Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design

[David W Noon]

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On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 01:00:01 +0200, Mick wrote about [gentoo-user] Re:
Threads changing  Was: OT: website design:

>David W Noon wrote:
[snip]
>> I hope all is clear now.
>
>... as mud!
>
>This reply of yours (unlike your previous) is shown as a new thread in 
>Knode, not as a threaded reply to Dale's message.  :@
>
>PS. I'm responding using Knode and news.gmane.org as an NNTP server,
>to see what difference this may make.

Well, here are some interesting header lines from my message to which
you are replying:

Message-ID: <h07vY-7fk-13@gated-at.bofh.it>

References: <gZYsG-h5-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h07vY-7fk-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h07vY-7fk-19@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h07vY-7fk-23@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h07vY-7fk-27@gated-at.bofh.it> <gZYsG-h5-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h07vY-7fk-29@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-31@gated-at.bofh.it>

X-Original-Message-ID: <20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local>

X-Original-References: <gZXPY-7QA-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<gZXPY-7QA-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rr-2L8-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h05ku-3FK-7@gated-at.bofh.it>

The X-Original-Message-ID: line is a rewrite of the original Message-ID:
line Claws-Mail assigned when I wrote the message.  The Message-ID:
line is the replacement generated by the bofh.it list server.  These
both look quite kosher.

Now, when we look at the References: and X-Original-References: lines,
we see that the list server has rewritten the message id's of all the
messages referred to earlier in the thread.  I find this a little
strange, as it seems that the message id's sent to Usenet differ from
the ones sent via email.

If we now look at the innards of your message, the one to which I am
currently replying, we see this:

References: <gZYsG-h5-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h07vY-7fk-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h07vY-7fk-19@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h07vY-7fk-23@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h07vY-7fk-27@gated-at.bofh.it> <gZYsG-h5-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h07vY-7fk-29@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-31@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h07vY-7fk-13@gated-at.bofh.it>

X-Original-References: <gZXPY-7QA-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h04Rs-2L8-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h04Rs-2L8-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h04Rs-2L8-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h04Rs-2L8-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <gZXPY-7QA-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <h04Rr-2L8-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <h05ku-3FK-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
 <20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local>

The last message id in your X-Original-References: line has used my
original message id, not the one from the Message-ID: line generated by
the Gentoo list server.  This should not cause problems, as the better
mail and news readers should only use In-Reply-To: and References:
header lines for the initial threading.

I should point out that I always post by SMTP to
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org, and never through an NNTP server (not
even my own).  This means that you should not see my original
Message-ID: line, except after it has been rewritten and replaced by
the list server.

So, why is KNode using my original message id for its References: line?

Could you please look at the Message-ID: and X-Original-Message-ID:
lines in my previous message and compare them to those I posted above?
-- 
Regards,

Dave  [RLU #314465]
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
dwnoon@ntlworld.com (David W Noon)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

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Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing

[David W Noon]

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On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 01:10:02 +0200, Dale wrote about Re: [gentoo-user]
Threads changing  Was: OT: website design:

>David W Noon wrote:
[snip]
>> I hope all is clear now.
>
>Oh, so when it gets broken, I need to find the message before that to 
>see where it got messed up.  Sorry to use the technical term "messed
>up" but it fits rather well.  lol

Yes and no.

In fact, it is the copy of the message I have received that has the
duff Message-ID: line.  If you're receiving this list by email, the
copy you have should have the correct message id.

But it seems to be rather more complicated than I initially thought.

It seems that bofh.it maintains multiple message id's for each
message.  See my reply to Mick Kintzios with all the cryptic message
id's in it for the situation to become more blurred.

Since it has just gone 5 PM, I am going to have a nice hot cup of tea
to think about what all this might really mean.  It's what Sherlock
Holmes would have called a "3-pipe problem", but I'm a non-smoker, so
I'll drink tea instead.
-- 
Regards,

Dave  [RLU #314465]
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
dwnoon@ntlworld.com (David W Noon)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design

[Mick]

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On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 16:48:19 David W Noon wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 01:00:01 +0200, Mick wrote about [gentoo-user] Re:
> 
> Threads changing  Was: OT: website design:
> >David W Noon wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> >> I hope all is clear now.
> >
> >... as mud!
> >
> >This reply of yours (unlike your previous) is shown as a new thread in
> >Knode, not as a threaded reply to Dale's message.  :@
> >
> >PS. I'm responding using Knode and news.gmane.org as an NNTP server,
> >to see what difference this may make.
> 
> Well, here are some interesting header lines from my message to which
> you are replying:
> 
> Message-ID: <h07vY-7fk-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 
> References: <gZYsG-h5-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-19@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-23@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-27@gated-at.bofh.it> <gZYsG-h5-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-29@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-31@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 
> X-Original-Message-ID: <20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local>
> 
> X-Original-References: <gZXPY-7QA-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<gZXPY-7QA-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h04Rr-2L8-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h05ku-3FK-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 
> The X-Original-Message-ID: line is a rewrite of the original Message-ID:
> line Claws-Mail assigned when I wrote the message.  The Message-ID:
> line is the replacement generated by the bofh.it list server.  These
> both look quite kosher.

I am getting a headache!  O_O

This is what Knode is showing as header references in your message that I 
thereafter responded using Knode and news.gmane.org:

Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail
From: David W Noon <dwnoon@ntlworld.com>
Newsgroups: gmane.linux.gentoo.user
Subject: Re: Threads changing  Was: OT: website design
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 23:22:00 +0100
Organization: Luton Operatic Society
Lines: 64
Approved: news@gmane.org
Message-ID: <20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local>  [1]
References: <gZXPY-7QA-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<gZXPY-7QA-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h04Rr-2L8-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
	<h05ku-3FK-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1;

[1] As you can see the Message ID: <20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local> 
shown on Usenet is different to the Message-ID: <h07vY-7fk-13@gated-
at.bofh.it> which you mention above, but the same with your X-Original-
Message-ID: <20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local>.

The Usenet headers do not show any X-Original-References: in your message, at 
least not in my Knode.

The email headers also do not show any X-Original-References: at least in my 
Kmail.  :(


> Now, when we look at the References: and X-Original-References: lines,
> we see that the list server has rewritten the message id's of all the
> messages referred to earlier in the thread.  I find this a little
> strange, as it seems that the message id's sent to Usenet differ from
> the ones sent via email.

I'm not entirely sure that this rewriting is a list server action and wonder 
if it has something to do with your fetchmail setup ...


> If we now look at the innards of your message, the one to which I am
> currently replying, we see this:
> 
> References: <gZYsG-h5-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-19@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-23@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-27@gated-at.bofh.it> <gZYsG-h5-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-29@gated-at.bofh.it> <h07vY-7fk-31@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 
> X-Original-References: <gZXPY-7QA-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h04Rs-2L8-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h04Rs-2L8-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h04Rs-2L8-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h04Rs-2L8-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <gZXPY-7QA-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h04Rr-2L8-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <h05ku-3FK-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local>
> 
> The last message id in your X-Original-References: line has used my
> original message id, not the one from the Message-ID: line generated by
> the Gentoo list server.  This should not cause problems, as the better
> mail and news readers should only use In-Reply-To: and References:
> header lines for the initial threading.
> 
> I should point out that I always post by SMTP to
> gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org, and never through an NNTP server (not
> even my own).  This means that you should not see my original
> Message-ID: line, except after it has been rewritten and replaced by
> the list server.

My Knode reply was via news.gmane.org, but all my other messages (inc. this) 
is to gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org.

> So, why is KNode using my original message id for its References: line?
> 
> Could you please look at the Message-ID: and X-Original-Message-ID:
> lines in my previous message and compare them to those I posted above?

I've done that as I'm showing above.  I've also compared the email and news 
message headers of my previous response through Knode:

Email headers:
Message-ID: <ised0l$m87$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <gZXPY-7QA-21@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-3@gated-at.bofh.it> 
<h04Rs-2L8-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-7@gated-at.bofh.it> 
<h04Rs-2L8-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-11@gated-at.bofh.it> 
<h04Rs-2L8-13@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-15@gated-at.bofh.it> 
<gZXPY-7QA-23@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rr-2L8-1@gated-at.bofh.it> 
<h05ku-3FK-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local>

and News headers:

Message-ID: <ised0l$m87$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <gZXPY-7QA-21@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-3@gated-at.bofh.it> 
<h04Rs-2L8-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-7@gated-at.bofh.it> 
<h04Rs-2L8-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-11@gated-at.bofh.it> 
<h04Rs-2L8-13@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rs-2L8-15@gated-at.bofh.it> 
<gZXPY-7QA-23@gated-at.bofh.it> <h04Rr-2L8-1@gated-at.bofh.it> 
<h05ku-3FK-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <20110604232200.36c03637@karnak.local>

Hope this helps somehow ...
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design

[Indi]

On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 08:20:01PM +0200, Mick wrote:
> 
> The Usenet headers do not show any X-Original-References: in your message, at 
> least not in my Knode.
>

They do, but apparently knode isn't showing you all headers.

> The email headers also do not show any X-Original-References: at least in my 
> Kmail.  :(
> 

No, in mail that header doesn't exist. The mail2news gateway recreates  
the Message-ID header especially for usenet and puts the original MID in 
X-Original-Message-ID, which is a custom header.
I'm fairly certain that merely taking the X-Original-Message-ID info
of the message one wishes to reply to and puting it in the In-Reply-To 
field of the reply is the trick to reading from usenet without breaking 
threads posting. The References won't matter.

This post was done that way, so let me know.
:)

-- 
klaatu virada nicto

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design

[Mick]

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On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 19:35:52 Indi wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 08:20:01PM +0200, Mick wrote:
> > The Usenet headers do not show any X-Original-References: in your
> > message, at least not in my Knode.
> 
> They do, but apparently knode isn't showing you all headers.

Well, under View source it doesn't.  Nor is it showing it in the sent_3.mbox 
flat file where news messages are stored.

Coming to think of it I just checked and google mail does not show any when 
you view the raw message (Show Original).


> > The email headers also do not show any X-Original-References: at least in
> > my Kmail.  :(
> 
> No, in mail that header doesn't exist. The mail2news gateway recreates
> the Message-ID header especially for usenet and puts the original MID in
> X-Original-Message-ID, which is a custom header.
> I'm fairly certain that merely taking the X-Original-Message-ID info
> of the message one wishes to reply to and puting it in the In-Reply-To
> field of the reply is the trick to reading from usenet without breaking
> threads posting. The References won't matter.
> 
> This post was done that way, so let me know.
> 
> :)

This post only shows:

Message-ID: <20110605183552.GA23307@gaurahari.merseine.nu>
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design

[Mick]

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On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 19:59:59 David W Noon wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 01:10:02 +0200, Dale wrote about Re: [gentoo-user]
> Threads changing  Was: OT: website design:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> >Oh, so when it gets broken, I need to find the message before that to
> >see where it got messed up.  Sorry to use the technical term "messed
> >up" but it fits rather well.  lol
> 
> Okay, this is my second follow-up to this message, and things are
> becoming much clearer in my mind and somewhat more complicated in
> reality.
> 
> The message to which I am replying has the following header lines:
> 
> Message-ID: <h088G-8nx-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 
> X-Original-Message-ID: <4DEAB868.6040001@gmail.com>
> 
> My first reply has these two header lines, the first of which should be
> part of the thread formation process used by a good MUA:
> 
> References: <h0nU6-PO-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h0nU6-PO-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <h0nU6-PO-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h0nU6-PO-19@gated-at.bofh.it> <h0nU6-PO-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h0nU6-PO-23@gated-at.bofh.it> <h0nU6-PO-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h0nU6-PO-27@gated-at.bofh.it> <h0nU6-PO-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h0nU6-PO-31@gated-at.bofh.it> <h0nU6-PO-33@gated-at.bofh.it>
>  <h0nU6-PO-35@gated-at.bofh.it> <h0o3M-1jx-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 
> X-Original-References: <gZYsG-h5-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h07vY-7fk-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h07vY-7fk-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h07vY-7fk-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h07vY-7fk-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h07vY-7fk-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h07vY-7fk-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h07vY-7fk-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<gZYsG-h5-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h07vY-7fk-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h07vY-7fk-31@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h07vY-7fk-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 	<h088G-8nx-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
> 
> The X-Original-References: line has the correct message id as the last
> one in the list.  This absolutely correct, which means that Claws-Mail
> is doing the right thing.
> 
> The References: line has some really weird replacements for the ones
> that were originally in the message I submitted.  Unless list messages
> are being assigned different message id's for different distribution
> mechanisms (SMTP/POP3 and NNTP), this means the list server is broken.
> This would be a third, and more pernicious, source of thread breakage.
> 
> In my previous reply to this message, I changed the Subject: line
> slightly: I removed the "Was OT: website design" tail.  This caused the
> thread to break in my MUA too.  In turn, this implies that Claws was
> "wallpapering over the crack" by rejoining the thread using Subject:
> and Date: headers to put the messages into chronological sequence
> within Subject: text grouping.  I suspect other MUAs are doing the same,
> which is why the problem is not perceived more widely.
> 
> I now need to change my subscription details so that I receive messages
> by email, as well as through Usenet.  This will then tell me if message
> id's are the same across delivery mechanisms or different.
> 
> Are we all confused enough for this weekend? ... :-)

Ha, ha!  I'm more than others it seems!

Also have a look at gmane.  Some of your responses (and Indi's) are broken.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design

[Indi]

On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 08:17:53PM +0100, Mick wrote:
> On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 19:35:52 Indi wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 08:20:01PM +0200, Mick wrote:
> > > The Usenet headers do not show any X-Original-References: in your
> > > message, at least not in my Knode.
> > 
> > They do, but apparently knode isn't showing you all headers.
> 
> Well, under View source it doesn't.  Nor is it showing it in the sent_3.mbox 
> flat file where news messages are stored.
> 
> Coming to think of it I just checked and google mail does not show any when 
> you view the raw message (Show Original).
> 
> 
> > > The email headers also do not show any X-Original-References: at least in
> > > my Kmail.  :(
> > 
> > No, in mail that header doesn't exist. The mail2news gateway recreates
> > the Message-ID header especially for usenet and puts the original MID in
> > X-Original-Message-ID, which is a custom header.
> > I'm fairly certain that merely taking the X-Original-Message-ID info
> > of the message one wishes to reply to and puting it in the In-Reply-To
> > field of the reply is the trick to reading from usenet without breaking
> > threads posting. The References won't matter.
> > 
> > This post was done that way, so let me know.
> > 
> > :)
> 
> This post only shows:
> 
> Message-ID: <20110605183552.GA23307@gaurahari.merseine.nu>
>

Yes, but does it appear correctly threaded?

BTW this sort of thing is just one example of why I prefer mutt.
Not sure why some MUAs and newsreaders insist on making a secret 
of the original, actual, message headers, but I tend not to trust 
software that does that sort of thing. Probably it's just the 
result of a misguided "no-one wants all that 'extra' info cluttering 
things up" belief, but you never know.

-- 
klaatu virada nicto

Re: [gentoo-user] Threads changing Was: OT: website design

[Dale]

David W Noon wrote:
>
> Are we all confused enough for this weekend? ... :-)
>    

Ya'll lost me long ago.  What exactly is past confusion anyway?  I think 
that is where I am now.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 21:36 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine 
thusly:

> > > This post was done that way, so let me know.
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > :)
> >
> > 
> >
> > This post only shows:
> > 
> >
> > Message-ID: <20110605183552.GA23307@gaurahari.merseine.nu>
> 
> Yes, but does it appear correctly threaded?

Yes, it is now correct.

KMail threads it correctly using it's "perfect" setting - not using references 
and subject lines. The last 5 messages all thread correctly back to this one 
by David:

Message-ID: <20110605164819.0b013841@karnak.local>

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design

[Indi]

On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 10:16:01PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Apparently, though unproven, at 21:36 on Sunday 05 June 2011, Indi did opine 
> thusly:
> 
> > > > This post was done that way, so let me know.
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > > :)
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > This post only shows:
> > > 
> > >
> > > Message-ID: <20110605183552.GA23307@gaurahari.merseine.nu>
> > 
> > Yes, but does it appear correctly threaded?
> 
> Yes, it is now correct.
> 
> KMail threads it correctly using it's "perfect" setting - not using references 
> and subject lines. The last 5 messages all thread correctly back to this one 
> by David:
> 
> Message-ID: <20110605164819.0b013841@karnak.local>
> 
> 

Thanks!

-- 
klaatu virada nicto