From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OTbjJ-0006e1-M5 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:24:05 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D01C1C002; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:23:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.virtyou.com (mx.virtyou.com [94.23.166.77]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74AE1C002 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:23:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from weird.localnet (p4FF07A7D.dip.t-dialin.net [79.240.122.125]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.virtyou.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7B0814A8010 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:23:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Alex Schuster To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here! Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:23:48 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.3 (Linux/2.6.33-tuxonice-r2; KDE/4.4.4; x86_64; ; ) References: <1277766970.4c292d3a54f96@oo.vpn.blueboxsoft.pl> In-Reply-To: <1277766970.4c292d3a54f96@oo.vpn.blueboxsoft.pl> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Length: 15205 X-UID: 761 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <201006291623.48783.wonko@wonkology.org> X-Archives-Salt: ab93f925-808b-44b8-b7bc-cf5a0ea909ca X-Archives-Hash: 7b2d81744035e24c9e86c2498ff8e234 Mateusz Mierzwi=C5=84ski writes: > I have KDE4. It work's perfect. Whooo, now at least this sounds good! > Try set "Custom-cxxflags" to off, > maybe this will help. From my opinion KDE and QT 4 don't like > customized C/CXX Flags, such as fomit-frame-pointer and similar. I have: CFLAGS=3D"-march=3Dk8-sse3 -mfpmath=3Dsse -O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" AFAIK -fomit-frame-pointer should be perfectly safe, at the only cost of=20 making debugging harder. I already thought about removing it anyway, so my= =20 bug reports will make more sense. BTW, does anyone know _how_ _much_ this=20 flag is suposed to seed things up, is it even noticeable? And then I just loked at the Safe CFLAGS page [*], and it says: The flag -fomit-frame-pointer is enabled at -O1, -O2, -O3 and -Os on arches where it doesn't interfere with debugging, such as AMD64, but not x86. So if you're on x86 you should add it to your CFLAGS. About -mfpmath=3Dsse: I think I enabled it after a discussion about what - march=3Dnative would do. Now the gcc documentation [2] says: For the i386 compiler, you need to use -march=3Dcpu-type, -msse or -msse2 switches to enable SSE extensions and make this option effective. For the x86-64 compiler, these extensions are enabled by default. So I will turn off both -mfpmath=3Dsse and -fomit-frame-pointer, but it=20 would change nothing. > Try to set correct USE flags They should be okay I think... > and first of all - add DBUS to default runlevel if Your "Welcome" screen > don't work - it works for me. I once had this problem, but now DBUS is in the default runlevel. > You should also have Hald for X.org configuration.=20 Do you mean I should configure X via the /etc/hal/fdi/policy/ that will be= =20 obsolete soon? I have the hal USE flag set, but X is configured by=20 xorg.conf only. > BTW. I don't use any desktop mail client - I've chosen GroupOffice > for web client with IMAP support and great tool for my work - safer > because of laptop disk crashes or similar - data is stored external > and it's delivered by OpenVPN with certificate nad data encryption.=20 Uh, I just hate web clients. That's what I have a desktop environment for,= =20 with consistent looking applications, shortcuts, drag&drop and what else. I am using kmail with IMAP over SSL. > Chromium as major web browser, I tried chromium once, about half a year ago, but it crashed instantly.=20 Emerging it again. But I like Konqueror very much. It has problems with=20 some web sites, for those I use Firefox. I am missing some of Firefox'=20 plugins, and it works much better with the new flash, but over all I like=20 Konqueror's behaviour better. Maybe I could change Firefox behaviour in=20 the advanced settings, I did not look into this yet. And from time to time= =20 =46riefox also gives me trouble, and I have to remove my profile directory= =20 to make it start again. Chromium is built, and seems to work. Oh, it's fast. And uses few memory.=20 And even has web shortcuts, that's great. And flash just works, while=20 konquerro has major problems with it. > Subversion integrated with KDE, Wicd > as network configuration daemon. Also Kadu as IM, wine + winamp, > OpenOffice. Not installed Compiz for now, but I have it on my plans.=20 Here: CVS via command line, static network configuration, kopete, Amarok=20 (which I find beautiful), occasionally OpenOffice. > Login screen works great, loading is realy fast. Only one problem > with Bluetooth but i think it's device fault - device USB connector > broken. Everyday working with dual-head 2 monitors - KDE 4 detects > when I connect another monitor, soundcard and Xine integration into > phonon works with no glitches. Other tools like SSH/SFTP integrated > into konqueror works great - konqueror itself also perfect! Ah, so you DO like konqueror! Great.=20 > It's good, it's fast, it's intuitive, it's "better desktop software", > it's XXI century desktop environment, not such as Gnome and funny > "icons trashroom" on desktop. I mostly agree. If only there weren't all those little bugs. It still=20 looks quite unfinished to me. Ican somehow live with these bugs, but I am not sure if I should recommend= =20 KDE4 for others. At my institute we are also using KDE4 now, which makes=20 some things convenient. But it is bad to have nice dolphin shortcuts to=20 =46TP locations, and dolphin cannot read remote files when they contain=20 umlauts. And you you need to have another way of getting them. For the=20 users, it might be easier to learn this second, reliable method only,=20 instead of also learning to use the more convenient one which sometimes=20 does not work. > Why KDE? Because i like it. Don't say that this software SUCKS, > _check_Your_config_. If You have problem try to remove .kde or .kde4 > folder in Your home directory and recreate profile. I just did this some days ago and re-created most things from scratch,=20 except for kmail. That was a lot of work BTW, I spent a couple of hours=20 doing that. Some things are fixed indeed, but most problems persist. BTW, I had made some screenshots of my desktops after this, when most=20 things were set up again as I like them. http://www.wonkology.org/comp/desktop/2010-06-19/ And I recently switched from ~x86 to ~amd64, without a change in KDE4's=20 behaviour. Here's a list of my current KDE bugs. There are many, fortunately most of=20 them are really minor issues. ANNOYING: Plasma: =2D The add plasmoids menu that opens above the panel is hard to access as= =20 it closes most often when I move the mouse into it. =2D Moving a plasmoid from the panel onto the desktop is probably supposed= =20 to work (why else would the drag operation start at all?), but it makes=20 plasma crash. Fortunately, it restarts automatically and things are as=20 before, except for a minimized 'JavaEmbeddedFrame' application which I=20 cannot restore or close. Whatever. =2D The comic plasmoid refuses to show an increasing number of comics, and= =20 currently after login does not show any at all. And does not keep the size= =20 I give it. =2D Moving and resizing plasmoids does not always work, they just plop back= =20 into their last position and size. After some tries, it finally works, but= =20 at the next login they are back to where they were sometimes. Kontact: =2D Sometimes complains at system startup that it is already running. =2D Sometimes segfaults when closing, and does not start again until I kill= =20 it process manually. =2D When adding a new contact, I sometimes cannot select an address book to= =20 store as the dialog shows none. Restarting kontact helps, but I have to=20 fill out everything again. =2D Probably related: all contacts sometimes all have the same information= =20 in them. =2D Akonadi sometimes complains about missing resource agents when logging= =20 into KDE. Kopete: =2D Shows me as online, but is not. Probably related to hibernating, going= =20 offline and online again fixes this. =2D Pressing the back / Forward button repeatedly and fast gives a message= =20 that I just received a message from that contact, and asks whether the=20 chat sould really be cleared. Okay, I just pause a little (1/2 second)=20 between each press, so it's no problem. But these things look to me as the= =20 authors of kopete did not try such things theirselves, or else they would=20 have fixed them. Kmail: =2D Allows for multiple tabs, but then in these tabs new messages are not=20 shown (only in the folder list). So, they added a nice feature, but to=20 actually see new mails I have to close the tabs and select the folder=20 again. =2D I can not open a new tab when mails for an account are fetched. =2D Attachements are sometimes saved with a size of 0. Bad if you do not=20 check and realize this much later. has not happened for a while, it#s=20 probably fixed, but I still check just in case. =2D The 'g' key sometimes does nothing. =2D Sometimes the mouse is not shown inside kmail. =2D Sometimes checks IMAP folders but never stops, aborting doe snot help,= =20 needs to be restarted. =2D Once showed a mail on gentoo-user with my address, but I was not the=20 author of this message. =2D Going offline while some move operation is still pending makes it hang. =2D When searching large folders, a message appears telling me that first=20 all messages of folder X have to be downloaded, and this will take some=20 time. It appears for every folder (I surely had MANY of them), and the 'do= =20 not ask again' checkbox does not prevent this. So I spent a while=20 accepting t =2D kmail used to save messages I was composing, and the auto-save interbva= l=20 is still set. But when it crashes, or even if I quit it regularly, it has=20 forgotten about mails I was currently composing. Konqueror: =2D Also somtimes has no mouse cursor inside its window. =2D Bookmark editor still crashes sometimes =2D Sometimes shows a weird scrolling problem when scolling a page down=20 works, but when dragging the slider only updates a few lines of pixels at=20 the top. Opening the page in a new tab and closing the old one helps. =2D When scrolling with the mouse wheel, it sometimes srolls to the right,= =20 too. =2D Seldomly when scrolling a page down, it scrolls down and down until at= =20 the end of the page. =2D Crashes fairly often, for example when scrolling in the shoutbox of a=20 phpbb forum. I did not find such a forum with open access so I could not=20 report this bug. =2D In new tabs, the first click on a link sometimes does nothing. =2D The saved session sometimes misses a window. =2D The saved sessino sometimes shows tabs with old content, even older tha= n=20 when the session was saved. =2D At session startup, I get the crash recovery dialog for some of the=20 konquerors which were open when I logged out last time. Dolphin: =2D Sometimes shows artifats that look like the shape of the preview window= ,=20 but show other parts of the desktop. =2D Needs double logins for FTP . =2D Sometimes does not update the display after uploading files via FTP. =2D Does not allow to download files with umlauts via FTP (I have to do thi= s=20 regularly) =2D Once sorted files like this: Foo-1.srt, Foo-2.avi, Foo-1.avi, Foo-2.srt Krunner (this Alt-F2 thing): =2D Is really slow sometimes =2D Currently crashes when I enter someting. Misc: =2D Knode once forgot all old messages. =2D knotes shows the scrollbar only when the mouse is inside it, and change= s=20 the layout becausethe scrollbar needs additional space. Okay, really not a= =20 bad bug, but still it's a little annoying as things I want to mark move=20 around when I enter the window. =2D Konsole lets me select other profiles only after I enable them first in= =20 the profile dialog. =2D kalgebra once did wrong calculations with large numbers. Fixed long ago= ,=20 but these ar ethe kind of bugs I do not want to have. What use is a=20 calculator, when I have do double check with another one just in case it=20 is wrong again? =2D KDE 3.5 had a nice print preview, but it seems there is none in KDE 4? =2D Nepomuk once used several gigabytes for its database. Does no longer=20 happen, but then this may be because it crashes before. When logging in to= =20 KD, strigi starts indexing, crashes after a minute, indexes the same=20 folders again, crashes again, until it stops completely after some more=20 crashes. At least now it crashes after a minute, with my old setup when I=20 let it index my MP3s, it ran for days. So I have strigi desactivated. =2D Saving a session often does not work correctly, so I never ever do this= =20 without making a backup of my .kde4 directory. =2D The 'explosion' desktop effect when closing windows is nice, but also=20 happens for the little display of current size and position that appears=20 when moving a window around, and as such gets on my nerves. Yeees, this is= =20 really no big deal, but it's on my list of bugs anyway, and I think it=20 shows that the KDE guys do not test or use these things much, or do not=20 care much about it. =2D I have the Windows key as modifier wor window stuff, instead of Alt. I= =20 can select Meta-Shift-Tab in order to switch backwards though windows, but= =20 it does not work. So I'm using Meta-Caps-Tab isntead for this. =2D Some dialog windows of a specific application always open in the=20 background, behind other windows. I checked the window settings, they are=20 empty. =2D After playing Quake3, the panel has black areas. Switching Composite of= f=20 and on again (Alt-Shift-F12) usually fixes this. For other OpenGL=20 applications like Nexuiz, I have to open another window manager on another= =20 X server, as this sometimes has the weirdest effecs to the KDE desktop. =2D Amarok: Did not play streams, showed a corrupted collection for several= =20 times, sometimes just did not play, refused drag&drop, lost tags I had=20 set, killed .ogg files when editing tags, took 7 minutes for startup...=20 but these seem all to fixed. =2D Automatic spell checking in applications like kmail or konqueror does=20 not happen in KDE 4.4.4. You will find lots of typos in this mail that I=20 would have corrected else. When still working, it had trouble with=20 abbreviations which were always shown as errors, and it sometimes refused=20 to add words to the custom dictionary. =2D KsCD once did not find my CD-ROM. When I just wanted to test this again= ,=20 Amarok starts checking the CD, and is very busy with that, for several=20 minutes now. The information thingy in the tray shows 0/11 tasks, all with= =20 empty progress bars and no further information. Using the desktop got=20 really slow, some mouse clicks took 20 seconds to take place, I=20 accidentally removed the system tray while clicking around, and the system= =20 was so slow it took me a while to add the tray again, even after I ejected= =20 the CD. This is a good example of what I experience often: I do some=20 something new, like inserting a CD, and weird things start to happen. But=20 at least KsCD seems to work now. Oh, even though I closed KsCD and removed= =20 the CD, and I do not seem it in the system tray, it still eats up 10 % of=20 my CPU power. =2D Occasionally, the phonon sound system does not work. I get a message=20 about this during login. Next login, all is fine again. =2D And why is it not possible to save multiple marked files via drag&drop= =20 in ark? REALLY ANNOYING: =2D kontact crashes when started for a second time, which sometimes=20 accidentally happens to me. Mails I was composing are lost. =2D For two times, plasmoids were on the wrong desktop. As moving them=20 around to other desktops / activities does not seem to be possible, I edit= =20 =2Ekde4/share/config/plasma-desktop-appletsrc directly to make them appear= =20 on their usual places. =2D About once a day, only parts of the last active applications reacts to= =20 the mouse. Seems to happen in konqueror only. I can click links, but the=20 menus do not work. When I kill it, the next allication which gets the=20 input focus gets partially responsive to the mouse. I have to log out,=20 which is possible only via Ctrl-Alt-Del and waiting for 30 seconds, I=20 cannot even confirm the logout requester. Okay, there's also Ctrl-Alt- Shift-Del, whcih I just found out about. I thought this might be related=20 to javascript, as it only happens in konqueror, so I turned it off, and it= =20 did not happen for two days, but then it did. Oh, and then it just=20 happened again, while composing this mail. At least I can switch to this=20 window and save this as draft. But this time Ctrl-Alt-Del does not work, I= =20 have to restart KDM. =2D Back again. What happened some days ago was a corrupted KDE wallet,=20 which made kwalletmanager not start. I got dozends of dialog windows from=20 various applications like kmail or kopete, and additionaly lots of=20 kwalletmanager crash windows. =2D Longer ago I experienced a bug even worse. When the KDE password dialog= =20 was set to show three bullets per character, it did not work. I had no=20 access to my wallet, could not use kmail, or access FTP locations with=20 dolphin. Took me quite a while until I finally found out myself what=20 setting was responsible for that. A total show stopper. The bug was fixed=20 two months after it had been reported, which I find is quite a long time=20 for such a serious bug. That's most of it. I did not yet report too many of them yet, mostly=20 because I thought the developers also use KDE and already know many, but=20 then maybe they happen to few people only. Wonko =20 [1] http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Safe_Cflags [2] http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.3.0/gcc/i386-and-x86_002d64- Options.html#i386-and-x86_002d64-Options