DVDs practically impossible. The failure rate is way too high - even disks which burned "successfully" are unreadable on another PC / player.

Dual layer DVDs will only work, if the layer break is at the right place.

I so far have not been able to get the layer break value from the IFO file.

You need to use cdrecord -atip to get the layer break value and then use 
cdrecord layerbreak=# and a DVD+R/DL media.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Raffaele BELARDI]

On 12/16/2011 10:12 PM, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> 
> Dual layer DVDs will only work, if the layer break is at the right place.
> 
> I so far have not been able to get the layer break value from the IFO file.
> 
> You need to use cdrecord -atip to get the layer break value and then use 
> cdrecord layerbreak=# and a DVD+R/DL media.
> 

That means run "cdrecord -atip" on the empty media and then use that
value to master the media with "cdrecord layerbreak="?

thanks,

raf

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Joerg Schilling]

Raffaele BELARDI <raffaele.belardi@st.com> wrote:

> On 12/16/2011 10:12 PM, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> > 
> > Dual layer DVDs will only work, if the layer break is at the right place.
> > 
> > I so far have not been able to get the layer break value from the IFO file.
> > 
> > You need to use cdrecord -atip to get the layer break value and then use 
> > cdrecord layerbreak=# and a DVD+R/DL media.
> > 
>
> That means run "cdrecord -atip" on the empty media and then use that
> value to master the media with "cdrecord layerbreak="?

Sorry, it seems that I forgot to type this.... You need to run cdrecord -atip 
on the original disc to find the original layer break value.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011, Stroller wrote:
>On 16 December 2011, at 17:25, Mark Knecht wrote:
>> ...
>> I have no interest in tearing apart the DVD in any way. It was more
>> about the idea of a fire causing the loss of maybe $15K-$20K
>> investment over the years. I can rip all the CDs, keep the ripped
>> version here to watch on the computer, and store the DVDs elsewhere,
>> but that elimiates (generally) being able to watch special features
>> which my wife and kid enjoy.
>
>I've been down this path fairly extensively.

So have I. Um, if my index is right, about 1k-ish ;)

>Use media-video/dvdbackup and mkisofs (from app-cdr/cdrtools) to
>create .iso images of your DVDs.
>
>Store these on a Samba share, then use something like the PlayOn HD
>Mini or the Western Digital TV Live! to watch them on your big screen
>TV.
>
>These players allow you to treat .iso files on the network just as if
>they were actual DVDs and give you full access to the menus and extra
>features.

At least mplayer, vlc and xine will also happily play a directory, be
it a mounted DVD, a mounted image or just a rip as made by dvdbackup
and others (e.g. lxdvdrip).

>dvdbackup will fail on a small number of DVDs which have been
>"copy-protected" by making them non-compliant with the DVD
>specification (IMO this is fixable in dvdbackup's code), but I'm
>getting at least a 95% success rate.

See my other mail(s), finding the correct tracks with above players
and then ripping only those tracks with 'dvdbackup -t TRACKNO ...'
should get you to 99.5% or so. The rest is usually just plain broken.
So far, I've always got a result out of non-physically-defective disc
(I don't mind throwing away the menus though).

I even had the situation that trying to only play one such disc (with
xine IIRC) made my box hang up. Needed a hard reset. Weirdly enough, I
could still rip the tracks after the reboot with dvdbackup or so and
the result was ok ... Probably the (libata) IDE driver got thoroughly
screwed on that first try by whatever combination of commands and
drive reactions...

>I have found writing dual-layer DVDs practically impossible. The
>failure rate is way too high - even disks which burned "successfully"
>are unreadable on another PC / player.

I've, so far, only written data-DVD-DL, no problems with those ;)

BTW: do you reencode stuff? I use mencoder with:

-x264encopts crf=22:trellis=1:qcomp=0.8:weight_b:8x8dct:subq=6:nr=750

the resulting files are usually surprisingly small and still have a
very good quality (I can't see a difference to the original with both
unscaled on the screen (PAL-DVD, not HD ;). I have yet to try that one
on some difficuly cases though (dark scenes in a movie with fog,
panning, and movement and a quite noisy-in-the-dark series
(SG-1/S1). Might have to break out hqdn3d again for the latter.

-dnh

-- 
Rincewind shut his eyes. Inside his mind he could feel the Spell scuttling
off to hide behind his conscience, and muttering to itself.
                           -- Terry Pratchett, The Light Fantastic, p. 161

[gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-12-17, David Haller <gentoo@dhaller.de> wrote:

>>Store these on a Samba share, then use something like the PlayOn HD
>>Mini or the Western Digital TV Live! to watch them on your big screen
>>TV.
>>
>>These players allow you to treat .iso files on the network just as if
>>they were actual DVDs and give you full access to the menus and extra
>>features.
>
> At least mplayer, vlc and xine will also happily play a directory, be
> it a mounted DVD, a mounted image or just a rip as made by dvdbackup
> and others (e.g. lxdvdrip).

The SageTv set-top box will happily play a DVD directory also (in
addition to playing TV shows recorded by the SageTv DVR server
software).  Sadly, Google bought SageTv and shut them down.  It's too
bad.  SageTv server + set-top-box was a really great product.  I don't
know what I'm going to do when it dies.  I absolutely dread going to
back to MythTv with a big, hot, noisy PC sitting next to my TV...

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I am a jelly donut.
                                  at               I am a jelly donut.
                              gmail.com            

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Stroller]

On 17 December 2011, at 20:39, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2011-12-17, David Haller <gentoo@dhaller.de> wrote:
> 
>>> Store these on a Samba share, then use something like the PlayOn HD
>>> Mini or the Western Digital TV Live! to watch them on your big screen
>>> TV.
>>> 
>>> These players allow you to treat .iso files on the network just as if
>>> they were actual DVDs and give you full access to the menus and extra
>>> features.
>> 
>> At least mplayer, vlc and xine will also happily play a directory, be
>> it a mounted DVD, a mounted image or just a rip as made by dvdbackup
>> and others (e.g. lxdvdrip).
> 
> The SageTv set-top box will happily play a DVD directory also (in
> addition to playing TV shows recorded by the SageTv DVR server
> software).  

Practically all players will do this, I think, but I much prefer having the DVD as a single file, to move and copy and store.

A directory containing a a VIDEO_TS and a load of files just seems a lot more fragile to me. Were you to accidentally delete one of the VOB files, there would be no way to tell the difference from looking at the outside of the video's folder.

> … I absolutely dread going to
> back to MythTv with a big, hot, noisy PC sitting next to my TV…

I bought an eMachines 1401 recently - it's not as perfectly silent as the PlayOn (which is fanless), but it's *very* close. It's an AMD atom-equivalent, dual-core, mini desktop PC, about 7" on a side and maybe 1" thick. Right now, powered on with no load just to judge it for this conversation, I can hear it if my ear is a foot away from it, but not 2 or 3 feet away, not against the normal background noise in my apartment (clock ticking in the kitchen and so on). Right now its hard-drive is louder than its fan (which is shifting so little air that I can barely feel it, even putting my hand an inch from the grille). I think that if you load it up with an emerge then the fan will ramp up a bit, but I doubt if you'd notice it when watching a movie.

Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-12-17, Stroller <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On 17 December 2011, at 20:39, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2011-12-17, David Haller <gentoo@dhaller.de> wrote:
>> 
>>>> Store these on a Samba share, then use something like the PlayOn HD
>>>> Mini or the Western Digital TV Live! to watch them on your big screen
>>>> TV.
>>>> 
>>>> These players allow you to treat .iso files on the network just as if
>>>> they were actual DVDs and give you full access to the menus and extra
>>>> features.
>>> 
>>> At least mplayer, vlc and xine will also happily play a directory, be
>>> it a mounted DVD, a mounted image or just a rip as made by dvdbackup
>>> and others (e.g. lxdvdrip).
>> 
>> The SageTv set-top box will happily play a DVD directory also (in
>> addition to playing TV shows recorded by the SageTv DVR server
>> software).  
>
> Practically all players will do this, I think, but I much prefer having the DVD as a single file, to move and copy and store.
>
> A directory containing a a VIDEO_TS and a load of files just seems a
> lot more fragile to me. Were you to accidentally delete one of the
> VOB files, there would be no way to tell the difference from looking
> at the outside of the video's folder.

True, but that's never happened.  ISO images work fine, but the extra
"layer of indirection" is an inefficiency that irritates the engineer
in me.

>> ? I absolutely dread going to
>> back to MythTv with a big, hot, noisy PC sitting next to my TV?
>
> I bought an eMachines 1401 recently - it's not as perfectly silent as
> the PlayOn (which is fanless), but it's *very* close. It's an AMD
> atom-equivalent, dual-core, mini desktop PC, about 7" on a side and
> maybe 1" thick. Right now, powered on with no load just to judge it
> for this conversation, I can hear it if my ear is a foot away from
> it, but not 2 or 3 feet away, not against the normal background noise
> in my apartment (clock ticking in the kitchen and so on). Right now
> its hard-drive is louder than its fan (which is shifting so little
> air that I can barely feel it, even putting my hand an inch from the
> grille). I think that if you load it up with an emerge then the fan
> will ramp up a bit, but I doubt if you'd notice it when watching a
> movie.

There are some platforms that are getting pretty decent, but they
still cost 5X as much as a set-top-box box, draw 10X as much power,
and are about 4X larger.  They're probably approaching "tolerable",
but compared to something like a Roku or SageTv box, they're still an
embarassment.

I used a Mac Mini for a while as a MythTv frontend, and it was quiet
enough that it wasn't noticable unless the room was dead silent.  It
would have been OK if I had been able to get DVI output working.

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Stroller]

On 18 December 2011, at 03:07, Grant Edwards wrote:
> ...
>>> ? I absolutely dread going to
>>> back to MythTv with a big, hot, noisy PC sitting next to my TV?
>> 
>> I bought an eMachines 1401 recently - it's not as perfectly silent as
>> the PlayOn (which is fanless), but it's *very* close. It's an AMD
>> atom-equivalent, dual-core, mini desktop PC, about 7" on a side and
>> maybe 1" thick. Right now, powered on with no load just to judge it
>> for this conversation, I can hear it if my ear is a foot away from
>> it, but not 2 or 3 feet away, not against the normal background noise
>> in my apartment (clock ticking in the kitchen and so on). Right now
>> its hard-drive is louder than its fan (which is shifting so little
>> air that I can barely feel it, even putting my hand an inch from the
>> grille). I think that if you load it up with an emerge then the fan
>> will ramp up a bit, but I doubt if you'd notice it when watching a
>> movie.
> 
> There are some platforms that are getting pretty decent, but they
> still cost 5X as much as a set-top-box box, draw 10X as much power,
> and are about 4X larger.  They're probably approaching "tolerable",
> but compared to something like a Roku or SageTv box, they're still an
> embarassment.
> 
> I used a Mac Mini for a while as a MythTv frontend, and it was quiet
> enough that it wasn't noticable unless the room was dead silent.  It
> would have been OK if I had been able to get DVI output working.

You're absolutely not doing the current generation of atom-type mini-PCs justice.

My 250GB eMachine cost about the same as the PlayOnHD STB does, maybe 10% more, except the PlayON comes without a hard-drive or wifi.

I took great pains to describe how there is *technically* a little fan noise from the eMachine, but I'll believe you can hear the difference in real-life after you've proved it. 

Neil has told you the same thing about his Revo - those are considered the go-to off-the-shelf HTCP front-end these days. 

Indeed, they don't have optical drives, and indeed you can spend a lot of money if you want to put an ATX mainboard in a fancy brushed-aluminium Silbverstone case. But if that's what you want, an STB wouldn't be meeting your needs, anyway.

On the matter of noise and power-consumption, the difference between set-top-boxes and atom-type mini-PCs is so insignificant that I can't believe anyone splitting hairs over the matter has tried them both.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:39:38 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:

> The SageTv set-top box will happily play a DVD directory also (in
> addition to playing TV shows recorded by the SageTv DVR server
> software).  Sadly, Google bought SageTv and shut them down.  It's too
> bad.  SageTv server + set-top-box was a really great product.  I don't
> know what I'm going to do when it dies.  I absolutely dread going to
> back to MythTv with a big, hot, noisy PC sitting next to my TV...

I use an Acer Aspire Revo attached to the back of the TV. it is inaudible
apart from a one second burst of fan noise when powering on, and the
Nvidia ION chipset is good enough to play 1080p recordings.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Windows Error #56: Operator fell asleep while waiting.

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Re: [gentoo-user] DVD Movie backups

[Peter Humphrey]

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On Friday 16 December 2011 19:15:12 Stroller wrote:
> On 16 December 2011, at 17:25, Mark Knecht wrote:
> > I have no interest in tearing apart the DVD in any way. It was more
> > about the idea of a fire causing the loss of maybe $15K-$20K
> > investment over the years. I can rip all the CDs, keep the ripped
> > version here to watch on the computer, and store the DVDs elsewhere,
> > but that elimiates (generally) being able to watch special features
> > which my wife and kid enjoy.
> 
> I've been down this path fairly extensively.

Do you know of any way to read a DVD that was created on a Mac of some sort?

-- 
Rgds
Peter		Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23

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[gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[walt]

On 12/17/2011 03:26 AM, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>
> Do you know of any way to read a DVD that was created on a Mac of some sort?

I'm fuzzy on the details, but Apple has/had its own filesystems named HFS
and HFSplus.  I'm guessing that data disks burned with a Mac will use HFS,
but I don't know about movie/audio disks.  You can enable HFS support in
kernel menuconfig.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Michael Mol]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 3:09 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/17/2011 03:26 AM, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>>
>>
>> Do you know of any way to read a DVD that was created on a Mac of some
>> sort?
>
>
> I'm fuzzy on the details, but Apple has/had its own filesystems named HFS
> and HFSplus.  I'm guessing that data disks burned with a Mac will use HFS,
> but I don't know about movie/audio disks.  You can enable HFS support in
> kernel menuconfig.

The dead-easy way to tell would be to insert the disc, and then run

file -s /dev/cdrom

(or /dev/dvd, or /dev/sr0, or /dev/whatever...)
-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Peter Humphrey]

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On Saturday 17 December 2011 21:19:27 Michael Mol wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 3:09 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 12/17/2011 03:26 AM, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> >> Do you know of any way to read a DVD that was created on a Mac of 
some
> >> sort?
> > 
> > I'm fuzzy on the details, but Apple has/had its own filesystems named
> > HFS and HFSplus.  I'm guessing that data disks burned with a Mac will
> > use HFS, but I don't know about movie/audio disks.  You can enable HFS
> > support in kernel menuconfig.
> 
> The dead-easy way to tell would be to insert the disc, and then run
> 
> file -s /dev/cdrom
> 
> (or /dev/dvd, or /dev/sr0, or /dev/whatever...)

I got this:
$ sudo file -s /dev/sr0
/dev/sr0: ERROR: cannot read `/dev/sr0' (Input/output error)

So I recompiled the kernel to include both hfs and hfsplus and got the same 
after booting with the new kernel and loading the modules.

Dmesg had this:
$ dmesg | tail
[...]
[  208.369492] sr 2:0:0:0: [sr0]  Result: hostbyte=DID_OK 
driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
[  208.369495] sr 2:0:0:0: [sr0]  Sense Key : Illegal Request [current] 
[  208.369497] sr 2:0:0:0: [sr0]  Add. Sense: Illegal mode for this track
[  208.369501] sr 2:0:0:0: [sr0] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 00 00 00 10 00 00 01 
00
[  208.369505] end_request: I/O error, dev sr0, sector 64
[  208.369516] isofs_fill_super: bread failed, dev=sr0, iso_blknum=16, 
block=16

The DVD is mostly wedding photos, with an audio track thrown in. Maybe it 
wasn't written on a Mac, but I'd be surprised if so.

I'm stuck now. Thanks both for your help so far.

-- 
Rgds
Peter		Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Michael Mol]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 5:28 PM, Peter Humphrey
<peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> On Saturday 17 December 2011 21:19:27 Michael Mol wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 3:09 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > On 12/17/2011 03:26 AM, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>
>> >> Do you know of any way to read a DVD that was created on a Mac of some
>
>> >> sort?
>
>> >
>
>> > I'm fuzzy on the details, but Apple has/had its own filesystems named
>
>> > HFS and HFSplus.  I'm guessing that data disks burned with a Mac will
>
>> > use HFS, but I don't know about movie/audio disks.  You can enable HFS
>
>> > support in kernel menuconfig.
>
>>
>
>> The dead-easy way to tell would be to insert the disc, and then run
>
>>
>
>> file -s /dev/cdrom
>
>>
>
>> (or /dev/dvd, or /dev/sr0, or /dev/whatever...)
>
>
>
> I got this:
>
> $ sudo file -s /dev/sr0
>
> /dev/sr0: ERROR: cannot read `/dev/sr0' (Input/output error)
>
>
>
> So I recompiled the kernel to include both hfs and hfsplus and got the same
> after booting with the new kernel and loading the modules.
>
>
>
> Dmesg had this:
>
> $ dmesg | tail
>
> [...]
>
> [ 208.369492] sr 2:0:0:0: [sr0] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK
> driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
>
> [ 208.369495] sr 2:0:0:0: [sr0] Sense Key : Illegal Request [current]
>
> [ 208.369497] sr 2:0:0:0: [sr0] Add. Sense: Illegal mode for this track
>
> [ 208.369501] sr 2:0:0:0: [sr0] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 00 00 00 10 00 00 01 00
>
> [ 208.369505] end_request: I/O error, dev sr0, sector 64
>
> [ 208.369516] isofs_fill_super: bread failed, dev=sr0, iso_blknum=16,
> block=16
>
>
>
> The DVD is mostly wedding photos, with an audio track thrown in. Maybe it
> wasn't written on a Mac, but I'd be surprised if so.
>
>
>
> I'm stuck now. Thanks both for your help so far.

Photo-CD, perhaps?

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Peter Humphrey]

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On Saturday 17 December 2011 22:32:07 Michael Mol wrote:

> Photo-CD, perhaps?

Seems likely, especially as it was made by a professional wedding 
photographer. What do I need to read it? The Wikipedia article doesn't lead 
me anywhere.

-- 
Rgds
Peter		Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Michael Mol]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Peter Humphrey
<peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> On Saturday 17 December 2011 22:32:07 Michael Mol wrote:
>> Photo-CD, perhaps?
>
> Seems likely, especially as it was made by a professional wedding
> photographer. What do I need to read it? The Wikipedia article doesn't lead
> me anywhere.

I tried grepping the 3.0.6 kernel sources, and I didn't get any hits
in source files, just in old documentation. Not sure if photo cds are
still supported, or if special support simply isn't required there.

It looks like there's media-plugins/vdr-pcd, but I don't know anything
about it. Perhaps some normal photo managers might be able to handle
it.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 23:43:49 +0000, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > Photo-CD, perhaps?  
> 
> Seems likely, especially as it was made by a professional wedding 
> photographer. What do I need to read it? The Wikipedia article doesn't
> lead me anywhere.

AFAIR, and I haven't used PhotoCD in a LONG time, they use a standard
ISO9660 filesystem.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I'm not anti-social, I'm just not user friendly

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Joerg Schilling]

Peter Humphrey <peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:

> On Saturday 17 December 2011 22:32:07 Michael Mol wrote:
>
> > Photo-CD, perhaps?
>
> Seems likely, especially as it was made by a professional wedding 
> photographer. What do I need to read it? The Wikipedia article doesn't lead 
> me anywhere.

Illegal mode for this track is an error code that cannot happen with DVDs...

It is unlikely that today photo-CDs are written. It is more likeky a Picture CD.

Mkisofs and cdrecord can write Photo-CDs and Picture CDs. The man pages contain 
related information ;-) Check for CD-ROM-XA in the text.

If you cannot mount this media type, this is a result from missing features in 
the driver. I added a related to the Solaris filesystem driver in 1992, so I 
would exptect to see related features in Linux also.

You need support in the filesystem driver and in the CD-ROM driver to get 
support for CD-ROM-XA.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js@cs.tu-berlin.de                (uni)  
       joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Peter Humphrey]

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On Sunday 18 December 2011 12:45:44 Joerg Schilling wrote:

> Illegal mode for this track is an error code that cannot happen with
> DVDs...

That eliminates one thing then.

> It is unlikely that today photo-CDs are written. It is more likeky a
> Picture CD.

Ah. I haven't come across those.

> If you cannot mount this media type, this is a result from missing
> features in the driver. I added a related to the Solaris filesystem
> driver in 1992, so I would exptect to see related features in Linux
> also.
> 
> You need support in the filesystem driver and in the CD-ROM driver to get
> support for CD-ROM-XA.

I've tried every option I can think of in the kernel config but I still get 
the same error. Any other ideas? Thanks for help so far.

-- 
Rgds
Peter		Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[Peter Humphrey]

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On Sunday 18 December 2011 13:58:42 Peter Humphrey wrote:

> I've tried every option I can think of in the kernel config but I still
> get the same error. Any other ideas? Thanks for help so far.

Hmm. It seems to register as an audio CD, and copying it in K3b creates a 
640MB wav file. Now that's bizarre, as it's supposed to contain a whole lot 
of pictures as well as a small-by-comparison audio track.

-- 
Rgds
Peter		Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23

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[gentoo-user] Re: DVD Movie backups

[James]

Mark Knecht <markknecht <at> gmail.com> writes:


> For archive purposes is there a simple way for me to make a
> bit-for-bit copy retail DVDs I've purchased?

Some time back, I was almost ready to do something
big on my 1000+ dvd collection. I did a lot of 
research. I got stuck on the raid servers
and then abandoned the project. I'm building a 
new office and stuck in brick and mortar at
this time.....

STROLLER has tried everything and knows what works.
He has some very cool scripts (I bet he'd share,
if you ask him) I'd strike up a conversation with
Stroller. When I get back to it, I was going to
also put the great information into a wiki for
many others to use....as I think there are many Gentoo'rs
that have similar needs and desires.

Stroller knows his stuff on video, because I think
he has tried every piece of software and reproduction
scheme you can imagine... (um, I mean related to video).
;-) 


hth,
James