[gentoo-user] Winter clock change did not happen

[gentoo-user] Winter clock change did not happen

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 677 bytes --]

I dual boot with MSWindows and therefore have set up my /etc/conf.d/clock to:

CLOCK="local"
TIMEZONE="Europe/London"
CLOCK_OPTS=""
CLOCK_SYSTOHC="no"
SRM="no"
ARC="no"

I noticed this morning that the clock was still showing summer time (I rarely 
boot into MSWindows).

I had to boot into MSWindows to check what happens there and the clock was 
showing the new winter time.  After that the Linux clock was also showing the 
updated winter time.

Does this mean that twice a year when the clock changes I need to boot into 
MSWindows first to allow the time change to take place, or is there a Linux 
side fix for my dual boot set up?
-- 
Regards,
Mick

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Winter clock change did not happen

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 11:24 on Sunday 31 October 2010, Mick did 
opine thusly:

> I dual boot with MSWindows and therefore have set up my /etc/conf.d/clock
> to:
> 
> CLOCK="local"
> TIMEZONE="Europe/London"
> CLOCK_OPTS=""
> CLOCK_SYSTOHC="no"
> SRM="no"
> ARC="no"
> 
> I noticed this morning that the clock was still showing summer time (I
> rarely boot into MSWindows).
> 
> I had to boot into MSWindows to check what happens there and the clock was
> showing the new winter time.  After that the Linux clock was also showing
> the updated winter time.
> 
> Does this mean that twice a year when the clock changes I need to boot into
> MSWindows first to allow the time change to take place, or is there a Linux
> side fix for my dual boot set up?

gut feel tells me windows is broken.

All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight savings 
switches at the END of today not at the beginning


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Winter clock change did not happen

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:

> All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
> savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning

That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday. My 
Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this morning, and 
so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen wall.

I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.

-- 
Rgds
Peter.          Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.

Re: [gentoo-user] Winter clock change did not happen

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 835 bytes --]

On Sunday 31 October 2010 10:05:15 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
> > savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning
> 
> That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday. My
> Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this morning, and
> so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen wall.
> 
> I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.

 :-(

Thanks Peter, do you dual boot with MSWindows?

I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual boot with 
MSWindows.  A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to winter time correctly - 
so it must be my dual boot set up that is causing this problem.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Winter clock change did not happen

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday 31 October 2010 11:32:59 Mick wrote:

> I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual
> boot with MSWindows.  A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to
> winter time correctly - so it must be my dual boot set up that is
> causing this problem.

I have a dual-booting laptop; I'll try that this afternoon. Otherwise 
Windows isn't given house-room here.

-- 
Rgds
Peter.          Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.

Re: [gentoo-user] Winter clock change did not happen

[Stéphane Guedon]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 1237 bytes --]

Le Sunday 31 October 2010 12:32:59, Mick a écrit :
> On Sunday 31 October 2010 10:05:15 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
> > > savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning
> > 
> > That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday. My
> > Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this morning, and
> > so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen wall.
> > 
> > I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.
> > 
>  :-(
> 
> Thanks Peter, do you dual boot with MSWindows?
> 
> I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual boot
> with MSWindows.  A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to winter time
> correctly - so it must be my dual boot set up that is causing this
> problem.

Same thing in France where changing time is at 03:00 => 02:00 on sunday 
morning !

And I am on dual boot too !

-- 
Stéphane Guedon
page web : http://www.22decembre.eu/
carte de visite : http://www.22decembre.eu/downloads/Stephane-Guedon.vcf
clé publique gpg : http://www.22decembre.eu/downloads/Stephane-Guedon.asc

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Nuno J. Silva]

Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:

> I dual boot with MSWindows and therefore have set up my /etc/conf.d/clock to:
>
> CLOCK="local"
> TIMEZONE="Europe/London"
> CLOCK_OPTS=""
> CLOCK_SYSTOHC="no"
> SRM="no"
> ARC="no"
>
> I noticed this morning that the clock was still showing summer time (I rarely 
> boot into MSWindows).

Was Linux running since before the time change? I suppose it would at
least show the right time if that was the case. If it works, you still
need CLOCK_SYSTOHC="yes" if you want Linux to change the clock.

Linux has no way to know if the time change was done (nor windows),
unless the systems are syncing with other clock (NTP), so both of them
will boot up and think this "local" time is the winter time.

The systems may still register if they already did the timezone change,
so that they know what to do (that was the case with windows 98).

> I had to boot into MSWindows to check what happens there and the clock was 
> showing the new winter time.  After that the Linux clock was also showing the 
> updated winter time.
>
> Does this mean that twice a year when the clock changes I need to boot into 
> MSWindows first to allow the time change to take place, or is there a Linux 
> side fix for my dual boot set up?

You can write something so that Linux changes the clock, but then be
sure Windows is not set to change it.

A better (read "more complicated") solution would involve some sync
mechanism between both operating systems so that one can tell if the
other already changed the clock.

Unless windows now supports UTC clocks, you have to live either with
this or with an always on winter clock on windows.

-- 
Nuno J. Silva
gopher://sdf-eu.org/1/users/njsg

[gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Nuno J. Silva]

Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sunday 31 October 2010 10:05:15 Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> > All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
>> > savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning
>> 
>> That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday. My
>> Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this morning, and
>> so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen wall.
>> 
>> I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.
>
>  :-(
>
> Thanks Peter, do you dual boot with MSWindows?
>
> I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual boot with 
> MSWindows.  A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to winter time correctly - 
> so it must be my dual boot set up that is causing this problem.

It is a problem caused by the settings needed for Linux to live with
Windows on the same computer.

-- 
Nuno J. Silva
gopher://sdf-eu.org/1/users/njsg

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 1267 bytes --]

On Sunday 31 October 2010 13:29:20 Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Sunday 31 October 2010 10:05:15 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> >> On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >> > All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
> >> > savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning
> >> 
> >> That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday. My
> >> Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this morning, and
> >> so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen wall.
> >> 
> >> I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.
> >> 
> >  :-(
> > 
> > Thanks Peter, do you dual boot with MSWindows?
> > 
> > I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual boot
> > with MSWindows.  A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to winter time
> > correctly - so it must be my dual boot set up that is causing this
> > problem.
> 
> It is a problem caused by the settings needed for Linux to live with
> Windows on the same computer.

Is there a fix?  I thought that the setting of CLOCK="local" in 
/etc/conf.d/clock was to address the problem of having to dual boot with 
MSWindows.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 2269 bytes --]

On Sunday 31 October 2010 13:27:11 Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
> > I dual boot with MSWindows and therefore have set up my /etc/conf.d/clock
> > to:
> > 
> > CLOCK="local"
> > TIMEZONE="Europe/London"
> > CLOCK_OPTS=""
> > CLOCK_SYSTOHC="no"
> > SRM="no"
> > ARC="no"
> > 
> > I noticed this morning that the clock was still showing summer time (I
> > rarely boot into MSWindows).
> 
> Was Linux running since before the time change? I suppose it would at
> least show the right time if that was the case. If it works, you still
> need CLOCK_SYSTOHC="yes" if you want Linux to change the clock.
> 
> Linux has no way to know if the time change was done (nor windows),
> unless the systems are syncing with other clock (NTP), so both of them
> will boot up and think this "local" time is the winter time.
> 
> The systems may still register if they already did the timezone change,
> so that they know what to do (that was the case with windows 98).
> 
> > I had to boot into MSWindows to check what happens there and the clock
> > was showing the new winter time.  After that the Linux clock was also
> > showing the updated winter time.
> > 
> > Does this mean that twice a year when the clock changes I need to boot
> > into MSWindows first to allow the time change to take place, or is there
> > a Linux side fix for my dual boot set up?
> 
> You can write something so that Linux changes the clock, but then be
> sure Windows is not set to change it.
> my
> A better (read "more complicated") solution would involve some sync
> mechanism between both operating systems so that one can tell if the
> other already changed the clock.
> 
> Unless windows now supports UTC clocks, you have to live either with
> this or with an always on winter clock on windows.

Thanks Nuno, this explains well why my Gentoo did not change the time - I do 
not have NTP set up on it and rely on MSWindows to sync with a time server 
once a month or so that I boot into it for just this reason.  This is a new 
laptop and it seems to keep the time reliably for now.  In the future I may 
well set up NTP if I find that the time in Gentoo is drifting (enough for me 
to notice).
-- 
Regards,
Mick

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Nuno J. Silva]

Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sunday 31 October 2010 13:29:20 Nuno J. Silva wrote:
>> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
>> > On Sunday 31 October 2010 10:05:15 Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> >> On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> >> > All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
>> >> > savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning
>> >> 
>> >> That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday. My
>> >> Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this morning, and
>> >> so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen wall.
>> >> 
>> >> I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.
>> >> 
>> >  :-(
>> > 
>> > Thanks Peter, do you dual boot with MSWindows?
>> > 
>> > I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual boot
>> > with MSWindows.  A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to winter time
>> > correctly - so it must be my dual boot set up that is causing this
>> > problem.
>> 
>> It is a problem caused by the settings needed for Linux to live with
>> Windows on the same computer.
>
> Is there a fix?  I thought that the setting of CLOCK="local" in 
> /etc/conf.d/clock was to address the problem of having to dual boot with 
> MSWindows.

That is the setting I was talking about (I wonder why I said
"setting*s*" before, sorry for that).

It is used to address the problem that Windows expects the hardware
clock to have the local time value (hence "local"), that is, what you
see when you ask the computer what time is it. Because the usual setting
is UTC, that is, time with no timezone and/or DST "shift" - GNU/linux
does the math and shows you your local time. Local time clock forces you
(or the OS) to change it every time there is some DST change.

In other words, that makes linux use the hardware clock the same way
windows uses it.

-- 
Nuno J. Silva
gopher://sdf-eu.org/1/users/njsg

[gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Nuno J. Silva]

nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt (Nuno J. Silva) writes:

> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Does this mean that twice a year when the clock changes I need to boot into 
>> MSWindows first to allow the time change to take place, or is there a Linux 
>> side fix for my dual boot set up?
>
> You can write something so that Linux changes the clock, but then be
> sure Windows is not set to change it.
>
> A better (read "more complicated") solution would involve some sync
> mechanism between both operating systems so that one can tell if the
> other already changed the clock.
>
> Unless windows now supports UTC clocks, you have to live either with
> this or with an always on winter clock on windows.

The last paragraph is not actually correct, sorry for that: many of you
will get weird hours on Windows if you set the clock to UTC. Here it is
just winter time because this is WEST and WET (Europe/Lisbon and
others), and our winter time happens to be UTC+0000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_Time

-- 
Nuno J. Silva
gopher://sdf-eu.org/1/users/njsg

[gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Nuno J. Silva]

Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sunday 31 October 2010 13:29:20 Nuno J. Silva wrote:
>> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual boot
>> > with MSWindows.  A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to winter time
>> > correctly - so it must be my dual boot set up that is causing this
>> > problem.
>> 
>> It is a problem caused by the settings needed for Linux to live with
>> Windows on the same computer.
>
> Is there a fix?  I thought that the setting of CLOCK="local" in 
> /etc/conf.d/clock was to address the problem of having to dual boot with 
> MSWindows.

Maybe this is useful: Some webpages report a registry key which can be
set so that windows interprets the hardware clock as UTC:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation]
"RealTimeIsUniversal"=dword:00000001


This same page says also:

> It seems to work most of the "time" for me but 1 or twice a day the
> clock changes to the timezone offset again. I just have to do a w32tm
> /resync /nowait to fix it. My suspicion is that the clock applet in
> the tray is monkeying it up.

So I don't know if this Just Works™.

http://weblogs.asp.net/dfindley/archive/2006/06/20/Set-hardware-clock-to-UTC-on-Windows-_2800_or-how-to-make-the-clock-work-on-a-Mac-Book-Pro_2900_.aspx

-- 
Nuno J. Silva
gopher://sdf-eu.org/1/users/njsg

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 2554 bytes --]

On Sunday 31 October 2010 16:02:14 Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Sunday 31 October 2010 13:29:20 Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> >> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
> >> > On Sunday 31 October 2010 10:05:15 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> >> >> On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >> >> > All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
> >> >> > savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning
> >> >> 
> >> >> That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday.
> >> >> My Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this
> >> >> morning, and so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen
> >> >> wall.
> >> >> 
> >> >> I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.
> >> >> 
> >> >  :-(
> >> > 
> >> > Thanks Peter, do you dual boot with MSWindows?
> >> > 
> >> > I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual
> >> > boot with MSWindows.  A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to
> >> > winter time correctly - so it must be my dual boot set up that is
> >> > causing this problem.
> >> 
> >> It is a problem caused by the settings needed for Linux to live with
> >> Windows on the same computer.
> > 
> > Is there a fix?  I thought that the setting of CLOCK="local" in
> > /etc/conf.d/clock was to address the problem of having to dual boot with
> > MSWindows.
> 
> That is the setting I was talking about (I wonder why I said
> "setting*s*" before, sorry for that).
> 
> It is used to address the problem that Windows expects the hardware
> clock to have the local time value (hence "local"), that is, what you
> see when you ask the computer what time is it. Because the usual setting
> is UTC, that is, time with no timezone and/or DST "shift" - GNU/linux
> does the math and shows you your local time. Local time clock forces you
> (or the OS) to change it every time there is some DST change.

I think I am getting confused, so why didn't Gentoo change the clock to winter 
time until after I booted into MSWindows?

> In other words, that makes linux use the hardware clock the same way
> windows uses it.

MSWindows changed it to winter time when I eventually booted into it.  Gentoo 
wouldn't show the winter time until I had first booted into MSWindows.  If the 
setting CLOCK="local" is meant to make Gentoo use the hardware clock like 
MSWindows does, why it did not behave the same as MSWindows with the DST 
change?
-- 
Regards,
Mick

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Winter clock change did not happen

[Jacob Todd]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 60 bytes --]

Why don't you just use openntpd ( or whatever it's called)?

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 75 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 1833 bytes --]

On Sunday 31 October 2010 16:18:38 Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Sunday 31 October 2010 13:29:20 Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> >> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
> >> > I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual
> >> > boot with MSWindows.  A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to
> >> > winter time correctly - so it must be my dual boot set up that is
> >> > causing this problem.
> >> 
> >> It is a problem caused by the settings needed for Linux to live with
> >> Windows on the same computer.
> > 
> > Is there a fix?  I thought that the setting of CLOCK="local" in
> > /etc/conf.d/clock was to address the problem of having to dual boot with
> > MSWindows.
> 
> Maybe this is useful: Some webpages report a registry key which can be
> set so that windows interprets the hardware clock as UTC:
> 
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation]
> "RealTimeIsUniversal"=dword:00000001
> 
> This same page says also:
> > It seems to work most of the "time" for me but 1 or twice a day the
> > clock changes to the timezone offset again. I just have to do a w32tm
> > /resync /nowait to fix it. My suspicion is that the clock applet in
> > the tray is monkeying it up.
> 
> So I don't know if this Just Works™.
> 
> http://weblogs.asp.net/dfindley/archive/2006/06/20/Set-hardware-clock-to-UT
> C-on-Windows-_2800_or-how-to-make-the-clock-work-on-a-Mac-Book-Pro_2900_.as
> px

Thanks for this!

I added the DWORD value above in my MSWindows 7 registry rebooted and nothing 
seems to have broken (yet).

Then I booted into Gentoo, changed CLOCK from "local" to "UTC" and it all 
seems to work fine so far.  I'll let you know how things work out in 6 months 
time!  Ha!
-- 
Regards,
Mick

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 2089 bytes --]

On Sunday 31 October 2010 17:03:32 Graham Murray wrote:
> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
> > MSWindows changed it to winter time when I eventually booted into it. 
> > Gentoo wouldn't show the winter time until I had first booted into
> > MSWindows.  If the setting CLOCK="local" is meant to make Gentoo use the
> > hardware clock like MSWindows does, why it did not behave the same as
> > MSWindows with the DST change?
> 
> Gentoo uses the "CLOCK=" value when it boots. It uses this to determine
> the initial system time. If you set to 'UTC' then the appropriate
> timezone offset will be applied. If it is set to 'LOCAL' then Gentoo
> assumes (and it has to) that the HWClock is set to the correct local
> time, including the correct Daylight Saving correction.
> 
> So, if Gentoo was running at the time of the clock change then the
> system time would have changed from Summer to Winter time. However, if
> Gentoo was not running and you booted it this morning then it would,
> legitimately, assume that HW Clock had been set to the correct local
> time prior to it be booted. When you booted into MSWindows, it changed
> the time on the HW Clock to be Winter time (ie it put it back 1 hour),
> so that next time you booted into Gentoo the HW clock was set to the
> correct local time. With CLOCK="LOCAL", when you boot for the first time
> after a Summer/Winter time change, Gentoo has no way to telling whether
> or not something else (eg MSWindows or manually via the BIOS setup) has
> already changed the HW clock to Summer/Winter time.

Thank you Graham for your very detailed reply!  I understand now why the 
problem exists.  I have used the registry change suggested by Nuno on Win7 and 
will see what gives next time DST changes.  I just hope that it'll work 
without having *both* OS shifting the clock by one hour ...

The more I read this page[1] the more I am tempted to format MSWindows out of 
this box whether the warranty is still valid or not!

[1] http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/mswish/ut-rtc.html
-- 
Regards,
Mick

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Winter clock change did not happen

[Stéphane Guedon]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 818 bytes --]

Le Sunday 31 October 2010 17:35:56, Jacob Todd a écrit :
> Why don't you just use openntpd ( or whatever it's called)?

ntp service (such as openntpd or regular ntp itself) doesn't lookup at the 
time printed on the desktop ! They work in utc time, furnishing a stable base 
of time. It's the os' job to convert it in local time (and winter/summer 
time).

For example, a openntpd launched in a chinese computer (and we know certainly 
that chinese computers have really different times than ours !) would have the 
hour of London (because it work in timestamp, which is a way to print utc) !

-- 
Stéphane Guedon
page web : http://www.22decembre.eu/
carte de visite : http://www.22decembre.eu/downloads/Stephane-Guedon.vcf
clé publique gpg : http://www.22decembre.eu/downloads/Stephane-Guedon.asc

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Kevin O'Gorman]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2453 bytes --]

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sunday 31 October 2010 17:03:32 Graham Murray wrote:
> > Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
> > > MSWindows changed it to winter time when I eventually booted into it.
> > > Gentoo wouldn't show the winter time until I had first booted into
> > > MSWindows.  If the setting CLOCK="local" is meant to make Gentoo use
> the
> > > hardware clock like MSWindows does, why it did not behave the same as
> > > MSWindows with the DST change?
> >
> > Gentoo uses the "CLOCK=" value when it boots. It uses this to determine
> > the initial system time. If you set to 'UTC' then the appropriate
> > timezone offset will be applied. If it is set to 'LOCAL' then Gentoo
> > assumes (and it has to) that the HWClock is set to the correct local
> > time, including the correct Daylight Saving correction.
> >
> > So, if Gentoo was running at the time of the clock change then the
> > system time would have changed from Summer to Winter time. However, if
> > Gentoo was not running and you booted it this morning then it would,
> > legitimately, assume that HW Clock had been set to the correct local
> > time prior to it be booted. When you booted into MSWindows, it changed
> > the time on the HW Clock to be Winter time (ie it put it back 1 hour),
> > so that next time you booted into Gentoo the HW clock was set to the
> > correct local time. With CLOCK="LOCAL", when you boot for the first time
> > after a Summer/Winter time change, Gentoo has no way to telling whether
> > or not something else (eg MSWindows or manually via the BIOS setup) has
> > already changed the HW clock to Summer/Winter time.
>
> Thank you Graham for your very detailed reply!  I understand now why the
> problem exists.  I have used the registry change suggested by Nuno on Win7
> and
> will see what gives next time DST changes.  I just hope that it'll work
> without having *both* OS shifting the clock by one hour ...
>
> The more I read this page[1] the more I am tempted to format MSWindows out
> of
> this box whether the warranty is still valid or not!
>
> [1] http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/mswish/ut-rtc.html<http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/%7Emgk25/mswish/ut-rtc.html>
> --
> Regards,
> Mick
>

You guys had me scared for a bit.  But I'm in the USA, where the change
happens in
the morning of the first Sunday in November, which will be the 7th.

I can wait.

++ kevin


-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3177 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Winter clock change did not happen

[Alan McKinnon]

Apparently, though unproven, at 12:05 on Sunday 31 October 2010, Peter 
Humphrey did opine thusly:

> On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
> > savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning
> 
> That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday. My
> Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this morning, and
> so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen wall.
> 
> I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.

Ok, well that explains that then. I'm not in the UK or anywhere near Europe 
either.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Willie Wong]

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 05:24:23PM +0000, Mick wrote:
> Thank you Graham for your very detailed reply!  I understand now why the 
> problem exists.  I have used the registry change suggested by Nuno on Win7 and 
> will see what gives next time DST changes.  I just hope that it'll work 
> without having *both* OS shifting the clock by one hour ...
> 
> The more I read this page[1] the more I am tempted to format MSWindows out of 
> this box whether the warranty is still valid or not!
> 
> [1] http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/mswish/ut-rtc.html

Or just cheat like I do. I set Windows to GMT with no daylight saving
offset, so it won't be tempted into playing with my system clock.
Gentoo thinks CLOCK="UTC". I don't boot into Windows often enough to
care about the clock being off by an hour during the summer (or
roughly 5 hours year-round when I move back to the States). Having
long accepted that Operating System is broken, when should I demand it
to keep the right time? ;)

Just my two pence

W

-- 
Willie W. Wong                                     wwong@math.princeton.edu
Data aequatione quotcunque fluentes quantitae involvente fluxiones invenire 
         et vice versa   ~~~  I. Newton

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 1252 bytes --]

On Sunday 31 October 2010 22:24:58 Willie Wong wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 05:24:23PM +0000, Mick wrote:
> > Thank you Graham for your very detailed reply!  I understand now why the
> > problem exists.  I have used the registry change suggested by Nuno on
> > Win7 and will see what gives next time DST changes.  I just hope that
> > it'll work without having *both* OS shifting the clock by one hour ...
> > 
> > The more I read this page[1] the more I am tempted to format MSWindows
> > out of this box whether the warranty is still valid or not!
> > 
> > [1] http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/mswish/ut-rtc.html
> 
> Or just cheat like I do. I set Windows to GMT with no daylight saving
> offset, so it won't be tempted into playing with my system clock.
> Gentoo thinks CLOCK="UTC". I don't boot into Windows often enough to
> care about the clock being off by an hour during the summer (or
> roughly 5 hours year-round when I move back to the States). Having
> long accepted that Operating System is broken, when should I demand it
> to keep the right time? ;)
> 
> Just my two pence

I like it!  Stop the bloody thing messing about with the clock altogether and 
leave Gentoo to manage it safely.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Winter clock change did not happen

[Grant Edwards]

On 2010-10-31, Willie Wong <wwong@Math.Princeton.EDU> wrote:

> Or just cheat like I do. I set Windows to GMT with no daylight saving
> offset, so it won't be tempted into playing with my system clock.
> Gentoo thinks CLOCK="UTC". I don't boot into Windows often enough to
> care about the clock being off by an hour during the summer (or
> roughly 5 hours year-round when I move back to the States). Having
> long accepted that Operating System is broken, when should I demand
> it to keep the right time? ;)

That's always been my solution.  On my newest laptop, I just gave up
on windows and erased Vista completely.  On the occasions I need to do
stuff like income tax, I think I'm going to run MacOS.  Don't tell
Steve Jobs.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! I'm not an Iranian!!
                                  at               I voted for Dianne
                              gmail.com            Feinstein!!