[gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Brian Waters]

Hi there. I recently took a few months off from Gentoo to try Ubuntu
(I heard it "just works", and that is a Good Thing) only to find that
I'd much rather be back on Gentoo again. (The fact that Ubuntu ships
with PulseAudio means that sound it basically broken out of the box,
and I'm excited for Xfce 4.8.)

It's been a few months since I've been around, and I'd like to know if
HAL has been fully deprecated yet. I'd like to avoid using it if at
all possible, since that seems to be the way of the future. So I'm
wondering what versions of udev and X server (and any other packages,
dbus maybe?) I need to unmask in order to get rid of the HAL
dependency.

Thanks a lot!

- BW

Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Brian Waters <brianmwaters@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
> So I'm
> wondering what versions of udev and X server (and any other packages,
> dbus maybe?) I need to unmask in order to get rid of the HAL
> dependency.

Using GNOME, the only package that depends by default on HAL is
gnome-power-manager (+hal dependency). Excepting for that one, if you
remove hal from your use flags nothing will try to pull it. I'm not
sure with Xfce or KDE.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Instituto de Matemáticas
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Brian Waters]

Thanks Canek, that's perfect because for this upcoming install I'm
planning on using acpid for power management anyway. I don't think
power management is something that should run as a regular logged in
user, and it causes problems like your laptop not sleeping when you're
logged out with the login screen up, which is pretty dumb. Although
I'm not sure you can easily use acpid to "do something after 10
minutes of inactivity," so that will probably take jiggery pokery to
figure out.
Anyway, I digress. Maybe I'll start a thread on that when the time comes.

- BW


On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Brian Waters <brianmwaters@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>> So I'm
>> wondering what versions of udev and X server (and any other packages,
>> dbus maybe?) I need to unmask in order to get rid of the HAL
>> dependency.
>
> Using GNOME, the only package that depends by default on HAL is
> gnome-power-manager (+hal dependency). Excepting for that one, if you
> remove hal from your use flags nothing will try to pull it. I'm not
> sure with Xfce or KDE.
>
> Regards.
> --
> Canek Peláez Valdés
> Instituto de Matemáticas
> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[KH]

Am 03.02.2011 00:20, schrieb Brian Waters:
> Anyway, I digress. Maybe I'll start a thread on that when the time comes.
> 
> - BW

Hi,

you might want to take a look at the forums:

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-858965-highlight-.html

Regards
kh

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[gentoo-user] Re: Avoiding HAL

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/03/2011 12:59 AM, Brian Waters wrote:
>[...]
> It's been a few months since I've been around, and I'd like to know if
> HAL has been fully deprecated yet. I'd like to avoid using it if at
> all possible, since that seems to be the way of the future. So I'm
> wondering what versions of udev and X server (and any other packages,
> dbus maybe?) I need to unmask in order to get rid of the HAL
> dependency.

To see that, put "-hal" in your make.conf, and check your package.use 
too to make sure there's no "hal" enabling in there.  Then unmerge the 
hal package and do an "emerge -aDNt --with-bdeps=y world".  If something 
pulls hal back in, it's gonna show due to the "t" option of emerge.

Hope that helps.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Avoiding HAL

[Dale]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 02/03/2011 12:59 AM, Brian Waters wrote:
>> [...]
>> It's been a few months since I've been around, and I'd like to know if
>> HAL has been fully deprecated yet. I'd like to avoid using it if at
>> all possible, since that seems to be the way of the future. So I'm
>> wondering what versions of udev and X server (and any other packages,
>> dbus maybe?) I need to unmask in order to get rid of the HAL
>> dependency.
>
> To see that, put "-hal" in your make.conf, and check your package.use 
> too to make sure there's no "hal" enabling in there.  Then unmerge the 
> hal package and do an "emerge -aDNt --with-bdeps=y world".  If 
> something pulls hal back in, it's gonna show due to the "t" option of 
> emerge.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
>
>


The way i read his post, which may not be read correctly, he doesn't 
have a Gentoo install at the moment to run those commands.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Paul Hartman]

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Brian Waters <brianmwaters@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi there. I recently took a few months off from Gentoo to try Ubuntu
> (I heard it "just works", and that is a Good Thing) only to find that
> I'd much rather be back on Gentoo again. (The fact that Ubuntu ships
> with PulseAudio means that sound it basically broken out of the box,
> and I'm excited for Xfce 4.8.)
>
> It's been a few months since I've been around, and I'd like to know if
> HAL has been fully deprecated yet. I'd like to avoid using it if at
> all possible, since that seems to be the way of the future. So I'm
> wondering what versions of udev and X server (and any other packages,
> dbus maybe?) I need to unmask in order to get rid of the HAL
> dependency.
>
> Thanks a lot!

http://www.x.org/wiki/XorgHAL

Xorg 1.8 and newer should have udev-instead-of-HAL available.

Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Dale]

Brian Waters wrote:
> Hi there. I recently took a few months off from Gentoo to try Ubuntu
> (I heard it "just works", and that is a Good Thing) only to find that
> I'd much rather be back on Gentoo again. (The fact that Ubuntu ships
> with PulseAudio means that sound it basically broken out of the box,
> and I'm excited for Xfce 4.8.)
>
> It's been a few months since I've been around, and I'd like to know if
> HAL has been fully deprecated yet. I'd like to avoid using it if at
> all possible, since that seems to be the way of the future. So I'm
> wondering what versions of udev and X server (and any other packages,
> dbus maybe?) I need to unmask in order to get rid of the HAL
> dependency.
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
> - BW
>
>
>    

I use KDE here but with KDE 4.6, hal is gone.  I use xorg 1.9 and no hal 
there.  If nothing in xfce doesn't need it, then I think it is gone.  
All this is on amd64.  I'm in the process of updating my x86 rig so I 
could answer for it in a day or so.  Give me a poke if you need a 
report.  ;-)

Keep in mind, there are still a few packages that you CAN enable hal 
on.  They are disabled here and still work fine as far as I know.  I 
haven't burned a CD/DVD yet but k3b does see the drive and all.  I would 
think it would work.  That reminds me, I need to update some backups.  o_O

Hope that helps.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 01:59 on Thursday 03 February 2011, Dale did 
opine thusly:

> Brian Waters wrote:
> > Hi there. I recently took a few months off from Gentoo to try Ubuntu
> > (I heard it "just works", and that is a Good Thing) only to find that
> > I'd much rather be back on Gentoo again. (The fact that Ubuntu ships
> > with PulseAudio means that sound it basically broken out of the box,
> > and I'm excited for Xfce 4.8.)
> > 
> > It's been a few months since I've been around, and I'd like to know if
> > HAL has been fully deprecated yet. I'd like to avoid using it if at
> > all possible, since that seems to be the way of the future. So I'm
> > wondering what versions of udev and X server (and any other packages,
> > dbus maybe?) I need to unmask in order to get rid of the HAL
> > dependency.
> > 
> > Thanks a lot!
> > 
> > - BW
> 
> I use KDE here but with KDE 4.6, hal is gone.  I use xorg 1.9 and no hal
> there.  If nothing in xfce doesn't need it, then I think it is gone.
> All this is on amd64.  I'm in the process of updating my x86 rig so I
> could answer for it in a day or so.  Give me a poke if you need a
> report.  ;-)
> 
> Keep in mind, there are still a few packages that you CAN enable hal
> on.  They are disabled here and still work fine as far as I know.  I
> haven't burned a CD/DVD yet but k3b does see the drive and all.  I would
> think it would work.  That reminds me, I need to update some backups.  o_O

Everything left here is optional:

$ equery depends hal
 * These packages depend on hal:
app-cdr/k3b-2.0.2-r1 (hal ? sys-apps/hal)
app-emulation/wine-1.3.11 (hal ? sys-apps/hal)
app-misc/hal-info-20091130 (>=sys-apps/hal-0.5.10)
dev-libs/e_dbus-1.0.0 (hal ? sys-apps/hal)
media-gfx/gimp-2.6.11 (hal ? sys-apps/hal)
media-libs/libgphoto2-2.4.10 (hal ? >=sys-apps/hal-0.5)
media-tv/xbmc-10.0 (hal ? sys-apps/hal)


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Brian Waters]

I can't imagine why the GIMP would depend on HAL... lol.

And for the record, yes, I am not on Gentoo right now.

- BW

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> Apparently, though unproven, at 01:59 on Thursday 03 February 2011, Dale did
> opine thusly:
>
>> Brian Waters wrote:
>> > Hi there. I recently took a few months off from Gentoo to try Ubuntu
>> > (I heard it "just works", and that is a Good Thing) only to find that
>> > I'd much rather be back on Gentoo again. (The fact that Ubuntu ships
>> > with PulseAudio means that sound it basically broken out of the box,
>> > and I'm excited for Xfce 4.8.)
>> >
>> > It's been a few months since I've been around, and I'd like to know if
>> > HAL has been fully deprecated yet. I'd like to avoid using it if at
>> > all possible, since that seems to be the way of the future. So I'm
>> > wondering what versions of udev and X server (and any other packages,
>> > dbus maybe?) I need to unmask in order to get rid of the HAL
>> > dependency.
>> >
>> > Thanks a lot!
>> >
>> > - BW
>>
>> I use KDE here but with KDE 4.6, hal is gone.  I use xorg 1.9 and no hal
>> there.  If nothing in xfce doesn't need it, then I think it is gone.
>> All this is on amd64.  I'm in the process of updating my x86 rig so I
>> could answer for it in a day or so.  Give me a poke if you need a
>> report.  ;-)
>>
>> Keep in mind, there are still a few packages that you CAN enable hal
>> on.  They are disabled here and still work fine as far as I know.  I
>> haven't burned a CD/DVD yet but k3b does see the drive and all.  I would
>> think it would work.  That reminds me, I need to update some backups.  o_O
>
> Everything left here is optional:
>
> $ equery depends hal
>  * These packages depend on hal:
> app-cdr/k3b-2.0.2-r1 (hal ? sys-apps/hal)
> app-emulation/wine-1.3.11 (hal ? sys-apps/hal)
> app-misc/hal-info-20091130 (>=sys-apps/hal-0.5.10)
> dev-libs/e_dbus-1.0.0 (hal ? sys-apps/hal)
> media-gfx/gimp-2.6.11 (hal ? sys-apps/hal)
> media-libs/libgphoto2-2.4.10 (hal ? >=sys-apps/hal-0.5)
> media-tv/xbmc-10.0 (hal ? sys-apps/hal)
>
>
> --
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Dale]

Brian Waters wrote:
> I can't imagine why the GIMP would depend on HAL... lol.
>
> And for the record, yes, I am not on Gentoo right now.
>
> - BW
>
>    

In GIMP under the file menu, there is a option to get pictures from a 
camera.  I have never used that but I guess that is where hal comes in.  
It may be something else but that is all I could find.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Brian Waters]

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 1:41 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> In GIMP under the file menu, there is a option to get pictures from a
> camera.  I have never used that but I guess that is where hal comes in.  It
> may be something else but that is all I could find.

Christ, it's like .dll hell all over again.

There's probably a use flag to turn that off.

- BW

Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Dale]

Brian Waters wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 1:41 AM, Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
>    
>> In GIMP under the file menu, there is a option to get pictures from a
>> camera.  I have never used that but I guess that is where hal comes in.  It
>> may be something else but that is all I could find.
>>      
> Christ, it's like .dll hell all over again.
>
> There's probably a use flag to turn that off.
>
> - BW
>
>    

Yep, just disable hal for one.  Since hal is gone, dbus may be another 
that would disable that.  I don't see the need tho.  Until you asked, I 
didn't even notice that it was there.  Just don't use it.  I been using 
GIMP for a good while and still haven't figured out more than half of 
it.  I think it can do everything except wash dishes.  lol

I'm just glad to have something that doesn't kill my mouse and keyboard. 
;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

[OT] Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Peter Humphrey]

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On Thursday 03 February 2011 08:14:21 Dale wrote:

> I'm just glad to have something that doesn't kill my mouse and
> keyboard. ;-)

At the risk of hijacking the thread, this reminds me of a problem on my 
workstation. It runs Gentoo fine (well, sluggishly) but when I installed 
Fedora 14 to try it, I found the mouse and keyboard freezing (but not 
the display) at random times that ranged from one minute to several 
hours. When that happened I tried to log in via SSH but got a no-route-
to-host error. Then I remembered that the same thing had happened months 
earlier with Mandriva.

Anyone here have an idea? I've tried switching off everything I can think 
of in the BIOS, but no joy. Temperatures are fine according to gkrellm.

-- 
Rgds
Peter.          Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.

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Re: [OT] Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Peter Humphrey
<peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> On Thursday 03 February 2011 08:14:21 Dale wrote:
>
>> I'm just glad to have something that doesn't kill my mouse and
>
>> keyboard. ;-)
>
> At the risk of hijacking the thread, this reminds me of a problem on my
> workstation. It runs Gentoo fine (well, sluggishly) but when I installed
> Fedora 14 to try it, I found the mouse and keyboard freezing (but not the
> display) at random times that ranged from one minute to several hours. When
> that happened I tried to log in via SSH but got a no-route-to-host error.
> Then I remembered that the same thing had happened months earlier with
> Mandriva.
>
> Anyone here have an idea? I've tried switching off everything I can think of
> in the BIOS, but no joy. Temperatures are fine according to gkrellm.

Perhaps try a newer kernel version, if you can. I think there was one
in 2.6.35 era that did that kind of stuff... (I have no idea what F14
uses.)

Re: [OT] Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Peter Humphrey]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1132 bytes --]

On Friday 04 February 2011 18:12:50 Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Peter Humphrey
> <peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> > At the risk of hijacking the thread, this reminds me of a problem
> > on my workstation. It runs Gentoo fine (well, sluggishly) but when
> > I installed Fedora 14 to try it, I found the mouse and keyboard
> > freezing (but not the display) at random times that ranged from
> > one minute to several hours. When that happened I tried to log in
> > via SSH but got a no-route-to-host error. Then I remembered that
> > the same thing had happened months earlier with Mandriva.
> > 
> > Anyone here have an idea? I've tried switching off everything I can
> > think of in the BIOS, but no joy. Temperatures are fine according
> > to gkrellm.
> 
> Perhaps try a newer kernel version, if you can. I think there was one
> in 2.6.35 era that did that kind of stuff...

I'll look into that - thanks. Meanwhile, yesterday I even had a lockup 
while running from the live CD, so installing on this box is more a 
matter of luck than usual.

-- 
Rgds
Peter.          Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.

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[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Re: Avoiding HAL

[walt]

On 02/05/2011 05:09 AM, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> I even had a lockup while running from the live CD

Have you tried memtest86 on that machine?

Re: [OT] Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 08 February 2011 01:00:11 Keith Dart wrote:

> That really sounds like flaky hardware, possibly bad memory. try
> running memtest86+. Let it run overnight.

That's what I thought. I have run memtest86+ overnight, but of course it 
didn't find anything.

As Gentoo seems to be immune to this problem, I assume that other kernels 
are setting some parameters that push the hardware to its limit, so the next 
thing I'll try is to detune the performance somewhat. Trouble is, the BIOS 
setup screens have so many parameters to adjust that I don't know where to 
start.

-- 
Rgds
Peter.

Re: [OT] Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Keith Dart]

=== On Fri, 02/11, Peter Humphrey wrote: ===
> As Gentoo seems to be immune to this problem, I assume that other
> kernels are setting some parameters that push the hardware to its
> limit, so the next thing I'll try is to detune the performance
> somewhat. Trouble is, the BIOS setup screens have so many parameters
> to adjust that I don't know where to start.

===

Start by resetting to all defaults.. ;-) Many motherboards these days
support "unsafe" settings (overclocking, etc.) and warn you that you
can destabilize your board. If you, or anyone else, has ever tweaked
those it may be unstable. So try all defaults, or "safe settings" first
if you haven't already.


-- Keith Dart

-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith@dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

Re: [OT] Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday 12 February 2011 01:39:44 Keith Dart wrote:

> Start by resetting to all defaults.. ;-)

That was the obvious first step.

> Many motherboards these days support "unsafe" settings (overclocking,
> etc.)

Yes, this one does, but I've never used them.

> if you haven't already.

I have, as you see.

Re: [OT] Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Keith Dart]

=== On Sat, 02/12, Peter Humphrey wrote: ===
> That was the obvious first step.

===

Well then, I would use this as an excuse to get a nice new system. ;-)


-- Keith Dart

-- 

-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith@dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================

Re: [OT] Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday 12 February 2011 21:53:36 Keith Dart wrote:

> Well then, I would use this as an excuse to get a nice new system. ;-)

Nice idea. It's only a year old though, and I could hardly justify the 
expense then.

Thanks anyway.


-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Philip Webb]

110202 Brian Waters wrote:
> I recently took a few months off from Gentoo to try Ubuntu
> -- I heard it "just works" and that is a Good Thing --
> only to find that I'd much rather be back on Gentoo again.

When I set up my little EEE netbook 2009 , I considered alternatives,
but quickly decided that Gentoo really does just work & is a good thing,
ie once you've put in the time to install it properly.

> I'd like to know if HAL has been fully deprecated yet.

I eliminated it successfully a long time ago:
it seems to be needed by the KDE desktop, but not by the KDE apps I use.
I don't like the KDE 4 desktop, so use Fluxbox, which I strongly recommend
as something else which just works once you've set it up to taste.
BTW there are reports of problems with Xfce 4.8 .

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] Avoiding HAL

[Jacques Montier]

Le 02/02/2011 23:59, Brian Waters a écrit :
> Hi there. I recently took a few months off from Gentoo to try Ubuntu
> (I heard it "just works", and that is a Good Thing) only to find that
> I'd much rather be back on Gentoo again. (The fact that Ubuntu ships
> with PulseAudio means that sound it basically broken out of the box,
> and I'm excited for Xfce 4.8.)
>
> It's been a few months since I've been around, and I'd like to know if
> HAL has been fully deprecated yet. I'd like to avoid using it if at
> all possible, since that seems to be the way of the future. So I'm
> wondering what versions of udev and X server (and any other packages,
> dbus maybe?) I need to unmask in order to get rid of the HAL
> dependency.
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
> - BW
>
Hi

I just installed stable Gentoo on a new PC without any hal:
profile /usr/portage/profiles/default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop/
make.conf with -hal USE
xorg-server 1.9.2
nvidia-drivers 260.19.29
udev 151-r4
dbus 1.4.1
xfce4 4.8

Everything works nice.

Cheers,

-- 
Jacques