public inbox for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
* [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
@ 2010-06-16 23:05 Jake Moe
  2010-06-17  0:48 ` [gentoo-user] " walt
  2010-06-17 10:38 ` [gentoo-user] " Roger Mason
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Jake Moe @ 2010-06-16 23:05 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

I've just completed a fresh Gentoo installation on a new laptop, and
strangely, after I choose the entry from the Grub screen, all I get is:

  Booting `Gentoo Linux 2.6.32-r7`

root (hd0,1)
 Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
kernel /kernel-2.6.32-gentoo-r7 root=/dev/sda4
   [Linux-bzImage, setup=0x3000, size=0x1ab020]

It then sits there.  No error, no other messages.  The hard drive light
stops, and the Num Lock and Caps Lock keys don't respond.  If I press
the power button, it immediately turns off.

The laptop is a HP 8440p and I've installed amd64.  I've followed the
install guide, and the hard drive has Windows, EXT2 /boot, swap, EXT3 /
on it.  I've compiled EXT2, EXT3 and SATA AHCI into the kernel.

Does anyone have any idea what I've forgotten or missed?  If you need
more info, let me know.  Thanks for any help you can give.

Jake Moe



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* [gentoo-user] Re: Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-16 23:05 [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error Jake Moe
@ 2010-06-17  0:48 ` walt
  2010-06-17  1:02   ` Alex Schuster
  2010-06-17 10:38 ` [gentoo-user] " Roger Mason
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: walt @ 2010-06-17  0:48 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 06/16/2010 04:05 PM, Jake Moe wrote:
> I've just completed a fresh Gentoo installation on a new laptop, and
> strangely, after I choose the entry from the Grub screen, all I get is:
>
>    Booting `Gentoo Linux 2.6.32-r7`
>
> root (hd0,1)
>   Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
> kernel /kernel-2.6.32-gentoo-r7 root=/dev/sda4
>     [Linux-bzImage, setup=0x3000, size=0x1ab020]

The only thing that looks a bit unusual is that your kernel-2.6.xxx
appears to be in the root directory instead of in /boot where it
usually lives.

Is that something you intended to do?  Did you install /boot on it's own
separate partition?  That's the way the gentoo install instructions were
written years ago -- but I confess I never did it that way and I've not
done a new install recently, so I've lost track.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-17  0:48 ` [gentoo-user] " walt
@ 2010-06-17  1:02   ` Alex Schuster
  2010-06-17  1:09     ` Jake Moe
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Alex Schuster @ 2010-06-17  1:02 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

walt writes:

> On 06/16/2010 04:05 PM, Jake Moe wrote:
> > I've just completed a fresh Gentoo installation on a new laptop, and
> > 
> > strangely, after I choose the entry from the Grub screen, all I get
> > is:
> >    Booting `Gentoo Linux 2.6.32-r7`
> > 
> > root (hd0,1)
> > 
> >   Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
> > 
> > kernel /kernel-2.6.32-gentoo-r7 root=/dev/sda4
> > 
> >     [Linux-bzImage, setup=0x3000, size=0x1ab020]
> 
> The only thing that looks a bit unusual is that your kernel-2.6.xxx
> appears to be in the root directory instead of in /boot where it
> usually lives.

No, that's okay, I have it the same way. The root (hd0,1) statement tells 
grub where the boot partition is, and all other paths are relative to 
that.

	Wonko



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-17  1:02   ` Alex Schuster
@ 2010-06-17  1:09     ` Jake Moe
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Jake Moe @ 2010-06-17  1:09 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 17/06/10 11:02, Alex Schuster wrote:
> walt writes:
>
>   
>> On 06/16/2010 04:05 PM, Jake Moe wrote:
>>     
>>> I've just completed a fresh Gentoo installation on a new laptop, and
>>>
>>> strangely, after I choose the entry from the Grub screen, all I get
>>> is:
>>>    Booting `Gentoo Linux 2.6.32-r7`
>>>
>>> root (hd0,1)
>>>
>>>   Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
>>>
>>> kernel /kernel-2.6.32-gentoo-r7 root=/dev/sda4
>>>
>>>     [Linux-bzImage, setup=0x3000, size=0x1ab020]
>>>       
>> The only thing that looks a bit unusual is that your kernel-2.6.xxx
>> appears to be in the root directory instead of in /boot where it
>> usually lives.
>>     
> No, that's okay, I have it the same way. The root (hd0,1) statement tells 
> grub where the boot partition is, and all other paths are relative to 
> that.
>
> 	Wonko
>
>   
Yeah, the original e-mail I mentioned that the second partition was an
EXT2 partition for /boot, and yes, as per the install instructions.  I
never liked the way the Gentoo install put a symlink in /boot, pointing
to /boot, in case you didn't do it that way, so the Grub menu would
still work as it's provided (hd0,0)/boot/kernel-xxx-etc., so I take the
/boot out of the Grub menu.lst file,and delete the symlink.  OCD on my
part, I imagine, but it works fine on my other Gentoo installs.

My first thought is that it's something in the kernel config I'm doing
wrong, but I can't see anything that looks obviously wrong, and the lack
of error message doesn't help things.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-16 23:05 [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error Jake Moe
  2010-06-17  0:48 ` [gentoo-user] " walt
@ 2010-06-17 10:38 ` Roger Mason
  2010-06-18  3:54   ` Jake Moe
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Roger Mason @ 2010-06-17 10:38 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

Jake,

Jake Moe <jakesaddress@gmail.com> writes:

> I've just completed a fresh Gentoo installation on a new laptop, and
> strangely, after I choose the entry from the Grub screen, all I get is:
>
>   Booting `Gentoo Linux 2.6.32-r7`
>
> root (hd0,1)
>  Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
> kernel /kernel-2.6.32-gentoo-r7 root=/dev/sda4
>    [Linux-bzImage, setup=0x3000, size=0x1ab020]
>
> It then sits there.  No error, no other messages.  The hard drive light
> stops, and the Num Lock and Caps Lock keys don't respond.  If I press
> the power button, it immediately turns off.
>
> The laptop is a HP 8440p and I've installed amd64.  I've followed the
> install guide, and the hard drive has Windows, EXT2 /boot, swap, EXT3 /
> on it.  I've compiled EXT2, EXT3 and SATA AHCI into the kernel.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what I've forgotten or missed?  If you need
> more info, let me know.  Thanks for any help you can give.

I had a similar problem about 6 weeks or so ago.  It turned out that the
hardware (a Dell Optiplex 320) and Grub were incompatible in some way.
I installed Lilo instead, and everything now works fine.  So, try
searching on your specific hardware to see if this is a known problem.

Roger



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-17 10:38 ` [gentoo-user] " Roger Mason
@ 2010-06-18  3:54   ` Jake Moe
  2010-06-18  4:05     ` Albert Hopkins
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Jake Moe @ 2010-06-18  3:54 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 17/06/10 20:38, Roger Mason wrote:
> Jake,
>
> Jake Moe <jakesaddress@gmail.com> writes:
>
>   
>> I've just completed a fresh Gentoo installation on a new laptop, and
>> strangely, after I choose the entry from the Grub screen, all I get is:
>>
>>   Booting `Gentoo Linux 2.6.32-r7`
>>
>> root (hd0,1)
>>  Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
>> kernel /kernel-2.6.32-gentoo-r7 root=/dev/sda4
>>    [Linux-bzImage, setup=0x3000, size=0x1ab020]
>>
>> It then sits there.  No error, no other messages.  The hard drive light
>> stops, and the Num Lock and Caps Lock keys don't respond.  If I press
>> the power button, it immediately turns off.
>>
>> The laptop is a HP 8440p and I've installed amd64.  I've followed the
>> install guide, and the hard drive has Windows, EXT2 /boot, swap, EXT3 /
>> on it.  I've compiled EXT2, EXT3 and SATA AHCI into the kernel.
>>
>> Does anyone have any idea what I've forgotten or missed?  If you need
>> more info, let me know.  Thanks for any help you can give.
>>     
> I had a similar problem about 6 weeks or so ago.  It turned out that the
> hardware (a Dell Optiplex 320) and Grub were incompatible in some way.
> I installed Lilo instead, and everything now works fine.  So, try
> searching on your specific hardware to see if this is a known problem.
>
> Roger
>
>   
I had tried to see if there was anything special about the hardware, but
couldn't find anything.  I'm still of the opinion that it's something to
do with the kernel, but I've given up on amd64 (I'm not sure if I've had
an amd64 Gentoo PC before) and switched back to x86, and other than
forgetting SCSI disk support in the kernel for my SATA disk (which I
*always* do, why can't they make SCSI disk support a requirement for
SATA AHCI support?), the install went smoothly.  The only other thing of
note is that I seem to need to use the unstable ndivia-drivers
(195.36.24), as the latest stable one (190.42-r3) produced flickering
garbage on my screen when I went into X.

Thanks for trying to those that did.

Jake Moe



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-18  3:54   ` Jake Moe
@ 2010-06-18  4:05     ` Albert Hopkins
  2010-06-18  4:26       ` Jake Moe
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Albert Hopkins @ 2010-06-18  4:05 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Fri, 2010-06-18 at 13:54 +1000, Jake Moe wrote:
> I had tried to see if there was anything special about the hardware,
> but
> couldn't find anything.  I'm still of the opinion that it's something
> to
> do with the kernel, but I've given up on amd64 (I'm not sure if I've
> had
> an amd64 Gentoo PC before) and switched back to x86, and other than
> forgetting SCSI disk support in the kernel for my SATA disk (which I
> *always* do, why can't they make SCSI disk support a requirement for
> SATA AHCI support?), the install went smoothly.  The only other thing
> of
> note is that I seem to need to use the unstable ndivia-drivers
> (195.36.24), as the latest stable one (190.42-r3) produced flickering
> garbage on my screen when I went into X.
> 
> Thanks for trying to those that did.
> 
> Jake Moe 

Did you compile your own kernel or use genkernel?  Did you try using the
same kernel config as the live cd (assuming that the livecd boots fine)?

-a




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-18  4:05     ` Albert Hopkins
@ 2010-06-18  4:26       ` Jake Moe
  2010-06-18 10:20         ` Albert Hopkins
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Jake Moe @ 2010-06-18  4:26 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 18/06/10 14:05, Albert Hopkins wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-06-18 at 13:54 +1000, Jake Moe wrote:
>   
>> I had tried to see if there was anything special about the hardware,
>> but
>> couldn't find anything.  I'm still of the opinion that it's something
>> to
>> do with the kernel, but I've given up on amd64 (I'm not sure if I've
>> had
>> an amd64 Gentoo PC before) and switched back to x86, and other than
>> forgetting SCSI disk support in the kernel for my SATA disk (which I
>> *always* do, why can't they make SCSI disk support a requirement for
>> SATA AHCI support?), the install went smoothly.  The only other thing
>> of
>> note is that I seem to need to use the unstable ndivia-drivers
>> (195.36.24), as the latest stable one (190.42-r3) produced flickering
>> garbage on my screen when I went into X.
>>
>> Thanks for trying to those that did.
>>
>> Jake Moe 
>>     
> Did you compile your own kernel or use genkernel?  Did you try using the
> same kernel config as the live cd (assuming that the livecd boots fine)?
>
> -a
>   
No, I was tempted to try genkernel, but again, OCD got the best of me; I
like Gentoo because I tell it what I want and need, and it does that and
nothing else.  Genkernel, in my understand, does everything (and
apparently does it pretty well), but it means that it's bigger than it
needs to be.  Plus, I hadn't gotten a reply back in a while, and I'm
limited on time with this laptop, so I went back to that which I know
better.

And I thought the Live CD used genkernel; I thought that was where
genkernel came from in the first place?  Is it different?

Jake Moe



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-18  4:26       ` Jake Moe
@ 2010-06-18 10:20         ` Albert Hopkins
  2010-06-19  1:40           ` Dale
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Albert Hopkins @ 2010-06-18 10:20 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Fri, 2010-06-18 at 14:26 +1000, Jake Moe wrote:
> No, I was tempted to try genkernel, but again, OCD got the best of me;
> I
> like Gentoo because I tell it what I want and need, and it does that
> and
> nothing else.  Genkernel, in my understand, does everything (and
> apparently does it pretty well), but it means that it's bigger than it
> needs to be.  Plus, I hadn't gotten a reply back in a while, and I'm
> limited on time with this laptop, so I went back to that which I know
> better.
> 
> And I thought the Live CD used genkernel; I thought that was where
> genkernel came from in the first place?  Is it different? 

I have no idea; I don't use genkernel.

All I'm saying is if you can try booting on a kernel you know at least
*should* work (such as the live cd or genkernel) and that works then at
least you can deduce it down to kernel config. 

-a




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-18 10:20         ` Albert Hopkins
@ 2010-06-19  1:40           ` Dale
  2010-06-21 14:32             ` Bill Longman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Dale @ 2010-06-19  1:40 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

Albert Hopkins wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-06-18 at 14:26 +1000, Jake Moe wrote:
>    
>> No, I was tempted to try genkernel, but again, OCD got the best of me;
>> I
>> like Gentoo because I tell it what I want and need, and it does that
>> and
>> nothing else.  Genkernel, in my understand, does everything (and
>> apparently does it pretty well), but it means that it's bigger than it
>> needs to be.  Plus, I hadn't gotten a reply back in a while, and I'm
>> limited on time with this laptop, so I went back to that which I know
>> better.
>>
>> And I thought the Live CD used genkernel; I thought that was where
>> genkernel came from in the first place?  Is it different?
>>      
> I have no idea; I don't use genkernel.
>
> All I'm saying is if you can try booting on a kernel you know at least
> *should* work (such as the live cd or genkernel) and that works then at
> least you can deduce it down to kernel config.
>
> -a
>
>    

This is funny.  I have NEVER got a genkernel to work on my system.  
Actually, on any system.  I'm not sure the OP would know that kernel is 
any better then the one he makes.

Dale

:-)  :-)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-19  1:40           ` Dale
@ 2010-06-21 14:32             ` Bill Longman
  2010-06-21 18:03               ` Dale
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Bill Longman @ 2010-06-21 14:32 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

<snip>
> This is funny.  I have NEVER got a genkernel to work on my system. 
> Actually, on any system.  I'm not sure the OP would know that kernel is
> any better then the one he makes.

Dale,

If you've never gotten genkernel to work, you should try this little
script that I've used for the past few years. I put it in /usr/src/gk
and I change into whatever /usr/src/kernel directory I'm going to
compile. Then, I just call "../gk all" and off it goes. Of course, if
you use lilo, it's a different story because I jumped out of the lilo
life raft years ago and managed to swim to shore.

Here's gk. Tweak to your environment:

CFLAGS="-O2 -march=barcelona -pipe" \
genkernel --lvm --menuconfig --save-config --oldconfig \
--bootloader=grub --install --symlink --kerneldir=$PWD \
--makeopts="-s -j4" "$@"

--
Bill



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-21 14:32             ` Bill Longman
@ 2010-06-21 18:03               ` Dale
  2010-06-21 18:26                 ` Alex Schuster
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Dale @ 2010-06-21 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

Bill Longman wrote:
> <snip>
>    
>> This is funny.  I have NEVER got a genkernel to work on my system.
>> Actually, on any system.  I'm not sure the OP would know that kernel is
>> any better then the one he makes.
>>      
> Dale,
>
> If you've never gotten genkernel to work, you should try this little
> script that I've used for the past few years. I put it in /usr/src/gk
> and I change into whatever /usr/src/kernel directory I'm going to
> compile. Then, I just call "../gk all" and off it goes. Of course, if
> you use lilo, it's a different story because I jumped out of the lilo
> life raft years ago and managed to swim to shore.
>
> Here's gk. Tweak to your environment:
>
> CFLAGS="-O2 -march=barcelona -pipe" \
> genkernel --lvm --menuconfig --save-config --oldconfig \
> --bootloader=grub --install --symlink --kerneldir=$PWD \
> --makeopts="-s -j4" "$@"
>
> --
> Bill
>    

I don't use genkernel anymore.  I just roll my own. That way, I know 
what is in there and what is not.  Then if something doesn't work, I 
know if it is the kernel or something else.  With genkernel, you won't 
have a clue what it is since you don't know much if anything about the 
kernel and how it is configured.

I'll pass.  As I have seen with others, genkernel doesn't work 
consistently enough.

Dale

:-)  :-)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-21 18:03               ` Dale
@ 2010-06-21 18:26                 ` Alex Schuster
  2010-06-21 19:01                   ` Dale
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Alex Schuster @ 2010-06-21 18:26 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

Dale writes:

> I don't use genkernel anymore.  I just roll my own. That way, I know
> what is in there and what is not.  Then if something doesn't work, I
> know if it is the kernel or something else.  With genkernel, you won't
> have a clue what it is since you don't know much if anything about the
> kernel and how it is configured.

That's not necessarily true. When I create a new kernel, I copy 
/usr/src/linux/.config into the new kernel directory, make oldconfig and 
menuconfig just as I like my kernel to be, and recreate the linux symlink 
to the new kernel directory. Then I do a genkernel --install --lvm --luks 
all && emerge -a @module-rebuild, and am done.
I never noticed genkernel changing anything in my configuration, .config, 
/proc/config.gz and the stuff in /etc/kernels/ are identical. Until not 
long ago, I did not even know that genkernel was intended to create a 
working kernel from scratch.

	Wonko




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-21 18:26                 ` Alex Schuster
@ 2010-06-21 19:01                   ` Dale
  2010-06-21 20:01                     ` Bill Longman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Dale @ 2010-06-21 19:01 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

Alex Schuster wrote:
> Dale writes:
>
>    
>> I don't use genkernel anymore.  I just roll my own. That way, I know
>> what is in there and what is not.  Then if something doesn't work, I
>> know if it is the kernel or something else.  With genkernel, you won't
>> have a clue what it is since you don't know much if anything about the
>> kernel and how it is configured.
>>      
> That's not necessarily true. When I create a new kernel, I copy
> /usr/src/linux/.config into the new kernel directory, make oldconfig and
> menuconfig just as I like my kernel to be, and recreate the linux symlink
> to the new kernel directory. Then I do a genkernel --install --lvm --luks
> all&&  emerge -a @module-rebuild, and am done.
> I never noticed genkernel changing anything in my configuration, .config,
> /proc/config.gz and the stuff in /etc/kernels/ are identical. Until not
> long ago, I did not even know that genkernel was intended to create a
> working kernel from scratch.
>
> 	Wonko
>
>    

I always do mine this way.  I copy the .config from the old kernel to 
the new kernel, run make oldconfig then afterwards make all && make 
modules_install and then copy the kernel to /boot with my own numbering 
system.  That way I know which version and series the kernel is.  After 
that, edit grub with the new kernel and I'm done.  I have only had that 
fail once in the past six years or so and the kernel made some serious 
changes and I had to start from scratch that one time.   They moved 
things around and oldconfig couldn't reorganize things on the new kernel.

Point being, genkernal causes issues for people and they don't know how 
to fix it because they expect genkernel to do everything.  Problem with 
that is that usually when someone has a kernel problem, they use 
genkernel.  If they do their own, it just works.  Now someone new to 
building a kernel may need some help but apparently genkernel needs some 
help anyway.  May as well learn how to roll your own.  This is Gentoo 
after all.

Dale

:-)  :-)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-21 19:01                   ` Dale
@ 2010-06-21 20:01                     ` Bill Longman
  2010-06-21 20:23                       ` Dale
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Bill Longman @ 2010-06-21 20:01 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 06/21/2010 12:01 PM, Dale wrote:
> Alex Schuster wrote:
>> Dale writes:
>>
>>   
>>> I don't use genkernel anymore.  I just roll my own. That way, I know
>>> what is in there and what is not.  Then if something doesn't work, I
>>> know if it is the kernel or something else.  With genkernel, you won't
>>> have a clue what it is since you don't know much if anything about the
>>> kernel and how it is configured.
>>>      
>> That's not necessarily true. When I create a new kernel, I copy
>> /usr/src/linux/.config into the new kernel directory, make oldconfig and
>> menuconfig just as I like my kernel to be, and recreate the linux symlink
>> to the new kernel directory. Then I do a genkernel --install --lvm --luks
>> all&&  emerge -a @module-rebuild, and am done.
>> I never noticed genkernel changing anything in my configuration, .config,
>> /proc/config.gz and the stuff in /etc/kernels/ are identical. Until not
>> long ago, I did not even know that genkernel was intended to create a
>> working kernel from scratch.
>>
>>     Wonko
>>
>>    
> 
> I always do mine this way.  I copy the .config from the old kernel to
> the new kernel, run make oldconfig then afterwards make all && make
> modules_install and then copy the kernel to /boot with my own numbering
> system.  That way I know which version and series the kernel is.  After
> that, edit grub with the new kernel and I'm done.  I have only had that
> fail once in the past six years or so and the kernel made some serious
> changes and I had to start from scratch that one time.   They moved
> things around and oldconfig couldn't reorganize things on the new kernel.
> 
> Point being, genkernal causes issues for people and they don't know how
> to fix it because they expect genkernel to do everything.  Problem with
> that is that usually when someone has a kernel problem, they use
> genkernel.  If they do their own, it just works.  Now someone new to
> building a kernel may need some help but apparently genkernel needs some
> help anyway.  May as well learn how to roll your own.  This is Gentoo
> after all.

The only thing that genkernel would add is your initrd. The kernel is
exactly the same, whether you compile it with "make" or through
"genkernel". Do a test and you'll see. (I'm assuming we're both talking
about gentoo-sources, not vanilla-sources. Either way, they'd be the
same.) Some might be confused about what happens in the steps if they
haven't been down the "kernel compilation trail" more than once or
twice, but for folks who just want to compile their kernel and plop it
into place, along with a hands-off initrd, it's rather handy.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-21 20:01                     ` Bill Longman
@ 2010-06-21 20:23                       ` Dale
  2010-06-21 22:00                         ` Bill Longman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Dale @ 2010-06-21 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

Bill Longman wrote:
> On 06/21/2010 12:01 PM, Dale wrote:
>    
>> Alex Schuster wrote:
>>      
>>> Dale writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> I don't use genkernel anymore.  I just roll my own. That way, I know
>>>> what is in there and what is not.  Then if something doesn't work, I
>>>> know if it is the kernel or something else.  With genkernel, you won't
>>>> have a clue what it is since you don't know much if anything about the
>>>> kernel and how it is configured.
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> That's not necessarily true. When I create a new kernel, I copy
>>> /usr/src/linux/.config into the new kernel directory, make oldconfig and
>>> menuconfig just as I like my kernel to be, and recreate the linux symlink
>>> to the new kernel directory. Then I do a genkernel --install --lvm --luks
>>> all&&   emerge -a @module-rebuild, and am done.
>>> I never noticed genkernel changing anything in my configuration, .config,
>>> /proc/config.gz and the stuff in /etc/kernels/ are identical. Until not
>>> long ago, I did not even know that genkernel was intended to create a
>>> working kernel from scratch.
>>>
>>>      Wonko
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>> I always do mine this way.  I copy the .config from the old kernel to
>> the new kernel, run make oldconfig then afterwards make all&&  make
>> modules_install and then copy the kernel to /boot with my own numbering
>> system.  That way I know which version and series the kernel is.  After
>> that, edit grub with the new kernel and I'm done.  I have only had that
>> fail once in the past six years or so and the kernel made some serious
>> changes and I had to start from scratch that one time.   They moved
>> things around and oldconfig couldn't reorganize things on the new kernel.
>>
>> Point being, genkernal causes issues for people and they don't know how
>> to fix it because they expect genkernel to do everything.  Problem with
>> that is that usually when someone has a kernel problem, they use
>> genkernel.  If they do their own, it just works.  Now someone new to
>> building a kernel may need some help but apparently genkernel needs some
>> help anyway.  May as well learn how to roll your own.  This is Gentoo
>> after all.
>>      
> The only thing that genkernel would add is your initrd. The kernel is
> exactly the same, whether you compile it with "make" or through
> "genkernel". Do a test and you'll see. (I'm assuming we're both talking
> about gentoo-sources, not vanilla-sources. Either way, they'd be the
> same.) Some might be confused about what happens in the steps if they
> haven't been down the "kernel compilation trail" more than once or
> twice, but for folks who just want to compile their kernel and plop it
> into place, along with a hands-off initrd, it's rather handy.
>
>    

But only if it works.  When I compile my kernel, I KNOW for sure what is 
in there.  When genkernel does one, especially on a new install, I have 
no idea what is in it or what is not.  If something goes wrong, I don't 
know where to start.  Is it a kernel problem or is it something else?  
Who knows.  Then you have to go back and start from the bottom, usually 
the kernel, and work your way back up to find out what is broken.

Genkernel may work for you but that doesn't mean it does for everyone 
else.  Should I mention hal here?  When someone comes for help, your 
looking for the failure not the successes.  If it was sucessful, they 
wouldn't need help.

Dale

:-)  :-)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-21 20:23                       ` Dale
@ 2010-06-21 22:00                         ` Bill Longman
  2010-06-21 22:37                           ` Dale
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Bill Longman @ 2010-06-21 22:00 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 06/21/2010 01:23 PM, Dale wrote:
>> The only thing that genkernel would add is your initrd. The kernel is
>> exactly the same, whether you compile it with "make" or through
>> "genkernel". Do a test and you'll see. (I'm assuming we're both talking
>> about gentoo-sources, not vanilla-sources. Either way, they'd be the
>> same.) Some might be confused about what happens in the steps if they
>> haven't been down the "kernel compilation trail" more than once or
>> twice, but for folks who just want to compile their kernel and plop it
>> into place, along with a hands-off initrd, it's rather handy.
>>
>>    
> 
> But only if it works.  When I compile my kernel, I KNOW for sure what is
> in there.  When genkernel does one, especially on a new install, I have
> no idea what is in it or what is not.  If something goes wrong, I don't
> know where to start.  Is it a kernel problem or is it something else? 
> Who knows.  Then you have to go back and start from the bottom, usually
> the kernel, and work your way back up to find out what is broken.

By "But only if it works," I assume the antecedent "it" refers to is a
kernel that we're attempting to boot correctly. (In other words, you're
not talking about genkernel failing to create a kernel for you. Is that
correct?)

If someone has trouble on an initial install, then that just means they
didn't configure the kernel correctly, is what I interpret that to mean.
The result of "make" and the result of "genkernel kernel" are exactly
the same. If your "make menuconfig" creates an invalid .config file for
you, no sort of magic is going to make its resultant kernel valid. Do
you mean to say that you just grab a kernel, jump into the directory and
say "make" without an mrproper and some sort of config? You do realize
that genkernel has --menuconfig, --xconfig and --gconfig exactly for
this purpose, don't you?

What sort of things do you believe genkernel is adding to your kernel?
If you use "genkernel --menuconfig --no-install kernel", you can look
and see what it did. It's no different than running "make menuconfig"
followed by a "make; make modules". Just look in /usr/share/genkernel at
the gen_compile.sh and you'll see that it does a make.

> Genkernel may work for you but that doesn't mean it does for everyone
> else.  Should I mention hal here?  When someone comes for help, your
> looking for the failure not the successes.  If it was sucessful, they
> wouldn't need help.

Which is why I mentioned genkernel in the first place. Most times a hang
after boot is due to components that were missed in the kernel build --
from where? -- from a missing or incorrectly created initrd if the
required modules weren't compiled into the kernel. The easiest way that
I've seen is to use genkernel and get back to work. Then later on you
can find out what an initrd is and why it's needed with modules but at
least you'd have a running system.

No, I don't think you should mention hal because it's probably OT for a
thread about a hung boot. But you should apply to yourself a similar
logic you ask of me: if others can use genkernel successfully, why can't I?

Bill



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-21 22:00                         ` Bill Longman
@ 2010-06-21 22:37                           ` Dale
  2010-06-22  0:45                             ` [gentoo-user] " walt
  2010-06-22 20:31                             ` [gentoo-user] " Bill Longman
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Dale @ 2010-06-21 22:37 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

Bill Longman wrote:
> On 06/21/2010 01:23 PM, Dale wrote:
>    
>>> The only thing that genkernel would add is your initrd. The kernel is
>>> exactly the same, whether you compile it with "make" or through
>>> "genkernel". Do a test and you'll see. (I'm assuming we're both talking
>>> about gentoo-sources, not vanilla-sources. Either way, they'd be the
>>> same.) Some might be confused about what happens in the steps if they
>>> haven't been down the "kernel compilation trail" more than once or
>>> twice, but for folks who just want to compile their kernel and plop it
>>> into place, along with a hands-off initrd, it's rather handy.
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>> But only if it works.  When I compile my kernel, I KNOW for sure what is
>> in there.  When genkernel does one, especially on a new install, I have
>> no idea what is in it or what is not.  If something goes wrong, I don't
>> know where to start.  Is it a kernel problem or is it something else?
>> Who knows.  Then you have to go back and start from the bottom, usually
>> the kernel, and work your way back up to find out what is broken.
>>      
> By "But only if it works," I assume the antecedent "it" refers to is a
> kernel that we're attempting to boot correctly. (In other words, you're
> not talking about genkernel failing to create a kernel for you. Is that
> correct?)
>
> If someone has trouble on an initial install, then that just means they
> didn't configure the kernel correctly, is what I interpret that to mean.
> The result of "make" and the result of "genkernel kernel" are exactly
> the same. If your "make menuconfig" creates an invalid .config file for
> you, no sort of magic is going to make its resultant kernel valid. Do
> you mean to say that you just grab a kernel, jump into the directory and
> say "make" without an mrproper and some sort of config? You do realize
> that genkernel has --menuconfig, --xconfig and --gconfig exactly for
> this purpose, don't you?
>
> What sort of things do you believe genkernel is adding to your kernel?
> If you use "genkernel --menuconfig --no-install kernel", you can look
> and see what it did. It's no different than running "make menuconfig"
> followed by a "make; make modules". Just look in /usr/share/genkernel at
> the gen_compile.sh and you'll see that it does a make.
>
>    
>> Genkernel may work for you but that doesn't mean it does for everyone
>> else.  Should I mention hal here?  When someone comes for help, your
>> looking for the failure not the successes.  If it was sucessful, they
>> wouldn't need help.
>>      
> Which is why I mentioned genkernel in the first place. Most times a hang
> after boot is due to components that were missed in the kernel build --
> from where? -- from a missing or incorrectly created initrd if the
> required modules weren't compiled into the kernel. The easiest way that
> I've seen is to use genkernel and get back to work. Then later on you
> can find out what an initrd is and why it's needed with modules but at
> least you'd have a running system.
>
> No, I don't think you should mention hal because it's probably OT for a
> thread about a hung boot. But you should apply to yourself a similar
> logic you ask of me: if others can use genkernel successfully, why can't I?
>
> Bill
>
>    

I'm not saying you can't use it just that it doesn't always work.  Thing 
is, when someone uses genkernel to make the kernel, when someone asks 
'did you include some driver', the usual answer is 'I don't know, I used 
genkernel' and then nobody knows whether it is there or not.  If a 
person builds their own kernel, they usually know if it is there and 
better yet how to check and make sure it is there.   Also, I don't use 
initrd and not sure why most people need one.  I don't use modules 
either, hence the reason I don't need initrd.  Just build in the drivers 
and such that are needed to boot until the modules are loaded and that's 
it.  It's not rocket science.  Driver controller, file system that root 
uses and that's about it.

I haven't used genkernel in a while.  I have just seen where people have 
used it and it not work.  Same as hal.  It works for most but when it 
doesn't, no one can figure out why because few people know how the thing 
works and even fewer can figure out the config file.   That's not quite 
as off topic as it appears.

If you want to use genkernel, go for it.  I just know this, when someone 
asks for help that may be kernel related and they use genkernel, there 
is very very little help I can provide.  Some people here use genkernel 
but there are a lot that don't.  There is another thread posted a day or 
so ago where they used genkernel, no one has been able to help them 
yet.  Not one reply that I have seen.  I want to help but with 
genkernel, I have no idea where to start.  I'm sure it is a kernel issue 
but that's about it.  It appears that on one else can help either.  It's 
not like this is a small mailing list with few people on it.

It's your choice.  Use whatever makes you happy and gets you where you 
want to go.

Dale

:-)  :-)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* [gentoo-user] Re: Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-21 22:37                           ` Dale
@ 2010-06-22  0:45                             ` walt
  2010-06-22  1:50                               ` Dale
  2010-06-22 20:31                             ` [gentoo-user] " Bill Longman
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: walt @ 2010-06-22  0:45 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 06/21/2010 03:37 PM, Dale wrote:

> I don't use initrd and not sure why most people need one...

Good point, and I'd like to know why, too.  AFAIK the major use of initrd
is on installation CD's, where the maker of the install disk has no way of
knowing in advance what hardware/filesystems the "installee" is using, and
thus must be ready for any surprise.

If this point of view is misguided or incomplete, please hit me with the
cluestick, asap :)

(BTW, hal is never off-topic for Dale. Don't ask why, it's ancient history
now, just like hal.  I don't think Dale is ancient history, though, quite
yet, well, almost ;)





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-22  0:45                             ` [gentoo-user] " walt
@ 2010-06-22  1:50                               ` Dale
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Dale @ 2010-06-22  1:50 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

walt wrote:
> On 06/21/2010 03:37 PM, Dale wrote:
>
>> I don't use initrd and not sure why most people need one...
>
> Good point, and I'd like to know why, too.  AFAIK the major use of initrd
> is on installation CD's, where the maker of the install disk has no 
> way of
> knowing in advance what hardware/filesystems the "installee" is using, 
> and
> thus must be ready for any surprise.
>
> If this point of view is misguided or incomplete, please hit me with the
> cluestick, asap :)
>
> (BTW, hal is never off-topic for Dale. Don't ask why, it's ancient 
> history
> now, just like hal.  I don't think Dale is ancient history, though, quite
> yet, well, almost ;)
>
>

It used to be that if you used lvm or something, you needed a initrd.  
I'm not sure that is the case now.  I think I read somewhere that you 
can use lvm and not use initrd since there is something in the kernel 
for that now.  I have not seen that in the kernel tho so I may have been 
confusing that with something else.  It does happen sometimes.  Me being 
confused that is.  lol

Thing about genkernel, when a person needs help with a kernel issue, it 
limits the number of people that can help with the problem.  Most people 
on here can help with kernel issues if the user compiled their own.  
With genkernel, you don't really know what you are getting.  I have even 
read where people used genkernel and got two different kernels on the 
same machine.  They should be pretty much the same since the hardware is 
the same.  Heck, I rarely change anything when I run make oldconfig.  It 
is more of saying no to stuff I don't have than yes.

Hal is much like anything else, it "just works" for most people but 
others have "issues".  I had serious issues with hal.  It seemed nothing 
I did would get it to work.  Funny thing is, it works with everything 
except xorg.  Hal works great and always has for everything else.  That 
is one reason I have also told folks doing a fresh install to try it 
with hal.  It works with most people and if it doesn't, everyone knows 
how to get rid of it.  You can't exactly get rid of a kernel now can 
we?  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-21 22:37                           ` Dale
  2010-06-22  0:45                             ` [gentoo-user] " walt
@ 2010-06-22 20:31                             ` Bill Longman
  2010-06-23  2:29                               ` Dale
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Bill Longman @ 2010-06-22 20:31 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 06/21/2010 03:37 PM, Dale wrote:
> I'm not saying you can't use it just that it doesn't always work.  Thing
> is, when someone uses genkernel to make the kernel, when someone asks
> 'did you include some driver', the usual answer is 'I don't know, I used
> genkernel' and then nobody knows whether it is there or not.  If a
> person builds their own kernel, they usually know if it is there and
> better yet how to check and make sure it is there.   Also, I don't use
> initrd and not sure why most people need one.  I don't use modules
> either, hence the reason I don't need initrd.  Just build in the drivers
> and such that are needed to boot until the modules are loaded and that's
> it.  It's not rocket science.  Driver controller, file system that root
> uses and that's about it.

And all I'm trying to point out is that you're making a leap of
incorrect logic by ascribing to genkernel characteristics that it
doesn't have. The root cause is that they've misconfigured something, so
the red herring of "I blah blah blah genkernel blah blah blah" shouldn't
set off alarms.

I've been using it for years and it's always worked for me. Very few
times I have seen it crash while trying to build, but never have I seen
it do anything untoward or unexpected. Maybe part of the issue is that
users might rely on it without supplying enough arguments to it. I had
to write my script because I was getting carpal tunnel from typing out
the stupid command so many times. That said, I *always* use the
--kerneldir argument, so that might explain some things. By default, it
just uses /usr/src/linux, even if you're in some other directory, and if
you're not aware of that, yeah, I can see how you could bite off your
own toes pretty easily and not even notice.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-22 20:31                             ` [gentoo-user] " Bill Longman
@ 2010-06-23  2:29                               ` Dale
  2010-06-23  9:36                                 ` Peter Humphrey
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Dale @ 2010-06-23  2:29 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

Bill Longman wrote:
> On 06/21/2010 03:37 PM, Dale wrote:
>    
>> I'm not saying you can't use it just that it doesn't always work.  Thing
>> is, when someone uses genkernel to make the kernel, when someone asks
>> 'did you include some driver', the usual answer is 'I don't know, I used
>> genkernel' and then nobody knows whether it is there or not.  If a
>> person builds their own kernel, they usually know if it is there and
>> better yet how to check and make sure it is there.   Also, I don't use
>> initrd and not sure why most people need one.  I don't use modules
>> either, hence the reason I don't need initrd.  Just build in the drivers
>> and such that are needed to boot until the modules are loaded and that's
>> it.  It's not rocket science.  Driver controller, file system that root
>> uses and that's about it.
>>      
> And all I'm trying to point out is that you're making a leap of
> incorrect logic by ascribing to genkernel characteristics that it
> doesn't have. The root cause is that they've misconfigured something, so
> the red herring of "I blah blah blah genkernel blah blah blah" shouldn't
> set off alarms.
>
> I've been using it for years and it's always worked for me. Very few
> times I have seen it crash while trying to build, but never have I seen
> it do anything untoward or unexpected. Maybe part of the issue is that
> users might rely on it without supplying enough arguments to it. I had
> to write my script because I was getting carpal tunnel from typing out
> the stupid command so many times. That said, I *always* use the
> --kerneldir argument, so that might explain some things. By default, it
> just uses /usr/src/linux, even if you're in some other directory, and if
> you're not aware of that, yeah, I can see how you could bite off your
> own toes pretty easily and not even notice.
>
>    

Things is, I have seen genkernel fail for lots of people.  I have never 
had my way to fail.  I may forget a option or have to add a option when 
adding hardware but I have never had make && make modules_install fail.  
The copy process always works too.  It's not a leap from my point of 
view.  Maybe you are just lucky so far.  Some people use genkernel and 
it works but a lot have problems with it too.

Funny thing is,  when a person comes for help and genkernel is being 
used, not much help is offered.  The other thread I mentioned earlier is 
getting help but not with genkernel.  We are helping him with building 
his own tho and figuring out the options.  This sort of reminds me of 
cdrkit and cdrtools.  You can use cdrkit of you want.  Thing is, you 
won't get much help with it because it is buggy and just doesn't work 
with some hardware.  You can use it tho.  It's still your choice.

By all means, use genkernel.

Dale

:-)  :-)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-23  2:29                               ` Dale
@ 2010-06-23  9:36                                 ` Peter Humphrey
  2010-06-26 17:31                                   ` James Wall
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Peter Humphrey @ 2010-06-23  9:36 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Wednesday 23 June 2010 03:29:16 Dale wrote:

> By all means, use genkernel.

I will, RSN. This nearly new, shiny, quad-core box is as sluggish as 
hell, and I want to find out why. So I'll use genkernel to install 
everything under the sun and see if I can work it out.

-- 
Rgds
Peter.          Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-23  9:36                                 ` Peter Humphrey
@ 2010-06-26 17:31                                   ` James Wall
  2010-06-27  9:50                                     ` Peter Humphrey
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: James Wall @ 2010-06-26 17:31 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 6/23/2010 4:36 AM, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 June 2010 03:29:16 Dale wrote:
>
>> By all means, use genkernel.
>
> I will, RSN. This nearly new, shiny, quad-core box is as sluggish as
> hell, and I want to find out why. So I'll use genkernel to install
> everything under the sun and see if I can work it out.
>
You could also check out Pappy's Kernel Seeds at 
http://www.kernel-seeds.org.org/



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-26 17:31                                   ` James Wall
@ 2010-06-27  9:50                                     ` Peter Humphrey
  2010-07-16 23:17                                       ` Peter Humphrey
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 26+ messages in thread
From: Peter Humphrey @ 2010-06-27  9:50 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Saturday 26 June 2010 18:31:05 James Wall wrote:

> You could also check out Pappy's Kernel Seeds at
> http://www.kernel-seeds.org.org/

I will - thanks.

-- 
Rgds
Peter.          Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error
  2010-06-27  9:50                                     ` Peter Humphrey
@ 2010-07-16 23:17                                       ` Peter Humphrey
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 26+ messages in thread
From: Peter Humphrey @ 2010-07-16 23:17 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Sunday 27 June 2010 10:50:55 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Saturday 26 June 2010 18:31:05 James Wall wrote:
> > You could also check out Pappy's Kernel Seeds at
> > http://www.kernel-seeds.org.org/
> 
> I will - thanks.

Turned out it was much simpler than kernel config - it was BOINC. Now all 
I have to do is to find more suitable parameters for it on a 4-core box.

-- 
Rgds
Peter.          Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 26+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2010-07-16 23:18 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 26+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2010-06-16 23:05 [gentoo-user] Boot hangs after install, no error Jake Moe
2010-06-17  0:48 ` [gentoo-user] " walt
2010-06-17  1:02   ` Alex Schuster
2010-06-17  1:09     ` Jake Moe
2010-06-17 10:38 ` [gentoo-user] " Roger Mason
2010-06-18  3:54   ` Jake Moe
2010-06-18  4:05     ` Albert Hopkins
2010-06-18  4:26       ` Jake Moe
2010-06-18 10:20         ` Albert Hopkins
2010-06-19  1:40           ` Dale
2010-06-21 14:32             ` Bill Longman
2010-06-21 18:03               ` Dale
2010-06-21 18:26                 ` Alex Schuster
2010-06-21 19:01                   ` Dale
2010-06-21 20:01                     ` Bill Longman
2010-06-21 20:23                       ` Dale
2010-06-21 22:00                         ` Bill Longman
2010-06-21 22:37                           ` Dale
2010-06-22  0:45                             ` [gentoo-user] " walt
2010-06-22  1:50                               ` Dale
2010-06-22 20:31                             ` [gentoo-user] " Bill Longman
2010-06-23  2:29                               ` Dale
2010-06-23  9:36                                 ` Peter Humphrey
2010-06-26 17:31                                   ` James Wall
2010-06-27  9:50                                     ` Peter Humphrey
2010-07-16 23:17                                       ` Peter Humphrey

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox