[gentoo-user] Gentoo Live 11.0

[gentoo-user] Gentoo Live 11.0

[James]

Anybody tested out the new liveDVD-11.0?

It's always nice to burn a copy and visit your local computer/laptop
store and testdrive both; imho....

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Gentoo-Linux-11-0-Has-Been-Released-188578.shtml
or
http://www.gentoo.org/


Anybody get a brief explanation or summary between the hybrid and the
multilib versions?

I read this, but it did not "turn on the light" as to when
to use which version (profile?) multilib vs hybrid:

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-amd64-faq.xml#difference


I guess I just really looking for some discussion/experience on
multilib versus hybrid... as mention in the www.gentoo.org announcement.

For example, there is a version of the live11.0 called Hybrid
and the other Multilib; not exactly; eselect does not mention the 
word "hybrid". So is Hybrid a profile or just some random
liveDVD different from the multilib liveDVD choice? 

livedvd-amd64-multilib-11.0.iso
livedvd-x86-amd64-32ul-11.0.iso

Any experiences installing off the new liveDVD would be
of keen interest to me.


James

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Live 11.0

[Mark Knecht]

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 9:19 AM, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> Anybody get a brief explanation or summary between the hybrid and the
> multilib versions?
>

Hybrid runs on either 32-bit or 64-bit hardware.

MultilLib requires 64-bit hardware.

HTH,
Mark

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Live 11.0

[James]

Mark Knecht <markknecht <at> gmail.com> writes:


> Hybrid runs on either 32-bit or 64-bit hardware.
> MultilLib requires 64-bit hardware.
Thanks Mark,

Yep, got that. There is no "hybrid" profile? Not
that I can find.

Is what about all those 32 bit goodies like plugins
window-compatibility-software etc etc?

So the only real question is does my amd64 machines
need hybrid in some circumstances, like depending
of the software that I run?  If so, is there a listing
of software that needs the 32 bit support?

eselect profile list:
  [1]   default/linux/amd64/10.0
  [2]   default/linux/amd64/10.0/desktop
  [3]   default/linux/amd64/10.0/desktop/gnome
  [4]   default/linux/amd64/10.0/desktop/kde *
  [5]   default/linux/amd64/10.0/developer
  [6]   default/linux/amd64/10.0/no-multilib
  [7]   default/linux/amd64/10.0/server
  [8]   hardened/linux/amd64
  [9]   hardened/linux/amd64/no-multilib
  [10]  selinux/2007.0/amd64
  [11]  selinux/2007.0/amd64/hardened
  [12]  selinux/v2refpolicy/amd64
  [13]  selinux/v2refpolicy/amd64/desktop
  [14]  selinux/v2refpolicy/amd64/developer
  [15]  selinux/v2refpolicy/amd64/hardened
  [16]  selinux/v2refpolicy/amd64/server

Is this the profile [6] or [9] the hybrid, indicating
that "hybrid" means "no-multilib", strictly ? 
Are servers affected (profile choice) by this 
hybrid-mulitlib issue, or just work-stations?

Are AMD64 systems set up to be multilib by defaut;
say for example if I set the profile to [1] ?

Where do I read up on this issue of multilib
versus hybrid? I find tidbits, but no discussion,
overview or focus on the choices  and when
a user should select one over the other, 
beyond support for 32 bit software. If I  recall
correctly there are a plethora of software issues
related to browsers, video(media) and things like
flash that may depend on 32 bit software plugins
or support?

I'm not really up on this choice and the implications
of decision. 

When will we see new profile choices (no sync in a week or so)?


James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Live 11.0

[Mark Knecht]

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 7:55 AM, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Mark Knecht <markknecht <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>> Hybrid runs on either 32-bit or 64-bit hardware.
>> MultilLib requires 64-bit hardware.
> Thanks Mark,
>
> Yep, got that. There is no "hybrid" profile? Not
> that I can find.
>
> Is what about all those 32 bit goodies like plugins
> window-compatibility-software etc etc?
>

Generally yes, or that's my understanding.

> So the only real question is does my amd64 machines
> need hybrid in some circumstances, like depending
> of the software that I run?  If so, is there a listing
> of software that needs the 32 bit support?
>

Yes, it's based on the software_ you_ choose to install. I may be
wrong but I think a default Gentoo 64-bit install to the level of
@system booting the machine and little at all in
/var/lib/portage/world won't install the 32-bit emulation libraries.

Run

eix -I emul-linux-x86

to see which ones you have installed and

equery depends

to see what packages depend on each one you do have installed. (If any)

Hope this helps,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Live 11.0

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:55:57 +0000 (UTC), James wrote:

> Yep, got that. There is no "hybrid" profile? Not
> that I can find.

It's not a hybrid in that sense, it's a dual boot DVD with 32 bit and 64
bit software. You choose whether to boot a 32 bit or 64 bit system each
time.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Found my .sig, it was in behind the cushion on the settee.

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[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Live 11.0

[James]

Neil Bothwick <neil <at> digimed.co.uk> writes:

> It's not a hybrid in that sense, it's a dual boot DVD with 32 bit and 64
> bit software. You choose whether to boot a 32 bit or 64 bit system each
> time.

OK Mark and Neil. I got the picture. I'll flush
this out as I do seem to still have some
32bit apps on the 64bit AMD systems. Most likely
I can get rid of these.

I'll post a new thread if I have questions.


thanks,

James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Live 11.0

[Walter Dnes]

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:52:25PM +0000, James wrote

> OK Mark and Neil. I got the picture. I'll flush
> this out as I do seem to still have some
> 32bit apps on the 64bit AMD systems. Most likely
> I can get rid of these.

  WINE, which runs some Windows apps, will not build on a 64-bit system
without multilib support.  I found that out "the hard way" after
installing pure 64-bit on my machine.  Rather than wipe+reinstall, I
ended up installing a 32-bit Gentoo guest under qemu-kvm, and installed
WINE on that.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Live 11.0

[James]

Walter Dnes <waltdnes <at> waltdnes.org> writes:


>   WINE, which runs some Windows apps, will not build on a 64-bit system
> without multilib support.  I found that out "the hard way" after
> installing pure 64-bit on my machine.  Rather than wipe+reinstall, I
> ended up installing a 32-bit Gentoo guest under qemu-kvm, and installed
> WINE on that.


Walter, 
You have confused me. First you indicate that multilib is
needed for WINE. Then you indicate that you had to use the
32 bit mixed mode (no multilib).... under  qemu-kvm, and 
and then install WINE under the 32 bit qemu.

So if you were installing a system, just to run wine, would it
be multilib or hybrid (64 and 32 bit) ?


James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Live 11.0

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:05 AM, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Walter Dnes <waltdnes <at> waltdnes.org> writes:
>
>
>>   WINE, which runs some Windows apps, will not build on a 64-bit system
>> without multilib support.  I found that out "the hard way" after
>> installing pure 64-bit on my machine.  Rather than wipe+reinstall, I
>> ended up installing a 32-bit Gentoo guest under qemu-kvm, and installed
>> WINE on that.
>
>
> Walter,
> You have confused me. First you indicate that multilib is
> needed for WINE. Then you indicate that you had to use the
> 32 bit mixed mode (no multilib).... under  qemu-kvm, and
> and then install WINE under the 32 bit qemu.
>
> So if you were installing a system, just to run wine, would it
> be multilib or hybrid (64 and 32 bit) ?
>
>
> James

James,

1) Wine is 32-bit
2) Walter had a 64-bit only system
3) Walter had 2 choices:

a) Wipe the system and start over making it a multi-lib system
b) Create a 32-bit chroot

He chose b).

It's not possible to 'install a system to ONLY run Wine', but if you
want to run Windows apps you have 3 choices:

1) Install 32-bit Gentoo on your 64-bit hardware. Not very interesting to me.
2) Install 64-bit Gentoo with multi-lib support. This is what I do,
although I don't run Wine anymore as I use Vbox & VMware.
3) Install 64-bit Gentoo without multi-lib support and run which in a
32-bit chroot. Double the Gentoo maintenance because you are now
required to keep both the 32-bit & 64-bit installs up-to-date.

Hope this help.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Live 11.0

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:24:28 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:

> > So if you were installing a system, just to run wine, would it
> > be multilib or hybrid (64 and 32 bit) ?

There's no such thing as a hybrid system. Multilib is what you need to
run 32 bit software.

> 1) Wine is 32-bit
> 2) Walter had a 64-bit only system
> 3) Walter had 2 choices:
> 
> a) Wipe the system and start over making it a multi-lib system
> b) Create a 32-bit chroot

Actually, he set up a 32-bit VM, in which case he may have been able to do

c) Install Windows in the VM.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Fer sail cheep, Windows spel chekcer, wurks grate

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Live 11.0

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:24:28 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>> > So if you were installing a system, just to run wine, would it
>> > be multilib or hybrid (64 and 32 bit) ?
>
> There's no such thing as a hybrid system. Multilib is what you need to
> run 32 bit software.
>
>> 1) Wine is 32-bit
>> 2) Walter had a 64-bit only system
>> 3) Walter had 2 choices:
>>
>> a) Wipe the system and start over making it a multi-lib system
>> b) Create a 32-bit chroot
>
> Actually, he set up a 32-bit VM, in which case he may have been able to do
>
> c) Install Windows in the VM.
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick

OK, that's a different reading of his words. You are likely correct,
and that's identical to what I do using VMWare to run 32-bit XP or
Virtualbox to run 64-bit Win 7. No reason for VMWare other than it's
the one I started with. I've found over the last year I prefer
Virtualbox.

Cheers,
Mark

[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Live 11.0

[James]

Neil Bothwick <neil <at> digimed.co.uk> writes:


> > > So if you were installing a system, just to run wine, would it
> > > be multilib or hybrid (64 and 32 bit) ?

> There's no such thing as a hybrid system. Multilib is what you need to
> run 32 bit software.

Right; that's just the name used to describe the other than multilib
liveDVD. Ah, (like turning on) I see that multilib is the 64+32 bit
version. I now do not understand why 'hybrid" was used at all...
oh well.

> > 1) Wine is 32-bit
> > 2) Walter had a 64-bit only system
> > 3) Walter had 2 choices:
> > a) Wipe the system and start over making it a multi-lib system
> > b) Create a 32-bit chroot

OK, got it.
....
When I look in ~pub/gentoo/releases/amd64/11.0/

I see these:
livedvd-amd64-multilib-11.0.iso

livedvd-x86-amd64-32ul-11.0.iso

But the author's review used the term
"hybrid" and therefor confused me....

it would seem that the 32ul-11.0.iso
version would be the one to run 32
bit software on?

but when you look at profile choices
on a 64bit AMD system, you see
"no-multilib" implying that everything
is multilib, unless specified....

Sorry for being so dense on this.
the name "hybrid" just confused me 
to no end, when actually it was the 64-bit-only
version of the software;profile;etc....
 


thanks,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Live 11.0

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 10:59 AM, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> it would seem that the 32ul-11.0.iso
> version would be the one to run 32
> bit software on?
<SNIP>

I cannot speak for the LiveDVD as I've not tried it but remember there
are still lots of older machines running 32-processors in them that
need a 32-bit only DVD to install at all. I suspect the purpose of the
32-bit DVD is to support those boxes.

As evidence of the growth of 64-bit machines in at least the vocal
part of the Gentoo users (those using the user's lists) I started
running 64-bit Gentoo about 5-6 years and at this time no longer even
own any (working) 32-bit machines. Up until about 3 years ago the
Gentoo amd64 list had all the 64-bit specific question traffic. As of
today that list is almost totally quiet implying that nearly all
64-bit users are just using this list and most folks see no
distinction anymore. If that's true then it's easy to forget that
there may be lots of quiet 32-bit users still out there.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Live 11.0

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:59:09 +0000 (UTC), James wrote:

> > There's no such thing as a hybrid system. Multilib is what you need to
> > run 32 bit software.  
> 
> Right; that's just the name used to describe the other than multilib
> liveDVD. Ah, (like turning on) I see that multilib is the 64+32 bit
> version. I now do not understand why 'hybrid" was used at all...
> oh well.

We've already covered this; the term hybrid is used to describe a dual
boot DVD for x86 and x86_64 systems.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Love is grand. Divorce is a few grand more.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Live 11.0

[Bill Longman]

On 03/17/2011 11:41 AM, Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 10:59 AM, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> <SNIP>
>>
>> it would seem that the 32ul-11.0.iso
>> version would be the one to run 32
>> bit software on?
> <SNIP>
> 
> I cannot speak for the LiveDVD as I've not tried it but remember there
> are still lots of older machines running 32-processors in them that
> need a 32-bit only DVD to install at all. I suspect the purpose of the
> 32-bit DVD is to support those boxes.
> 
> As evidence of the growth of 64-bit machines in at least the vocal
> part of the Gentoo users (those using the user's lists) I started
> running 64-bit Gentoo about 5-6 years and at this time no longer even
> own any (working) 32-bit machines. Up until about 3 years ago the
> Gentoo amd64 list had all the 64-bit specific question traffic. As of
> today that list is almost totally quiet implying that nearly all
> 64-bit users are just using this list and most folks see no
> distinction anymore. If that's true then it's easy to forget that
> there may be lots of quiet 32-bit users still out there.

I'll second your comments, Mark. I now have only my trusty Dell 600SC
still running 32-bit but that's only because that's all it can do. Had
it a 64-bit CPU I would be completely devoid of the 32-bit platform on
any of my personal machines. I have to remember, now, when I am working
on that machine, that *it* is now the one-off machine, not the other way
around like it had been three years ago.

All in all, I'd have to say that the move from 32 to 64 has gone rather
painlessly on Gentoo, so, hat's off to the folks on this list and all
the Gentoo devs.