Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[David W Noon]

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On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:00:02 +0200, Neil Bothwick wrote about Re:
[gentoo-user] setting locale:

>On Mon, 30 May 2011 15:43:19 +0100, David W Noon wrote:
>
>> Moreover, I never use file redirection from echo when a text editor
>> is a more appropriate tool.  What you have suggested above could well
>> replace a valid locale setting with an that invalid one, without any
>> checks at all on the existing contents of the file.  So, it's best to
>> use vim, nano or even emacs for such a job.
>
>Setting noclobber in /etc/profile.d/*shopts.sh avoids that particular
>problem, as well was the one of accidentally nuking a file when you
>meant to add to it with >>.

Setting noclobber is fine for not obliterating the current contents of
the file, but it does not help where the current contents need to be
updated.  That is why I *always* use a text editor to modify
configuration files.
-- 
Regards,

Dave  [RLU #314465]
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
dwnoon@ntlworld.com (David W Noon)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

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Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:46:47 +0100, David W Noon wrote:

> >Setting noclobber in /etc/profile.d/*shopts.sh avoids that particular
> >problem, as well was the one of accidentally nuking a file when you
> >meant to add to it with >>.  
> 
> Setting noclobber is fine for not obliterating the current contents of
> the file, but it does not help where the current contents need to be
> updated.  That is why I *always* use a text editor to modify
> configuration files.

True, sed is a good choice for that.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

EASY TO INSTALL = Difficult to install, but instruction manual has
pictures.

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Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[Nils Larsson]

Eh... Right, so ...

The echo example might have been a bit blunt. I've found myself using echo 
examples as a general "you need to add this setting here" device, like you 
learn to do when you start using Gentoo, might have been a bit presumptuous of 
me.

As for the incorrect locale string, copy&paste from parent.

Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[David Relson]

On Mon, 30 May 2011 22:34:46 +0200
Nils Larsson wrote:

> Eh... Right, so ...
> 
> The echo example might have been a bit blunt. I've found myself using
> echo examples as a general "you need to add this setting here"
> device, like you learn to do when you start using Gentoo, might have
> been a bit presumptuous of me.
> 
> As for the incorrect locale string, copy&paste from parent.
> 

Why not use "echo >> ..." ?? 

Since the ">>" does an append, the original file contents are still
available for reference. 

Since the added line is at the end of the file, the new value will be
used instead of the old value.

Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[William Hubbs]

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On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 07:19:16AM -0400, David Relson wrote:
> Why not use "echo >> ..." ?? 
> 
> Since the ">>" does an append, the original file contents are still
> available for reference. 
> 
> Since the added line is at the end of the file, the new value will be
> used instead of the old value.

In this case though, to set the locale properly, you should set LANG or
LC_CTYPE and not set any of the other LC_* variables. If you are setting
the other variables, those settings should be removed.

William


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Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[Mick]

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On Tuesday 31 May 2011 16:44:25 William Hubbs wrote:
> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 07:19:16AM -0400, David Relson wrote:
> > Why not use "echo >> ..." ??
> > 
> > Since the ">>" does an append, the original file contents are still
> > available for reference.
> > 
> > Since the added line is at the end of the file, the new value will be
> > used instead of the old value.
> 
> In this case though, to set the locale properly, you should set LANG or
> LC_CTYPE and not set any of the other LC_* variables. If you are setting
> the other variables, those settings should be removed.

Unless you want some of them to be different?

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[David W Noon]

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On Mon, 30 May 2011 04:20:01 +0200, Nils Larsson wrote about Re:
[gentoo-user] setting locale:

>måndagen den 30 maj 2011 03:26:49 skrev  Allan Gottlieb:
>> What must I do to get "en_US_utf8" ?
>
>echo "LANG=en_US_utf8" > /etc/env.d/02locale
>and
>env-update
>should work.

Not likely.  The correct locale string is "en_US.UTF-8", not the mess
that is written above.

Moreover, I never use file redirection from echo when a text editor is
a more appropriate tool.  What you have suggested above could well
replace a valid locale setting with an that invalid one, without any
checks at all on the existing contents of the file.  So, it's best to
use vim, nano or even emacs for such a job.
-- 
Regards,

Dave  [RLU #314465]
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
dwnoon@ntlworld.com (David W Noon)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

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Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 30 May 2011 15:43:19 +0100, David W Noon wrote:

> Moreover, I never use file redirection from echo when a text editor is
> a more appropriate tool.  What you have suggested above could well
> replace a valid locale setting with an that invalid one, without any
> checks at all on the existing contents of the file.  So, it's best to
> use vim, nano or even emacs for such a job.

Setting noclobber in /etc/profile.d/*shopts.sh avoids that particular
problem, as well was the one of accidentally nuking a file when you meant
to add to it with >>.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Microbiology: staph only.

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Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[Florian Philipp]

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Am 30.05.2011 16:43, schrieb David W Noon:
> On Mon, 30 May 2011 04:20:01 +0200, Nils Larsson wrote about Re:
> [gentoo-user] setting locale:
> 
>> måndagen den 30 maj 2011 03:26:49 skrev  Allan Gottlieb:
>>> What must I do to get "en_US_utf8" ?
>>
>> echo "LANG=en_US_utf8" > /etc/env.d/02locale
>> and
>> env-update
>> should work.
> 
> Not likely.  The correct locale string is "en_US.UTF-8", not the mess
> that is written above.
> 

Please stay polite. It also saves you the effort of writing those words. ;)

> Moreover, I never use file redirection from echo when a text editor is
> a more appropriate tool.  What you have suggested above could well
> replace a valid locale setting with an that invalid one, without any
> checks at all on the existing contents of the file.  So, it's best to
> use vim, nano or even emacs for such a job.

Sure thing. However, it is much faster to type `echo foo > bar` than
writing "Open your favorite file editor and enter 'foo' into 'bar'."
Being concise is often the better approach when you want to show a
solution to the problem at hand instead of educating the reader.

Everyone who is able to install Gentoo should be able to understand the
shell line and use whatever approach he wants to achieve the same result
and if he is satisfied with the given line, he has a copy-and-paste
solution at hand (my colleagues call this "service to the reader").

Regards,
Florian Philipp


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Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[Dale]

Florian Philipp wrote:
>
> Sure thing. However, it is much faster to type `echo foo>  bar` than
> writing "Open your favorite file editor and enter 'foo' into 'bar'."
> Being concise is often the better approach when you want to show a
> solution to the problem at hand instead of educating the reader.
>
> Everyone who is able to install Gentoo should be able to understand the
> shell line and use whatever approach he wants to achieve the same result
> and if he is satisfied with the given line, he has a copy-and-paste
> solution at hand (my colleagues call this "service to the reader").
>
> Regards,
> Florian Philipp
>
>    


Yep, one could write to open a file with nano or vi.  If the user knows 
what he/she is doing, opening it with kwrite would work just as good, 
unless the GUI is broken.  I often get help from folks who say to edit a 
file one way but I may do something with a different tool than they 
use.  Prime example being vi compared to nano.  Does the same thing but 
a different tool.  It's a matter of preferences is all.  I use nano but 
if someone writes to use vi, I know how to change the command to work 
with nano.

The biggest thing is, if a problem can't be solved on this list, it's a 
BIG problem or a nifty new feature.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[Allan Gottlieb]

On Mon, May 30 2011, David W. Noon wrote:

> On Mon, 30 May 2011 04:20:01 +0200, Nils Larsson wrote about Re:
> [gentoo-user] setting locale:
>
>>måndagen den 30 maj 2011 03:26:49 skrev  Allan Gottlieb:
>>> What must I do to get "en_US_utf8" ?
>>
>>echo "LANG=en_US_utf8" > /etc/env.d/02locale
>>and
>>env-update
>>should work.
>
> The correct locale string is "en_US.UTF-8".

Thank you this fixed the problem.
allan

Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[daid kahl]

On 30 May 2011 20:58, Allan Gottlieb <gottlieb@nyu.edu> wrote:
> On Mon, May 30 2011, David W. Noon wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 30 May 2011 04:20:01 +0200, Nils Larsson wrote about Re:
>> [gentoo-user] setting locale:
>>
>>>måndagen den 30 maj 2011 03:26:49 skrev  Allan Gottlieb:
>>>> What must I do to get "en_US_utf8" ?
>>>
>>>echo "LANG=en_US_utf8" > /etc/env.d/02locale
>>>and
>>>env-update
>>>should work.
>>
>> The correct locale string is "en_US.UTF-8".
>
> Thank you this fixed the problem.
> allan
>

Indeed, my own notes are exactly the same as here.

As far as the other debates on how to most concisely express the idea,
my notes to myself read as the result rather than say "how to edit
config files".  Spill the contents to the screen and you need to see
that (or similar for different locale than US).

daid@flux ~ % cat /etc/env.d/02locale
LANG="en_US.UTF-8"

Is there any kind of project using even a simple GUI like zenity for
doing config file editing in Gentoo?  I could use some good way to
organize that stuff some days.

Cheers,
daid

[gentoo-user] setting locale

[Allan Gottlieb]

On one of my machines all the LC_ variables are "POSIX".
I want them to be "en_US.utf8" as on my other machines.

I have the done the following (from the handbook)

1.  cat /etc/local.gen (ignoring comments)

   en_US ISO-8859-1
   en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8

2.  locale-gen

3.  source /etc/profile

4.  locale

   LANG=
   LC_CTYPE="POSIX"
   LC_NUMERIC="POSIX"
   LC_TIME="POSIX"
   and others as well
   LC_All=

What must I do to get "en_US_utf8" ?

thanks,
allan

Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[Nils Larsson]

måndagen den 30 maj 2011 03:26:49 skrev  Allan Gottlieb:
> What must I do to get "en_US_utf8" ?

echo "LANG=en_US_utf8" > /etc/env.d/02locale
and
env-update
should work.

Re: [gentoo-user] setting locale

[Allan Gottlieb]

On Sun, May 29 2011, Nils Larsson wrote:

> måndagen den 30 maj 2011 03:26:49 skrev  Allan Gottlieb:
>> What must I do to get "en_US_utf8" ?
>
> echo "LANG=en_US_utf8" > /etc/env.d/02locale
> and
> env-update
> should work.

Thanks.  It just needed
source /etc/profile

at the end.  The variables are now correct but there are still problems.

1.  locale complains

    oldlap ~ # locale
    locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
    locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory
    locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory
    LANG=en_US_utf8
    LC_CTYPE="en_US_utf8"
    LC_NUMERIC="en_US_utf8"
    LC_TIME="en_US_utf8"
    LC_COLLATE="en_US_utf8"
    LC_MONETARY="en_US_utf8"
    LC_MESSAGES="en_US_utf8"
    LC_PAPER="en_US_utf8"
    LC_NAME="en_US_utf8"
    LC_ADDRESS="en_US_utf8"
    LC_TELEPHONE="en_US_utf8"
    LC_MEASUREMENT="en_US_utf8"
    LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US_utf8"
    LC_ALL=
    oldlap ~ # 

2.  ca-certificates complains during emerge

2A.
    perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
    perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings:
            LANGUAGE = (unset),
            LC_ALL = (unset),
            LANG = "en_US_utf8"
        are supported and installed on your system.
    perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C").
    >>> cfg-update-1.8.2-r1: Creating checksum index...

that was expected from above

2B.
   * This package installs one or more file names containing characters that
   * do not match your current locale settings. The current setting for
   * filesystem encoding is 'ANSI_X3.4-1968'.
   * 
   * 	usr/share/ca-certificates/mozilla/AC_Ra\ufffd\ufffdz_Certic\ufffd\ufffdmara_S.A..crt

plus other certificates.  Perhaps fixing 2A would fix this as well??

2C.  The following has unreadable characters
    Updating certificates in /etc/ssl/certs... W: /usr/share/ca-certificates/mozilla/AC_Ra��z_Certic��mara_S.A..crt not found, but listed in /etc/ca-certificates.conf.
    W: /usr/share/ca-certificates/mozilla/EBG_Elektronik_Sertifika_Hizmet_Sa��lay��c��s��.crt not found, but listed in /etc/ca-certificates.conf.
    W: /usr/share/ca-certificates/mozilla/NetLock_Arany_=Class_Gold=_F��tan��s��tv��ny.crt not found, but listed in /etc/ca-certificates.conf.
    W: /usr/share/ca-certificates/mozilla/T��B��TAK_UEKAE_K��k_Sertifika_Hizmet_Sa��lay��c��s��_-_S��r��m_3.crt not found, but listed in /etc/ca-certificates.conf.
    0 added, 0 removed; done.

thanks again,
allan