From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Nnnx6-0005yn-Gc for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 06 Mar 2010 06:57:32 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 473BEE06FE; Sat, 6 Mar 2010 06:56:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-bw0-f211.google.com (mail-bw0-f211.google.com [209.85.218.211]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9EB5E06FE for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2010 06:56:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so931738bwz.29 for ; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 22:56:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:subject:date :user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id; bh=SwWG+GNeFlHWke4roGWsGoiNGSJHrlzPWj5yAtPqDgE=; b=M7a4R9FASqcQ058w2+Xl8vT8b+O8LwTh7x5iLSGhKTRU1wrOqNIWkGHORhVa9tPJ9M 39MlKdcHHekIZ8hft056Y/D9o+DIu+9uzhfoBPCCWvcnjribM3Bn/cUVZ7sWTcmsin8a vQT1Bf1SoOuv+t6B/wkVx1ZOwbpd5qsphhbaY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; b=AIXgX8wZ7neuG+ODjX2bPLnufrGvHdC3qt5RyAVOcCTsFZx3oya+xoPwkzhmofM194 5gXOiI2gQSmBweGPEoGiHS1ngjKErRw42WtakrF2huLd0hbmre68l6a/IsGl4nS+vzVQ LIqlKvIrx4KDn/OxnUqoRrhP3gK03tb/IROw0= Received: by 10.204.36.70 with SMTP id s6mr1197950bkd.22.1267858584217; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 22:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from nazgul.localnet (196-210-238-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.210.238.8]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g18sm4779401bkw.7.2010.03.05.22.56.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 05 Mar 2010 22:56:23 -0800 (PST) From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple Update Issues - what order should things be done? Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 08:53:46 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.1 (Linux/2.6.32-zen6; KDE/4.4.1; x86_64; ; ) References: <4B9156ED.1050407@libertytrek.org> <201003052120.01622.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> <4B91941E.4020906@libertytrek.org> In-Reply-To: <4B91941E.4020906@libertytrek.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <201003060853.46649.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> X-Archives-Salt: 7414ada6-e343-4bc4-afa1-f1c3b090531e X-Archives-Hash: 5983ddfe0417625ed7fd4101032f8d15 On Saturday 06 March 2010 01:30:38 Tanstaafl wrote: > On 3/5/2010 2:20 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > On Friday 05 March 2010 21:09:33 Tanstaafl wrote: > >> I had already installed gcc-4.3.4 a while back, but still haven't > >> switched to it, so currently everything is compiled with 4.1.2. > >=20 > > Then switch to 4.3.4 >=20 > Very helpful - not. I don't know if it is safe having userspace lvm2 > tools compiled with a newer/different version of gcc than the kernel > (which has lvm2 compiled in). Maybe someone here knows - and maybe > that's why I asked. user space tools do not interact with kernel internals. They interact throu= gh=20 an API which is very stable.It's the internal kernel stuff that is unstable. As a comparison, login does not care what syslogger you use or it's version= ,=20 so you can change them at will. I have used lvm2 on multiple machine over m= any=20 years with multiple versions and multiple compilers. Never had a compatibil= ity=20 issue. This is as it should be and the behaviour I expect. > >> So, what should I do first? Will the new version of lvm2 work ok > >> with the older kernel? > >=20 > > Dunno, what does the ebuild say? >=20 > I'm a user, not a programmer. I looked in an ebuild once - it was > interesting, but didn't tell me a whole lot. I also have been bitten > more than once by major changes to a package that came in a minor > version bump that wasn't documented in the ebuild or anywhere else, so > I've learned to be careful, especially where critical system updates are > concerned (like lvm2, gcc and the kernel). >=20 > My question was directed toward people who use lvm2 and (hopefully) know > the answer... googling didn't reveal an answer (or at least I didn't > find the proper incantation)... >=20 > So, again, does anyone know if the new version of lvm2 (with integrated > device-mapper) will work ok on the 2.6.23 kernel, or is there a minimum > version required? Again, this is in the ebuild. You can ignore most of the weird details and= =20 look for important stuff. Dependencies are in DEPEND, and in the case of th= e=20 latest lvm2, the only important limits are: !!sys-fs/device-mapper >=3Dsys-apps/util-linux-2.16 lvm now does device-mapper itself, so you must unmerge device-mapper and me= rge=20 lvm2. These are userspace tools so it's safe, you won't lose data or=20 functionality as long as you don't reboot in the middle. util-linux is pretty normal too, this will be upgraded when you upgrade lvm. If the gentoo maintainer knows about incompatibilities, they often put it i= n=20 an elog in the ebuild, which displays when the ebuild runs. That doesn't he= lp=20 you now, you want to know this before the ebuild runs, not after, so look i= n=20 the ebuild for elog statements. Easily recognisable - large hunks of plain= =20 text. The only messages there concern baselayout2 - see the end > >> If so I could switch to gcc-4.3.4, fix/update lvm2, then rebuild > >> world, then update the kernel later once the boss is ok with it? > >=20 > > Just update the kernel and be done with it. This is the thing to do > > first and you already know that. So just do it. >=20 > Ever heard of a PHB? >=20 > I don't upgrade the kernel very often, nor have to fix blockers > manually, so I'd rather ask a few questions (admitting I don't know > everything - or even much of anything - in the process - try it Alan, > it's actually quite liberating), and not dig myself into a hole I may > not be able to dig myself out of easily. >=20 > >> Also - when you switch compilers, do you need to reboot right away > >> (after rebuilding world (and thus the kernel)? > >=20 > > What does rebooting have to do with the compiler? The compiler only > > builds code then stops. Rebooting does nothing to it. >=20 > What does your question have to do with mine? Look, I appreciate any > help I can get here, but try reading the question you're responding to > if you're going to take the time to respond (you missed the stuff in > parenthesis)... You were talking about switching compilers then rebooting. There's no=20 requirement for a reboot in that step. Once you have successfully updated the box and it's kernel, then reboot it = to=20 load the new kernel, but you can do that step whenever you are ready. You mention a PHB. PHB's don't like updates/upgrades - they imagine all kinds of dragons lurki= ng=20 inside chips which eat babies etc etc etc. The way out of this is to make t= he=20 problem his problem. Pretty fair, as he caused it. You get a spare machine and set it up just like the one you plan to update,= =20 and run tests on that. Make all your mistakes on a test box so they don;t=20 happen on a live box. The PHB now has two choices: 1. Not pay for a machine and suffer the consequences if things bork 2. Provide a machine and have proven data to hand to use when authorizing t= he=20 update All kinds of emotional crap interferes with this process, but it is manifes= tly=20 impossible to get the benefits of both choices. It is impossible in the sam= e=20 way that apples do not fall up. Worded correctly, the PHB can be brought to= an=20 understanding that is he wants certainty, then he must finance it. If he is= =20 impressed with buzzwords, this is "best practice" and "prod/dev environment= s". =46rom what you describe, I recommend you make this pitch first. If it is n= ot=20 approved and it goes south it is certainly not your fault anymore. >=20 > On 3/5/2010 3:40 PM, Sebastian Be=C3=9Fler wrote: > > As far as I read the post from Tanstaafl the question is not if he > > has to restart after the switch to the new compiler but if he has to > > restart after the rebuild of world with the new compiler, because he > > also rebuilds the kernel. >=20 > Exactly - thank you Sebastian... >=20 > > My experience is that you don't need to restart right away after a > > kernel rebuild as long as you don't want to (re)load modules because > > that would not do 'cause kernel and modules must both be build with > > the same compiler to work. >=20 > Interesting - I don't use modules on a server, I only build with with > what I need compiled in... so no modules/module support at all, but > that's good to know if I ever decide to use Gentoo on the desktop - thank= s. >=20 > > But to be sure it is possible to postpone the kernel rebuild to be > > near of a time where a restart can be done. >=20 > Yes, that I was planning on doing when I got approval to upgrade the > kernel, but I figured I'd include the kernel version out of concern for > the newer version of lvm2... >=20 > I was already leaning toward the kernel upgrade first as being the > safest solution (then fix lvm2, then switch compilers, update everything > else, then rebuild world), but I have to justify it to the boss, which > is why I asked in the first place... I suspect your kernel/compiler/lvm upgrad will be smooth and trouble-free. = If=20 the box is old, and you have to switch to openrc/baselayout2, that's where= =20 your troubles are going to happen. This is a deep change that touches many= =20 things with lots of configs being updated and things moving around.=20 What version of those packages are you running, and what do you plan to=20 upgrade to, if at all? =2D-=20 alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com