From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1QKcxr-0008Sr-1g for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 12 May 2011 20:58:31 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BE1BF1C06E; Thu, 12 May 2011 20:55:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ww0-f53.google.com (mail-ww0-f53.google.com [74.125.82.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70D6E1C06E for ; Thu, 12 May 2011 20:55:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wwj40 with SMTP id 40so1972402wwj.10 for ; Thu, 12 May 2011 13:55:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :message-id; bh=6pA4K9m3H87YPQHG8/K2MMuiPFQzFgeIY5J+GLyXFBs=; b=I4YpfqT0GD/GPCatedh2H6YtnJe6HqUcVU6VBMgtbyJL7CAvd5i/t+pk8Py8ghFJN9 eGegHWtR8g3xqy2eYyARVHnqIlIBBumJSn4HwV+VzjoxYJkBRhSBmbyjQ4vKCRKRsl0B PVS19wUkiAjts/p7AC1z56z/EN5QIgA99V4IQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; b=tn+swxrwZXXhzGZqXgtAp3dLfe67PoU/tbSDTuplDk/RQhJeEA5vUfL4yVggOvRLWP 6104OcYW9kFNItVtz/SKS8GQMh/T79EcT219WDimoUTblMpnC2zscP+7BXzKPBoxrndM hlqbPpSNZBgaLgoJV2EUvy8J4vR6/vW67hkls= Received: by 10.227.183.133 with SMTP id cg5mr671782wbb.49.1305233754651; Thu, 12 May 2011 13:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nazgul.localnet (196-215-114-244.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.215.114.244]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w12sm979032wby.7.2011.05.12.13.55.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 12 May 2011 13:55:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How's the openrc update going for everyone? Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 22:55:00 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (Linux/2.6.38-ck; KDE/4.6.3; x86_64; ; ) References: <20110512150610.GA1937@gaurahari> In-Reply-To: <20110512150610.GA1937@gaurahari> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201105122255.01427.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: a96929fb30b387a04f8910d463f98fbe Apparently, though unproven, at 17:06 on Thursday 12 May 2011, Indi did opine thusly: > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 04:40:02PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > Apparently, though unproven, at 16:00 on Thursday 12 May 2011, Indi did > > opine > > > > thusly: > > > I had 8 users on kde before 3 was deprecated in 2009. > > > Now I have zero. It was a harrowing time, switching > > > everyone to gnome, finding that is not so hot, finally > > > putting them on xfce. If xfce gets a wild hair and changes > > > my plan is to dumb down the fluxbox or openbox > > > configs I have for my own use, add some scripting and call > > > it a day. > > > > So why didn't you just leave the users on KDE3? > > For the same reason I didn't leave them on windows 98 se. > Yes, it technically "still works" but is far less useful > than it was when it was enthusiastically supported by its > creators and still considered one of two default choices > for DE duty. > > I'm sorry if this discussion has offended you, Alan. > That was certainly not my intent. No, you didn't offend me. I usually talk and type like that. > However, admins with stories like mine are not at all uncommon, > and the bottom line is that kde4 lost a lot of users to other > DEs. The kde devs clearly bit off more than could chew, but > obviously that's water under the bridge now. But to deny it or > make excuses now does no service to anyone. "Oops, better not do > that again", is what we all hope they learned. We all make mistakes, > just don't make the same ones repeatedly! :) Your first three sentences above contain huge sweeping generalities disguised as facts, but all they really are is "what Indi thinks". If you are going to make comments like that, you have to back them up with some kind of independant unbiased metrics, otherwise you are talking through a hole in your ass. I have what I think might be an interesting exercise. One of the machines I admin is an enormous ftp server that serves an entire continent. It hosts every major (and many minor) distros, including gentoo and it's distfiles. One day when I'm motivated enough to do it, I might just draw download stats per distro for packages with kde in the name and plot this going back to before KDE-4.0.0 was released. I feel the numbers might prove very interesting. I won't be doing it today though, the motivation is not there (in the same way that the authors of KDE didn't have the motivation to maintain kde3 anymore). -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com