[gentoo-user] How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[gentoo-user] How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Spidey]

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The question is in the subject: how to easily find out what USE flags are
redundant in make.conf and package.use?
Someone somewhere in this list suggested using some tool, I've tried that
but it was extremely verbose, and I'd had to toggle manually flags to see if
it affected or not.
If some tool to pinpoint redundant flags is not already done, one to echo my
flags separated by it's source (profile, make.conf, package.use, ebuild)
would help me a lot.

Claudio Roberto França Pereira (a.k.a. Spidey)
hardMOB - HTForum - @spideybr
Engenharia de Computação - UFES 2006/1

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Re: [gentoo-user] How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Andrey Moshbear]

On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 00:17, Spidey <spideybr@gmail.com> wrote:
> The question is in the subject: how to easily find out what USE flags are
> redundant in make.conf and package.use?
> Someone somewhere in this list suggested using some tool, I've tried that
> but it was extremely verbose, and I'd had to toggle manually flags to see if
> it affected or not.
> If some tool to pinpoint redundant flags is not already done, one to echo my
> flags separated by it's source (profile, make.conf, package.use, ebuild)
> would help me a lot.

Look into app-portage/ufed.

Re: [gentoo-user] How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Dale]

Andrey Moshbear wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 00:17, Spidey<spideybr@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> The question is in the subject: how to easily find out what USE flags are
>> redundant in make.conf and package.use?
>> Someone somewhere in this list suggested using some tool, I've tried that
>> but it was extremely verbose, and I'd had to toggle manually flags to see if
>> it affected or not.
>> If some tool to pinpoint redundant flags is not already done, one to echo my
>> flags separated by it's source (profile, make.conf, package.use, ebuild)
>> would help me a lot.
> Look into app-portage/ufed.
>
>

Hey, cooool.  That is some cool stuff.  Maybe I can use this to clean 
this up:

USE="3dnow 3dnowext X a52 aac acpi alsa amd64 aml apng automount avahi 
bash-completion berkdb bzip2 cairo cdda cddb cdr chroot cleartype cli 
clucene consolekit corefonts cracklib cups curl cxx dbus declarative dri 
dvd dvdr embedded emboss encode escreen esd exif fam ffmpeg firefox flac 
fortran gdbm gdu gif gimp gkrellm gnutls gphoto2 gpm gtk hbci hddtemp 
iconv ipv6 java javascript jbig jpeg jpeg2k justify kde kipi lcms 
libnotify libwww logrotate loop-aes mad mdnsresponder-compat melt mmx 
mng modules mp3 mp4 mpeg mplayer mudflap multilib mysql ncurses nls nptl 
nptlonly nsplugin offensive ofx ogg opengl openmp pam pango parport pcre 
pdf perl phonon plasma png policykit ppds ppp pppd python qt3 qt3support 
qt4 readline sasl sdl seamonkey semantic-desktop session sift smp spell 
sse sse2 ssl startup-notification svg sysfs syslog tcl tcpd threads tiff 
tk truetype type1 udev unicode usb vcd vorbis webkit wma wmf x264 xcb 
xcomposite xinerama xml xorg xscreensaver xv xvid yahoo zeroconf zlib"

How's that for a USE line?  What does it look like if there is a USE 
flag that no longer exists?  I see ones I am not using and are using but 
can't figure out what it looks like if the USE flag is in make.conf but 
no longer exists in the tree.

Ahhh, for others to know.  If there is a flag in make.conf that isn't is 
use anymore, invalid I guess, it shows up as UNKNOWN in the 
description.  Just in case someone else is using ufed inside a Konsole, 
the page up/page down buttons work too.  There is a LOT of flags in the 
tree.  I knew there was a lot but I didn't know there was this many.  O_O

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 10/02/2011 11:44 AM, Dale wrote:
>> Look into app-portage/ufed.
>
> Hey, cooool. That is some cool stuff. Maybe I can use this to clean this
> up:
>
> USE="3dnow 3dnowext X a52 aac acpi alsa amd64 aml apng automount avahi
> [snip monstrosity]

It seems you confused make.conf with package.use :-P

Re: [gentoo-user] How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 01:17:01 -0300, Spidey wrote:

> The question is in the subject: how to easily find out what USE flags
> are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

eix-test-obsolete finds this and more besides, it's great for
keeping /etc/portage cruft-free.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Very funny Scotty.. now beam down my pants!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Dale]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 10/02/2011 11:44 AM, Dale wrote:
>>> Look into app-portage/ufed.
>>
>> Hey, cooool. That is some cool stuff. Maybe I can use this to clean this
>> up:
>>
>> USE="3dnow 3dnowext X a52 aac acpi alsa amd64 aml apng automount avahi
>> [snip monstrosity]
>
> It seems you confused make.conf with package.use :-P
>
>
>

I rarely use package.use.  There is a couple lines in there but not 
many.  I usually enable a USE flag globally in make.conf and be done 
with it.

That's just me tho.

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 10/02/2011 12:14 PM, Dale wrote:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 10/02/2011 11:44 AM, Dale wrote:
>>>> Look into app-portage/ufed.
>>>
>>> Hey, cooool. That is some cool stuff. Maybe I can use this to clean this
>>> up:
>>>
>>> USE="3dnow 3dnowext X a52 aac acpi alsa amd64 aml apng automount avahi
>>> [snip monstrosity]
>>
>> It seems you confused make.conf with package.use :-P
>>
>>
>>
>
> I rarely use package.use. There is a couple lines in there but not many.
> I usually enable a USE flag globally in make.conf and be done with it.

Which results in the above chaos ;-P  The obvious problem is that 
sometimes you enable a USE flag for some package, but that USE flag has 
an effect on other packages too if you put it in make.conf, even though 
you might not want that.  One reason you might not want that are bloated 
dependencies.  For example, you install package "foo" and you want the 
"bar" USE flag for it.  If you put it in make.conf, other packages might 
also use that flag and pull-in its deps.  Now if you unmerge "foo", an 
emerge --depclean will not uninstall those deps.  As time goes on, this 
results in a system full of deps you never really wanted and can't get 
rid of.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Dale]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 10/02/2011 12:14 PM, Dale wrote:
>> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2011 11:44 AM, Dale wrote:
>>>>> Look into app-portage/ufed.
>>>>
>>>> Hey, cooool. That is some cool stuff. Maybe I can use this to clean 
>>>> this
>>>> up:
>>>>
>>>> USE="3dnow 3dnowext X a52 aac acpi alsa amd64 aml apng automount avahi
>>>> [snip monstrosity]
>>>
>>> It seems you confused make.conf with package.use :-P
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I rarely use package.use. There is a couple lines in there but not many.
>> I usually enable a USE flag globally in make.conf and be done with it.
>
> Which results in the above chaos ;-P  The obvious problem is that 
> sometimes you enable a USE flag for some package, but that USE flag 
> has an effect on other packages too if you put it in make.conf, even 
> though you might not want that.  One reason you might not want that 
> are bloated dependencies.  For example, you install package "foo" and 
> you want the "bar" USE flag for it.  If you put it in make.conf, other 
> packages might also use that flag and pull-in its deps.  Now if you 
> unmerge "foo", an emerge --depclean will not uninstall those deps.  As 
> time goes on, this results in a system full of deps you never really 
> wanted and can't get rid of.
>
>
>


In that case, I then use package.use.  Like this in package.use:

x11-base/xorg-server -hal
net-misc/ntp caps -ipv6
media-gfx/gtkam debug
sys-power/nut -usb


I use package.use for those exceptions where I don't want something.  
Otherwise, I put it in make.conf so that I only have one file to deal 
with for the most part.

I am OCD about some things, like brakes on my car, but I'm not that OCD 
about this one.  I do wish emerge would give notice when a USE flag is 
invalid tho.  It's nice that it just ignores it and goes on but a little 
message that one has fell off the list would be nice.

To each his own I guess.  This is how I been managing my USE flags since 
about 2003 and it works rather well.  At least for me.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500
Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > On 10/02/2011 12:14 PM, Dale wrote:
> >> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >>> On 10/02/2011 11:44 AM, Dale wrote:
> >>>>> Look into app-portage/ufed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hey, cooool. That is some cool stuff. Maybe I can use this to
> >>>> clean this
> >>>> up:
> >>>>
> >>>> USE="3dnow 3dnowext X a52 aac acpi alsa amd64 aml apng automount
> >>>> avahi [snip monstrosity]
> >>>
> >>> It seems you confused make.conf with package.use :-P
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> I rarely use package.use. There is a couple lines in there but not
> >> many. I usually enable a USE flag globally in make.conf and be
> >> done with it.
> >
> > Which results in the above chaos ;-P  The obvious problem is that 
> > sometimes you enable a USE flag for some package, but that USE flag 
> > has an effect on other packages too if you put it in make.conf,
> > even though you might not want that.  One reason you might not want
> > that are bloated dependencies.  For example, you install package
> > "foo" and you want the "bar" USE flag for it.  If you put it in
> > make.conf, other packages might also use that flag and pull-in its
> > deps.  Now if you unmerge "foo", an emerge --depclean will not
> > uninstall those deps.  As time goes on, this results in a system
> > full of deps you never really wanted and can't get rid of.
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> In that case, I then use package.use.  Like this in package.use:
> 
> x11-base/xorg-server -hal
> net-misc/ntp caps -ipv6
> media-gfx/gtkam debug
> sys-power/nut -usb
> 
> 
> I use package.use for those exceptions where I don't want something.  
> Otherwise, I put it in make.conf so that I only have one file to deal 
> with for the most part.
> 
> I am OCD about some things, like brakes on my car, but I'm not that
> OCD about this one.  I do wish emerge would give notice when a USE
> flag is invalid tho.  It's nice that it just ignores it and goes on
> but a little message that one has fell off the list would be nice.

It does :-)

emerge -p colorizes invalid USE flags and marks them in some way with an
additional character. I forget who exactly it marks them (it's in the
man page and I'm lazy today) but it does stick out like a sore thimb.


> 
> To each his own I guess.  This is how I been managing my USE flags
> since about 2003 and it works rather well.  At least for me.  ;-)
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)
> 



-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500
> Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> In that case, I then use package.use. Like this in package.use: 
>> x11-base/xorg-server -hal net-misc/ntp caps -ipv6 media-gfx/gtkam 
>> debug sys-power/nut -usb I use package.use for those exceptions where 
>> I don't want something. Otherwise, I put it in make.conf so that I 
>> only have one file to deal with for the most part. I am OCD about 
>> some things, like brakes on my car, but I'm not that OCD about this 
>> one. I do wish emerge would give notice when a USE flag is invalid 
>> tho. It's nice that it just ignores it and goes on but a little 
>> message that one has fell off the list would be nice. 
> It does :-)
>
> emerge -p colorizes invalid USE flags and marks them in some way with an
> additional character. I forget who exactly it marks them (it's in the
> man page and I'm lazy today) but it does stick out like a sore thimb.
>
>

Hmmm, I never noticed that before.  I think there was only two that was 
invalid tho.  So, I guess there hasn't been as many removed as I 
thought, at least that I have used anyway.  I did enable a couple that I 
didn't know about tho.  lol  My USE line ended up not being any 
smaller.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:36:54 -0500
Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500
> > Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >
> >> In that case, I then use package.use. Like this in package.use: 
> >> x11-base/xorg-server -hal net-misc/ntp caps -ipv6 media-gfx/gtkam 
> >> debug sys-power/nut -usb I use package.use for those exceptions
> >> where I don't want something. Otherwise, I put it in make.conf so
> >> that I only have one file to deal with for the most part. I am OCD
> >> about some things, like brakes on my car, but I'm not that OCD
> >> about this one. I do wish emerge would give notice when a USE flag
> >> is invalid tho. It's nice that it just ignores it and goes on but
> >> a little message that one has fell off the list would be nice. 
> > It does :-)
> >
> > emerge -p colorizes invalid USE flags and marks them in some way
> > with an additional character. I forget who exactly it marks them
> > (it's in the man page and I'm lazy today) but it does stick out
> > like a sore thimb.
> >
> >
> 
> Hmmm, I never noticed that before.  I think there was only two that
> was invalid tho.  So, I guess there hasn't been as many removed as I 
> thought, at least that I have used anyway.  I did enable a couple
> that I didn't know about tho.  lol  My USE line ended up not being
> any smaller.  lol

For example, you have USE="perl python" in make.conf which pulls in a
truly gigantic list of extra stuff that you will have little need of.
Those two flags are coming out of profiles any day now so you will
miss the long list of rebuilds that will cause. 

Try putting those two flags in package.use only for those packages that
truly need it and when the change hits the tree sit back and watch just
how much unneccessary cruft you have :-)

You often mention the attraction of Gentoo is you get only what you
want. But, consider this; if you put flags routinely in make.conf you
lose most of that benefit. You end up with the equivalent of Mandrake
where you complied it yourself, not the binary distro.

USE="<every possible flag enabled>" emerge something
and
yum install something
a
nd pretty much equivalent in terms of end result.
-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:36:54 -0500
> Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>> On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500
>>> Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> In that case, I then use package.use. Like this in package.use:
>>>> x11-base/xorg-server -hal net-misc/ntp caps -ipv6 media-gfx/gtkam
>>>> debug sys-power/nut -usb I use package.use for those exceptions
>>>> where I don't want something. Otherwise, I put it in make.conf so
>>>> that I only have one file to deal with for the most part. I am OCD
>>>> about some things, like brakes on my car, but I'm not that OCD
>>>> about this one. I do wish emerge would give notice when a USE flag
>>>> is invalid tho. It's nice that it just ignores it and goes on but
>>>> a little message that one has fell off the list would be nice.
>>> It does :-)
>>>
>>> emerge -p colorizes invalid USE flags and marks them in some way
>>> with an additional character. I forget who exactly it marks them
>>> (it's in the man page and I'm lazy today) but it does stick out
>>> like a sore thimb.
>>>
>>>
>> Hmmm, I never noticed that before.  I think there was only two that
>> was invalid tho.  So, I guess there hasn't been as many removed as I
>> thought, at least that I have used anyway.  I did enable a couple
>> that I didn't know about tho.  lol  My USE line ended up not being
>> any smaller.  lol
> For example, you have USE="perl python" in make.conf which pulls in a
> truly gigantic list of extra stuff that you will have little need of.
> Those two flags are coming out of profiles any day now so you will
> miss the long list of rebuilds that will cause.
>
> Try putting those two flags in package.use only for those packages that
> truly need it and when the change hits the tree sit back and watch just
> how much unneccessary cruft you have :-)
>
> You often mention the attraction of Gentoo is you get only what you
> want. But, consider this; if you put flags routinely in make.conf you
> lose most of that benefit. You end up with the equivalent of Mandrake
> where you complied it yourself, not the binary distro.
>
> USE="<every possible flag enabled>" emerge something
> and
> yum install something
> a
> nd pretty much equivalent in terms of end result.

What I like about Gentoo is not being in dependency hell.  Also, 
Mandrake has a init thing that drove me bonkers on most days.  I do like 
the control that Gentoo gives but I'm not that much of a control freak.  
I wanted a distro that had a better package manager than Mandrake and no 
init thingy.  Gentoo fit that requirement even back in 2003.  So, yea 
you are right in a way but I'm just not into controlling every single 
aspect of this.  That said, I'm going to try USE="-perl -python" emerge 
-Nav world and see what pukes on my keyboard.

Also, I think a lot of things required python and/or perl back when I 
added the flag.  That just seems to have changed without me knowing 
about it.  Just like the invalid USE flags that I got rid of.  Things 
change.  I try to keep up but I do have other things to deal with at 
times.  My garden and this little 90 lb chick I met.  I'm trying to 
fatten her up a bit.  lol

This is all that puked.

root@fireball / # USE="-perl -python" emerge -Nav world

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild   R    ] dev-util/boost-build-1.46.1  USE="-examples -python*" 
41,017 kB
[ebuild   R    ] sys-apps/util-linux-2.19.1  USE="cramfs loop-aes 
ncurses nls unicode -crypt -old-linux -perl* (-selinux) -slang 
(-uclibc)" 4,341 kB
[ebuild   R    ] media-libs/alsa-lib-1.0.24.1  USE="-alisp -debug -doc 
-python* -static-libs" ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS="adpcm alaw asym copy dmix 
dshare dsnoop empty extplug file hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat 
linear meter mmap_emul mulaw multi null plug rate route share shm 
softvol" 814 kB
[ebuild   R    ] media-libs/lcms-1.19  USE="jpeg tiff zlib -python* 
-static-libs" 907 kB
[ebuild   R    ] dev-libs/libgamin-0.1.10-r2  USE="-debug -python* 
-static-libs" 834 kB
[ebuild   R    ] sys-apps/file-5.07-r3  USE="zlib -python* -static-libs" 
584 kB
[ebuild   R    ] sys-libs/cracklib-2.8.16  USE="nls -python*" 604 kB
[ebuild   R    ] dev-lang/yasm-1.1.0-r1  USE="nls -python*" 1,377 kB
[ebuild   R    ] dev-libs/boost-1.46.1-r1  USE="eselect -debug -doc -icu 
-mpi -python* -static-libs -test -tools" 0 kB
[ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/kdegames-meta-4.7.1  USE="opengl (-aqua) 
-python*" 0 kB
[ebuild   R    ] dev-libs/libxslt-1.1.26-r1  USE="-crypt -debug 
-python*" 3,322 kB
[ebuild   R    ] net-libs/libproxy-0.4.6-r3  USE="kde -gnome -mono 
-networkmanager -perl* -python* -test" 81 kB
[ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/marble-4.7.1  USE="handbook kde plasma (-aqua) 
-debug -designer-plugin -gps (-kdeenablefinal) -python* -test" 20,575 kB
[ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/superkaramba-4.7.1  USE="(-aqua) -debug 
(-kdeenablefinal) -python*" 3,711 kB
[ebuild   R   #] net-print/cups-1.5.0-r2  USE="X dbus gnutls java jpeg 
pam png ssl threads tiff -acl -debug -kerberos -ldap -perl* -php 
-python* -samba -slp -static-libs -usb -xinetd" LINGUAS="-da -de -es -eu 
-fi -fr -id -it -ja -ko -nl -no -pl -pt -pt_BR -ru -sv -zh -zh_TW" 3,995 kB
[ebuild   R   ~] net-analyzer/wireshark-1.6.2  USE="caps gtk ipv6 pcap 
ssl threads zlib -adns -ares -doc -doc-pdf -gcrypt -geoip -kerberos -lua 
-portaudio -profile -python* (-selinux) -smi" 20,907 kB
[ebuild   R    ] media-libs/mlt-0.5.10  USE="ffmpeg gtk kde melt qt4 sdl 
sse sse2 vorbis xml -compressed-lumas -debug -dv -frei0r -jack 
-libsamplerate -lua (-mmx) -python* -quicktime -ruby -vdpau -xine" 801 kB
[ebuild   R    ] dev-lang/R-2.10.1  USE="X bash-completion cairo java 
jpeg nls png readline threads tk -doc -lapack -minimal -perl*" 19,248 kB
[ebuild   R    ] media-gfx/gimp-2.6.11-r5  USE="alsa curl dbus exif jpeg 
lcms mmx mng pdf png smp sse svg tiff webkit wmf -aalib (-altivec) 
-debug -doc -gnome -python*" 16,088 kB
[ebuild   R    ] media-gfx/imagemagick-6.7.1.0  USE="X bzip2 corefonts 
cxx jbig jpeg jpeg2k lcms openmp png svg tiff truetype wmf xml zlib 
-autotrace -djvu -fftw -fontconfig -fpx -graphviz -gs -hdri -lqr -lzma 
-opencl -openexr -perl* -q32 -q64 -q8 -raw -static-libs -webp" 7,573 kB
[ebuild   R    ] dev-vcs/git-1.7.3.4-r1  USE="bash-completion blksha1 
curl gtk iconv threads tk webdav -cgi -cvs -doc -emacs -perl* (-ppcsha1) 
-subversion -xinetd" 2,862 kB
[ebuild   R    ] dev-db/mysql-5.1.56  USE="community embedded ssl 
-big-tables -cluster -debug -extraengine -latin1 -max-idx-128 -minimal 
-pbxt -perl* -profiling (-selinux) -static -test -xtradb" 25,496 kB
[ebuild   R    ] app-mobilephone/gammu-1.28.0  USE="curl mysql nls 
python usb -bluetooth -dbi -debug -irda -postgres" LINGUAS="-af -bg -ca 
-cs -da -de -el -es -et -fi -fr -gl -he -hu -id -it -ko -nl -pl -pt_BR 
-ru -sk -sv -sw -zh_CN -zh_TW" 2,336 kB
[ebuild   R   ~] kde-base/plasma-workspace-4.7.1-r1  USE="handbook rss 
semantic-desktop xinerama (-aqua) -debug -google-gadgets -gps 
(-kdeenablefinal) -python* -qalculate" 19,911 kB

Total: 24 packages (24 reinstalls), Size of downloads: 197,372 kB

The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:
#required by app-mobilephone/wammu-0.35, required by @selected, required 
by @world (argument)
=app-mobilephone/gammu-1.28.0 python

Use --autounmask-write to write changes to config files (honoring 
CONFIG_PROTECT).
root@fireball / #

Not bad really.  Just one small up chuck.  LOL   This may qualify for a 
package.use exception.  ;-)  See, I'm flexible, most days.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Michael Mol]

On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:36:54 -0500
> Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> > On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500
>> > Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
> You often mention the attraction of Gentoo is you get only what you
> want. But, consider this; if you put flags routinely in make.conf you
> lose most of that benefit. You end up with the equivalent of Mandrake
> where you complied it yourself, not the binary distro.
>
> USE="<every possible flag enabled>" emerge something and
> yum install something and pretty much equivalent in terms of end
> result.

I'm actually very much in Dale's usage pattern here. If there's a
feature I want, and it's a globally-valid USE flag (such as, say,
ipv6), I put it in make.conf. If there's a feature I want, and it's
package-specific, it goes in package.use. If there's a feature I want,
it's a globally-valid USE flag, but I *don't* want it in a particular
package (say, X in vim), the enabler goes in make.conf, the disabler
goes in packages.use; for 90% of packages, I want that support.

So that's not USE=<every possible flag enable>, that's USE=<all the
global flags I want enabled>.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 08:50:41 -0500, Dale wrote:

> That said, I'm going to try USE="-perl -python" emerge 
> -Nav world and see what pukes on my keyboard.
> 
> Also, I think a lot of things required python and/or perl back when I 
> added the flag.

If they require Perl or Python, you won't have the perl or python USE
flag. That's for optional choices, which usually means building language
bindings with these flags.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Taglines are like cars - You get a good one, then someone nicks it.

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Re: [gentoo-user] How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[pk]

On 2011-10-02 10:44, Dale wrote:

> How's that for a USE line?  What does it look like if there is a USE

Hm... this doesn't really answer the original question but I like to put
my USE flags (in make.conf) in a list (alphabetized [using sort]) like this:

USE="
3dnow
3dnowext
a52
aac
-accessibility
acl
acpi
...
"

To me, that's easier to maintain and get an overview of...

Best regards

Peter K

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 10:53:46 -0400
Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon
> <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:36:54 -0500
> > Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >> > On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500
> >> > Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
> > You often mention the attraction of Gentoo is you get only what you
> > want. But, consider this; if you put flags routinely in make.conf
> > you lose most of that benefit. You end up with the equivalent of
> > Mandrake where you complied it yourself, not the binary distro.
> >
> > USE="<every possible flag enabled>" emerge something and
> > yum install something and pretty much equivalent in terms of end
> > result.
> 
> I'm actually very much in Dale's usage pattern here. If there's a
> feature I want, and it's a globally-valid USE flag (such as, say,
> ipv6), I put it in make.conf. If there's a feature I want, and it's
> package-specific, it goes in package.use. If there's a feature I want,
> it's a globally-valid USE flag, but I *don't* want it in a particular
> package (say, X in vim), the enabler goes in make.conf, the disabler
> goes in packages.use; for 90% of packages, I want that support.
> 
> So that's not USE=<every possible flag enable>, that's USE=<all the
> global flags I want enabled>.
 

As with all things in life,  USE flags require intelligence, common
sense and familiarity to use to best advantage. Not all global USE
flags are equal or used in the same way!

USE="ipv6" is mostly global and single-meaning. ipv6 support means
just that - ipv6 support. For a daemon, that would be listen on an
ipv6 interface and talk it back. For config tools, it's " set up
interfaces and routes ipv6 style". It's hard to come up with a meaning
for the flag that's outside that narrow range; it's equally hard to
come up with a reason to use in package.use. Maybe disable it for a
package that supports ipv6 but is known to be broken in it's support.

USE="perl python" is a very different kettle of fish. While also
global (i.e. used in a similar way by more than x number of ebuilds),
the meaning in use can differ wildly. It can mean to build support
for extra tools written in perl|python, or build language bindings, or
use language bindings and possibly many things. These flags can benefit
from being used in package.use - whereas you probably want ipv6 support
everywhere if used, perl|python isn't used the same way.

Your post indicates you already know this :-)

I mentioned it to Dale to illuminate that just because a flag is
*defined* globally doesn't mean you have to *use* it globally. And the
reverse is also true - overlays often have flags used in many ebuilds,
always with the same meaning (e17 is like this), but are not global in
use.desc. My own make.conf has many of these flags.

Sometimes I wish Gentoo would express these distinctions. Then I think
about what it would take to do that, and shelf the idea :-)

--
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Dale]

pk wrote:
> On 2011-10-02 10:44, Dale wrote:
>
>> How's that for a USE line?  What does it look like if there is a USE
> Hm... this doesn't really answer the original question but I like to put
> my USE flags (in make.conf) in a list (alphabetized [using sort]) like this:
>
> USE="
> 3dnow
> 3dnowext
> a52
> aac
> -accessibility
> acl
> acpi
> ...
> "
>
> To me, that's easier to maintain and get an overview of...
>
> Best regards
>
> Peter K
>
>

Well, I used esue or something and my make.conf USE line now looks like 
this:

USE="3dnow 3dnowext X a52 acpi alsa aml apng automount avahi \
      bash-completion bzip2 cddb cdr chroot cleartype clucene corefonts 
cups \
      curl dbus declarative dri dvd dvdr embedded escreen esd exif \
      ffmpeg fortran gif gimp gkrellm gnutls gphoto2 gtk hbci hddtemp \
      ipv6 java javascript jbig jpeg2k justify kde libwww \
      logrotate loop-aes mdnsresponder-compat melt mmx mmxext mng mp3 \
      mplayer mysql nls nsplugin nvidia offensive ofx opengl parport pdf \
      policykit ppds ppp qt3support qt4 sasl seamonkey \
      semantic-desktop sift smp sse sse2 sse4a syslog tcl threads tiff tk \
      truetype type1 udev usb vcd webkit wma wmf yahoo zeroconf -acl \
      -bluetooth -branding -crypt -doc -dts -eds -fftw -gcj -gnome \
      -jabber -jingle -ldap -musepack -openldap -oss -otr -sqlite \
      -sqlite3 -theora -v41 -xulrunner"

So, I guess you put the \ on the end and indent the next line and it 
sees it as one line.

I might also add that mine was in alphabetical order BEFORE I used euse 
or whatever that was that did the chicken scratch up there.

Want to try it?

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[pk]

On 2011-10-02 19:51, Dale wrote:

> So, I guess you put the \ on the end and indent the next line and it
> sees it as one line.

This is copy-paste (well, it's not all of it but I think you get the
idea) directly from my make.conf:
USE="
3dnow
3dnowext
a52
aac
-accessibility
acl
acpi
...
"

Portage interprets everything between the " " as 'one' line; no need for \.

> Want to try it?

Thanks, I'll skip it for now... :-)

Best regards

Peter K

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 10:53:46 -0400
> Michael Mol<mikemol@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon
>> <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:36:54 -0500
>>> Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 05:13:49 -0500
>>>>> Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>> You often mention the attraction of Gentoo is you get only what you
>>> want. But, consider this; if you put flags routinely in make.conf
>>> you lose most of that benefit. You end up with the equivalent of
>>> Mandrake where you complied it yourself, not the binary distro.
>>>
>>> USE="<every possible flag enabled>" emerge something and
>>> yum install something and pretty much equivalent in terms of end
>>> result.
>> I'm actually very much in Dale's usage pattern here. If there's a
>> feature I want, and it's a globally-valid USE flag (such as, say,
>> ipv6), I put it in make.conf. If there's a feature I want, and it's
>> package-specific, it goes in package.use. If there's a feature I want,
>> it's a globally-valid USE flag, but I *don't* want it in a particular
>> package (say, X in vim), the enabler goes in make.conf, the disabler
>> goes in packages.use; for 90% of packages, I want that support.
>>
>> So that's not USE=<every possible flag enable>, that's USE=<all the
>> global flags I want enabled>.
>
>
> As with all things in life,  USE flags require intelligence, common
> sense and familiarity to use to best advantage. Not all global USE
> flags are equal or used in the same way!
>
> USE="ipv6" is mostly global and single-meaning. ipv6 support means
> just that - ipv6 support. For a daemon, that would be listen on an
> ipv6 interface and talk it back. For config tools, it's " set up
> interfaces and routes ipv6 style". It's hard to come up with a meaning
> for the flag that's outside that narrow range; it's equally hard to
> come up with a reason to use in package.use. Maybe disable it for a
> package that supports ipv6 but is known to be broken in it's support.
>
> USE="perl python" is a very different kettle of fish. While also
> global (i.e. used in a similar way by more than x number of ebuilds),
> the meaning in use can differ wildly. It can mean to build support
> for extra tools written in perl|python, or build language bindings, or
> use language bindings and possibly many things. These flags can benefit
> from being used in package.use - whereas you probably want ipv6 support
> everywhere if used, perl|python isn't used the same way.
>
> Your post indicates you already know this :-)
>
> I mentioned it to Dale to illuminate that just because a flag is
> *defined* globally doesn't mean you have to *use* it globally. And the
> reverse is also true - overlays often have flags used in many ebuilds,
> always with the same meaning (e17 is like this), but are not global in
> use.desc. My own make.conf has many of these flags.
>
> Sometimes I wish Gentoo would express these distinctions. Then I think
> about what it would take to do that, and shelf the idea :-)
>
> --
> Alan McKinnnon
> alan.mckinnon@gmail.com
>
>

I saw your point.  That's why I said I do make exceptions.  For me, I do 
whatever is easier to keep up with.  I actually went back and removed 
perl and python from make.conf so that it would basically go by the 
ebuild I guess.  When I ran emerge -uvaDN world, it wanted to rebuild 
actually nothing.  I guess I could do -perl and -python to force it to 
disable but that may cause some other issue that I'm not wanting to deal 
with.  So, I ended up with perl and python removed from make.conf.  When 
the changes you were talking about come along, I'll know it and can see 
what I need to do to get what I need.

One thing I don't like about having all the separate file in package.* 
is trying to keep up with them.  I have several files that are there 
that don't even have anything in them because either portages unmask 
feature or autounmask created them.  I sort of wonder if it wouldn't be 
easier for me to go back to a single file.  Then I can open it with 
kwrite and if the file has a lot in it, just use the find tool.  I know, 
I'm sure there is some command that can do that but that's another 
story.  Of course I also have several files that do have something in 
them.  Thing is, if I suspect something is in a file and want to look, I 
have to open each file, look to see if it's there and if not, repeat 
with the next one until I find it.  Sometimes that is like a needle in a 
haystack.

One step forward, two steps back.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 14:26:27 -0500, Dale wrote:

> One thing I don't like about having all the separate file in package.* 
> is trying to keep up with them.  I have several files that are there 
> that don't even have anything in them because either
> portages unmask feature or autounmask created them.  I sort of wonder
> if it wouldn't be easier for me to go back to a single file.  Then I
> can open it with kwrite and if the file has a lot in it, just use the
> find tool.  I know, I'm sure there is some command that can do that but
> that's another story.  Of course I also have several files that do have
> something in them.  Thing is, if I suspect something is in a file and
> want to look, I have to open each file, look to see if it's there and
> if not, repeat with the next one until I find it.  Sometimes that is
> like a needle in a haystack.

Either give the files sensible names or use grep :)

I name the file after the package that requires its settings, so if foo
requires a USE flag on libbar, I put that in foo. That way, if I unmerge
foo, I can delete the file and not leave cruft.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

If it ain't broke, break it and charge for repair.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 14:26:27 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> One thing I don't like about having all the separate file in package.*
>> is trying to keep up with them.  I have several files that are there
>> that don't even have anything in them because either
>> portages unmask feature or autounmask created them.  I sort of wonder
>> if it wouldn't be easier for me to go back to a single file.  Then I
>> can open it with kwrite and if the file has a lot in it, just use the
>> find tool.  I know, I'm sure there is some command that can do that but
>> that's another story.  Of course I also have several files that do have
>> something in them.  Thing is, if I suspect something is in a file and
>> want to look, I have to open each file, look to see if it's there and
>> if not, repeat with the next one until I find it.  Sometimes that is
>> like a needle in a haystack.
> Either give the files sensible names or use grep :)
>
> I name the file after the package that requires its settings, so if foo
> requires a USE flag on libbar, I put that in foo. That way, if I unmerge
> foo, I can delete the file and not leave cruft.
>
>

I generally use autounmask or portages unmask feature and it gives them 
names.  Thing is, just because is it named something doesn't mean that 
is what is in it.  I had a KDE unmask file that had things that were not 
KDE but was needed by KDE.  It has all sorts of weird things in it.

Maybe I need to study the find command or something.  lol  Then again, 
I'm confused enough already for today.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How to easily find out what USE flags are redundant in make.conf and package.use?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 14:51:56 -0500, Dale wrote:

> I generally use autounmask or portages unmask feature and it gives them 
> names.  Thing is, just because is it named something doesn't mean that 
> is what is in it.  I had a KDE unmask file that had things that were
> not KDE but was needed by KDE.  It has all sorts of weird things in it.

That makes sense. The USE flags are there because of KDE and if you ever
go over to the other side you can get rid of them.

> Maybe I need to study the find command or something.  lol  Then again, 
> I'm confused enough already for today.  :/

You need grep, not find, if it's the content of the files that matters.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"A computer is like an Old Testament god, with a lot of rules and no
mercy." \xA0-- Joseph Campbell

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