[gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Hi,

This is maybe a bit off topic but here goes.  I want to install Linux on 
my brothers rig.  The heat sink on the CPU is not much, OEM type.  I 
don't want to install Gentoo because of that and it is a older rig with 
a slow CPU and not a lot of ram either.  So, what is a easy to install 
distro that has KDE4, Seamonkey, gtkam, GIMP and such?  I want something 
easy because I want to install and leave it be until he can get a new 
rig built.  Then I'll be installing Gentoo for a more permanent install.

I looked at Kubuntu, Ubuntu and tried to install Mandriva.  Mandriva got 
to a point and just froze up on me.  I tried three times and it did the 
same thing each time so no clue what is going on there.

Ideas?

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:25:11 -0600
Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> This is maybe a bit off topic but here goes.  I want to install Linux
> on my brothers rig.  The heat sink on the CPU is not much, OEM type.
> I don't want to install Gentoo because of that and it is a older rig
> with a slow CPU and not a lot of ram either.  So, what is a easy to
> install distro that has KDE4, Seamonkey, gtkam, GIMP and such? 

Almost any general-purpose distro out there will have those. It really
doesn't matter which one you pick so go with the one that has
wallpapers your brother likes.

Hey, seeing as the distro itself is not so relevant actually, you
might as well pick any old arbitrary differentiator. Wallpapers are as
good as any.


 
> I
> want something easy because I want to install and leave it be until
> he can get a new rig built.  Then I'll be installing Gentoo for a
> more permanent install.
> 
> I looked at Kubuntu, Ubuntu and tried to install Mandriva.  Mandriva
> got to a point and just froze up on me.  I tried three times and it
> did the same thing each time so no clue what is going on there.
> 
> Ideas?
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)
> 



-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:25:11 -0600
> Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is maybe a bit off topic but here goes.  I want to install Linux
>> on my brothers rig.  The heat sink on the CPU is not much, OEM type.
>> I don't want to install Gentoo because of that and it is a older rig
>> with a slow CPU and not a lot of ram either.  So, what is a easy to
>> install distro that has KDE4, Seamonkey, gtkam, GIMP and such?
> Almost any general-purpose distro out there will have those. It really
> doesn't matter which one you pick so go with the one that has
> wallpapers your brother likes.
>
> Hey, seeing as the distro itself is not so relevant actually, you
> might as well pick any old arbitrary differentiator. Wallpapers are as
> good as any.
>
>
>

Thanks Alan.  I'm downloading Kubuntu.  I picked the CD version since I 
think it will have what I need.  I wanted to install Mandriva since I 
have used it before and sort of know how it works but since it won't 
complete the install, gotta pick something else.  lol

The biggest thing is that I didn't want to have to compile a lot of 
stuff.  I just don't like the small heat sink the CPU has.  It might be 
OK for winders but compiling OOo for 12 hours may cause a heat problem.  
;-)  My brother has to have OOo too.

Any tips or tricks on Kubuntu anyone?  Sort of a basic 'this is how you 
update/install something for idiots' type thing.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Florian Philipp]

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Am 10.11.2011 19:25, schrieb Dale:
> Hi,
> 
> This is maybe a bit off topic but here goes.  I want to install Linux on
> my brothers rig.  The heat sink on the CPU is not much, OEM type.  I
> don't want to install Gentoo because of that and it is a older rig with
> a slow CPU and not a lot of ram either.  So, what is a easy to install
> distro that has KDE4, Seamonkey, gtkam, GIMP and such?  I want something
> easy because I want to install and leave it be until he can get a new
> rig built.  Then I'll be installing Gentoo for a more permanent install.
> 
> I looked at Kubuntu, Ubuntu and tried to install Mandriva.  Mandriva got
> to a point and just froze up on me.  I tried three times and it did the
> same thing each time so no clue what is going on there.
> 
> Ideas?
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)
> 


If you want something carefree for a long time, you might want to look
at Scientific Linux. The name is a bit misleading. It is really just a
very nice RHEL clone developed at CERN, FermiLab et.al.

Bonus points for supporting their old versions till hell freezes over.
Just install one of the auxiliary repositories to get media codecs and
you have a full consumer distro with the stability of an enterprise
distro. They also have a nice and knowledgeable mailing list.

https://www.scientificlinux.org/

Regards,
Florian Philipp


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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Lorenzo Bandieri]

> So, what is a easy to install distro that has
> KDE4, Seamonkey, gtkam, GIMP and such?  I want something easy

Well, surely Kubuntu would be a nice choice, but can I suggest
OpenSuse? I installed it something like two years ago (I was curious)
and I liked it. It has a well-done KDE implementation.

Lorenzo

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Michael Schreckenbauer]

Am Donnerstag, 10. November 2011, 21:04:46 schrieb Lorenzo Bandieri:
> > So, what is a easy to install distro that has
> > KDE4, Seamonkey, gtkam, GIMP and such?  I want something easy
> 
> Well, surely Kubuntu would be a nice choice, but can I suggest
> OpenSuse? I installed it something like two years ago (I was curious)
> and I liked it. It has a well-done KDE implementation.

+1
there were some kubuntu versions with a really bad kde integration. I don't 
remember the details and afaik that has changed, but I never had any problems 
with OpenSuse. My parents-in-law use it and they seem to be very happy with 
it.

> Lorenzo

Best,
Michael

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Paul Hartman]

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is maybe a bit off topic but here goes.  I want to install Linux on my
> brothers rig.  The heat sink on the CPU is not much, OEM type.  I don't want
> to install Gentoo because of that and it is a older rig with a slow CPU and
> not a lot of ram either.  So, what is a easy to install distro that has
> KDE4, Seamonkey, gtkam, GIMP and such?  I want something easy because I want
> to install and leave it be until he can get a new rig built.  Then I'll be
> installing Gentoo for a more permanent install.

Since you're already familiar with Gentoo, I would take a look at
Sabayon. It's basically a binary Gentoo distro (and a gentoo overlay).
It comes preconfigured just like ubuntu or others so you don't need to
do anything, just install it and you'll have a working graphical
desktop and lots of software. Super easy and all of the configuration
is done Gentoo-style. They have GTK, KDE and XFCE versions to choose
from. I've only played with it briefly in a VM and tried the LiveDVD
on my laptop, but I believe you can even still use emerge and use
portage like you would in Gentoo.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Paul Hartman]

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Paul Hartman
<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> They have GTK, KDE and XFCE versions

Sorry for my mental slip... by GTK I meant Gnome :) And I left out E17 as well.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Pandu Poluan]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1659 bytes --]

On Nov 11, 2011 5:17 AM, "Paul Hartman" <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > This is maybe a bit off topic but here goes.  I want to install Linux
on my
> > brothers rig.  The heat sink on the CPU is not much, OEM type.  I don't
want
> > to install Gentoo because of that and it is a older rig with a slow CPU
and
> > not a lot of ram either.  So, what is a easy to install distro that has
> > KDE4, Seamonkey, gtkam, GIMP and such?  I want something easy because I
want
> > to install and leave it be until he can get a new rig built.  Then I'll
be
> > installing Gentoo for a more permanent install.
>
> Since you're already familiar with Gentoo, I would take a look at
> Sabayon. It's basically a binary Gentoo distro (and a gentoo overlay).

+1 on familiarity.

We all know about your (Dale's) daily, um, 'adventures' with Gentoo.

So, going Sabayon should be a relative walk in the park for you. We don't
really want to tax other Linux distro's mailing list, do we? ;-)

> It comes preconfigured just like ubuntu or others so you don't need to
> do anything, just install it and you'll have a working graphical
> desktop and lots of software. Super easy and all of the configuration
> is done Gentoo-style. They have GTK, KDE and XFCE versions to choose
> from. I've only played with it briefly in a VM and tried the LiveDVD
> on my laptop, but I believe you can even still use emerge and use
> portage like you would in Gentoo.
>

Indeed:

http://wiki.sabayon.org/index.php?title=FAQ#Should_I_use_Sabayon_as_a_source-based_or_binary_based_distribution.3F

Rgds,

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[J. Roeleveld]

On Thu, November 10, 2011 8:03 pm, Dale wrote:

<SNIPPED>

> Any tips or tricks on Kubuntu anyone?  Sort of a basic 'this is how you
> update/install something for idiots' type thing.  lol

I think Sabayon would be a better option, but if you really want to go
with *buntu/debian:

- Install <X>
# sudo apt-get install <X>

- Update repository:
# sudo apt-get update

- Upgrade system:
# sudo apt-get upgrade

For "major" upgrades, you need to change to a different repository or
something like that.
I installed Gentoo on my netbook as I got really annoyed with the dodgy
way ubuntu deals with this.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[James Wall]

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Pandu Poluan <pandu@poluan.info> wrote:
>
> On Nov 11, 2011 5:17 AM, "Paul Hartman" <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > This is maybe a bit off topic but here goes.  I want to install Linux on
>> > my
>> > brothers rig.  The heat sink on the CPU is not much, OEM type.  I don't
>> > want
>> > to install Gentoo because of that and it is a older rig with a slow CPU
>> > and
>> > not a lot of ram either.  So, what is a easy to install distro that has
>> > KDE4, Seamonkey, gtkam, GIMP and such?  I want something easy because I
>> > want
>> > to install and leave it be until he can get a new rig built.  Then I'll
>> > be
>> > installing Gentoo for a more permanent install.
>>
>> Since you're already familiar with Gentoo, I would take a look at
>> Sabayon. It's basically a binary Gentoo distro (and a gentoo overlay).
>
> +1 on familiarity.

When you are ready to go to gentoo just update make.conf with your
tweaks for the system (CFLAGS, USE, etc.) and run "emerge --sync;
emerge -ae world" and you will have gentoo installed and configured.

> We all know about your (Dale's) daily, um, 'adventures' with Gentoo.
>
> So, going Sabayon should be a relative walk in the park for you. We don't
> really want to tax other Linux distro's mailing list, do we? ;-)
>
>> It comes preconfigured just like ubuntu or others so you don't need to
>> do anything, just install it and you'll have a working graphical
>> desktop and lots of software. Super easy and all of the configuration
>> is done Gentoo-style. They have GTK, KDE and XFCE versions to choose
>> from. I've only played with it briefly in a VM and tried the LiveDVD
>> on my laptop, but I believe you can even still use emerge and use
>> portage like you would in Gentoo.
>>
>
> Indeed:
>
> http://wiki.sabayon.org/index.php?title=FAQ#Should_I_use_Sabayon_as_a_source-based_or_binary_based_distribution.3F
>
> Rgds,
>



-- 
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message. However, a large
number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[masterprometheus]

Dale wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> This is maybe a bit off topic but here goes.  I want to install Linux 
on
> my brothers rig.  The heat sink on the CPU is not much, OEM type.  I
> don't want to install Gentoo because of that and it is a older rig with
> a slow CPU and not a lot of ram either.  So, what is a easy to install
> distro that has KDE4, Seamonkey, gtkam, GIMP and such?  I want 
something
> easy because I want to install and leave it be until he can get a new
> rig built.  Then I'll be installing Gentoo for a more permanent 
install.
> 
> I looked at Kubuntu, Ubuntu and tried to install Mandriva.  Mandriva 
got
> to a point and just froze up on me.  I tried three times and it did the
> same thing each time so no clue what is going on there.
> 
> Ideas?

You can try Mepis and Pardus : 

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=mepis
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=pardus

Download pages
http://www.mepis.org/get-mepis
http://www.pardus.org.tr/en/pardus/indir/

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Lorenzo Bandieri wrote:
>> So, what is a easy to install distro that has
>> KDE4, Seamonkey, gtkam, GIMP and such?  I want something easy
> Well, surely Kubuntu would be a nice choice, but can I suggest
> OpenSuse? I installed it something like two years ago (I was curious)
> and I liked it. It has a well-done KDE implementation.
>
> Lorenzo
>
>

Thanks for all the replies.  Just picking a random message here.  Since 
I had already started the download of Kubuntu, I installed it.  It went 
pretty well considering I have never even seen it before.  I found, by 
pure blind luck, the installer program and found Seamonkey after some 
searching.  My brother seems to like everything just fine so now I got 
to work with my sis-n-law.  As long as facebook's games work, she will 
be happy.

Now to teach him how to update the thing.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> Now to teach him how to update the thing.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
>

I'll be interested in hearing how that goes. I had one weekend running
Ubuntu and ended up running away as fast as I could. It wasn't that it
was bad or didn't work, but that the management of it seemed so
different from any distro I'd run before that I didn't want to deal
with learning it. Let's see how that does for you.

Again, remembering I didn't really give it much of a chance - I was
running on a Power PC Mac Mini - two things that drove me mad were:

1) The basic install didn't tell me what the root password was.

2) All the management was done using sudo.

I couldn't get past the idea that if something went wrong that with no
root password what was I supposed to do? Now, I was absolutely sure at
the time there had to be a way to set that myself, maybe as simple as
sudo passwd - root or something like that, but I decided it just
wasn't for me and tossed the machine in the garage rather than deal
with it! :-)

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
> <SNIP>
>> Now to teach him how to update the thing.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>
>>
> I'll be interested in hearing how that goes. I had one weekend running
> Ubuntu and ended up running away as fast as I could. It wasn't that it
> was bad or didn't work, but that the management of it seemed so
> different from any distro I'd run before that I didn't want to deal
> with learning it. Let's see how that does for you.
>
> Again, remembering I didn't really give it much of a chance - I was
> running on a Power PC Mac Mini - two things that drove me mad were:
>
> 1) The basic install didn't tell me what the root password was.
>
> 2) All the management was done using sudo.
>
> I couldn't get past the idea that if something went wrong that with no
> root password what was I supposed to do? Now, I was absolutely sure at
> the time there had to be a way to set that myself, maybe as simple as
> sudo passwd - root or something like that, but I decided it just
> wasn't for me and tossed the machine in the garage rather than deal
> with it! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
>


I have noticed the same points you found.  I set up the user "cutie" 
during the install.  I logged in as cutie then did sudo su -.  That got 
me to root user.  Yeppie ! Then I did passwd and typed in a root 
password.  After that, I could login as root.  I don't like not having 
the root password set.

I don't use sudo on my rig so it sort of annoys me.  ;-)   I guess we 
have that in common.  lol

The update tool is GUI.  That's why I think he can do that himself.  A 
lot like winders in a way.  Heck, if this works well and that intfs 
thingy gets on my nerves, may use it myself.  :-(   I may have found my 
next distro.  I'm not leaving yet.  I'm going to give the inity thingy a 
shot, maybe two.  After that, kill shot.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 7:41 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
> I have noticed the same points you found.  I set up the user "cutie" during
> the install.  I logged in as cutie then did sudo su -.  That got me to root
> user.  Yeppie ! Then I did passwd and typed in a root password.  After that,
> I could login as root.  I don't like not having the root password set.
>
> I don't use sudo on my rig so it sort of annoys me.  ;-)   I guess we have
> that in common.  lol
>
> The update tool is GUI.  That's why I think he can do that himself.  A lot
> like winders in a way.  Heck, if this works well and that intfs thingy gets
> on my nerves, may use it myself.  :-(   I may have found my next distro.
>  I'm not leaving yet.  I'm going to give the inity thingy a shot, maybe two.
>  After that, kill shot.
>
> Dale

Yeah, I was pretty sure it must work normally if you either know what
to do or take the time to go learn. In my case I was essentially
deciding whether to bother with this really slow Mac Mini that I had
almost never used since I bought it (my worst PC purchase in 30 years)
or to essentially throw the thing away. In the end I opted for the
virtual trash can.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Lorenzo Bandieri]

>> I'll be interested in hearing how that goes. I had one weekend running
>> Ubuntu and ended up running away as fast as I could. It wasn't that it
>> was bad or didn't work, but that the management of it seemed so
>> different from any distro I'd run before that I didn't want to deal
>> with learning it. Let's see how that does for you.
>>
>> Again, remembering I didn't really give it much of a chance - I was
>> running on a Power PC Mac Mini - two things that drove me mad were:
>>
>> 1) The basic install didn't tell me what the root password was.
>>
>> 2) All the management was done using sudo.
>>
>> I couldn't get past the idea that if something went wrong that with no
>> root password what was I supposed to do? Now, I was absolutely sure at
>> the time there had to be a way to set that myself, maybe as simple as
>> sudo passwd - root or something like that, but I decided it just
>> wasn't for me and tossed the machine in the garage rather than deal
>> with it! :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>>
<SNIP>
>
> I don't use sudo on my rig so it sort of annoys me.  ;-)   I guess we have
> that in common.  lol
>
> The update tool is GUI.  That's why I think he can do that himself.  A lot
> like winders in a way.  Heck, if this works well and that intfs thingy gets
> on my nerves, may use it myself.  :-(   I may have found my next distro.
>  I'm not leaving yet.  I'm going to give the inity thingy a shot, maybe two.
>  After that, kill shot.
>
> Dale
>

I hate sudo, I never got the point in using it - and actually it is
one of the thing that makes Ubuntu annoying to me. I'm not the only
one, then! :D

Howerer, I think that Ubuntu is one of the "best" distro for beginners
(especially those coming from windows/os x), so it should work well
for your brother. Basically, it is absolutely possible to run and
update the distro without ever touching the terminal... Me, I find it
too "constraining".

In regard to Sabayon, last time I tried it, I had the impression it
was buggy, but it was three years ago... Actually, I'd like to give it
a try one of these days :)

Best regards,
Lorenzo

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Lorenzo Bandieri wrote:
>>> I'll be interested in hearing how that goes. I had one weekend running
>>> Ubuntu and ended up running away as fast as I could. It wasn't that it
>>> was bad or didn't work, but that the management of it seemed so
>>> different from any distro I'd run before that I didn't want to deal
>>> with learning it. Let's see how that does for you.
>>>
>>> Again, remembering I didn't really give it much of a chance - I was
>>> running on a Power PC Mac Mini - two things that drove me mad were:
>>>
>>> 1) The basic install didn't tell me what the root password was.
>>>
>>> 2) All the management was done using sudo.
>>>
>>> I couldn't get past the idea that if something went wrong that with no
>>> root password what was I supposed to do? Now, I was absolutely sure at
>>> the time there had to be a way to set that myself, maybe as simple as
>>> sudo passwd - root or something like that, but I decided it just
>>> wasn't for me and tossed the machine in the garage rather than deal
>>> with it! :-)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Mark
>>>
> <SNIP>
>> I don't use sudo on my rig so it sort of annoys me.  ;-)   I guess we have
>> that in common.  lol
>>
>> The update tool is GUI.  That's why I think he can do that himself.  A lot
>> like winders in a way.  Heck, if this works well and that intfs thingy gets
>> on my nerves, may use it myself.  :-(   I may have found my next distro.
>>   I'm not leaving yet.  I'm going to give the inity thingy a shot, maybe two.
>>   After that, kill shot.
>>
>> Dale
>>
> I hate sudo, I never got the point in using it - and actually it is
> one of the thing that makes Ubuntu annoying to me. I'm not the only
> one, then! :D
>
> Howerer, I think that Ubuntu is one of the "best" distro for beginners
> (especially those coming from windows/os x), so it should work well
> for your brother. Basically, it is absolutely possible to run and
> update the distro without ever touching the terminal... Me, I find it
> too "constraining".
>
> In regard to Sabayon, last time I tried it, I had the impression it
> was buggy, but it was three years ago... Actually, I'd like to give it
> a try one of these days :)
>
> Best regards,
> Lorenzo
>
>

Us Gentooers are to much alike.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Alan McKinnon]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:49:54 +0100
Lorenzo Bandieri <lorenzo.bandieri@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> I'll be interested in hearing how that goes. I had one weekend
> >> running Ubuntu and ended up running away as fast as I could. It
> >> wasn't that it was bad or didn't work, but that the management of
> >> it seemed so different from any distro I'd run before that I
> >> didn't want to deal with learning it. Let's see how that does for
> >> you.
> >>
> >> Again, remembering I didn't really give it much of a chance - I was
> >> running on a Power PC Mac Mini - two things that drove me mad were:
> >>
> >> 1) The basic install didn't tell me what the root password was.
> >>
> >> 2) All the management was done using sudo.
> >>
> >> I couldn't get past the idea that if something went wrong that
> >> with no root password what was I supposed to do? Now, I was
> >> absolutely sure at the time there had to be a way to set that
> >> myself, maybe as simple as sudo passwd - root or something like
> >> that, but I decided it just wasn't for me and tossed the machine
> >> in the garage rather than deal with it! :-)
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Mark
> >>
> <SNIP>
> >
> > I don't use sudo on my rig so it sort of annoys me.  ;-)   I guess
> > we have that in common.  lol
> >
> > The update tool is GUI.  That's why I think he can do that himself.
> >  A lot like winders in a way.  Heck, if this works well and that
> > intfs thingy gets on my nerves, may use it myself.  :-(   I may
> > have found my next distro. I'm not leaving yet.  I'm going to give
> > the inity thingy a shot, maybe two. After that, kill shot.
> >
> > Dale
> >
> 
> I hate sudo, I never got the point in using it - and actually it is
> one of the thing that makes Ubuntu annoying to me. I'm not the only
> one, then! :D

Then you must be using a single-user machine. Like your own laptop or
desktop.

sudo is absolutely necessary on any multi-user machine unless you like
security holes.

Instead of bashing sudo, it's better to find out what problem it is
designed to solve, then determine if you have that problem. It does
have a point, and a very valuable one too, you just seem to not have
seen it yet.




-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 1428 bytes --]

On Friday 11 Nov 2011 07:37:56 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Thu, November 10, 2011 8:03 pm, Dale wrote:
> 
> <SNIPPED>
> 
> > Any tips or tricks on Kubuntu anyone?  Sort of a basic 'this is how you
> > update/install something for idiots' type thing.  lol
> 
> I think Sabayon would be a better option, but if you really want to go
> with *buntu/debian:
> 
> - Install <X>
> # sudo apt-get install <X>
> 
> - Update repository:
> # sudo apt-get update
> 
> - Upgrade system:
> # sudo apt-get upgrade
> 
> For "major" upgrades, you need to change to a different repository or
> something like that.
> I installed Gentoo on my netbook as I got really annoyed with the dodgy
> way ubuntu deals with this.

Not to forget:

sudo apt-get autoclean

and yes, you'll need to get to grips with the various repos to install 
packages outside the vanilla version of any distro.

I've installed Kubuntu on a laptop and a load of extra packages for web 
development.  Have not heard any complaints for at least a year now.  ;-)

A point to note:  Last time I used OpenSuse (must be 4 years ago or more) it 
did not seem to be as flexible as ?Ubuntu.  There were all sort of dependency 
problems if you veered off the beaten track.  Also back then there was no way 
to upgrade to the later version.  It was a matter of reinstalling and 
reconfiguring.  Things may have moved on since.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Lorenzo Bandieri]

> Then you must be using a single-user machine. Like your own laptop or
> desktop.
>
> sudo is absolutely necessary on any multi-user machine unless you like
> security holes.
>
> Instead of bashing sudo, it's better to find out what problem it is
> designed to solve, then determine if you have that problem. It does
> have a point, and a very valuable one too, you just seem to not have
> seen it yet.

Yes, Alan, you're right, I'm on a single-user machine. I apologize, I
should have made it clear. Indeed, I can see that in a multi-users
machine sudo is useful. I just don't agree on the Ubuntu policy of
using sudo instead of root by default, assuming that it provides more
security. I don't want to start a flame war about sudo vs su, sorry if
I sounded rough!

Best regards,
Lorenzo

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Michael Mol]

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday 11 Nov 2011 07:37:56 J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> On Thu, November 10, 2011 8:03 pm, Dale wrote:
>>
>> <SNIPPED>
>>
>> > Any tips or tricks on Kubuntu anyone?  Sort of a basic 'this is how you
>> > update/install something for idiots' type thing.  lol
>>
>> I think Sabayon would be a better option, but if you really want to go
>> with *buntu/debian:
>>
>> - Install <X>
>> # sudo apt-get install <X>
>>
>> - Update repository:
>> # sudo apt-get update
>>
>> - Upgrade system:
>> # sudo apt-get upgrade
>>
>> For "major" upgrades, you need to change to a different repository or
>> something like that.
>> I installed Gentoo on my netbook as I got really annoyed with the dodgy
>> way ubuntu deals with this.
>
> Not to forget:
>
> sudo apt-get autoclean
>
> and yes, you'll need to get to grips with the various repos to install
> packages outside the vanilla version of any distro.
>
> I've installed Kubuntu on a laptop and a load of extra packages for web
> development.  Have not heard any complaints for at least a year now.  ;-)
>
> A point to note:  Last time I used OpenSuse (must be 4 years ago or more) it
> did not seem to be as flexible as ?Ubuntu.  There were all sort of dependency
> problems if you veered off the beaten track.  Also back then there was no way
> to upgrade to the later version.  It was a matter of reinstalling and
> reconfiguring.  Things may have moved on since.

Never used OpenSuse, but I've spent about ten years bouncing between
Ubuntu and Debian. (I started using Ubuntu around either 5.04 or 6.06.
Not sure.)

While Ubuntu is usually among the first of the binary distros to
support new things, it's been suffering more and more (and more!)
decay when you wander off the beaten path. Over the last couple years,
it's tended toward beating its own path, so knowledge and skills are
becoming less portable if you're bouncing between Ubuntu and other
distros, or even between Ubuntu and Debian.

It's nice if you want something up and running fast, it's friendly to
newbies, and it's friendly to some kinds of administrators, but it's
*not* friendly to power users.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:49:54 +0100
> Lorenzo Bandieri<lorenzo.bandieri@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> I don't use sudo on my rig so it sort of annoys me.  ;-)   I guess
>>> we have that in common.  lol
>>>
>>> The update tool is GUI.  That's why I think he can do that himself.
>>>   A lot like winders in a way.  Heck, if this works well and that
>>> intfs thingy gets on my nerves, may use it myself.  :-(   I may
>>> have found my next distro. I'm not leaving yet.  I'm going to give
>>> the inity thingy a shot, maybe two. After that, kill shot.
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>> I hate sudo, I never got the point in using it - and actually it is
>> one of the thing that makes Ubuntu annoying to me. I'm not the only
>> one, then! :D
> Then you must be using a single-user machine. Like your own laptop or
> desktop.
>
> sudo is absolutely necessary on any multi-user machine unless you like
> security holes.
>
> Instead of bashing sudo, it's better to find out what problem it is
> designed to solve, then determine if you have that problem. It does
> have a point, and a very valuable one too, you just seem to not have
> seen it yet.
>

Mine is a single user machine both for me and my brother.  That said, if 
I did have other users on my machine, they wouldn't even be in the wheel 
group so sudo wouldn't happen either.  They would be able to do user 
things but nothing else.

That said, I know sudo fixes some problems and has its reason for 
existing.  Me, its just like the init thingy, I haven't found a good 
reason yet to have one so no need adding it.  That will likely change 
shortly but hopefully not today.  I found a workaround on kubuntu tho.  
Just set the root password so you can login as root and carry on.  ;-)   
Even I have a gas pocket in my brain from time to time.  :-D

Cheer up Alan.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Michael Mol wrote:
> Never used OpenSuse, but I've spent about ten years bouncing between 
> Ubuntu and Debian. (I started using Ubuntu around either 5.04 or 6.06. 
> Not sure.) While Ubuntu is usually among the first of the binary 
> distros to support new things, it's been suffering more and more (and 
> more!) decay when you wander off the beaten path. Over the last couple 
> years, it's tended toward beating its own path, so knowledge and 
> skills are becoming less portable if you're bouncing between Ubuntu 
> and other distros, or even between Ubuntu and Debian. It's nice if you 
> want something up and running fast, it's friendly to newbies, and it's 
> friendly to some kinds of administrators, but it's *not* friendly to 
> power users. 

I think this will suite my brother tho.  They check email, weather and 
the news and my sis-n-law plays games on facebook.  They both play card 
games which Linux has quite a few of.  So, this is really what they 
need.  Of course, if I find something better, I can backup the /home 
directory and install something else then restore the /home and carry on 
with something new.

This is the beauty of Linux.

If I copy the WHOLE .mozilla directory from winders to Linux, won't that 
keep all their settings, passwords, bookmarks and email?  I have done 
that on Linux a couple times with little problems.  I'm just not sure 
about winders to Linux.

Thanks.  Ya'll gave me some good ideas for both now and in the future if 
I need to try something else.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Florian Philipp]

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Am 11.11.2011 21:25, schrieb Dale:
> 
> If I copy the WHOLE .mozilla directory from winders to Linux, won't that
> keep all their settings, passwords, bookmarks and email?  I have done
> that on Linux a couple times with little problems.  I'm just not sure
> about winders to Linux.
> 

I suggest using Mozilla's sync feature. It is dead simple and allegedly
secure.

Regards,
Florian Philipp


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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Alan McKinnon]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:19:45 -0600
Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> ine is a single user machine both for me and my brother.  That said,
> if I did have other users on my machine, they wouldn't even be in the
> wheel group so sudo wouldn't happen either.  They would be able to do
> user things but nothing else.
> 
> That said, I know sudo fixes some problems and has its reason for 
> existing.  Me, its just like the init thingy, I haven't found a good 
> reason yet to have one so no need adding it.  That will likely change 
> shortly but hopefully not today.  I found a workaround on kubuntu
> tho. Just set the root password so you can login as root and carry
> on.  ;-) Even I have a gas pocket in my brain from time to time.  :-D
> 


Yeah, that's the way you do it.

I don't have sudo on my own machines for the same reason
(except the Ubuntu ones, I can't be bothered removing it) but at work
I'd be slaughtered by Risk if I didn't have it.

Without sudo the only way to let users do anything more than what
regular users can do is to give them the root password. Seeing as the
root password is randomly generated, forgotten, and kept in a sealed
envelope in a safe, that's not really an option. Sudo lets me
fine-grain control exactly what users can do, like let the web team
install and update sites, let team leaders update team crontabs, and
more. Plus everything is logged. If some chop deletes important files,
I want a timestamped record telling me who and when :-)

So in a corporate environment, sudo is an absolute necessity.

It's also very useful for personal machines,
especially newbies. Having to enter their password every time
encourages them to think about what they are running and treat root
privs with a little more respect. It doesn't always work out though - I
still have idiots on the above-mentioned multi-user machines who
blindly run "apt-get install gnome" on a SuSE host. At least they can't
argue when I call them on it (due to the magic feature called "logs")

-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Alan McKinnon]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:10:27 +0100
Lorenzo Bandieri <lorenzo.bandieri@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Then you must be using a single-user machine. Like your own laptop
> > or desktop.
> >
> > sudo is absolutely necessary on any multi-user machine unless you
> > like security holes.
> >
> > Instead of bashing sudo, it's better to find out what problem it is
> > designed to solve, then determine if you have that problem. It does
> > have a point, and a very valuable one too, you just seem to not have
> > seen it yet.
> 
> Yes, Alan, you're right, I'm on a single-user machine. I apologize, I
> should have made it clear. 

No worries :-)

> Indeed, I can see that in a multi-users
> machine sudo is useful. I just don't agree on the Ubuntu policy of
> using sudo instead of root by default, assuming that it provides more
> security. I don't want to start a flame war about sudo vs su, sorry if
> I sounded rough!

Well, it's worth discussing, as sudo on Ubuntu *does* improve security,
but you have to think a little about how first.

It's not IT security it provides, it's human security. As I mentioned
to Dale, it encourages people to think a little more about what they
are doing. It's not perfect, but nothing is.

Unix has always been very strong on initial authentication and rather
weak on authorization thereafter. If you can prove you know the root
password, you get the keys to the kingdom until the end of time
(defined as logout) - it's an all or nothing approach which obviously
cannot possibly fit RealLife.

sudo may or may not implement an authorization scheme that's suitable
for use, but the need for it is undeniable. It's easy to get
authorization completely wrong and go over the top, take SE-Linux. It's
very design and complexity encourages sysadmins to find ways to switch
it off! And they mostly do - with a single boot parameter in grub....


-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Alan McKinnon]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:14:57 -0500
Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:

> Never used OpenSuse, but I've spent about ten years bouncing between
> Ubuntu and Debian. (I started using Ubuntu around either 5.04 or 6.06.
> Not sure.)
> 
> While Ubuntu is usually among the first of the binary distros to
> support new things, it's been suffering more and more (and more!)
> decay when you wander off the beaten path. Over the last couple years,
> it's tended toward beating its own path, so knowledge and skills are
> becoming less portable if you're bouncing between Ubuntu and other
> distros, or even between Ubuntu and Debian.
> 
> It's nice if you want something up and running fast, it's friendly to
> newbies, and it's friendly to some kinds of administrators, but it's
> *not* friendly to power users.
> 

If my ftp server stats are anything to go by, Linux Mint is the one
power users are targeting right now. Number of downloads is a
significant % of number of Ubuntu downloads.

Myself, I've given Ubuntu a decent 10 week trial. And I'm sick of it
already. I'm not even using 11.04, this is 10.10 with classic gnome 2
and I miss Gentoo so much it hurts :-)

As soon as my new laptop arrives, Gentoo is going right on it. I'm
going to miss this Samsung Series 9 Airbook-knockoff hardware but the
software on it will get deep sixed with nary a backward glance...

-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Grant Edwards]

On 2011-11-11, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
><SNIP>
>>
>> Now to teach him how to update the thing.
>
> I'll be interested in hearing how that goes. I had one weekend running
> Ubuntu and ended up running away as fast as I could.

I use Ubuntu occasionally, and it's always a teeth-gritting,
hair-pulling experience.  For me, it's the most non-intuitive distro
I've ever used.  And it is the "Ubuntu" part I can't grok, not the
Debian part -- I never had any problems with Debian.  I ran Debian on
a server at home for years, and even created a Debian subset distro
for a product many years back.

> It wasn't that it was bad or didn't work, but that the management of
> it seemed so different from any distro I'd run before that I didn't
> want to deal with learning it.

Exactly.  Anytime you want to do something administrative, it's always
an ordeal unless you can just skip the "Ubuntu" stuff and do the
equivalent of editing /etc/network/interfaces (I never could get the
GUI network config thingy to work).

> Let's see how that does for you.
>
> Again, remembering I didn't really give it much of a chance - I was
> running on a Power PC Mac Mini - two things that drove me mad were:
>
> 1) The basic install didn't tell me what the root password was.

There isn't one by default.  The first thing you do after an Ubuntu
install is always set the root password:

  $ sudo bash
  # passwd  

The next thing you do is configure it to boot into text mode with all
the kernel messages visible.

Then you've got something that's almost tolerable.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I own seven-eighths of
                                  at               all the artists in downtown
                              gmail.com            Burbank!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 2063 bytes --]

On Friday 11 Nov 2011 22:02:40 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2011-11-11, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> ><SNIP>
> >
> >> Now to teach him how to update the thing.
> > 
> > I'll be interested in hearing how that goes. I had one weekend running
> > Ubuntu and ended up running away as fast as I could.
> 
> I use Ubuntu occasionally, and it's always a teeth-gritting,
> hair-pulling experience.  For me, it's the most non-intuitive distro
> I've ever used.  And it is the "Ubuntu" part I can't grok, not the
> Debian part -- I never had any problems with Debian.  I ran Debian on
> a server at home for years, and even created a Debian subset distro
> for a product many years back.
> 
> > It wasn't that it was bad or didn't work, but that the management of
> > it seemed so different from any distro I'd run before that I didn't
> > want to deal with learning it.
> 
> Exactly.  Anytime you want to do something administrative, it's always
> an ordeal unless you can just skip the "Ubuntu" stuff and do the
> equivalent of editing /etc/network/interfaces (I never could get the
> GUI network config thingy to work).
> 
> > Let's see how that does for you.
> > 
> > Again, remembering I didn't really give it much of a chance - I was
> > running on a Power PC Mac Mini - two things that drove me mad were:
> > 
> > 1) The basic install didn't tell me what the root password was.
> 
> There isn't one by default.  The first thing you do after an Ubuntu
> install is always set the root password:
> 
>   $ sudo bash
>   # passwd
> 
> The next thing you do is configure it to boot into text mode with all
> the kernel messages visible.
> 
> Then you've got something that's almost tolerable.

How do you that?!!!

Pressing F2 or Esc on the Ubuntu GRUB2 splash just crashes the system.  I 
think I also tried editting the default GRUB2 file, but couldn't get it to be 
more verbose.  Is there some trick I'm missing?
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Florian Philipp wrote:
> Am 11.11.2011 21:25, schrieb Dale:
>> If I copy the WHOLE .mozilla directory from winders to Linux, won't that
>> keep all their settings, passwords, bookmarks and email?  I have done
>> that on Linux a couple times with little problems.  I'm just not sure
>> about winders to Linux.
>>
> I suggest using Mozilla's sync feature. It is dead simple and allegedly
> secure.
>
> Regards,
> Florian Philipp
>

I wasn't aware it had that.  I looked on mine here and can't find it.  
Where is it?  This would be awesome if it works.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:19:45 -0600
> Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> ine is a single user machine both for me and my brother.  That said,
>> if I did have other users on my machine, they wouldn't even be in the
>> wheel group so sudo wouldn't happen either.  They would be able to do
>> user things but nothing else.
>>
>> That said, I know sudo fixes some problems and has its reason for
>> existing.  Me, its just like the init thingy, I haven't found a good
>> reason yet to have one so no need adding it.  That will likely change
>> shortly but hopefully not today.  I found a workaround on kubuntu
>> tho. Just set the root password so you can login as root and carry
>> on.  ;-) Even I have a gas pocket in my brain from time to time.  :-D
>>
>
> Yeah, that's the way you do it.
>
> I don't have sudo on my own machines for the same reason
> (except the Ubuntu ones, I can't be bothered removing it) but at work
> I'd be slaughtered by Risk if I didn't have it.
>
> Without sudo the only way to let users do anything more than what
> regular users can do is to give them the root password. Seeing as the
> root password is randomly generated, forgotten, and kept in a sealed
> envelope in a safe, that's not really an option. Sudo lets me
> fine-grain control exactly what users can do, like let the web team
> install and update sites, let team leaders update team crontabs, and
> more. Plus everything is logged. If some chop deletes important files,
> I want a timestamped record telling me who and when :-)
>
> So in a corporate environment, sudo is an absolute necessity.
>
> It's also very useful for personal machines,
> especially newbies. Having to enter their password every time
> encourages them to think about what they are running and treat root
> privs with a little more respect. It doesn't always work out though - I
> still have idiots on the above-mentioned multi-user machines who
> blindly run "apt-get install gnome" on a SuSE host. At least they can't
> argue when I call them on it (due to the magic feature called "logs")
>

Then I can see the benefits of sudo where they is a division of labor 
for sure.  I don't know how it works exactly but I knew it allowed 
regular users to run CERTAIN things that root as given them access to.  
I didn't know about the logs tho.  If I was running a server where there 
were several people doing different things that I would never be able to 
do alone, then sudo would be the tool.  I just hope I never have to 
worry about learning it TO much.  ;-)

Now to figure out why the windows in Kubuntu have no borders and no 
little X to close the window. < sighs >  I hate the little details.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Grant Edwards wrote:
> The next thing you do is configure it to boot into text mode with all 
> the kernel messages visible. Then you've got something that's almost 
> tolerable. 

< cough cough >  Care to share how you did that little trick?  I like to 
see the stuff scrolling up myself.

Is there a way after the install to add a Windoze OS to grub and all?  I 
unplugged the windoze drive to make sure it didn't mess that up OR I 
mess up something. So, grub, or some bootloader, is installed on the 
wrong drive in this case.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Florian Philipp]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 902 bytes --]

Am 12.11.2011 00:28, schrieb Dale:
> Florian Philipp wrote:
>> Am 11.11.2011 21:25, schrieb Dale:
>>> If I copy the WHOLE .mozilla directory from winders to Linux, won't that
>>> keep all their settings, passwords, bookmarks and email?  I have done
>>> that on Linux a couple times with little problems.  I'm just not sure
>>> about winders to Linux.
>>>
>> I suggest using Mozilla's sync feature. It is dead simple and allegedly
>> secure.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Florian Philipp
>>
> 
> I wasn't aware it had that.  I looked on mine here and can't find it. 
> Where is it?  This would be awesome if it works.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)
> 

Edit->Settings->Sync. There you can create a user account. If it is not
there, you are probably still running 3.6. Then you can install the
plugin here:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en/firefox/addon/firefox-sync/

Regards,
Florian Philipp


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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Florian Philipp]

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Am 12.11.2011 00:36, schrieb Dale:
[...]
> 
> Now to figure out why the windows in Kubuntu have no borders and no
> little X to close the window. < sighs >  I hate the little details.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)
> 

That is a typical symptom that the window manager is not running
(probably crashed while loading some fancy window decorations). Try to
execute `kwin` or `kwin --replace` in a terminal.

Regards,
Florian Philipp


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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Florian Philipp wrote:
> Am 12.11.2011 00:28, schrieb Dale:
>> Florian Philipp wrote:
>>> Am 11.11.2011 21:25, schrieb Dale:
>>>> If I copy the WHOLE .mozilla directory from winders to Linux, won't that
>>>> keep all their settings, passwords, bookmarks and email?  I have done
>>>> that on Linux a couple times with little problems.  I'm just not sure
>>>> about winders to Linux.
>>>>
>>> I suggest using Mozilla's sync feature. It is dead simple and allegedly
>>> secure.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Florian Philipp
>>>
>> I wasn't aware it had that.  I looked on mine here and can't find it.
>> Where is it?  This would be awesome if it works.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>
> Edit->Settings->Sync. There you can create a user account. If it is not
> there, you are probably still running 3.6. Then you can install the
> plugin here:
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en/firefox/addon/firefox-sync/
>
> Regards,
> Florian Philipp
>

Houston, we have a problem.  I'm using Seamonkey not Firefox.  Now I 
know why I couldn't find it.  lol  The email is the biggest thing I 
wanted to save.  Then again, their passwords would be nice too.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:19:45 -0600, Dale wrote:

> Mine is a single user machine both for me and my brother.  That said,
> if I did have other users on my machine, they wouldn't even be in the
> wheel group so sudo wouldn't happen either.  They would be able to do
> user things but nothing else.

What happens when there is that one thing they need to do that needs root
privileges? Do you give them the root password and let them do what they
want, or do you make that one operation available to them?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

              Windows XP took us to the edge of the cliff.
              With Windows Vista we took a big step forward.

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:10:27 +0100, Lorenzo Bandieri wrote:

> Yes, Alan, you're right, I'm on a single-user machine. I apologize, I
> should have made it clear. Indeed, I can see that in a multi-users
> machine sudo is useful. I just don't agree on the Ubuntu policy of
> using sudo instead of root by default, assuming that it provides more
> security.

Ubuntu is designed for Linux newbies, those conditioned to the Windows
way of working. Give them a root password and they will soon get fed up
with typing it whenever they need to do $something and just log into the
desktop as root. It is easy enough to enable root access in Ubuntu, but
you do have to work out how to break it for yourself.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Diarrhoea is hereditary, it runs in your genes.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:40:26 -0600, Dale wrote:

> > The next thing you do is configure it to boot into text mode with all 
> > the kernel messages visible. Then you've got something that's almost 
> > tolerable.   
> 
> < cough cough >  Care to share how you did that little trick?  I like
> to see the stuff scrolling up myself.

Hold Shift during boot to bring up the GRUB menu, press E to edit, remove
the splash and quiet options and press Ctrl-X to boot. It's almost the
same as legacy GRUB, with just enough changes to confuse people :(

Tp make it permanent, edit /etc/default/grub, remove the splash and quiet
options, save the file and run grub2-mkconfig (or the wrapper script that
Ubuntu provide, update-grub?).

> Is there a way after the install to add a Windoze OS to grub and all?
> I unplugged the windoze drive to make sure it didn't mess that up OR I 
> mess up something. So, grub, or some bootloader, is installed on the 
> wrong drive in this case.

Plug the drive back in and run grub2-mkconfig. It will generate a new
menu with a Windows option. No manual editing needed.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"We are Microsoft of Borg. Prepare to...."
The application "assimilation" has caused a General Protection Fault
and must exit immediately.

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:47:31 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> If my ftp server stats are anything to go by, Linux Mint is the one
> power users are targeting right now. Number of downloads is a
> significant % of number of Ubuntu downloads.

How much of that is a knee-jerk reaction to Unity, Mint being seen as
"Ubuntu without the new-fangled stuff we don't want to try to understand".


-- 
Neil Bothwick

This universe is sold by mass, not by volume.
Some expansion may have occurred during shipment

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Florian Philipp]

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Am 12.11.2011 01:27, schrieb Neil Bothwick:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:19:45 -0600, Dale wrote:
> 
>> Mine is a single user machine both for me and my brother.  That said,
>> if I did have other users on my machine, they wouldn't even be in the
>> wheel group so sudo wouldn't happen either.  They would be able to do
>> user things but nothing else.
> 
> What happens when there is that one thing they need to do that needs root
> privileges? Do you give them the root password and let them do what they
> want, or do you make that one operation available to them?
> 
> 

SETUID bit like /bin/ping or sudo itself? That being said, I'd also use
sudo unless the usage is so frequent that the constant password typing
becomes a pain.

Regards,
Florian Philipp


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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:45:23 +0100, Florian Philipp wrote:

> > What happens when there is that one thing they need to do that needs
> > root privileges? Do you give them the root password and let them do
> > what they want, or do you make that one operation available to them?

> SETUID bit like /bin/ping or sudo itself? That being said, I'd also use
> sudo unless the usage is so frequent that the constant password typing
> becomes a pain.

SETUID enables it for everyone, not just the user in question.

You can set sudo to allow specified commands to be executed without a
password.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:10:27 +0100, Lorenzo Bandieri wrote:
>
>> Yes, Alan, you're right, I'm on a single-user machine. I apologize, I
>> should have made it clear. Indeed, I can see that in a multi-users
>> machine sudo is useful. I just don't agree on the Ubuntu policy of
>> using sudo instead of root by default, assuming that it provides more
>> security.
> Ubuntu is designed for Linux newbies, those conditioned to the Windows
> way of working. Give them a root password and they will soon get fed up
> with typing it whenever they need to do $something and just log into the
> desktop as root. It is easy enough to enable root access in Ubuntu, but
> you do have to work out how to break it for yourself.
>
>

I worked it out then.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:19:45 -0600, Dale wrote:
>
>> Mine is a single user machine both for me and my brother.  That said,
>> if I did have other users on my machine, they wouldn't even be in the
>> wheel group so sudo wouldn't happen either.  They would be able to do
>> user things but nothing else.
> What happens when there is that one thing they need to do that needs root
> privileges? Do you give them the root password and let them do what they
> want, or do you make that one operation available to them?
>
>

I would do it myself.  I don't let anyone mess with my OS.  I might let 
someone surf the net with my rig or use OOo or something but not the OS 
itself.

They would get over it I'm sure.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:40:26 -0600, Dale wrote:
>
>>> The next thing you do is configure it to boot into text mode with all
>>> the kernel messages visible. Then you've got something that's almost
>>> tolerable.
>> <  cough cough>   Care to share how you did that little trick?  I like
>> to see the stuff scrolling up myself.
> Hold Shift during boot to bring up the GRUB menu, press E to edit, remove
> the splash and quiet options and press Ctrl-X to boot. It's almost the
> same as legacy GRUB, with just enough changes to confuse people :(
>
> Tp make it permanent, edit /etc/default/grub, remove the splash and quiet
> options, save the file and run grub2-mkconfig (or the wrapper script that
> Ubuntu provide, update-grub?).
>
>> Is there a way after the install to add a Windoze OS to grub and all?
>> I unplugged the windoze drive to make sure it didn't mess that up OR I
>> mess up something. So, grub, or some bootloader, is installed on the
>> wrong drive in this case.
> Plug the drive back in and run grub2-mkconfig. It will generate a new
> menu with a Windows option. No manual editing needed.
>
>

Oh nooooooooo.  It can't be that easy.  O_O  I'm going to screw 
something up you watch.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-)

Oh, how do I boot it the first time tho?  When I plug the windoze drive 
up, there won't be a grub.  Yet anyway.  Hmmmmm.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[James Wall]

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:40:26 -0600, Dale wrote:
>>
>>>> The next thing you do is configure it to boot into text mode with all
>>>> the kernel messages visible. Then you've got something that's almost
>>>> tolerable.
>>>
>>> <  cough cough>   Care to share how you did that little trick?  I like
>>> to see the stuff scrolling up myself.
>>
>> Hold Shift during boot to bring up the GRUB menu, press E to edit, remove
>> the splash and quiet options and press Ctrl-X to boot. It's almost the
>> same as legacy GRUB, with just enough changes to confuse people :(
>>
>> Tp make it permanent, edit /etc/default/grub, remove the splash and quiet
>> options, save the file and run grub2-mkconfig (or the wrapper script that
>> Ubuntu provide, update-grub?).
>>
>>> Is there a way after the install to add a Windoze OS to grub and all?
>>> I unplugged the windoze drive to make sure it didn't mess that up OR I
>>> mess up something. So, grub, or some bootloader, is installed on the
>>> wrong drive in this case.
>>
>> Plug the drive back in and run grub2-mkconfig. It will generate a new
>> menu with a Windows option. No manual editing needed.
>>
>>
>
> Oh nooooooooo.  It can't be that easy.  O_O  I'm going to screw something up
> you watch.  lol
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
> Oh, how do I boot it the first time tho?  When I plug the windoze drive up,
> there won't be a grub.  Yet anyway.  Hmmmmm.
>
>
Boot off the Ubuntu disc and chroot to the new install to run the commands.


-- 
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message. However, a large
number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Florian Philipp]

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Am 12.11.2011 02:02, schrieb Neil Bothwick:
> On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:45:23 +0100, Florian Philipp wrote:
> 
>>> What happens when there is that one thing they need to do that needs
>>> root privileges? Do you give them the root password and let them do
>>> what they want, or do you make that one operation available to them?
> 
>> SETUID bit like /bin/ping or sudo itself? That being said, I'd also use
>> sudo unless the usage is so frequent that the constant password typing
>> becomes a pain.
> 
> SETUID enables it for everyone, not just the user in question.
> 
> You can set sudo to allow specified commands to be executed without a
> password.
> 
> 

Well, you can limit execution to a single group. Some quick results from
`find`:

-rws--x--- 1 root messagebus 318656 23. Okt 10:44
/usr/libexec/dbus-daemon-launch-helper
-rws--x--- 1 root squid 22824 2. Nov 20:26 /usr/libexec/squid/ncsa_auth
-rws--x--- 1 root squid 18720 2. Nov 20:26 /usr/libexec/squid/pam_auth

Regards,
Florian Philipp


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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Mick]

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On Saturday 12 Nov 2011 00:42:31 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:47:31 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > If my ftp server stats are anything to go by, Linux Mint is the one
> > power users are targeting right now. Number of downloads is a
> > significant % of number of Ubuntu downloads.
> 
> How much of that is a knee-jerk reaction to Unity, Mint being seen as
> "Ubuntu without the new-fangled stuff we don't want to try to understand".

After 5 minutes on my nieces' PC with a new Ubuntu Unity installation I had to 
switch off the machine and remove myself from the room until I calmed down.  
The swearing was too much for the family to bear!  ;-)

That said, the nieces seem completely at home with Unity and they like it more 
than the classic Ubuntu Gnome GUI.  Tut, tut!  Kids!  I guess they will also 
like the MSWindows 8 GUI next.  </sigh>
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:05:39 -0600, Dale wrote:

> >> Is there a way after the install to add a Windoze OS to grub and all?
> >> I unplugged the windoze drive to make sure it didn't mess that up OR
> >> I mess up something. So, grub, or some bootloader, is installed on
> >> the wrong drive in this case.  
> > Plug the drive back in and run grub2-mkconfig. It will generate a new
> > menu with a Windows option. No manual editing needed.

> Oh nooooooooo.  It can't be that easy.  O_O  I'm going to screw 
> something up you watch.  lol

> Oh, how do I boot it the first time tho?  When I plug the windoze drive 
> up, there won't be a grub.  Yet anyway.  Hmmmmm.

Of course there is, as long as the BIOS is set to boot from the Linux
disc, GRUB is there and waiting to boot Linux. Run grub2-mkconfig to
generate a new config for the existing GRUB, with Windows included.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

CONGRSS.SYS corruptd... Re-boot Washington D.C? (Y/N)

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 00:42:31 +0000
Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:47:31 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> > If my ftp server stats are anything to go by, Linux Mint is the one
> > power users are targeting right now. Number of downloads is a
> > significant % of number of Ubuntu downloads.
> 
> How much of that is a knee-jerk reaction to Unity, Mint being seen as
> "Ubuntu without the new-fangled stuff we don't want to try to
> understand".

If the contents of my inbox are anything to go by, then the answer is
"quite a lot".

The common thread lately is that people using Mint do not want to
change just because for no good reason. Can't argue with that - gnome2
ain't broke so gnome3 isn't the fix. The solution is a fork.


-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 22:44:08 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> The common thread lately is that people using Mint do not want to
> change just because for no good reason. Can't argue with that - gnome2
> ain't broke so gnome3 isn't the fix. The solution is a fork.

Deja Vu, or should that be Keja Vu?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Dale wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is maybe a bit off topic but here goes.  I want to install Linux 
> on my brothers rig.  The heat sink on the CPU is not much, OEM type.  
> I don't want to install Gentoo because of that and it is a older rig 
> with a slow CPU and not a lot of ram either.  So, what is a easy to 
> install distro that has KDE4, Seamonkey, gtkam, GIMP and such?  I want 
> something easy because I want to install and leave it be until he can 
> get a new rig built.  Then I'll be installing Gentoo for a more 
> permanent install.
>
> I looked at Kubuntu, Ubuntu and tried to install Mandriva.  Mandriva 
> got to a point and just froze up on me.  I tried three times and it 
> did the same thing each time so no clue what is going on there.
>
> Ideas?
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>


One more question.  What is a easy to install but WELL tested and STABLE 
binary distro?  I'm thinking something that needs a update 2 or 3 times 
a year or something.  My brother is liking Linux a lot.  No more Norton 
to pop up and aggravate him and he can just surf wherever he wants for 
the most part.  Once I get his emails moved over, windoze is going to 
take a loooooong nap.  ;-)  When I plug up the windoze drive, he dreads it.

My sis-n-law is liking Kpat and I installed pysol today.  She likes 
farming on facebook and card games.  I think those two alone will keep 
her happy a long time.

Thoughts?

By the way, I have read some of the other messages but holding off on a 
reply in case something doesn't work like I want.  I did get grub to 
come up when booting by hitting the shift key.  Progress.  I forgot my 
notes tho.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Érico Porto]

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Install Ubuntu. It's easy to use, and doesn't need to be configured so
much. It's also friendly for beginners and has lots of references on the
web if something break. Also, it's normal look is prettier then Debian.

Érico V. Porto


On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dale wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is maybe a bit off topic but here goes.  I want to install Linux on
>> my brothers rig.  The heat sink on the CPU is not much, OEM type.  I don't
>> want to install Gentoo because of that and it is a older rig with a slow
>> CPU and not a lot of ram either.  So, what is a easy to install distro that
>> has KDE4, Seamonkey, gtkam, GIMP and such?  I want something easy because I
>> want to install and leave it be until he can get a new rig built.  Then
>> I'll be installing Gentoo for a more permanent install.
>>
>> I looked at Kubuntu, Ubuntu and tried to install Mandriva.  Mandriva got
>> to a point and just froze up on me.  I tried three times and it did the
>> same thing each time so no clue what is going on there.
>>
>> Ideas?
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>
>>
>
> One more question.  What is a easy to install but WELL tested and STABLE
> binary distro?  I'm thinking something that needs a update 2 or 3 times a
> year or something.  My brother is liking Linux a lot.  No more Norton to
> pop up and aggravate him and he can just surf wherever he wants for the
> most part.  Once I get his emails moved over, windoze is going to take a
> loooooong nap.  ;-)  When I plug up the windoze drive, he dreads it.
>
> My sis-n-law is liking Kpat and I installed pysol today.  She likes
> farming on facebook and card games.  I think those two alone will keep her
> happy a long time.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> By the way, I have read some of the other messages but holding off on a
> reply in case something doesn't work like I want.  I did get grub to come
> up when booting by hitting the shift key.  Progress.  I forgot my notes
> tho.  lol
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Érico Porto wrote:
> Install Ubuntu. It's easy to use, and doesn't need to be configured so 
> much. It's also friendly for beginners and has lots of references on 
> the web if something break. Also, it's normal look is 
> prettier then Debian.
>
> Érico V. Porto
>
>

Then I guess I did OK then.  I got Kubuntu installed which I guess is 
Ubuntu with KDE as a default.  It works good but just wanted to make 
sure I picked a good one.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Florian Philipp wrote:
> Am 12.11.2011 00:36, schrieb Dale:
> [...]
>> Now to figure out why the windows in Kubuntu have no borders and no
>> little X to close the window.<  sighs>   I hate the little details.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>
> That is a typical symptom that the window manager is not running
> (probably crashed while loading some fancy window decorations). Try to
> execute `kwin` or `kwin --replace` in a terminal.
>
> Regards,
> Florian Philipp
>

Well this is odd.  When I booted it this time, it worked fine.  The 
borders were back, the little X to close windows was there and I could 
switch desktops too.  Odd, usually if something is broke on Linux, it is 
broke until it is fixed.  Weird.

Thanks for the help but glad I didn't need it.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Lorenzo Bandieri]

> One more question.  What is a easy to install but WELL tested and STABLE
> binary distro?  I'm thinking something that needs a update 2 or 3 times a
> year or something.

If you want a *really* well tested and *really* stable linux binary
distro, Debian stable is your friend :D

I have a debian install on my home desktop (used by my sister and my
parents); I choosed debian basically because I didn't wanted to
bother: I just wanted to install and update once in a while. I'm
really happy with it.

Pros:
- stable
- tested
- once configured, requires minimal maintenance. Basically, all you
have to do is apt-get update && apt-get upgrade once in while. It'll
install only security fixes. No headaches, no massive breakage or
something. At least, this is my experience.
 - easy and fast installation

Cons:
- softwares tend to be outdated on stable. On my debian stable I have
Gnome 2.30.2, Firefox (iceweasel) 3.5.16, OpenOffice 3.2.1... Consider
that debian stable versions are released, on average, every two years.
- debian has its own way to do things. I had to get used to it...
- the default DE is gnome; if you want kde you have to install
yourself, and, needless to say, it is not the last version [1]

The biggest cons about debian stable is outdated software... If you
can cope with it/it is not a priority, give it a try.

Otherwise, the previous suggestions (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, OpenSUSE etc)
are all good choiches - stable, tested, up-to-date.

[1] http://packages.debian.org/en/squeeze/kde-full

Best regards,

Lorenzo

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Lorenzo Bandieri wrote:
>> One more question.  What is a easy to install but WELL tested and STABLE
>> binary distro?  I'm thinking something that needs a update 2 or 3 times a
>> year or something.
> If you want a *really* well tested and *really* stable linux binary
> distro, Debian stable is your friend :D
>
> I have a debian install on my home desktop (used by my sister and my
> parents); I choosed debian basically because I didn't wanted to
> bother: I just wanted to install and update once in a while. I'm
> really happy with it.
>
> Pros:
> - stable
> - tested
> - once configured, requires minimal maintenance. Basically, all you
> have to do is apt-get update&&  apt-get upgrade once in while. It'll
> install only security fixes. No headaches, no massive breakage or
> something. At least, this is my experience.
>   - easy and fast installation
>
> Cons:
> - softwares tend to be outdated on stable. On my debian stable I have
> Gnome 2.30.2, Firefox (iceweasel) 3.5.16, OpenOffice 3.2.1... Consider
> that debian stable versions are released, on average, every two years.
> - debian has its own way to do things. I had to get used to it...
> - the default DE is gnome; if you want kde you have to install
> yourself, and, needless to say, it is not the last version [1]
>
> The biggest cons about debian stable is outdated software... If you
> can cope with it/it is not a priority, give it a try.
>
> Otherwise, the previous suggestions (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, OpenSUSE etc)
> are all good choiches - stable, tested, up-to-date.
>
> [1] http://packages.debian.org/en/squeeze/kde-full
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lorenzo
>
>

Thanks.  Now I know the goods and bads about Debian.  If Kubuntu starts 
to slack off, I got a replacement to test.

Two years.  That's a good while.  It should be stable. lol

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Mick]

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On Sunday 13 Nov 2011 10:45:46 Lorenzo Bandieri wrote:
> > One more question.  What is a easy to install but WELL tested and STABLE
> > binary distro?  I'm thinking something that needs a update 2 or 3 times a
> > year or something.
> 
> If you want a *really* well tested and *really* stable linux binary
> distro, Debian stable is your friend :D
> 
> I have a debian install on my home desktop (used by my sister and my
> parents); I choosed debian basically because I didn't wanted to
> bother: I just wanted to install and update once in a while. I'm
> really happy with it.
> 
> Pros:
> - stable
> - tested
> - once configured, requires minimal maintenance. Basically, all you
> have to do is apt-get update && apt-get upgrade once in while. It'll
> install only security fixes. No headaches, no massive breakage or
> something. At least, this is my experience.
>  - easy and fast installation
> 
> Cons:
> - softwares tend to be outdated on stable. On my debian stable I have
> Gnome 2.30.2, Firefox (iceweasel) 3.5.16, OpenOffice 3.2.1... Consider
> that debian stable versions are released, on average, every two years.
> - debian has its own way to do things. I had to get used to it...
> - the default DE is gnome; if you want kde you have to install
> yourself, and, needless to say, it is not the last version [1]
> 
> The biggest cons about debian stable is outdated software... If you
> can cope with it/it is not a priority, give it a try.
> 
> Otherwise, the previous suggestions (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, OpenSUSE etc)
> are all good choiches - stable, tested, up-to-date.
> 
> [1] http://packages.debian.org/en/squeeze/kde-full

From what I've come across Ubuntu seems to be the only distro that has 
automatic upgrades - i.e. some sort of script which will upgrade your distro 
to the next version without having to completely reinstall.  I think I've been 
through one such upgrade cycle without any breakage.  Gentoo it ain't, but on 
the other hand I value this seamless upgrade of Ubuntu as one of its plusses 
compared to other distros which require a re-installation.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Binary install distro

[Florian Philipp]

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Am 13.11.2011 19:26, schrieb Mick:
> On Sunday 13 Nov 2011 10:45:46 Lorenzo Bandieri wrote:
>>> One more question.  What is a easy to install but WELL tested and STABLE
>>> binary distro?  I'm thinking something that needs a update 2 or 3 times a
>>> year or something.
>>
>> If you want a *really* well tested and *really* stable linux binary
>> distro, Debian stable is your friend :D
>>
>> I have a debian install on my home desktop (used by my sister and my
>> parents); I choosed debian basically because I didn't wanted to
>> bother: I just wanted to install and update once in a while. I'm
>> really happy with it.
>>
>> Pros:
>> - stable
>> - tested
>> - once configured, requires minimal maintenance. Basically, all you
>> have to do is apt-get update && apt-get upgrade once in while. It'll
>> install only security fixes. No headaches, no massive breakage or
>> something. At least, this is my experience.
>>  - easy and fast installation
>>
>> Cons:
>> - softwares tend to be outdated on stable. On my debian stable I have
>> Gnome 2.30.2, Firefox (iceweasel) 3.5.16, OpenOffice 3.2.1... Consider
>> that debian stable versions are released, on average, every two years.
>> - debian has its own way to do things. I had to get used to it...
>> - the default DE is gnome; if you want kde you have to install
>> yourself, and, needless to say, it is not the last version [1]
>>
>> The biggest cons about debian stable is outdated software... If you
>> can cope with it/it is not a priority, give it a try.
>>
>> Otherwise, the previous suggestions (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, OpenSUSE etc)
>> are all good choiches - stable, tested, up-to-date.
>>
>> [1] http://packages.debian.org/en/squeeze/kde-full
> 
> From what I've come across Ubuntu seems to be the only distro that has 
> automatic upgrades - i.e. some sort of script which will upgrade your distro 
> to the next version without having to completely reinstall.  I think I've been 
> through one such upgrade cycle without any breakage.  Gentoo it ain't, but on 
> the other hand I value this seamless upgrade of Ubuntu as one of its plusses 
> compared to other distros which require a re-installation.

Scientific Linux (and probably all other RHEL clones) can do this, too.
At least for updates of the minor version number (5.6 -> 5.7, for example).

This is more or less a middle ground: Between minor versions, binary
compatibility is (mostly?) ensured, especially for libraries and runtime
environments (great if you still need a python-2.4 installation with
regular security fixes). Older major numbers are also still released and
maintained after the next major update happened (e.g. 5.7 was released
after 6.0), therefore you can update at your own convenience.

Regards,
Florian Philipp


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[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Steven J Long]

Dale wrote:
>  Of course, if I find something better, I can backup the /home
> directory and install something else then restore the /home and carry on
> with something new.
>
I strongly recommend keeping a separate partition for /home; it makes things
a lot easier if and when you switch. It also makes backing up the whole 
partition with dd very easy.

> This is the beauty of Linux.
> 
Heh indeed; you can even keep an lvm setup across distros. I used to have 
`gentoo' and `debian' volume groups and it's easy to mount logical volumes 
in either direction (/home was on a separate large physical partition.)

-- 
#friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Steven J Long wrote:
> Dale wrote:
>>   Of course, if I find something better, I can backup the /home
>> directory and install something else then restore the /home and carry on
>> with something new.
>>
> I strongly recommend keeping a separate partition for /home; it makes things
> a lot easier if and when you switch. It also makes backing up the whole
> partition with dd very easy.

I always make /home separate.  Well, until udev needs it too I guess.  lol


>
>> This is the beauty of Linux.
>>
> Heh indeed; you can even keep an lvm setup across distros. I used to have
> `gentoo' and `debian' volume groups and it's easy to mount logical volumes
> in either direction (/home was on a separate large physical partition.)
>

Learned something new then.  I really need to master LVM some day.

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:19:48 -0600, Dale wrote:

> > Heh indeed; you can even keep an lvm setup across distros. I used to
> > have `gentoo' and `debian' volume groups and it's easy to mount
> > logical volumes in either direction (/home was on a separate large
> > physical partition.) 
> 
> Learned something new then.  I really need to master LVM some day.

Or you can use a single volume group, which makes space management
simpler, by including the distro name in the names of the logical volumes.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Who messed with my anti-paranoia shot?

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Pandu Poluan]

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On Nov 16, 2011 3:26 AM, "Dale" <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Steven J Long wrote:
>>
>> Dale wrote:
>>>
>>>  Of course, if I find something better, I can backup the /home
>>> directory and install something else then restore the /home and carry on
>>> with something new.
>>>
>> I strongly recommend keeping a separate partition for /home; it makes
things
>> a lot easier if and when you switch. It also makes backing up the whole
>> partition with dd very easy.
>
>
> I always make /home separate.  Well, until udev needs it too I guess.  lol
>

Heh, I knew you'd bring up that monstrosity ;-)

Rgds,

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

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Pandu Poluan wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2011 3:26 AM, "Dale" <rdalek1967@gmail.com 
> <mailto:rdalek1967@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I always make /home separate.  Well, until udev needs it too I 
> guess.  lol
> >
>
> Heh, I knew you'd bring up that monstrosity ;-)
>
> Rgds,
>

I couldn't resist.  Sorry.  o_O   Just shows people on here know me to 
well.

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:19:48 -0600, Dale wrote:
>
>>> Heh indeed; you can even keep an lvm setup across distros. I used to
>>> have `gentoo' and `debian' volume groups and it's easy to mount
>>> logical volumes in either direction (/home was on a separate large
>>> physical partition.)
>> Learned something new then.  I really need to master LVM some day.
> Or you can use a single volume group, which makes space management
> simpler, by including the distro name in the names of the logical volumes.
>
>

Well I have played with LVM a bit and done pretty well.  I just haven't 
actually used it for anything but playing yet.  I need to write down 
some key commands so that I have them in case I'm desperate.  You know, 
nothing is working but can't figure out how to turn something back on or 
do a reset.  lol

I like your sigs.  I post them on facebook sometimes.  Some of them have 
a bit of irony to them tho, depending on the subject of the email.

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Pandu Poluan]

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On Nov 16, 2011 8:07 AM, "Dale" <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Pandu Poluan wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2011 3:26 AM, "Dale" <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > I always make /home separate.  Well, until udev needs it too I guess.
 lol
>> >
>>
>> Heh, I knew you'd bring up that monstrosity ;-)
>>
>> Rgds,
>
>
> I couldn't resist.  Sorry.  o_O   Just shows people on here know me to
well.
>

Have you tried waltdnes' udev-less guide?

Rgds,

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

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Pandu Poluan wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2011 8:07 AM, "Dale" <rdalek1967@gmail.com 
> <mailto:rdalek1967@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Pandu Poluan wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 16, 2011 3:26 AM, "Dale" <rdalek1967@gmail.com 
> <mailto:rdalek1967@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I always make /home separate.  Well, until udev needs it too I 
> guess.  lol
> >> >
> >>
> >> Heh, I knew you'd bring up that monstrosity ;-)
> >>
> >> Rgds,
> >
> >
> > I couldn't resist.  Sorry.  o_O   Just shows people on here know me 
> to well.
> >
>
> Have you tried waltdnes' udev-less guide?
>
> Rgds,
>

I read the messages and am following it.  Since I rarely change 
hardware, I may at some point give it a shot.  I just got a lot going on 
right now.  My health being one of them.  My body does not like cool 
weather or when the pressure changes.  Crappy arthritis.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Érico Porto]

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is it possible to install lightDM (ubuntu 11.10) in gentoo?

Érico V. Porto


On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

>  Pandu Poluan wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2011 8:07 AM, "Dale" <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Pandu Poluan wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 16, 2011 3:26 AM, "Dale" <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I always make /home separate.  Well, until udev needs it too I guess.
>  lol
> >> >
> >>
> >> Heh, I knew you'd bring up that monstrosity ;-)
> >>
> >> Rgds,
> >
> >
> > I couldn't resist.  Sorry.  o_O   Just shows people on here know me to
> well.
> >
>
> Have you tried waltdnes' udev-less guide?
>
> Rgds,
>
>
> I read the messages and am following it.  Since I rarely change hardware,
> I may at some point give it a shot.  I just got a lot going on right now.
> My health being one of them.  My body does not like cool weather or when
> the pressure changes.  Crappy arthritis.  :/
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
> --
> I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Érico Porto wrote:
> is it possible to install lightDM (ubuntu 11.10) in gentoo?
>
> Érico V. Porto
>
>
>

It looks like you can.

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/10/simple-lightdm-manager-lets-easily-tweak-ubuntu-11-10-login-screen/

I have not tested this tho so no idea what it could/might break.

Dale

:-)  :-)


-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 01:45:45 -0200, Érico Porto wrote:

> is it possible to install lightDM (ubuntu 11.10) in gentoo?

It's in portage, so I suppose the answer has to be yes.

PS please do not top-post.

PPS Sorry for nicking your tagline Alan ;-)

-- 
Neil Bothwick

I'm not opinionated, I'm just always right!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 01:45:45 -0200, Érico Porto wrote:
>
>> is it possible to install lightDM (ubuntu 11.10) in gentoo?
> It's in portage, so I suppose the answer has to be yes.
>
> PS please do not top-post.
>
> PPS Sorry for nicking your tagline Alan ;-)
>

I sure did misread that one.  I'm not due for new glasses yet either.

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Binary install distro

[Lars Madson]

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Coming from Gentoo, I'll recommend Arch Linux, a Gentoo with
binaries....pure sugar.

Laurent

2011/11/16 Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com>

> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 01:45:45 -0200, Érico Porto wrote:
>>
>>  is it possible to install lightDM (ubuntu 11.10) in gentoo?
>>>
>> It's in portage, so I suppose the answer has to be yes.
>>
>> PS please do not top-post.
>>
>> PPS Sorry for nicking your tagline Alan ;-)
>>
>>
> I sure did misread that one.  I'm not due for new glasses yet either.
>
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
> --
> I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
> how you interpreted my words!
>
>
>

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