From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1R3DGd-0007H1-Er for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:38:11 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 240D621C2C7; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:37:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wy0-f181.google.com (mail-wy0-f181.google.com [74.125.82.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7171E04ED for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:35:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wyg36 with SMTP id 36so4771689wyg.40 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:35:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IGI0q/ZHcpC3QXpTd0Nigzz9+eQzjcX3VZdr3CJanmE=; b=Ev9u+3MsOgunS/B1Np4NtSNLVwiu64cSZXRpUF23z/2EzgezGVRMlIrBSmWjxgK9Ag QXSiSB3g9A99d2qmBoQNhgDN+2/iL9aDAEwsMTy86UDUs1YaY3bPnQGonvkpUy+5jbNg Gg0h0iijHjMTzoa8R/moiMwciJ6uvWYG8mwYQ= Received: by 10.216.131.229 with SMTP id m79mr2941276wei.14.1315859702019; Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rohan (196-210-153-55.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.210.153.55]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fq9sm17370211wbb.15.2011.09.12.13.34.58 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 22:34:45 +0200 From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] udev + /usr Message-ID: <20110912223445.158c5b75@rohan> In-Reply-To: References: <20110912150248.GB3599@acm.acm> <4E6E31A1.1030904@gmail.com> Organization: Internet Solutions X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.8 (GTK+ 2.24.4; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: e5577a7954fe7e4b3c1537e4cfff854f On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 12:42:00 -0400 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote: > On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Dale wrote: > > Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote: > >> > >> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Alan Mackenzie > >> =C2=A0wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, everybody. > >>> > >>> Hope nobody minds me starting a new thread with an accurate name. > >>> > >>> Which version of udev is it that has this nauseating feature of > >>> needing /usr loaded to boot? > >>> > >>> Somewhere in that version's source will be several (or lots of) > >>> "/usr". Just how difficult is it going to be to replace > >>> "/usr/bin" with "/bin" throughout the source? > >>> > >>> udev is part of the kernel. =C2=A0How come the kernel hackers aren't > >>> up in arms about this as much as we are? =C2=A0Or are they, maybe? = =C2=A0In > >>> which case, maybe the kernel people would welcome an option to > >>> disrequire the early mounting of /usr as much as we would. > >>> > >>> Anyhow, I'd like to take a peek at the source code which does > >>> this evil thing. =C2=A0Would somebody please tell me which version of > >>> udev is involved. > >>> > >>> Thanks. > >> > >> (This would be my only post in this new thread: I think I have > >> made my point of view clear in the other thread). > >> > >> I have seen a lot of disinformation going on in the other threads > >> (like some people suggesting that /var would not be able to be on > >> its own partition at some point in the future). Just before > >> everyone start to wildy conjecture, please take a look at this: > >> > >> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken > >> > >> Also, a look at this thread is maybe justified: > >> > >> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.sysutils.systemd.devel/1728/ > >> > >> Both things are in the context of systemd, but it's related to the > >> discussion at hand. I know not everybody wants to use systemd, and > >> think Lennart and Kay are the root of all that is wrong and evil on > >> the world, but I will recommend everyone interested in the reasons > >> of the push for a recommended initramfs to take a look at the page > >> in fd.org, and the thread in the systemd mailing list. Even if you > >> don't agree with the reasoning, it is worth to take a look at it. > >> > >> As for me, I would say one last time my POV: Linux strives to be > >> much more than Unix, and that means do things differently. It will > >> always be capable of do anything that Unix does, and most of the > >> time it will do it better. But that doesn't (necessarily) means > >> that it will do it in the same way. > >> > >> And many of us don't take "but my config/setup/partition works > >> now" as a valid argument to restrain progress. > >> > >> Change happens. > >> > >> Regards everyone. > > > > You say it was disinformation about /var. =C2=A0Care to explain why me > > and one other person read the same thing? =C2=A0It was mentioned on > > -dev. =C2=A0I was pretty sure it was and then another person posted they > > read the same. =C2=A0So, I'm almost certain it was said at this point. > > =C2=A0Surely we can't both be wrong. The issue is not /var, it is /var/run. This dir can be needed early in the boot process, but cannot be mounted before /var is mounted. The solution is /run. $DEITY help us when people start finding needed crap in /var/lib and other such insanities. --=20 Alan McKinnnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com