[gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

I'm planning to build a new rig.  My current rig is about 7 or 8 years 
old now and it needs to be updated.  Current rig is AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs 
of ram and a Abit NF7 v2.0 mobo.  Couple hard drives too.

New build #1 with links and all.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160

COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black case.  I included this 
because of the rather LARGE CPU heatsink that is going to be listed 
later.  I did a google image search and saw it in other rigs so it 
should fit in there.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130265

MSI 790XT-G45 AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 790X motherboard.  It's not the latest 
but it is a OK mobo.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125296

GIGABYTE GV-N210OC-512I GeForce 210 512MB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 
x16 HDCP video card.  I don't do gaming.  Actually, my old FX-5200 does 
pretty well but won't fit in the new mobo.  I really don't need a super 
fast video card here.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153116

Thermaltake TR2 TRX-650M 650W ATX 12V v2.3 / EPS 12V Power supply.  I 
like this brand and would like to stay with this but if the price is 
right, I could be tempted to change my mind.  My biggest question on 
this, can this handle this mobo, CPU, video card and 3 to 4 drives 
including a DVD burner?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644

AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB 
L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor.  From the searches I did, 
this should fit this mobo fine.  Agree?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104073

Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 Desktop 
Memory.  I have used this brand before with not one problem.  Like 
before, if the price is right, I could change this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118056

ZALMAN CNPS10X FLEX CPU Cooler.  This thing got good reviews and it is 
not priced to high.  According to the searches I have done this will fit 
the mobo/CPU and should fit in the case.  Any disagreements on this?

This is build #2:

I'll be using the same case, power supply, video card etc so I won't 
list them all twice.  Just listing the things that have to be changed.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128431

GIGABYTE GA-770T-USB3 AM3 AMD 770 USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard.  The only 
thing I don't like about this is that it doesn't have a com port for my 
UPS.  I guess a adapter will be found somewhere.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675

AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket 
AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor.  This should fit the mobo according to the 
website.  Agree?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148325

Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) 
Desktop Memory.  According to newegg this fits the mobo.  Agree?

I only plan to build one or the other not both.  I would like to make 
sure everything should fit fine but I would also like to get a opinion.  
I would like a opinion on whether build #2 would be better in the long 
run?  It appears to be a bit faster although the price is not much 
different.  Build #1 is $611.92.  Build #2 is $637.92.  That doesn't 
include shipping but a lot of the items have free shipping anyway.  
Basically, I need this to last me several years since I can't afford to 
rebuild every few years.  Also, one reason for the HUGE CPU cooler, I 
run folding in the winter.  Helps heat the place up a bit.  lol  My 
current rig with a Volcano 12 runs at about 90F at full load.  I would 
like to run pretty close to that since it just makes the CPU last longer.

I'm open to ideas, discussion, problems and opinions.  I mostly want to 
make sure each build will work and which I should build.

Thanks for your time and replies.  If you need more info, let me know.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Matthew Marlowe]

Dale,

One thing to keep in mind w/ power supplies is that you don't want to run them 
normally at more than X% of peak capacity -- most of them have a sweet spot in 
load where they are rated for efficiency and noise.  Choose your power supply 
based on that load % rather than max required wattage.  Most of the vendor 
websites will have a graph of power/noise versus wattage.

For a new system which you may keep around for 5-10 years and upgrade as time 
goes by, I'd consider putting in a ~800W unit which hopefully you'll run at 
under 50% load.  I've had very good experience with OCZ models.  The 800W is 
based on some reading I had done that indicated that newer 
motherboards/cpu's/+higher end video cards would bring power util in the 
~400-500W range.   I'm sure you can google for your own calculator.

I'm not that familiar with the other components you listed, but I've 
definitely had better experience w/ Kingston ram than crucial, and thermaltake 
makes good cases and chassis accessories.  For motherboards, I've always been 
partial to ASUS or Gigabyte for workstations/desktops.

Regards,
Matt

On Friday, November 26, 2010 01:29:03 pm Dale wrote:
> I'm planning to build a new rig.  My current rig is about 7 or 8 years
> old now and it needs to be updated.  Current rig is AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs
> of ram and a Abit NF7 v2.0 mobo.  Couple hard drives too.
> 
> New build #1 with links and all.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160
> 
> COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black case.  I included this
> because of the rather LARGE CPU heatsink that is going to be listed
> later.  I did a google image search and saw it in other rigs so it
> should fit in there.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130265
> 
> MSI 790XT-G45 AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 790X motherboard.  It's not the latest
> but it is a OK mobo.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125296
> 
> GIGABYTE GV-N210OC-512I GeForce 210 512MB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0
> x16 HDCP video card.  I don't do gaming.  Actually, my old FX-5200 does
> pretty well but won't fit in the new mobo.  I really don't need a super
> fast video card here.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153116
> 
> Thermaltake TR2 TRX-650M 650W ATX 12V v2.3 / EPS 12V Power supply.  I
> like this brand and would like to stay with this but if the price is
> right, I could be tempted to change my mind.  My biggest question on
> this, can this handle this mobo, CPU, video card and 3 to 4 drives
> including a DVD burner?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644
> 
> AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB
> L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor.  From the searches I did,
> this should fit this mobo fine.  Agree?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104073
> 
> Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 Desktop
> Memory.  I have used this brand before with not one problem.  Like
> before, if the price is right, I could change this.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118056
> 
> ZALMAN CNPS10X FLEX CPU Cooler.  This thing got good reviews and it is
> not priced to high.  According to the searches I have done this will fit
> the mobo/CPU and should fit in the case.  Any disagreements on this?
> 
> This is build #2:
> 
> I'll be using the same case, power supply, video card etc so I won't
> list them all twice.  Just listing the things that have to be changed.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128431
> 
> GIGABYTE GA-770T-USB3 AM3 AMD 770 USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard.  The only
> thing I don't like about this is that it doesn't have a com port for my
> UPS.  I guess a adapter will be found somewhere.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675
> 
> AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket
> AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor.  This should fit the mobo according to the
> website.  Agree?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148325
> 
> Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
> Desktop Memory.  According to newegg this fits the mobo.  Agree?
> 
> I only plan to build one or the other not both.  I would like to make
> sure everything should fit fine but I would also like to get a opinion.
> I would like a opinion on whether build #2 would be better in the long
> run?  It appears to be a bit faster although the price is not much
> different.  Build #1 is $611.92.  Build #2 is $637.92.  That doesn't
> include shipping but a lot of the items have free shipping anyway.
> Basically, I need this to last me several years since I can't afford to
> rebuild every few years.  Also, one reason for the HUGE CPU cooler, I
> run folding in the winter.  Helps heat the place up a bit.  lol  My
> current rig with a Volcano 12 runs at about 90F at full load.  I would
> like to run pretty close to that since it just makes the CPU last longer.
> 
> I'm open to ideas, discussion, problems and opinions.  I mostly want to
> make sure each build will work and which I should build.
> 
> Thanks for your time and replies.  If you need more info, let me know.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)

-- 
Matthew Marlowe    /  858-400-7430  /    DeployLinux Consulting, Inc
  Professional Linux Hosting and Systems Administration Services
              www.deploylinux.net   *   matt@deploylinux.net
                             'MattM' @ irc.freenode.net
       

Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Jason Weisberger]

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Couple of things to note:

The geforce 210 is not even powerful enough to do 1080p blueray playback.
Might want to consider a minor upgrade if you are going to do anything
entertainment-wise on this system.

Consider doing the ddr 3 system for longevity.  If you do end up getting the
ddr 2 motherboard and ram, the AM3 socket 945 x4 will fit in and run with
the AM2+ board, however AM3 and ddr3 are the current standards and at least
the next generation of amd processors should be backwards compatible with
that socket.

Also, I do slightly disagree with the previous author recommending an 800
watt psu with the configurations you posted.  That wattage should be
recommended for a bleeding edge single gpu system and a bleeding edge
processor.  500-600 should be enough for your needs as long as it's a
quality part.
On Nov 26, 2010 4:33 PM, "Dale" <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm planning to build a new rig. My current rig is about 7 or 8 years
> old now and it needs to be updated. Current rig is AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs
> of ram and a Abit NF7 v2.0 mobo. Couple hard drives too.
>
> New build #1 with links and all.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160
>
> COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black case. I included this
> because of the rather LARGE CPU heatsink that is going to be listed
> later. I did a google image search and saw it in other rigs so it
> should fit in there.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130265
>
> MSI 790XT-G45 AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 790X motherboard. It's not the latest
> but it is a OK mobo.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125296
>
> GIGABYTE GV-N210OC-512I GeForce 210 512MB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0
> x16 HDCP video card. I don't do gaming. Actually, my old FX-5200 does
> pretty well but won't fit in the new mobo. I really don't need a super
> fast video card here.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153116
>
> Thermaltake TR2 TRX-650M 650W ATX 12V v2.3 / EPS 12V Power supply. I
> like this brand and would like to stay with this but if the price is
> right, I could be tempted to change my mind. My biggest question on
> this, can this handle this mobo, CPU, video card and 3 to 4 drives
> including a DVD burner?
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644
>
> AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB
> L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor. From the searches I did,
> this should fit this mobo fine. Agree?
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104073
>
> Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 Desktop
> Memory. I have used this brand before with not one problem. Like
> before, if the price is right, I could change this.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118056
>
> ZALMAN CNPS10X FLEX CPU Cooler. This thing got good reviews and it is
> not priced to high. According to the searches I have done this will fit
> the mobo/CPU and should fit in the case. Any disagreements on this?
>
> This is build #2:
>
> I'll be using the same case, power supply, video card etc so I won't
> list them all twice. Just listing the things that have to be changed.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128431
>
> GIGABYTE GA-770T-USB3 AM3 AMD 770 USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard. The only
> thing I don't like about this is that it doesn't have a com port for my
> UPS. I guess a adapter will be found somewhere.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675
>
> AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket
> AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor. This should fit the mobo according to the
> website. Agree?
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148325
>
> Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
> Desktop Memory. According to newegg this fits the mobo. Agree?
>
> I only plan to build one or the other not both. I would like to make
> sure everything should fit fine but I would also like to get a opinion.
> I would like a opinion on whether build #2 would be better in the long
> run? It appears to be a bit faster although the price is not much
> different. Build #1 is $611.92. Build #2 is $637.92. That doesn't
> include shipping but a lot of the items have free shipping anyway.
> Basically, I need this to last me several years since I can't afford to
> rebuild every few years. Also, one reason for the HUGE CPU cooler, I
> run folding in the winter. Helps heat the place up a bit. lol My
> current rig with a Volcano 12 runs at about 90F at full load. I would
> like to run pretty close to that since it just makes the CPU last longer.
>
> I'm open to ideas, discussion, problems and opinions. I mostly want to
> make sure each build will work and which I should build.
>
> Thanks for your time and replies. If you need more info, let me know.
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Friday 26 November 2010, Dale wrote:
> I'm planning to build a new rig.  My current rig is about 7 or 8 years
> old now and it needs to be updated.  Current rig is AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs
> of ram and a Abit NF7 v2.0 mobo.  Couple hard drives too.
> 
> New build #1 with links and all.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160
> 
> COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black case.  I included this
> because of the rather LARGE CPU heatsink that is going to be listed
> later.  I did a google image search and saw it in other rigs so it
> should fit in there.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130265
> 
> MSI 790XT-G45 AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 790X motherboard.  It's not the latest
> but it is a OK mobo.

seriously? No. Get an AM3 board.

> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125296
> 
> GIGABYTE GV-N210OC-512I GeForce 210 512MB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0
> x16 HDCP video card.  I don't do gaming.  Actually, my old FX-5200 does
> pretty well but won't fit in the new mobo.  I really don't need a super
> fast video card here.

emm, no. You might not need a fast card, but with a 210 you could also use no 
card at all.

> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153116
> 
> Thermaltake TR2 TRX-650M 650W ATX 12V v2.3 / EPS 12V Power supply.  I
> like this brand and would like to stay with this but if the price is
> right, I could be tempted to change my mind.  My biggest question on
> this, can this handle this mobo, CPU, video card and 3 to 4 drives
> including a DVD burner?

wtf?
I have a phenom II 955, 8gb ddr3. 7drives and a 5770 - and my 450(!) W BeQuiet 
doesn't even break a sweat. Big PSU  = a lot of wasted money. Don't follow 
that stupid trend.

> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644
> 
> AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB
> L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor.  From the searches I did,
> this should fit this mobo fine.  Agree?
yeah

> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104073
> 
> Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 Desktop
> Memory.  I have used this brand before with not one problem.  Like
> before, if the price is right, I could change this.

No, no, no and no.
DDR2? No. 4gb? No. You can get 2x4gb ddr3 for very low prices. Oh - and please 
don't buy Kingston. Kingston = overpriced crap.

> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118056
> 
> ZALMAN CNPS10X FLEX CPU Cooler.  This thing got good reviews and it is
> not priced to high.  According to the searches I have done this will fit
> the mobo/CPU and should fit in the case.  Any disagreements on this?
> 

just saying, I have a scythe shuriken. A very small cooler:
CPU FAN Speed:       737 RPM  (min =  600 RPM)
CPU Temperature:     +40.0°C  (high = +60.0°C, crit = +95.0°C)  
MB Temperature:      +39.0°C  (high = +45.0°C, crit = +75.0°C)  

and for the first couple of minutes the fan doesn't even run.

> This is build #2:
> 
> I'll be using the same case, power supply, video card etc so I won't
> list them all twice.  Just listing the things that have to be changed.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128431
> 
> GIGABYTE GA-770T-USB3 AM3 AMD 770 USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard.  The only
> thing I don't like about this is that it doesn't have a com port for my
> UPS.  I guess a adapter will be found somewhere.
> 

Gigabyte is nice, usb3 is nice, ddr3 is nice. But 770? SB710? Well, not as bad 
as 700... but the 850 is out...

> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675
> 
> AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket
> AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor.  This should fit the mobo according to the
> website.  Agree?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148325
> 
> Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
> Desktop Memory.  According to newegg this fits the mobo.  Agree?

> 
> I only plan to build one or the other not both.  I would like to make
> sure everything should fit fine but I would also like to get a opinion.
> I would like a opinion on whether build #2 would be better in the long
> run?  It appears to be a bit faster although the price is not much
> different.  Build #1 is $611.92.  Build #2 is $637.92.  That doesn't
> include shipping but a lot of the items have free shipping anyway.
> Basically, I need this to last me several years since I can't afford to
> rebuild every few years.  Also, one reason for the HUGE CPU cooler, I
> run folding in the winter.  Helps heat the place up a bit.  lol  My
> current rig with a Volcano 12 runs at about 90F at full load.  I would
> like to run pretty close to that since it just makes the CPU last longer.
> 
> I'm open to ideas, discussion, problems and opinions.  I mostly want to
> make sure each build will work and which I should build.
> 
> Thanks for your time and replies.  If you need more info, let me know.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Friday 26 November 2010, Matthew Marlowe wrote:
> Dale,
> 
> One thing to keep in mind w/ power supplies is that you don't want to run
> them normally at more than X% of peak capacity -- most of them have a
> sweet spot in load where they are rated for efficiency and noise.  Choose
> your power supply based on that load % rather than max required wattage. 
> Most of the vendor websites will have a graph of power/noise versus
> wattage.
> 
> For a new system which you may keep around for 5-10 years and upgrade as
> time goes by, I'd consider putting in a ~800W unit which hopefully you'll
> run at under 50% load.

The stuff Dale wants tro buy wouldn't even reach 250ł AT FULL LOAD.

Even my rig - hotter, doesn't reach 300W when I artificially torture the 
system. Normal 'max' load is in 200W range. An normal desktop? Under 100.

You don't want to get to far below 20% PSU load or efficiency is shot.

So an 800W PSU is stupid in every regard. 650 is way to big. 450 is good 
enough. 400W might even be good enough. 

> I've had very good experience with OCZ models. 

Aren't those rebranded Seasonics?

> The 800W is based on some reading I had done that indicated that newer
> motherboards/cpu's/+higher end video cards would bring power util in the
> ~400-500W range.   I'm sure you can google for your own calculator.

which are all powered by PSU sellers... 

> 
> I'm not that familiar with the other components you listed, but I've
> definitely had better experience w/ Kingston ram than crucial, and
> thermaltake makes good cases and chassis accessories.  For motherboards,
> I've always been partial to ASUS or Gigabyte for workstations/desktops.

my current ASUS board is a piece of shit. Two repairs because the board loves 
to fry the bios chip. When the box is on but not used for a while, it might 
lock up completely. So completely I had to remove the battery and set the bios 
jumper to get it back working. Asus has become worse than their daughter 
Asrock.
Nothing bad to say about Gigabyte. I am still waiting for a reply from their 
support. Send the mail 12 years ago ;)

Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Matthew Marlowe]

Volker,

> Even my rig - hotter, doesn't reach 300W when I artificially torture the
> system. Normal 'max' load is in 200W range. An normal desktop? Under 100.
> 

OK -- just to find out the truth I've attached a kill-a-watt to my current 
workstation which is ~4yrs old w/ slow cpu and ancient video card but 
has been upgraded w/ 7 SATA Drives:

Idle - ~285W
Light Use (emerge --sync) - ~310W
Kernel Compile w/ video app running and minor torture- ~340W

This is definitely much higher than 100-200W stated above.

Anyhow, given that the discussion was about a system lasting ~8yrs, which is 
twice the current age of my system, I don't think it's unfeasible that future 
upgrades (especially if video card related or if moving cpu from 2 core to 8 
core) could get normal power util 20% higher to ~372W eventually.  

If you conservatively state that PSU wattage should be 1.66 * normal util  (so 
that PSU is normally running at 60% of peak) then:

1.66 * 372 = 617

> So an 800W PSU is stupid in every regard. 650 is way to big. 450 is good
> enough. 400W might even be good enough.
> 

OK, I'll agree that 800W is not looking very convincing.  I must have bought 
into the marketing there.   Thanks for the correction.

However, 650W would seem to be optimal.  For less stressful systems, 450 seems 
OK short term, but I'm not sure whether it would be limiting for a chassis 
expected to last 8+ yrs w/ whatever upgrades come down the line.     

Matt
-- 
Matthew Marlowe    /  858-400-7430  /    DeployLinux Consulting, Inc
  Professional Linux Hosting and Systems Administration Services
              www.deploylinux.net   *   matt@deploylinux.net
                             'MattM' @ irc.freenode.net
       

Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Adam Carter]

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> > Even my rig - hotter, doesn't reach 300W when I artificially torture the
> > system. Normal 'max' load is in 200W range. An normal desktop? Under 100.
> >
>
> OK -- just to find out the truth I've attached a kill-a-watt to my current
> workstation which is ~4yrs old w/ slow cpu and ancient video card but
> has been upgraded w/ 7 SATA Drives:
>

So the figures below are AC in, not DC out. Pretty sure the figure everyone
uses for comparison is DC out.


> Idle - ~285W
> Light Use (emerge --sync) - ~310W
> Kernel Compile w/ video app running and minor torture- ~340W
>
> This is definitely much higher than 100-200W stated above.
>
> Anyhow, given that the discussion was about a system lasting ~8yrs, which
> is
> twice the current age of my system, I don't think it's unfeasible that
> future
> upgrades (especially if video card related or if moving cpu from 2 core to
> 8
> core) could get normal power util 20% higher to ~372W eventually.
>
> If you conservatively state that PSU wattage should be 1.66 * normal util
>  (so
> that PSU is normally running at 60% of peak) then:
>
> 1.66 * 372 = 617
>

I think you've double dipped there....see above comment.

My 2c WRT power supplies - buy a quality brand as they are one of the least
reliable components in a PC.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

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Adam Carter wrote:
>
>     > Even my rig - hotter, doesn't reach 300W when I artificially
>     torture the
>     > system. Normal 'max' load is in 200W range. An normal desktop?
>     Under 100.
>     >
>
>     OK -- just to find out the truth I've attached a kill-a-watt to my
>     current
>     workstation which is ~4yrs old w/ slow cpu and ancient video card but
>     has been upgraded w/ 7 SATA Drives:
>
>
> So the figures below are AC in, not DC out. Pretty sure the figure 
> everyone uses for comparison is DC out.
>
>     Idle - ~285W
>     Light Use (emerge --sync) - ~310W
>     Kernel Compile w/ video app running and minor torture- ~340W
>
>     This is definitely much higher than 100-200W stated above.
>
>     Anyhow, given that the discussion was about a system lasting
>     ~8yrs, which is
>     twice the current age of my system, I don't think it's unfeasible
>     that future
>     upgrades (especially if video card related or if moving cpu from 2
>     core to 8
>     core) could get normal power util 20% higher to ~372W eventually.
>
>     If you conservatively state that PSU wattage should be 1.66 *
>     normal util  (so
>     that PSU is normally running at 60% of peak) then:
>
>     1.66 * 372 = 617
>
>
> I think you've double dipped there....see above comment.
>
> My 2c WRT power supplies - buy a quality brand as they are one of the 
> least reliable components in a PC.
>
>

To add a little info about me and my puters.  I don't update very 
often.  I started out with 512Mb of ram and upgraded to 2Gbs.  I started 
with a 30Gb hard drive and upgraded to a 80Gb and added a 750Gb when I 
got DSL and could watch videos.  Basically, as far as power is 
concerned, I added a single hard drive.  I doubt the memory changed 
power very much.  Swapping a 80Gb drive for the 30Gb probably wasn't 
much change either.  The new drive may have even use less power.  The 
only other change was that I added 2 120mm fans on the side to help with 
the cooling.

As you can probably tell, I build it and it stays the same basically.  
Maybe a little minor changes but nothing major.  I figure I will add one 
more drive when I can afford it.  Maybe a 1.5 to 2Tb or so.  They are 
still dropping in price.

Now to reply to some others.

Dale

:-)  :-)

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Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

Jason Weisberger wrote:
>
> Couple of things to note:
>
> The geforce 210 is not even powerful enough to do 1080p blueray 
> playback.  Might want to consider a minor upgrade if you are going to 
> do anything entertainment-wise on this system.
>
> Consider doing the ddr 3 system for longevity.  If you do end up 
> getting the ddr 2 motherboard and ram, the AM3 socket 945 x4 will fit 
> in and run with the AM2+ board, however AM3 and ddr3 are the current 
> standards and at least the next generation of amd processors should be 
> backwards compatible with that socket.
>
> Also, I do slightly disagree with the previous author recommending an 
> 800 watt psu with the configurations you posted.  That wattage should 
> be recommended for a bleeding edge single gpu system and a bleeding 
> edge processor.  500-600 should be enough for your needs as long as 
> it's a quality part.
>
>

I'll check and see if I can find something better video wise.  To be 
honest tho, I don't play video except for youtube or something like 
that.  By BIG game to play is Kpatience.

I must admit, I am seriously leaning to the Gigabyte build.  It is a bit 
newer but not to pricey.  I have read that DDR3 is faster and we all 
know that you only need one bottle neck.

I do assume that the Gigabyte mobo, CPU and ram do match up OK?  That is 
the big thing for me.  I used to read Computer Shopper and keep up with 
the sockets types and such but I haven't done that in a long while.  I 
don't want to order all this and then find out the CPU doesn't fit the 
mobo or that I can't put that ram in because of the HUGE heatsink.  I 
guess newegg would let me swap something within reason tho.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Friday 26 November 2010, Dale wrote:
>    
>> I'm planning to build a new rig.  My current rig is about 7 or 8 years
>> old now and it needs to be updated.  Current rig is AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs
>> of ram and a Abit NF7 v2.0 mobo.  Couple hard drives too.
>>
>> New build #1 with links and all.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160
>>
>> COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black case.  I included this
>> because of the rather LARGE CPU heatsink that is going to be listed
>> later.  I did a google image search and saw it in other rigs so it
>> should fit in there.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130265
>>
>> MSI 790XT-G45 AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 790X motherboard.  It's not the latest
>> but it is a OK mobo.
>>      
> seriously? No. Get an AM3 board.
>    

Yea, I'm not to familiar with MSI anyway.  I have worked with a Gigabyte 
before and it was nice.  I liked the BIOS too.  Not to mention this 
seems to be a older board.

>    
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125296
>>
>> GIGABYTE GV-N210OC-512I GeForce 210 512MB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0
>> x16 HDCP video card.  I don't do gaming.  Actually, my old FX-5200 does
>> pretty well but won't fit in the new mobo.  I really don't need a super
>> fast video card here.
>>      
> emm, no. You might not need a fast card, but with a 210 you could also use no
> card at all.
>    

Going to work on this some more.  Seriously tho, my old FX-5200 works 
pretty good here.  It is really old and outdated.  lol


>    
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153116
>>
>> Thermaltake TR2 TRX-650M 650W ATX 12V v2.3 / EPS 12V Power supply.  I
>> like this brand and would like to stay with this but if the price is
>> right, I could be tempted to change my mind.  My biggest question on
>> this, can this handle this mobo, CPU, video card and 3 to 4 drives
>> including a DVD burner?
>>      
> wtf?
> I have a phenom II 955, 8gb ddr3. 7drives and a 5770 - and my 450(!) W BeQuiet
> doesn't even break a sweat. Big PSU  = a lot of wasted money. Don't follow
> that stupid trend.
>    

I have a 550w power supply in my current rig.  I figured some of the 
basics, CPU is 125W and I do run folding which makes it work hard, the 
video card which I figure is about 50 or so max.  A little here and 
there for the drives, fans and other stuff I have not even thought of 
yet.  I read somewhere a while back that the start up is the hardest on 
a power supply.  I just added a little to what I got and figure that 
should cover any extra for the CPU, video cards and other goodies.   
According to the ole power meter, my current rig pulls 280 watts.  
That's the A/C measurement but given efficiency and all that would be 
250 or maybe a little less.  Add in that when I was digging around, this 
was a good deal.  Free shipping and on sale I think.  May have changed 
since then tho.

Of course, I am sure 1000w would be overkill.  lol

>    
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644
>>
>> AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB
>> L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor.  From the searches I did,
>> this should fit this mobo fine.  Agree?
>>      
> yeah
>    

Wish I could afford the 6 core one tho.

>    
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104073
>>
>> Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 Desktop
>> Memory.  I have used this brand before with not one problem.  Like
>> before, if the price is right, I could change this.
>>      
> No, no, no and no.
> DDR2? No. 4gb? No. You can get 2x4gb ddr3 for very low prices. Oh - and please
> don't buy Kingston. Kingston = overpriced crap.
>    

The reason I picked Kingston is that that is what I have always used.  
So far, knock on wood, no failures.  It's the only brand I have any 
experience with tho I have heard Crucial is good but also pricey at times.

>    
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118056
>>
>> ZALMAN CNPS10X FLEX CPU Cooler.  This thing got good reviews and it is
>> not priced to high.  According to the searches I have done this will fit
>> the mobo/CPU and should fit in the case.  Any disagreements on this?
>>
>>      
> just saying, I have a scythe shuriken. A very small cooler:
> CPU FAN Speed:       737 RPM  (min =  600 RPM)
> CPU Temperature:     +40.0°C  (high = +60.0°C, crit = +95.0°C)
> MB Temperature:      +39.0°C  (high = +45.0°C, crit = +75.0°C)
>
> and for the first couple of minutes the fan doesn't even run.
>
>    

Yea, it is small.  Keep in mind, I run folding which runs the CPU at 
100% and it runs for weeks with no break.  On this cycle, folding has 
been up the last 19 days which is when I rebooted last.  If I don't have 
a good cooler, folding will find out pretty soon.  I usually do a bit of 
overkill here.  My little AMD 2500+ has a Volcano 12+ on it.  Right now 
as I type, it is 86F or 30C.   Also, I plan to run the fans with a temp 
control.  I may replace the fan with ThermalTake like I have now.  I 
like the temp control setup I have.  As the CPU heats up, it just turns 
faster.


>> This is build #2:
>>
>> I'll be using the same case, power supply, video card etc so I won't
>> list them all twice.  Just listing the things that have to be changed.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128431
>>
>> GIGABYTE GA-770T-USB3 AM3 AMD 770 USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard.  The only
>> thing I don't like about this is that it doesn't have a com port for my
>> UPS.  I guess a adapter will be found somewhere.
>>
>>      
> Gigabyte is nice, usb3 is nice, ddr3 is nice. But 770? SB710? Well, not as bad
> as 700... but the 850 is out...
>    

I usually don't get the latest because of the price.  I'm on fixed 
income and it has taken me a while to save up what I got now.  I usually 
get something that has been out for a while, with a few bug fixes too, 
and save a little bit of money that way.   Plus, I look at what ports I 
use and such as well.  I do wish it had at least one com port for my 
UPS.  I'm not sure how to get it working with the USB adapter thingy.  
That may be another thread and/or some googling.

Thanks for the info.  Got to go dig a bit more.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Saturday 27 November 2010, Matthew Marlowe wrote:
> Volker,
> 
> > Even my rig - hotter, doesn't reach 300W when I artificially torture the
> > system. Normal 'max' load is in 200W range. An normal desktop? Under 100.
> 
> OK -- just to find out the truth I've attached a kill-a-watt to my current
> workstation which is ~4yrs old w/ slow cpu and ancient video card but
> has been upgraded w/ 7 SATA Drives:
> 
> Idle - ~285W
> Light Use (emerge --sync) - ~310W
> Kernel Compile w/ video app running and minor torture- ~340W

4 year old = sucks a lot of energy. A modern cpu, a modern chipset and a 
modern card uses a lot LESS energy idle AND under load than 4,5 year old stuff. 
You can go down as 60-70W desktop usage with a small EE amd cpu and a gigabyte 
board with onboard graphics. With a little bit of tuning even less.

Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Saturday 27 November 2010, Matthew Marlowe wrote:
>    
>> Volker,
>>
>>      
>>> Even my rig - hotter, doesn't reach 300W when I artificially torture the
>>> system. Normal 'max' load is in 200W range. An normal desktop? Under 100.
>>>        
>> OK -- just to find out the truth I've attached a kill-a-watt to my current
>> workstation which is ~4yrs old w/ slow cpu and ancient video card but
>> has been upgraded w/ 7 SATA Drives:
>>
>> Idle - ~285W
>> Light Use (emerge --sync) - ~310W
>> Kernel Compile w/ video app running and minor torture- ~340W
>>      
> 4 year old = sucks a lot of energy. A modern cpu, a modern chipset and a
> modern card uses a lot LESS energy idle AND under load than 4,5 year old stuff.
> You can go down as 60-70W desktop usage with a small EE amd cpu and a gigabyte
> board with onboard graphics. With a little bit of tuning even less.
>
>
>    

I honestly thought about using the power supply I have now but I want to 
keep this old rig as a stand by at least.  I'll still run folding on it 
in the winter too.  I may move it to another room tho.  Maybe the dining 
room.

I just don't want to get one that is to small and ends up burning out 
and taking the mobo and all with it.  That's why I got a case with no 
power supply at all.  I just don't trust those things to much.

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

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Dale wrote:
>
>
> GIGABYTE GA-770T-USB3 AM3 AMD 770 USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard.  The 
> only thing I don't like about this is that it doesn't have a com port 
> for my UPS.  I guess a adapter will be found somewhere.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675
>

I was diggin around for some more info on this mobo.  I found this on 
the website:

Due to different Linux support condition provided by chipset vendors, 
please download Linux driver from chipset vendors' website or 3rd party 
website.

This chipset is supported right?  From what I found, it uses the 
standard SATA drivers but want to make sure.  Searching with google 
returns some old problems but I couldn't find anything recent.  Is it 
working fine now?

Thoughts?

Dale

:-)  :-)

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Teemu Vartiainen]

2010/11/28 Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com>:
> Dale wrote:
>
> GIGABYTE GA-770T-USB3 AM3 AMD 770 USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard.  The only
> thing I don't like about this is that it doesn't have a com port for my
> UPS.  I guess a adapter will be found somewhere.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675
>
>
> I was diggin around for some more info on this mobo.  I found this on the
> website:
>
> Due to different Linux support condition provided by chipset vendors, please
> download Linux driver from chipset vendors' website or 3rd party website.
>
> This chipset is supported right?  From what I found, it uses the standard
> SATA drivers but want to make sure.  Searching with google returns some old
> problems but I couldn't find anything recent.  Is it working fine now?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>

I'm not sure about that older chipset (770) but i have MSI 890GXM-G65
mobo and that works fine.

Vartsu

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

Teemu Vartiainen wrote:
> 2010/11/28 Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>:
>    
>> Dale wrote:
>>
>> GIGABYTE GA-770T-USB3 AM3 AMD 770 USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard.  The only
>> thing I don't like about this is that it doesn't have a com port for my
>> UPS.  I guess a adapter will be found somewhere.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675
>>
>>
>> I was diggin around for some more info on this mobo.  I found this on the
>> website:
>>
>> Due to different Linux support condition provided by chipset vendors, please
>> download Linux driver from chipset vendors' website or 3rd party website.
>>
>> This chipset is supported right?  From what I found, it uses the standard
>> SATA drivers but want to make sure.  Searching with google returns some old
>> problems but I couldn't find anything recent.  Is it working fine now?
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>
>>      
> I'm not sure about that older chipset (770) but i have MSI 890GXM-G65
> mobo and that works fine.
>
> Vartsu
>
>
>    

I found some people with problems when I was googling around but most 
were older posts.  I sort of figure things got fixed and that is why I 
was not finding anything recent.  I would really not want to buy this 
stuff and then find out the chipset wasn't supported for some reason or 
other.

I would assume then that the 770 is fine since the one you have is newer 
and works fine.

Thanks for the info.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sunday 28 November 2010, Dale wrote:
> Dale wrote:
> > GIGABYTE GA-770T-USB3 AM3 AMD 770 USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard.  The
> > only thing I don't like about this is that it doesn't have a com port
> > for my UPS.  I guess a adapter will be found somewhere.
> > 
> > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675
> 
> I was diggin around for some more info on this mobo.  I found this on
> the website:
> 
> Due to different Linux support condition provided by chipset vendors,
> please download Linux driver from chipset vendors' website or 3rd party
> website.
> 
> This chipset is supported right?  From what I found, it uses the
> standard SATA drivers but want to make sure.  Searching with google
> returns some old problems but I couldn't find anything recent.  Is it
> working fine now?
and with problems you mean hangs and timeouts with ncq enabled, ncq not 
enabled and usb problems, right?

those problems are all solved. Just don't use an acient kernel.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Sunday 28 November 2010, Dale wrote:
>    
>> Dale wrote:
>>      
>>> GIGABYTE GA-770T-USB3 AM3 AMD 770 USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard.  The
>>> only thing I don't like about this is that it doesn't have a com port
>>> for my UPS.  I guess a adapter will be found somewhere.
>>>
>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675
>>>        
>> I was diggin around for some more info on this mobo.  I found this on
>> the website:
>>
>> Due to different Linux support condition provided by chipset vendors,
>> please download Linux driver from chipset vendors' website or 3rd party
>> website.
>>
>> This chipset is supported right?  From what I found, it uses the
>> standard SATA drivers but want to make sure.  Searching with google
>> returns some old problems but I couldn't find anything recent.  Is it
>> working fine now?
>>      
> and with problems you mean hangs and timeouts with ncq enabled, ncq not
> enabled and usb problems, right?
>
> those problems are all solved. Just don't use an acient kernel.
>
>
>    

Thanks for the info.  Helps put my mind at ease.

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

Dale wrote:
> I'm planning to build a new rig.  My current rig is about 7 or 8 years 
> old now and it needs to be updated.  Current rig is AMD 2500+ with 
> 2Gbs of ram and a Abit NF7 v2.0 mobo.  Couple hard drives too.
>
> <<SNIP>>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>


Little update.  I caught the case and power supply on sale, not at 
newegg tho.  I went ahead and ordered those two today.  The power 
supply, it's a power supply.  It's nice tho as far as looks go.  I like 
the way the cables hook up tho.  The case, that thing is HUGE and I do 
mean HUGE.  Thanks goodness it comes with wheels.  I can barely carry 
the thing with it empty, I can't imagine when all the goodies get in 
there.  It also has very large fans.  I can't wait to see them run since 
according to the reviews, you can't hear them run.

Anybody think the other things will go on sale between now and Christmas 
or after the New Year or think prices will stay about the same?  I 
figure it is like the price of gas, just all over the place and no one 
can predict anything.  lol

Thanks for all the replies and help.

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[masterprometheus]

Dale wrote:


> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153116
> 
> Thermaltake TR2 TRX-650M 650W ATX 12V v2.3 / EPS 12V Power supply.  I
> like this brand and would like to stay with this but if the price is
> right, I could be tempted to change my mind.  My biggest question on
> this, can this handle this mobo, CPU, video card and 3 to 4 drives
> including a DVD burner?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644

I saw that you already bought it. It's a below average product. Should 
still work fine for this system. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371021
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151095
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207007

All of these are superior products with great prices. If one can get the 
rebate the last one is a steal.

> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118056
> 
> ZALMAN CNPS10X FLEX CPU Cooler.  This thing got good reviews and it is
> not priced to high.  According to the searches I have done this will 
fit
> the mobo/CPU and should fit in the case.  Any disagreements on this?

Zalman's cooler is a good one but the one I listed in a prior thread is 
cheaper. Performance is similar. This one of course doesn't need a fan 
and will be silent.

> Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 
12800)
> Desktop Memory.  According to newegg this fits the mobo.  Agree?

Yes a good one. If you don't need the fastest you can get a cheaper kit :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820144478

However no objection to Crucial.
 
> I only plan to build one or the other not both.  I would like to make
> sure everything should fit fine but I would also like to get a opinion.
> I would like a opinion on whether build #2 would be better in the long
> run?  It appears to be a bit faster although the price is not much
> different.  Build #1 is $611.92.  Build #2 is $637.92.  That doesn't
> include shipping but a lot of the items have free shipping anyway.
> Basically, I need this to last me several years since I can't afford to
> rebuild every few years.  Also, one reason for the HUGE CPU cooler, I
> run folding in the winter.  Helps heat the place up a bit.  lol  My
> current rig with a Volcano 12 runs at about 90F at full load.  I would
> like to run pretty close to that since it just makes the CPU last 
longer.
> 
> I'm open to ideas, discussion, problems and opinions.  I mostly want to
> make sure each build will work and which I should build.
> 
> Thanks for your time and replies.  If you need more info, let me know.

The rest is good to great but that PSU is .... 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

masterprometheus wrote:
> Dale wrote:
>
>
>    
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153116
>>
>> Thermaltake TR2 TRX-650M 650W ATX 12V v2.3 / EPS 12V Power supply.  I
>> like this brand and would like to stay with this but if the price is
>> right, I could be tempted to change my mind.  My biggest question on
>> this, can this handle this mobo, CPU, video card and 3 to 4 drives
>> including a DVD burner?
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644
>>      
> I saw that you already bought it. It's a below average product. Should
> still work fine for this system.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371021
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151095
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207007
>
> All of these are superior products with great prices. If one can get the
> rebate the last one is a steal.
>
>    
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118056
>>
>> ZALMAN CNPS10X FLEX CPU Cooler.  This thing got good reviews and it is
>> not priced to high.  According to the searches I have done this will
>>      
> fit
>    
>> the mobo/CPU and should fit in the case.  Any disagreements on this?
>>      
> Zalman's cooler is a good one but the one I listed in a prior thread is
> cheaper. Performance is similar. This one of course doesn't need a fan
> and will be silent.
>
>    

I have always been skittish of a cooler with no fan.  They just don't 
sound right for some reason.  I guess if I saw one in action, I may feel 
a little different.  I do like the large quiet fans tho.  I do like to 
keep the noise to a minimum.  I actually checked Toms hardware for that 
one too.  It is highly rated.   I have a ThermalTake Volcano 12+ on my 
little AMD 2500+.  It runs cool tho.  I'm running folding and have been 
for at least a week now and I'm running 87F for the CPU and the fans are 
~3700 rpms.  Not to bad I guess.   I hope for something like that with 
the new CPU but it may run a little hotter since it has more cores and 
such.


>> Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3
>>      
> 12800)
>    
>> Desktop Memory.  According to newegg this fits the mobo.  Agree?
>>      
> Yes a good one. If you don't need the fastest you can get a cheaper kit :
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820144478
>
> However no objection to Crucial.
>    

One reason I picked it is that it is 4Gb in one stick.  I plan to max it 
out over the next year and then put portage's compile directory on a 
tmpfs in memory, or something to that effect.  I read a while back that 
it speeds up the compile a good bit.  Of course, that SATA drive will 
help to in the meantime.


>
>    
>> I only plan to build one or the other not both.  I would like to make
>> sure everything should fit fine but I would also like to get a opinion.
>> I would like a opinion on whether build #2 would be better in the long
>> run?  It appears to be a bit faster although the price is not much
>> different.  Build #1 is $611.92.  Build #2 is $637.92.  That doesn't
>> include shipping but a lot of the items have free shipping anyway.
>> Basically, I need this to last me several years since I can't afford to
>> rebuild every few years.  Also, one reason for the HUGE CPU cooler, I
>> run folding in the winter.  Helps heat the place up a bit.  lol  My
>> current rig with a Volcano 12 runs at about 90F at full load.  I would
>> like to run pretty close to that since it just makes the CPU last
>>      
> longer.
>    
>> I'm open to ideas, discussion, problems and opinions.  I mostly want to
>> make sure each build will work and which I should build.
>>
>> Thanks for your time and replies.  If you need more info, let me know.
>>      
> The rest is good to great but that PSU is ....
>
>    

Yea, the ones you listed above are good ones.  I just start out with 
what I have used before that worked well and go from there.  I only 
recall one P/S going bad on me tho.  I blew the dust out and didn't know 
that a rubber band came off and got hung in the fan.  I found out a few 
minutes later tho.  It sort of had a bad smell.  :-(

I hope to post some pics somewhere when I get it done.  Going to test my 
cable management skills a little bit.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>> Zalman's cooler is a good one but the one I listed in a prior thread is
>> cheaper. Performance is similar. This one of course doesn't need a fan
>> and will be silent.
>>
>>
>
> I have always been skittish of a cooler with no fan.  They just don't sound
> right for some reason.  I guess if I saw one in action, I may feel a little
> different.  I do like the large quiet fans tho.  I do like to keep the noise
> to a minimum.  I actually checked Toms hardware for that one too.  It is
> highly rated.   I have a ThermalTake Volcano 12+ on my little AMD 2500+.  It
> runs cool tho.  I'm running folding and have been for at least a week now
> and I'm running 87F for the CPU and the fans are ~3700 rpms.  Not to bad I
> guess.   I hope for something like that with the new CPU but it may run a
> little hotter since it has more cores and such.

They work fine if you have a lot of case cooling. If case fans die or
just shut off for some reason you can lose the processor pretty
quickly, but that's not much different than a CPU fan dieing...

If you're looking for silence go water cooled.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com>  wrote:
> <SNIP>
>    
>>> Zalman's cooler is a good one but the one I listed in a prior thread is
>>> cheaper. Performance is similar. This one of course doesn't need a fan
>>> and will be silent.
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>> I have always been skittish of a cooler with no fan.  They just don't sound
>> right for some reason.  I guess if I saw one in action, I may feel a little
>> different.  I do like the large quiet fans tho.  I do like to keep the noise
>> to a minimum.  I actually checked Toms hardware for that one too.  It is
>> highly rated.   I have a ThermalTake Volcano 12+ on my little AMD 2500+.  It
>> runs cool tho.  I'm running folding and have been for at least a week now
>> and I'm running 87F for the CPU and the fans are ~3700 rpms.  Not to bad I
>> guess.   I hope for something like that with the new CPU but it may run a
>> little hotter since it has more cores and such.
>>      
> They work fine if you have a lot of case cooling. If case fans die or
> just shut off for some reason you can lose the processor pretty
> quickly, but that's not much different than a CPU fan dieing...
>
> If you're looking for silence go water cooled.
>
> - Mark
>
>    

I agree.  Fanless or not, if you lose the case cooling, you got problems 
real quick.  I just want a efficient cooler since I run folding during 
the winter months.  I also know that the cooler they run, the longer 
they last.

I'm not big on water cooling.  I like to look at pics where people do 
use water cooling but I just don't want water around my puter.  I don't 
even put my glass close to my rig.  It's not even close to my keyboard 
or my desk either.

Weird ain't I?

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

Dale wrote:
> I'm planning to build a new rig.  My current rig is about 7 or 8 years 
> old now and it needs to be updated.  Current rig is AMD 2500+ with 
> 2Gbs of ram and a Abit NF7 v2.0 mobo.  Couple hard drives too.
>
>
> This is build #2:
>
> I'll be using the same case, power supply, video card etc so I won't 
> list them all twice.  Just listing the things that have to be changed.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128431
>
> GIGABYTE GA-770T-USB3 AM3 AMD 770 USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard.  The 
> only thing I don't like about this is that it doesn't have a com port 
> for my UPS.  I guess a adapter will be found somewhere.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675
>
> AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache 
> Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor.  This should fit the mobo 
> according to the website.  Agree?
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148325
>
> Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 
> 12800) Desktop Memory.  According to newegg this fits the mobo.  Agree?
>
> I only plan to build one or the other not both.  I would like to make 
> sure everything should fit fine but I would also like to get a 
> opinion.  I would like a opinion on whether build #2 would be better 
> in the long run?  It appears to be a bit faster although the price is 
> not much different.  Build #1 is $611.92.  Build #2 is $637.92.  That 
> doesn't include shipping but a lot of the items have free shipping 
> anyway.  Basically, I need this to last me several years since I can't 
> afford to rebuild every few years.  Also, one reason for the HUGE CPU 
> cooler, I run folding in the winter.  Helps heat the place up a bit.  
> lol  My current rig with a Volcano 12 runs at about 90F at full load.  
> I would like to run pretty close to that since it just makes the CPU 
> last longer.
>
> I'm open to ideas, discussion, problems and opinions.  I mostly want 
> to make sure each build will work and which I should build.
>
> Thanks for your time and replies.  If you need more info, let me know.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>

I ordered the parts for the rest of my build yesterday.  I changed the 
CPU to a 3.2Ghz version and the memory to a single stick of 4Gb instead 
of two 2Gb sticks.  Easier to upgrade later.  Since I live only a few 
hours from the newegg warehouse, I get most of it today.  I been reading 
the install guide and have been trying to keep up with amd64 threads on 
here as well.  I still have a few questions tho.

I usually use Knoppix to boot from but want to know if it supports a 64 
bit CPU?  I Googled and found a 64 bit version of Knoppix but it says it 
is discontinued.  If the current version does support 64 bit, will it 
see all the cores so that emerges move along pretty swiftly?

If knoppix doesn't work, could someone recommend something else to use?  
I found Kanotix while doing my searches but still not sure if that is 
what I need either.  It looks like it is made to install on a hard drive 
or something.  I basically need to boot to install Gentoo on the new 
rig.  I also want to test the ram before installing as well.

All this assumes that I need to install Gentoo with amd64 of course.  
Has it got stable enough and everything working well enough to install 
it as amd64 instead of 32 bit?

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 05:53:17 -0600, Dale wrote:

> If knoppix doesn't work, could someone recommend something else to
> use?  

System Rescue CD or GRML.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

In plumbing, a straight flush is better than a full house.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Hazen Valliant-Saunders]

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Some considerations:

For your money the 890FX from AMD with an AM3 socket is the way to go right
now;

1. The MSI 890 FX GD 70 is the best value for the money on the market
2. Get at least 850W of power (1KW can be had for $169 if you shop around)
3. if speed is your goal, get the Phenom II X6 1090T

As for drives and cases, the OCZ Vertex 2 in raid 0 will run blazingly fast.
Get 4 drives in raid 5, 2TB can be had for about 80.

I've been running 64 bit gentoo for a while yet, some minor issues with
flash and a couple of others but those are probably my compile time settings
on these applications.

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 6:53 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dale wrote:
>
>> I'm planning to build a new rig.  My current rig is about 7 or 8 years old
>> now and it needs to be updated.  Current rig is AMD 2500+ with 2Gbs of ram
>> and a Abit NF7 v2.0 mobo.  Couple hard drives too.
>>
>>
>> This is build #2:
>>
>> I'll be using the same case, power supply, video card etc so I won't list
>> them all twice.  Just listing the things that have to be changed.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128431
>>
>> GIGABYTE GA-770T-USB3 AM3 AMD 770 USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard.  The only
>> thing I don't like about this is that it doesn't have a com port for my UPS.
>>  I guess a adapter will be found somewhere.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675
>>
>> AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket
>> AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor.  This should fit the mobo according to the
>> website.  Agree?
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148325
>>
>> Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
>> Desktop Memory.  According to newegg this fits the mobo.  Agree?
>>
>> I only plan to build one or the other not both.  I would like to make sure
>> everything should fit fine but I would also like to get a opinion.  I would
>> like a opinion on whether build #2 would be better in the long run?  It
>> appears to be a bit faster although the price is not much different.  Build
>> #1 is $611.92.  Build #2 is $637.92.  That doesn't include shipping but a
>> lot of the items have free shipping anyway.  Basically, I need this to last
>> me several years since I can't afford to rebuild every few years.  Also, one
>> reason for the HUGE CPU cooler, I run folding in the winter.  Helps heat the
>> place up a bit.  lol  My current rig with a Volcano 12 runs at about 90F at
>> full load.  I would like to run pretty close to that since it just makes the
>> CPU last longer.
>>
>> I'm open to ideas, discussion, problems and opinions.  I mostly want to
>> make sure each build will work and which I should build.
>>
>> Thanks for your time and replies.  If you need more info, let me know.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>
>>
> I ordered the parts for the rest of my build yesterday.  I changed the CPU
> to a 3.2Ghz version and the memory to a single stick of 4Gb instead of two
> 2Gb sticks.  Easier to upgrade later.  Since I live only a few hours from
> the newegg warehouse, I get most of it today.  I been reading the install
> guide and have been trying to keep up with amd64 threads on here as well.  I
> still have a few questions tho.
>
> I usually use Knoppix to boot from but want to know if it supports a 64 bit
> CPU?  I Googled and found a 64 bit version of Knoppix but it says it is
> discontinued.  If the current version does support 64 bit, will it see all
> the cores so that emerges move along pretty swiftly?
>
> If knoppix doesn't work, could someone recommend something else to use?  I
> found Kanotix while doing my searches but still not sure if that is what I
> need either.  It looks like it is made to install on a hard drive or
> something.  I basically need to boot to install Gentoo on the new rig.  I
> also want to test the ram before installing as well.
>
> All this assumes that I need to install Gentoo with amd64 of course.  Has
> it got stable enough and everything working well enough to install it as
> amd64 instead of 32 bit?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 05:53:17 -0600, Dale wrote:
>
>    
>> If knoppix doesn't work, could someone recommend something else to
>> use?
>>      
> System Rescue CD or GRML.
>
>    

I forgot about System Rescue.  I'll get it too.  After posting, I 
started downloading Kanotix.  It may work too.

Now to google and find out what GRML is.  lol

Thanks.  One of these should work.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

Hazen Valliant-Saunders wrote:
> Some considerations:
>
> For your money the 890FX from AMD with an AM3 socket is the way to go 
> right now;
>
> 1. The MSI 890 FX GD 70 is the best value for the money on the market
> 2. Get at least 850W of power (1KW can be had for $169 if you shop around)
> 3. if speed is your goal, get the Phenom II X6 1090T
>
> As for drives and cases, the OCZ Vertex 2 in raid 0 will run blazingly 
> fast. Get 4 drives in raid 5, 2TB can be had for about 80.
>
> I've been running 64 bit gentoo for a while yet, some minor issues 
> with flash and a couple of others but those are probably my compile 
> time settings on these applications.
>

I already ordered the stuff now tho.  Newegg might get upset if I send 
some of it back.  ;-)

I'm hoping amd64 will work as well for me to then.  Thanks for the info 
on flash tho.  I read where some had trouble a while back but was hoping 
it was fixed by now.

Now to go subscribe to the amd64 mailing list to.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Tuesday 07 December 2010, Hazen Valliant-Saunders wrote:

> 2. Get at least 850W of power (1KW can be had for $169 if you shop around)

WTF? 

NOOO!

Buying such an PSU is justz stupid.

Exscept if you have a Fermi system - which is stupid in itself.

btw, Dale, if you plan to use systemrescuecd for installing gentoo, there are 
arcane build failures with 'install not found' or 'directory not found'.

If you run into that, do an export path= 
yeah,, nothing else. ...

Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

<<< SNIP >>>

I have a question.  The cooler Master HAF 932 case has some LARGE fans 
in it, about 200mm or so.  The Gigabyte mobo has power connectors for 
case fans.  Is it safe to plug a fan that large into the mobo?  I have 
no idea how much power it pulls.  If it is safe, that would be great and 
a lot easier.  If not, I'll use the adapter thingy.  I just don't want 
to hook it to that and burn out my mobo.

I got most of the stuff in today.  Waiting on the DVD drive, a cable or 
two and the video card.  So far, assembly is going well.  Since I got 
some extra time, I'm going to try to do some good cable management.

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Wednesday 08 December 2010, Dale wrote:
> <<< SNIP >>>
> 
> I have a question.  The cooler Master HAF 932 case has some LARGE fans
> in it, about 200mm or so.  The Gigabyte mobo has power connectors for
> case fans.  Is it safe to plug a fan that large into the mobo?  I have
> no idea how much power it pulls.  If it is safe, that would be great and
> a lot easier.  If not, I'll use the adapter thingy.  I just don't want
> to hook it to that and burn out my mobo.
> 
> I got most of the stuff in today.  Waiting on the DVD drive, a cable or
> two and the video card.  So far, assembly is going well.  Since I got
> some extra time, I'm going to try to do some good cable management.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)

depends on how much the fan needs and how much the mobo delivers. You can find 
all that information in the manuals ;)

Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Wednesday 08 December 2010, Dale wrote:
>    
>> <<<  SNIP>>>
>>
>> I have a question.  The cooler Master HAF 932 case has some LARGE fans
>> in it, about 200mm or so.  The Gigabyte mobo has power connectors for
>> case fans.  Is it safe to plug a fan that large into the mobo?  I have
>> no idea how much power it pulls.  If it is safe, that would be great and
>> a lot easier.  If not, I'll use the adapter thingy.  I just don't want
>> to hook it to that and burn out my mobo.
>>
>> I got most of the stuff in today.  Waiting on the DVD drive, a cable or
>> two and the video card.  So far, assembly is going well.  Since I got
>> some extra time, I'm going to try to do some good cable management.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>      
> depends on how much the fan needs and how much the mobo delivers. You can find
> all that information in the manuals ;)
>
>
>    

Well, I finally found out the fan needs a max of 4 watts, about .16 
amps.  I can't find it in the mobo manual but will look some more.  I 
don't see it on the website either.  I just lucked up on the fan info.  
I found it on the case website where you can buy replacement fans.

I found some specs on 120mm fans.  Some of them draw as much as .24 
amps.  The CPU fan is 120mm to and it is supposed to be plugged into the 
mobo according to the manufacturer of it.

I would think this is safe based on the above info but would love a 
couple other opinions on this.  Also, what would get hot if it is 
pulling to much?  I got one of those temp sensor thingys that is 
infrared that I could check it with.  I could also give it the finger 
test.  ;-)

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Somewhat OT. Building a rig. Want to get opinions before spending $$$

[Dale]

Dale wrote:
>
> Well, I finally found out the fan needs a max of 4 watts, about .16 
> amps.  I can't find it in the mobo manual but will look some more.  I 
> don't see it on the website either.  I just lucked up on the fan 
> info.  I found it on the case website where you can buy replacement fans.
>
> I found some specs on 120mm fans.  Some of them draw as much as .24 
> amps.  The CPU fan is 120mm to and it is supposed to be plugged into 
> the mobo according to the manufacturer of it.
>
> I would think this is safe based on the above info but would love a 
> couple other opinions on this.  Also, what would get hot if it is 
> pulling to much?  I got one of those temp sensor thingys that is 
> infrared that I could check it with.  I could also give it the finger 
> test.  ;-)
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>

OK.  I been giving the google server a workout.  Changing search terms 
and looking everywhere I could.  I finally found this post on a forums.  
He claims this is what Gigabyte sent him.

"I've just heard from Gigabyte support on this topic - the max is 3 amps 
at 12 volts. This is confirmed by other information I've found."

http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/34292-gigabyte-ga-ex58-ud4p-cpu-fan-header.html#post318935

So, if that is true, I should be able to plug in some pretty good size 
fans that blow air at hurricane speeds.

Wish me luck when the fans start up.

Dale

:-)  :-)