From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NtpMb-0000ZX-97 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:40:45 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A5888E0801; Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:40:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-fx0-f210.google.com (mail-fx0-f210.google.com [209.85.220.210]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6645CE0801 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:40:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxm2 with SMTP id 2so1533832fxm.26 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:40:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:subject:date :user-agent:cc:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id; bh=G+vtct6B3mGSSZo+hpdw/kUaD9Q2LXLiiZZl6eVgXtM=; b=OFZKwsYV5yINkNfzWwg+EL5QytdCjcb1ioSUyXlqTdMR2EPgUfW0DJ8oYzxycJl890 gz9R7rUTO1p7uE6NWWwiMf0c+lC4eAoTO30W7i+2oV1kt4xbCxVkGvfTqia90eayDxWK y/gDqj3vLYBH0w03rCgooZ5qAl3ocRbzmRvXU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:subject:date:user-agent:cc:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; b=rpLU/ESS9v2AEU9RJe4YbnH69Z94qoR2KMtwHrJLCFJZDj8Nsyc7vN5FBQv+BXraP8 knTyZoAMDT7ue1MZYjDs3CYU2/4qGMGlf8uouNDzpz/HngEz+F3H4cZYvIAx1pX3bxBu pkAu9TxHUvJ9dapfgId8VWXevnnlxiD3WZQI8= Received: by 10.204.152.152 with SMTP id g24mr4858125bkw.205.1269294000579; Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nazgul.localnet (196-215-2-122.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.215.2.122]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l1sm21174894bkl.14.2010.03.22.14.39.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:39:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: help Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:36:59 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.1 (Linux/2.6.33-zen1; KDE/4.4.1; x86_64; ; ) Cc: KH References: <201003201803.12902.info@i-vartai.lt> <201003221917.54950.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> <4BA7C336.1000103@konstantinhansen.de> In-Reply-To: <4BA7C336.1000103@konstantinhansen.de> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201003222336.59294.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> X-Archives-Salt: a3165796-ec92-43ab-acc2-aa6cad555fba X-Archives-Hash: fd92cb02f0c4f7710ec62616aa69871d On Monday 22 March 2010 21:21:26 KH wrote: > Am 22.03.2010 20:17, schrieb Mick: > > TBH, I wouldn't pay money for it but as many OEM impose a MSWindows tax > > on all of us I had no other option if I wanted to buy this particular > > laptop. > > You can refuse the license agreement and give windows back. If you are > lucky, the vendor will give you some money back. > > kh Yeah right, good luck with that. Three people in my entire country are known to have gotten that right, 2 from Toshiba. In all three cases, the hardware vendor refunded the cost as a PR exercise. Microsoft are dead sneaky about this one, at least under ZA law. The hardware vendor accepted the license to install it (remember it's on OEM install not a box set), and you buy the hardware knowing full well that it comes with Windows. That's part of the deal and there is no deal on the table where the machine does not have Windows. There is nothing unfair about this. No vendor has a *duty* so sell you what you want and they cannot be forced to. Microsoft does not enforce that vendors sell Windows-only machines (and they proved as such to the relevant Commission). Vendors almost uniformly virtually every model with Windows, the exceptions are low grade machines the no sane person would buy today, and servers). This is not even anti-competitive, the vendor can sell what they like and can offer only a certain OS of they choose. Much like a Toyota dealer is perfectly free to sell only Toyotas and cannot be forced to offer Hondas as well. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com