[gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Kevin O'Gorman]

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I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from any
of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple desktops.
I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
toolchains or in a browser.

The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from running
out of disk space.  A little research showed that an odd-sounding thing
called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some dotfiles.  It turns out
to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got a lot of space here and
there, but my /home partition was never near full before.

I'd like to just nuke nepomuk, but fear the consequences.  I'm seriously
entertaining ideas about a more efficient way to run my Gentoo system,
although I'll probably keep kdelibs because I like a few of their games.
Similarly for gnome.  But I wonder what I should do about the rest.

Ideas?

-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from
> any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
> desktops. I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and
> documentation toolchains or in a browser.
> 
> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from running
> out of disk space.  A little research showed that an odd-sounding thing
> called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some dotfiles.  It turns out
> to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got a lot of space here and
> there, but my /home partition was never near full before.
> 
> I'd like to just nuke nepomuk, but fear the consequences.  I'm seriously
> entertaining ideas about a more efficient way to run my Gentoo system,
> although I'll probably keep kdelibs because I like a few of their games.
> Similarly for gnome.  But I wonder what I should do about the rest.
> 
> Ideas?

just deactivate it.

But one thing surprises me - I have 400gb of data in /home. And nepomuk just 
needs 600mb...

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Kevin O'Gorman]

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On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann <
volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> > I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> > important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> > I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from
> > any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
> > desktops. I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and
> > documentation toolchains or in a browser.
> >
> > The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
> running
> > out of disk space.  A little research showed that an odd-sounding thing
> > called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some dotfiles.  It turns
> out
> > to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got a lot of space here and
> > there, but my /home partition was never near full before.
> >
> > I'd like to just nuke nepomuk, but fear the consequences.  I'm seriously
> > entertaining ideas about a more efficient way to run my Gentoo system,
> > although I'll probably keep kdelibs because I like a few of their games.
> > Similarly for gnome.  But I wonder what I should do about the rest.
> >
> > Ideas?
>
> just deactivate it.
>
> But one thing surprises me - I have 400gb of data in /home. And nepomuk
> just
> needs 600mb...
>
> Okay, but I don't really know what it is, let alone how to deactivate it.
I'll search around.

Thanks.


-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[ubiquitous1980]

Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
> <volkerarmin@googlemail.com <mailto:volkerarmin@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>     > I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>     > important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
>     > I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I
>     need from
>     > any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
>     > desktops. I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and
>     > documentation toolchains or in a browser.
>     >
>     > The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me
>     from running
>     > out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
>     odd-sounding thing
>     > called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some dotfiles.
>      It turns out
>     > to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got a lot of space
>     here and
>     > there, but my /home partition was never near full before.
>     >
>     > I'd like to just nuke nepomuk, but fear the consequences.  I'm
>     seriously
>     > entertaining ideas about a more efficient way to run my Gentoo
>     system,
>     > although I'll probably keep kdelibs because I like a few of
>     their games.
>     > Similarly for gnome.  But I wonder what I should do about the rest.
>     >
>     > Ideas?
>
>     just deactivate it.
>
>     But one thing surprises me - I have 400gb of data in /home. And
>     nepomuk just
>     needs 600mb...
>
> Okay, but I don't really know what it is, let alone how to deactivate
> it.  I'll search around.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> -- 
> Kevin O'Gorman, PhD
>
Kevin

To deactivate it:

System Settings >  Desktop Search > [De-select] Enable Nepomuk Semantic
Desktop

In my case, on the same page, I disabled Strigi also.

Damien Sticklen

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Kevin O'Gorman]

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On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:41 PM, ubiquitous1980 <nixuser1980@gmail.com>wrote:

> Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
> > <volkerarmin@googlemail.com <mailto:volkerarmin@googlemail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> >     > I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> >     > important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> >     > I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I
> >     need from
> >     > any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for
> multiple
> >     > desktops. I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and
> >     > documentation toolchains or in a browser.
> >     >
> >     > The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me
> >     from running
> >     > out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
> >     odd-sounding thing
> >     > called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some dotfiles.
> >      It turns out
> >     > to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got a lot of space
> >     here and
> >     > there, but my /home partition was never near full before.
> >     >
> >     > I'd like to just nuke nepomuk, but fear the consequences.  I'm
> >     seriously
> >     > entertaining ideas about a more efficient way to run my Gentoo
> >     system,
> >     > although I'll probably keep kdelibs because I like a few of
> >     their games.
> >     > Similarly for gnome.  But I wonder what I should do about the rest.
> >     >
> >     > Ideas?
> >
> >     just deactivate it.
> >
> >     But one thing surprises me - I have 400gb of data in /home. And
> >     nepomuk just
> >     needs 600mb...
> >
> > Okay, but I don't really know what it is, let alone how to deactivate
> > it.  I'll search around.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kevin O'Gorman, PhD
> >
> Kevin
>
> To deactivate it:
>
> System Settings >  Desktop Search > [De-select] Enable Nepomuk Semantic
> Desktop
>
> In my case, on the same page, I disabled Strigi also.
>
> Damien Sticklen
>
> Thanks.  My having research work with a few hundred thousand small files
and a couple of terrabytes of storage and backups could account for the
size.  Some occasional sluggishness too.  It makes no sense to index any of
this, so ditching it feels good.

For anyone else in the same boat, I would amend the instructions thus:

System Settings >  Advanced > Desktop Search > [De-select] Enable Nepomuk
Semantic
Desktop

Again, thanks.

-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

Volker Armin Hemmann writes:

> On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:

> > The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
> > running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
> > odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in
> > some dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is. 
> > I've got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was
> > never near full before.
> > 
> > I'd like to just nuke nepomuk, but fear the consequences.  I'm
> > seriously entertaining ideas about a more efficient way to run my
> > Gentoo system, although I'll probably keep kdelibs because I like a
> > few of their games. Similarly for gnome.  But I wonder what I should
> > do about the rest.
> > 
> > Ideas?
> 
> just deactivate it.
> 
> But one thing surprises me - I have 400gb of data in /home. And nepomuk
> just needs 600mb...

I had similar problems with KDE 4.2. And I wonder why strigi keeps 
indexing some of my files every time log into KDE, which I am sure were 
not changed in the meantime. But I do not notice this much, because Amarok 
creates much more disk I/O before it crashes every time I log in. Then I 
restart it, it scans for a while, and works then. Maybe I'll downgrade, or 
I'll wait for an update, I got so used to Amarok I do not want to change.

That's my experience with KDE4. It's really nice, has cool features and is 
getting better and better, but it's always many things which do not run 
correctly. With every KDE update, some are fixed, and other problems 
appear.

Problems that I had with 4.2 and still have with 4.4:

- Session saving sometimes does not work
- Kmail complains about running two times when started at login by a saved 
session
- I get dialogs about crashed konqueror sessions I can restore
- kthumbnail thumbnails my files over and over again, two days ago I had a 
load of 400
- Amarok: crashes, ogg file corruption, wrong playlists, sloow response 
(sometimes I miss the first 1-2 seconds)
- many bundled plasmoids seem to be buggy
- Krunner is very nice, if only it would not crash so often or hang for 
seconds, so that using the K menu is easier. Once I had to remove its 
config file because it would not start at all.
- My additional Konqueror profiles do not appear in the file menu. I can 
enable them, they are lost at next login.
- Under load the panel does not react well, clicks onto another desktop 
take > 10 seconds to happen sometimes. Switching via hotkey is still fast.
- This KMail window has spell checking which is nice to have. But when I 
open the spell checking dialog in order to add words to the dictionary, I 
always have to start at the very beginning and reply to all problems until 
I get to the word I want it to learn. Oh, and it even has problems with 
numbers like 4.2. This looks to me like the typical example of a nice 
idea, but it's implemented so badly I just do not use it.

And so on. But it's not so bad I cannot work with it (well, sometimes it 
is, and then I have to fix it, like when the password dialog no longer 
accepted passwords), and so I keep using it, waiting it to become really 
stable and usable.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Peter Humphrey]

On Thursday 25 February 2010 00:10:18 Alex Schuster wrote:

> This KMail window has spell checking which is nice to have. But when I
> open the spell checking dialog in order to add words to the
> dictionary, I always have to start at the very beginning and reply to
> all problems until I get to the word I want it to learn.

You might like instead to try right-clicking on the word you want it to 
learn. Sorry if eggs meet grandmothers here.

> Oh, and it even has problems with numbers like 4.2. This looks to me
> like the typical example of a nice idea, but it's implemented so badly
> I just do not use it.

I don't have any of these problems with kmail. It really is a first-rate 
program.

-- 
Rgds
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

Peter Humphrey writes:

> On Thursday 25 February 2010 00:10:18 Alex Schuster wrote:
> > This KMail window has spell checking which is nice to have. But when
> > I open the spell checking dialog in order to add words to the
> > dictionary, I always have to start at the very beginning and reply to
> > all problems until I get to the word I want it to learn.
> 
> You might like instead to try right-clicking on the word you want it to
> learn. Sorry if eggs meet grandmothers here.

Nice! Did not see this as it only works if the word is not highlighted.

> > Oh, and it even has problems with numbers like 4.2. This looks to me
> > like the typical example of a nice idea, but it's implemented so
> > badly I just do not use it.
> 
> I don't have any of these problems with kmail. It really is a
> first-rate program.

I like it, too, I'm using it for years now even if it crashed daily in 
3.5. 
Kmail was just an example, the spell checking probably works the same in 
all KDE applications. And this is not a big problem at all, it's more of a 
symptom of KDE4 things being not so well-tested yet.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

Alex Schuster wrote:

[KDE4 problems]
> And so on. But it's not so bad I cannot work with it (well, sometimes
> it is, and then I have to fix it, like when the password dialog no
> longer accepted passwords), and so I keep using it, waiting it to
> become really stable and usable.

And another weekend of KDE4 trouble. I rebooted after some upgrades, along 
those were Qt and MySQL. Now, plasma-desktop crashed, also when restarting 
it on the command line. So again I renamed the .kde4 directory and got one 
from my last backup. The desktop came up, but kmail failed, due to akonadi 
not finding its database. I thought it had to do with the mysql update so 
I masked that one and tried to build an older version, but it did not 
build. Now I see this was not the old version I had running, but something 
in between.
Anyway, the problem was another one, I had to rebuild qt-sql.
I had some Qt blockers during the last @world update that the newest 
portage did not resolve, so I did an emerge -1av $( qlist -I qt- ) - after 
this, @world was updateable. Maybe this emerge -1 stuff was the problem, I 
have no idea.

Then I wanted my last session back, as I had changed some things since the 
last backup and I also wanted my konqueror sessions - no idea where those 
are stored. So again I took the .kde directory (A) which was not working 
and the one from the last backup (B), and moved files from B to A until A 
was working again. And did so until I found which exact file was 
responsible for plasma-desktop not running (it was share/config/plasma-
desktop-appletsrc).

I had to reboot many times, because when KDE4 was running and plasma 
crashed, I had no way to log out adn had to restart the X server. And when 
switching to a text console and back to the newly started X server, I get 
an empty display on all consoles, probably due to the fglrx drivers. I 
know that already, but as I did not got any other drivers to run, I am 
stuck with ati-drivers. At least I have desktop effects and stuff running.

You can lose a lot of time with this. And I am wondering if KDE4 is the 
right thing for me. On the one hand, I like it very much. And it is 
getting better and better. I just discovered that I can tab windows, this 
is soo cool.
On the other hand, from time to time I have show-stoppers, and then I 
cannot use kmail, or no KDE4 at all. And have to invest time to solve 
this. And there are these annoying things. Like Amarok being very 
unstable, and taking 5 minutes to start. What the heck is it doing in this 
time? And KDE4 is slow. That maybe another problem, something seems to be 
wrong here, I'd expect the system to be faster, and not make any pauses 
when emerge is running (niced to 19 and also ioniced). I do not want to 
wait for seconds when switching desktops (sometimes its fast, sometimes 
not).

Sorry for the whining,

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 01 March 2010 18:08:05 Alex Schuster wrote:
> On the other hand, from time to time I have show-stoppers, and then I 
> cannot use kmail, or no KDE4 at all. And have to invest time to solve 
> this. And there are these annoying things. Like Amarok being very 
> unstable, and taking 5 minutes to start. What the heck is it doing in this 
> time?

Fuck knows what amarok-2x does for the first 5 minutes. I *think* On my system 
it scans the music directory, presumably to find updates that happened when 
amarok was not running. Fair enough, can't argue that, but why is it so 
*slow*???

Fuck also knows what the amarok devs are doing in general. I still can't find 
a way to move stuff to an mp3 player like the old 1.4 version did. And the 
library thingamagij still doesn't always update tags, or put tag changes that 
it itself did into it's own database. It gladly accepts any changes you make 
in the Edit Tags dialog, and tries to write them, even if it knows it cannot 
do it (no support for that format, permissions, etc). Then, no warning or 
message about this. Depending on which bleeding edge latest-svn commit build 
you happen to get on any given day, this last might or might not tell you 
something in the status bar.

For all the above reasons, and more, I have switched to clementine (it's in 
portage). It's a Qt port of amarok-1.4 and has equivalents of all the music-
playing goodness that amarok used to have. It doesn't do tags, external 
players, wikipedia etc etc, it just plays music. And you have to tag your 
music by other means with eg kid3. I can live with that. At least it starts 
and stays up.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Dale]

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:
> On Monday 01 March 2010 18:08:05 Alex Schuster wrote:
>    
>> On the other hand, from time to time I have show-stoppers, and then I
>> cannot use kmail, or no KDE4 at all. And have to invest time to solve
>> this. And there are these annoying things. Like Amarok being very
>> unstable, and taking 5 minutes to start. What the heck is it doing in this
>> time?
>>      
> Fuck knows what amarok-2x does for the first 5 minutes. I *think* On my system
> it scans the music directory, presumably to find updates that happened when
> amarok was not running. Fair enough, can't argue that, but why is it so
> *slow*???
>
> Fuck also knows what the amarok devs are doing in general. I still can't find
> a way to move stuff to an mp3 player like the old 1.4 version did. And the
> library thingamagij still doesn't always update tags, or put tag changes that
> it itself did into it's own database. It gladly accepts any changes you make
> in the Edit Tags dialog, and tries to write them, even if it knows it cannot
> do it (no support for that format, permissions, etc). Then, no warning or
> message about this. Depending on which bleeding edge latest-svn commit build
> you happen to get on any given day, this last might or might not tell you
> something in the status bar.
>
> For all the above reasons, and more, I have switched to clementine (it's in
> portage). It's a Qt port of amarok-1.4 and has equivalents of all the music-
> playing goodness that amarok used to have. It doesn't do tags, external
> players, wikipedia etc etc, it just plays music. And you have to tag your
> music by other means with eg kid3. I can live with that. At least it starts
> and stays up.
>
>    

And to think I have been in KDE 4 for almost a week now.  Maybe this is 
to soon to remove KDE 3?

My pet peeve so far is the background slide show.  Every time I log in, 
try to change a setting for the background, or sneeze the wrong way, it 
starts looking for the new images, even tho there may not be any.  I 
have a huge amount of them and it takes almost 2 minutes to "rebuild" 
whatever it is building.  While it is doing that, it won't do anything 
else.

I'm hoping this will change sometime soon.  Oh, I also don't like that 
the images are random.  Most of my images are done as a slide show.  
Having them in random order sort of defeats the point.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 01 March 2010 21:07:18 Dale wrote:
> And to think I have been in KDE 4 for almost a week now.  Maybe this is 
> to soon to remove KDE 3?

To be fair, amarok is not part of KDE-4, it's a third party add-on to the KDE 
framework. Not much the KDE devs can do about that except encourage the Amarok 
devs to ship quality tested code.

Sort of like AdBlock - if it were poor quality it would not be a correct 
reflection on Mozilla as a whole



> 
> My pet peeve so far is the background slide show.  Every time I log in, 
> try to change a setting for the background, or sneeze the wrong way, it 
> starts looking for the new images, even tho there may not be any.  I 
> have a huge amount of them and it takes almost 2 minutes to "rebuild" 
> whatever it is building.  While it is doing that, it won't do anything 
> else.
> 
> I'm hoping this will change sometime soon.  Oh, I also don't like that 
> the images are random.  Most of my images are done as a slide show.  
> Having them in random order sort of defeats the point.

My pet peeve is Desktop. I have two monitors at work and use two X screens. 
KDE wants to create a Desktop and a Desktop-1 directory. I want it to just use 
the same set of files for both - background, icons, plasma widgets must be the 
same on both monitors, but actual app windows running there independent. This 
seems perfectly reasonable to me - e17 does it out the box - but thus far I 
have not found the magic voodoo spell that makes it happen.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Dale]

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:
> On Monday 01 March 2010 21:07:18 Dale wrote:
>    
>> And to think I have been in KDE 4 for almost a week now.  Maybe this is
>> to soon to remove KDE 3?
>>      
> To be fair, amarok is not part of KDE-4, it's a third party add-on to the KDE
> framework. Not much the KDE devs can do about that except encourage the Amarok
> devs to ship quality tested code.
>
> Sort of like AdBlock - if it were poor quality it would not be a correct
> reflection on Mozilla as a whole
>
>    

This is true I guess.  It is getting there but I still have to work 
around problems.  It's still missing things but it is getting more usable.

>    
>> My pet peeve so far is the background slide show.  Every time I log in,
>> try to change a setting for the background, or sneeze the wrong way, it
>> starts looking for the new images, even tho there may not be any.  I
>> have a huge amount of them and it takes almost 2 minutes to "rebuild"
>> whatever it is building.  While it is doing that, it won't do anything
>> else.
>>
>> I'm hoping this will change sometime soon.  Oh, I also don't like that
>> the images are random.  Most of my images are done as a slide show.
>> Having them in random order sort of defeats the point.
>>      
> My pet peeve is Desktop. I have two monitors at work and use two X screens.
> KDE wants to create a Desktop and a Desktop-1 directory. I want it to just use
> the same set of files for both - background, icons, plasma widgets must be the
> same on both monitors, but actual app windows running there independent. This
> seems perfectly reasonable to me - e17 does it out the box - but thus far I
> have not found the magic voodoo spell that makes it happen.
>
>    

I still have a single CRT monitor.  The LCDs are getting cheaper tho.  
Maybe they will fix or add the needed code for you to be able to do what 
you want before to long.  I'm not sure when the next set of updates are 
coming out.

I never could get the kde layman to work right so I gave up on it.  The 
kde-sunset works fine tho.  Weird.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Mick]

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On Monday 01 March 2010 19:22:29 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Monday 01 March 2010 21:07:18 Dale wrote:
> > And to think I have been in KDE 4 for almost a week now.  Maybe this is
> > to soon to remove KDE 3?
> 
> To be fair, amarok is not part of KDE-4, it's a third party add-on to the
>  KDE framework. Not much the KDE devs can do about that except encourage
>  the Amarok devs to ship quality tested code.
> 
> Sort of like AdBlock - if it were poor quality it would not be a correct
> reflection on Mozilla as a whole
> 
> > My pet peeve so far is the background slide show.  Every time I log in,
> > try to change a setting for the background, or sneeze the wrong way, it
> > starts looking for the new images, even tho there may not be any.  I
> > have a huge amount of them and it takes almost 2 minutes to "rebuild"
> > whatever it is building.  While it is doing that, it won't do anything
> > else.
> >
> > I'm hoping this will change sometime soon.  Oh, I also don't like that
> > the images are random.  Most of my images are done as a slide show.
> > Having them in random order sort of defeats the point.
> 
> My pet peeve is Desktop. I have two monitors at work and use two X screens.
> KDE wants to create a Desktop and a Desktop-1 directory. I want it to just
>  use the same set of files for both - background, icons, plasma widgets
>  must be the same on both monitors, but actual app windows running there
>  independent. This seems perfectly reasonable to me - e17 does it out the
>  box - but thus far I have not found the magic voodoo spell that makes it
>  happen.

How does e17 compare in terms of resources to other WMs/DEs like *box, LXDE, 
xface, these days?  I had a look at it when it was all the rage back when, but 
it looked too Gnomey to me at the time and I couldn't find a reason for 
preferring it over say fluxbox.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 01 March 2010 22:28:42 Mick wrote:
> > My pet peeve is Desktop. I have two monitors at work and use two X
> > screens. KDE wants to create a Desktop and a Desktop-1 directory. I want
> > it to just
> >
> >  use the same set of files for both - background, icons, plasma widgets
> >  must be the same on both monitors, but actual app windows running there
> >  independent. This seems perfectly reasonable to me - e17 does it out the
> >  box - but thus far I have not found the magic voodoo spell that makes it
> >  happen.
> 
> How does e17 compare in terms of resources to other WMs/DEs like *box,
> LXDE,  xface, these days?  I had a look at it when it was all the rage
> back when, but it looked too Gnomey to me at the time and I couldn't find
> a reason for preferring it over say fluxbox.

As of right now, I really couldn't say. About 6 months ago the e17 devs 
started ramping up for a release that was supposed to happen round about last 
xmas. Then Samsung and a French manufacturer of set-top boxes got in on the 
action, as a result the code changes faster than Paris Hilton changes her 
knickers. It stopped reliably building from one hour to the next ... :-)

So I switched to KDE to get some stability and haven't tried again since.

e17 has to be evaluated on it's own merits, like all other software. it's not 
"like" anything ... except perhaps e17 itself. It's claims to fame are 
twofold:

1. Themeability. If you have every written a KDE or Gnome theme engine you 
will know what a serious ball-ache it is. Code mixed in with specs mixed in 
with image files.... e17 does it a different way with .edj files. You write an 
.edc spec file in a declarative style (as in you say *what* you want, not 
*how* it is done - that's the engine's job to figure that out) and supply your 
images to be used on the widgets. Then run it through a mini-compiler to 
produce an .edj, tell the wm to use it and voila! theme applied. It's not just 
a simple "replace all those .pngs with these .pngs" to get a different set of 
colours - you change the entire look and feel of the desktop and the engine 
just knows what to do with it.

2. Configurability. Everything that can possibly be changeable is so, 
including stuff that really shouldn't be :-) It makes KDE look minimalist. 
Fortunately, a lot of the advanced stuff can be hidden in the config dialog 
which improves things.

Resources - it's hard to write a wm these days that isn't a resource hog in 
some ways. If you want transparency and composition, be prepared to sell some 
cpu to get it. Having said that, e17 runs blindingly fast on ARM mobile 
devices when configured appropriately. It's nowhere near as minimalist as 
*box, those wm's are in a class where if they suit your needs, then nothing 
else will come close, especially not e17 which is designed to showcase graphic 
effects to a large degree. *box is the polar opposite of that

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Mick]

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On Monday 01 March 2010 21:17:23 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Monday 01 March 2010 22:28:42 Mick wrote:
> > > My pet peeve is Desktop. I have two monitors at work and use two X
> > > screens. KDE wants to create a Desktop and a Desktop-1 directory. I
> > > want it to just
> > >
> > >  use the same set of files for both - background, icons, plasma widgets
> > >  must be the same on both monitors, but actual app windows running
> > > there independent. This seems perfectly reasonable to me - e17 does it
> > > out the box - but thus far I have not found the magic voodoo spell that
> > > makes it happen.
> >
> > How does e17 compare in terms of resources to other WMs/DEs like *box,
> > LXDE,  xface, these days?  I had a look at it when it was all the rage
> > back when, but it looked too Gnomey to me at the time and I couldn't find
> > a reason for preferring it over say fluxbox.
> 
> As of right now, I really couldn't say. About 6 months ago the e17 devs
> started ramping up for a release that was supposed to happen round about
>  last xmas. Then Samsung and a French manufacturer of set-top boxes got in
>  on the action, as a result the code changes faster than Paris Hilton
>  changes her knickers. It stopped reliably building from one hour to the
>  next ... :-)
> 
> So I switched to KDE to get some stability and haven't tried again since.
> 
> e17 has to be evaluated on it's own merits, like all other software. it's
>  not "like" anything ... except perhaps e17 itself. It's claims to fame are
>  twofold:
> 
> 1. Themeability. If you have every written a KDE or Gnome theme engine you
> will know what a serious ball-ache it is. Code mixed in with specs mixed in
> with image files.... e17 does it a different way with .edj files. You write
>  an .edc spec file in a declarative style (as in you say *what* you want,
>  not *how* it is done - that's the engine's job to figure that out) and
>  supply your images to be used on the widgets. Then run it through a
>  mini-compiler to produce an .edj, tell the wm to use it and voila! theme
>  applied. It's not just a simple "replace all those .pngs with these .pngs"
>  to get a different set of colours - you change the entire look and feel of
>  the desktop and the engine just knows what to do with it.
> 
> 2. Configurability. Everything that can possibly be changeable is so,
> including stuff that really shouldn't be :-) It makes KDE look minimalist.
> Fortunately, a lot of the advanced stuff can be hidden in the config dialog
> which improves things.
> 
> Resources - it's hard to write a wm these days that isn't a resource hog in
> some ways. If you want transparency and composition, be prepared to sell
>  some cpu to get it. Having said that, e17 runs blindingly fast on ARM
>  mobile devices when configured appropriately. It's nowhere near as
>  minimalist as *box, those wm's are in a class where if they suit your
>  needs, then nothing else will come close, especially not e17 which is
>  designed to showcase graphic effects to a large degree. *box is the polar
>  opposite of that

Thanks Alan, your insight in this is much appreciated.  I've been trying 
different things and keep coming back to fluxbox.  Having spent time some 
years ago to set it up just-as-I-want-it in terms of the menu with all my 
apps, as well as the windows behaviour and decoration, I find that I am trying 
to change other WMs to behave like fluxbox! Ha! I am a creature of 
(minimalist) habit I guess.  I'll probably have another pop at e17 and see 
what gives.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 02 March 2010 01:17:06 Mick wrote:
> Thanks Alan, your insight in this is much appreciated.  I've been trying 
> different things and keep coming back to fluxbox.  Having spent time some 
> years ago to set it up just-as-I-want-it in terms of the menu with all my 
> apps, as well as the windows behaviour and decoration, I find that I am
> trying  to change other WMs to behave like fluxbox! Ha! I am a creature of
> (minimalist) habit I guess.  I'll probably have another pop at e17 and see
> what gives.

I feel your pain :-)

I feel the same way about Gentoo - I've used just about everything else under 
the sun for the work server, but on my personal machines (and the many tinker-
toys in the lab at work) I keep coming back to Gentoo. And I keep trying to 
rebuild packages on Centos with the support I want, not what the dev thinks I 
want. 

USE truly does spoil a sysadmin ;-)


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Paul Hartman]

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> My pet peeve is Desktop. I have two monitors at work and use two X screens.
> KDE wants to create a Desktop and a Desktop-1 directory. I want it to just use
> the same set of files for both - background, icons, plasma widgets must be the
> same on both monitors, but actual app windows running there independent. This
> seems perfectly reasonable to me - e17 does it out the box - but thus far I
> have not found the magic voodoo spell that makes it happen.

Can you symlink Desktop-1 to Desktop? ( I only have 1 monitor and have
never tried this... so forgive me if it's a stupid idea)

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 03 March 2010 17:48:39 Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> 
wrote:
> > My pet peeve is Desktop. I have two monitors at work and use two X
> > screens. KDE wants to create a Desktop and a Desktop-1 directory. I want
> > it to just use the same set of files for both - background, icons,
> > plasma widgets must be the same on both monitors, but actual app windows
> > running there independent. This seems perfectly reasonable to me - e17
> > does it out the box - but thus far I have not found the magic voodoo
> > spell that makes it happen.
> 
> Can you symlink Desktop-1 to Desktop? ( I only have 1 monitor and have
> never tried this... so forgive me if it's a stupid idea)

Dunno, I'm too scared to try :-)

I remember the devastation that occurred the last time I deleted 
Desktop-1.....


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

Alan McKinnon writes:

> On Monday 01 March 2010 18:08:05 Alex Schuster wrote:
> > On the other hand, from time to time I have show-stoppers, and then I
> > cannot use kmail, or no KDE4 at all. And have to invest time to solve
> > this. And there are these annoying things. Like Amarok being very
> > unstable, and taking 5 minutes to start. What the heck is it doing in
> > this time?
> 
> Fuck knows what amarok-2x does for the first 5 minutes. I *think* On my
> system it scans the music directory, presumably to find updates that
> happened when amarok was not running. Fair enough, can't argue that,
> but why is it so *slow*???

Yes, it scans the collection, I just verified that by removing a folder 
from my collection. Start-up takes 7 minutes, I guess this also slows down 
my KDE4 start-up even further (strigi also scans some stuff for about a 
minute, along this music files I did not touch in any way). So when I save 
my KDE session I have to remember to quit amarok before that. Of course, I 
also have to remember to start amarok some time after I logged in, so I 
can play music when I want without having to wait 7 minutes first.

This does not feel right...

BTW, a find /data/mp3 -type d takes about a minute. Checking the date of 
the directories to verify they did not alter since the last scan should 
not take that much longer.

Ah, I see the problem. It mainly scans /data/mp3/incoming, a directory I 
have NOT selected as collection folder (but most other directories in 
/data/mp3 are selected). Still, those files do not show up in my 
collection, which is fine - some time ago amarok did index all in 
/data/mp3, even if a directory was not selected.


> Fuck also knows what the amarok devs are doing in general. I still
> can't find a way to move stuff to an mp3 player like the old 1.4
> version did. And the library thingamagij still doesn't always update
> tags, or put tag changes that it itself did into it's own database. It
> gladly accepts any changes you make in the Edit Tags dialog, and tries
> to write them, even if it knows it cannot do it (no support for that
> format, permissions, etc). Then, no warning or message about this.

Ah, this looks familiar, I ran into this, too.

> Depending on which bleeding edge latest-svn commit build you happen to
> get on any given day, this last might or might not tell you something
> in the status bar.

I'm always using the newest version that is not hard-masked. with every 
new version, some things get better, but others get worse. This delays and 
startup times are new to me, but on the other hand I did not get any file 
corruption for a long time.
I do not like the new toolbar though. Where are the stop, forward and back 
buttons? And for the volume control I have to move the mouse in a circle 
around it... or use the scroll wheel, okay. Nah, I liked it better the way 
it was before.


> For all the above reasons, and more, I have switched to clementine
> (it's in portage). It's a Qt port of amarok-1.4 and has equivalents of
> all the music- playing goodness that amarok used to have. It doesn't
> do tags, external players, wikipedia etc etc, it just plays music. And
> you have to tag your music by other means with eg kid3. I can live
> with that. At least it starts and stays up.

Nice! But not for me. I like the wikipedia stuff. And tagging, now that it 
seems to work. And what amarok is supposed to become. Yes, I like it much 
better than the old amarok, it's just that things do not already work 
fine. So I will keep suffering, until some day amarok will not do all the 
annoying stuff it currently does. The day will come! Hopefully long before 
they start coding amarok-3 and all gets worse again. I'll just have to 
wait. And wait.

Thanks anyway for the tip, at least I can use clementine when I see that 
amarok is not running yet and did not do its 7 minutes of scanning 
already.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 03 March 2010 13:27:45 Alex Schuster wrote:
> > On Monday 01 March 2010 18:08:05 Alex Schuster wrote:
> > > On the other hand, from time to time I have show-stoppers, and then I
> > > cannot use kmail, or no KDE4 at all. And have to invest time to solve
> > > this. And there are these annoying things. Like Amarok being very
> > > unstable, and taking 5 minutes to start. What the heck is it doing in
> > > this time?
> >
> > 
> >
> > Fuck knows what amarok-2x does for the first 5 minutes. I think On my
> > system it scans the music directory, presumably to find updates that
> > happened when amarok was not running. Fair enough, can't argue that,
> > but why is it so *slow*???
> 
> Yes, it scans the collection, I just verified that by removing a folder 
> from my collection. Start-up takes 7 minutes, I guess this also slows down 
> my KDE4 start-up even further (strigi also scans some stuff for about a 
> minute, along this music files I did not touch in any way). So when I save 
> my KDE session I have to remember to quit amarok before that. Of course, I 
> also have to remember to start amarok some time after I logged in, so I 
> can play music when I want without having to wait 7 minutes first.
> 
> This does not feel right...
> 
> BTW, a find /data/mp3 -type d takes about a minute. Checking the date of 
> the directories to verify they did not alter since the last scan should 
> not take that much longer.
> 
> Ah, I see the problem. It mainly scans /data/mp3/incoming, a directory I 
> have NOT selected as collection folder (but most other directories in 
> /data/mp3 are selected). Still, those files do not show up in my 
> collection, which is fine - some time ago amarok did index all in 
> /data/mp3, even if a directory was not selected.

I wonder if amarok would not be better off using the strigi/nepomuk indexing 
function, instead of trying to be real clever and doing it itself.

OTOH, that might just resurrect the mother of all threads we had recently - 
the one about the pros and cons of nepomuk and semantic-desktop :-)



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[stosss]

> I wonder if amarok would not be better off using the strigi/nepomuk indexing
> function, instead of trying to be real clever and doing it itself.

I think Amarok uses MySQL.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 03 March 2010 19:30:56 stosss wrote:
> > I wonder if amarok would not be better off using the strigi/nepomuk
> > indexing function, instead of trying to be real clever and doing it
> > itself.
> 
> I think Amarok uses MySQL.

Amarok definitely uses MySQL, but that's the storage function, we are talking 
about the search function. 

It uses MySQL in the most brain-dead way anyone ever heard of, a way that no-
one in their right mind would consider even half-way sane.

It *requires* you to jump through interminable loops at build-time because it 
wants, wait for it, shared embedded libraries. I mean, wtf? That's not 
something MySQL was built to do. It's like having sex to preserve virginity

Then, to top it all, the Qt db libs get used wrongly too, causing the db to 
... not work.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Paul Hartman]

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wonder if amarok would not be better off using the strigi/nepomuk indexing
> function, instead of trying to be real clever and doing it itself.

AFAIK it is on the Amarok to-do list now that the speed is good enough
to replace mysql, but nobody has volunteered to take on the challenge
yet.

I think there's also the potential problem of users who don't install
or enable the indexing/semantic-desktop stuff might not be able to use
Amarok then...

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 03 March 2010 19:32:57 Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> 
wrote:
> > I wonder if amarok would not be better off using the strigi/nepomuk
> > indexing function, instead of trying to be real clever and doing it
> > itself.
> 
> AFAIK it is on the Amarok to-do list now that the speed is good enough
> to replace mysql, but nobody has volunteered to take on the challenge
> yet.
> 
> I think there's also the potential problem of users who don't install
> or enable the indexing/semantic-desktop stuff might not be able to use
> Amarok then...

It could be a build-time option, giving the user a choice


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

Alan McKinnon writes:

> On Wednesday 03 March 2010 13:27:45 Alex Schuster wrote:

[RANT RANT RANT]

> > Ah, I see the problem. It mainly scans /data/mp3/incoming, a
> > directory I have NOT selected as collection folder (but most other
> > directories in /data/mp3 are selected). Still, those files do not
> > show up in my collection, which is fine - some time ago amarok did
> > index all in /data/mp3, even if a directory was not selected.

I investigated this further. Amarok seems to look for all playlists below 
/data/mp3, and then looks up all of their files. No idea why.

> I wonder if amarok would not be better off using the strigi/nepomuk
> indexing function, instead of trying to be real clever and doing it
> itself.

Strigi also keeps indexing parts of my /data/mp3 stuff with EVERY login.

> OTOH, that might just resurrect the mother of all threads we had
> recently - the one about the pros and cons of nepomuk and
> semantic-desktop :-)

I am pro, I like it, but again it seems those things are not yet working 
right. Strigi indexes stuff over and over again at every login. virtuoso-t 
then also runs for a while and hogs resources. dbus-daemon uses 10-15 
percent of CPU time according to top. Should it do this?

I enabled auto-login for KDE, so when I boot the system, at least things 
are already indexed when I start working with it.

Now I'm going to emerge KDE-4.4.1, let's see what this will change.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

Alex Schuster writes:

> Now I'm going to emerge KDE-4.4.1, let's see what this will change.

Nothing I notice. At least things have not gone worse:)

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

Alex Schuster wrote:

> Alex Schuster writes:
> > Now I'm going to emerge KDE-4.4.1, let's see what this will change.
> 
> Nothing I notice. At least things have not gone worse:)

But still they are not well. But you can safely ignore this if you don't 
have KDE4 or are not interested in reading how things do not work, and how 
I still use them. I have no good explanation for this, probably I keep 
using KDE4 because it is so new and shiny, because I think that the time 
must come when things actually DO work, and because I so not like to 
switch to something else. There was never a time when ALL was working 
fine, but at the moment I am even more disappointed then I used to be.

- Kontact. The old address book I had imported fro KDE 3.5 half a year ago 
showed one "address book" and many std.vcf (or similar) files, with my 
data scattered on them. I moved all stuff into the "address book", and did 
not use it for a while
Now I wanted to do so, but it did not run due to an error with akonadi. I 
tried to figure out what this was, and how to get the error message in 
English, but then I found out that I only have to restart kontact. Fine, 
now I want to add a contact. First, when I want to edit the location, the 
country is set to Afghanistan, I always have to change this to Germany. 
Annoying, why is this so, who would want this behaviour, except for 
Afghans perhaps. But it does not matter much, as I cannot store the data: 
when I press the OK button, I get a dialog where I should select the 
address book to store the data in, but the list is empty. Great. I tried 
adding a new address book, now I have two entries called "address book" 
and one called "personal contacts", still I cannot add an entry.

- Yesterday I tried the demo version of 'World Of Goo', a really nice 
game. it runs in fullscreen, after ending it my panel was invisible, but 
still working. At least turning the composite stuff off makes it visible. 
I tried to switch the resolution with Ctrl-Alt-+/-, and indeed this made 
the panel come back, but I could not switch the resolution back as it was 
before. Before trying xrandr I hought I'd just start another session with 
another window manager (via the K menu), and indeed I got the KDM screen, 
but only because KDE had crashed. At the next login, I had to rearrange my 
plasmoids because they were shiftwed to the left, probably due to the 
lower resolution I had. Or something like that, as switching the 
resolution should not change the virtual resolution. But in this case, I 
could not scroll around to see the whole desktop. Well, whatever, I do not 
dare to try this again.

- Dolphin can do FTP, but I have to repeat the login process several times 
until I see the destination files.

- I just tried to listen to a CD, but KsCD does not find it. The eject 
button ejects, but does not close the tray if pressed again. Okay. I just  
thought I could play CDs with KDE. Can you?

- And I am currently editing a page in my wiki with konqueror, but after 
the dialog appeared that I should save the edits, it sort of hangs. I can 
reload the page, but cannot edit any more. The good thing is that I did 
not edit that much yet. Which is also a bad thing, because when editing 
longer parts I cop the text to the clipboard from time to time, just in 
case something crashes. I'm doing this with this mail, too.
Hmm, looks like konqueror is still working just as usual, it's just it 
does no display updates at all. It's the first time it happened, but as it 
just happened while I was writing this rant, I thought I'd include it.

- Of course, Amarok keeps doing weird things. At least I can play music 
from my collection. But playing a stream sometimes crashes it. And 
dragging files into Amarok always leads to a crash. Yeah, I know, Amarok 
is not KDE.

But at least one bug was fixed, I got a mail from bugzilla about this 
today. It's the bug that makes password dialogs not work if the password 
is to be displayed as three bullets. Wow, nearly two months after it had 
been reported, this serious bug was at least confirmed to exist and is 
fixed now. Maybe this bug happens seldomly, but when it happens, much of 
KDE4 is unusable, as you have no kmail, no kwallet, nothing that needs a 
password works.

Dale, you brave, brave man, are you really using KDE4 now?

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Philip Webb]

100309 Alex Schuster wrote some time ago:
> Now I'm going to emerge KDE-4.4.1, let's see what this will change.
& today:
> But still they are not well.

I see  1  improvement &  2  regressions so far;
NB I don't use the desktop (that's Fluxbox), only some apps.

Konsole has lost its 'fixed GNU' font, which now calls up something nasty
(yes, I know there's an entry in the list, but it's a different font).
I've switched to Xterm for Mutt & may junk Konsole for user terminal too.

Gwenview shows a lot of silly little pictures plastered all over folders
& there seems to be no way of telling it not to.
Do I want a picture of Conrad Black in my big 'people' collection ? -- Yes.
Do I want to look at him every time I open Gwenview ? -- No !!

Gwenview has regained F2='rename', which it lost after KDE 3 , a plus.

Still no 'removed tiles' display in Kmahjongg,
so it's still KDE 3 for that & thank the gods for Gentoo making it easy.
Still no port of Ksokoban: apparently they can't decide what to name it.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

Philip Webb writes:

> I see  1  improvement &  2  regressions so far;
> NB I don't use the desktop (that's Fluxbox), only some apps.
> 
> Konsole has lost its 'fixed GNU' font, which now calls up something
> nasty (yes, I know there's an entry in the list, but it's a different
> font). I've switched to Xterm for Mutt & may junk Konsole for user
> terminal too.

I noticed this when I started KDE 4.4 for the first time. It looked quite 
different (and a little ugly), but somehow I got used to it. 

> Gwenview shows a lot of silly little pictures plastered all over
> folders & there seems to be no way of telling it not to.
> Do I want a picture of Conrad Black in my big 'people' collection ? --
> Yes. Do I want to look at him every time I open Gwenview ? -- No !!

Those four thumbnails on each folder icon? I actually like these :)

> Gwenview has regained F2='rename', which it lost after KDE 3 , a plus.

So at least sometimes things improve :)
I don't use gwenview much. When I used it a while ago, browsing through 
many photos, and rotating lots of them, it always crashed after a while, 
after it hogged very much of my memory. Just retried that, problem's gone. 
Hooray!

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Philip Webb]

100311 Alex Schuster wrote:
> Philip Webb writes:
>> Konsole has lost its 'fixed GNU' font, which now calls up something nasty
>> (yes, I know there's an entry in the list, but it's a different font).
>> I've switched to Xterm for Mutt & may junk Konsole for user terminal too.
> I noticed this when I started KDE 4.4 for the first time.
> It looked quite different & a bit ugly, but somehow I got used to it.

Further experience showed that Xterm's standard font doesn't do Unicode
& mouse-scroll doesn't work in Most etc, so I've gone back to Konsole
& settled on a tolerable font in 'fixed misc' at size 13 .

> I don't use gwenview much.  When I used it browsing many photos
> and rotating lots of them, it always crashed after a while, 
> after it hogged very much of my memory.
> Just retried that, problem's gone.  Hooray!

Yes, Gwenview has been quite useable for some time now
& the KDE 4 version is a bit of an improvement generally.
Useable alternatives are Thunar (icon view) & Feh (thumbnail view)
to browse around & Feh (image view) to look at the actual pictures.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Mick]

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On Friday 12 March 2010 01:59:19 Philip Webb wrote:

> Further experience showed that Xterm's standard font doesn't do Unicode
> & mouse-scroll doesn't work in Most etc, so I've gone back to Konsole
> & settled on a tolerable font in 'fixed misc' at size 13 .

I haven't been able to configure either xterm or aterm/rxvt to be able to 
scroll with the mouse inside less/most/man pages etc.  I think that this is a 
konsole feature only - please share if anyone has found a way of doing this in 
other than konsole terminals.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:59:19 -0500, Philip Webb wrote:

> Yes, Gwenview has been quite useable for some time now
> & the KDE 4 version is a bit of an improvement generally.
> Useable alternatives are Thunar (icon view) & Feh (thumbnail view)
> to browse around & Feh (image view) to look at the actual pictures.

I like gqview, but it's time to give Gewnview another try.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Is there another word for synonym?

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 4:19 AM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:59:19 -0500, Philip Webb wrote:
>
>> Yes, Gwenview has been quite useable for some time now
>> & the KDE 4 version is a bit of an improvement generally.
>> Useable alternatives are Thunar (icon view) & Feh (thumbnail view)
>> to browse around & Feh (image view) to look at the actual pictures.
>
> I like gqview, but it's time to give Gewnview another try.

gqview is obsolete, geeqie is the modern version under active development.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:32:04 -0600, Paul Hartman wrote:

> > I like gqview, but it's time to give Gewnview another try.  
> 
> gqview is obsolete, geeqie is the modern version under active
> development.

I hadn't realised gqview development had stopped, thanks for the pointer.
I like the way geeqie doesn't try to display both the JPEG and RAW
versions of the same photo.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I spilled Spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone.

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Dale]

Alex Schuster wrote:
> Dale, you brave, brave man, are you really using KDE4 now?
>
> 	Wonko
>
>    

I am in KDE4.  I still have KDE3 installed tho.  Thing is, I'm still 
using the same programs I was in KDE3.  Dolphin looks nice and all but I 
can't use it as root at all.  So, I went back to Konqueror to edit 
config files and such.  I don't use some of the programs that you are 
using so I don't have the same issues.  I use smplayer to do movies or 
CDs.  It doesn't care what DE you use.

I have to admit, I am sort of moving some things away from KDE.  The way 
KDE has done this change over has certainly left a bad taste in my 
mouth.  If they do KDE5 the same way, I will likely be switching to 
something else.  Heck, I may not be using KDE specific apps by then.  
Smplayer for example will run on any DE as far as I know.

I do like the looks of KDE4.  I still think they dropped KDE3 to soon.  
KDE4 will get there but it is still having issues many months after 
dropping KDE3.  Bad thing is, I don't think they care about the users 
they left hanging in the wind.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

Dale writes:

> Alex Schuster wrote:
> > Dale, you brave, brave man, are you really using KDE4 now?

> I am in KDE4.  I still have KDE3 installed tho.  Thing is, I'm still
> using the same programs I was in KDE3.  Dolphin looks nice and all but
> I can't use it as root at all.

Huh? No problem here.

OT: does anyone know about dolphin somehow accessing all files it shows? I 
see this on a system that uses dolphin to browse remote files via the fish 
protocol. Previews are not enabled, but all the files are accessed, which 
means it takes about one hour until the directory is shown, because all 
files are being retrieved from a SAM-FS server. Maybe it is reading the 
magic number for each file? I will try konqueror now.

> So, I went back to Konqueror to edit
> config files and such.  I don't use some of the programs that you are
> using so I don't have the same issues.  I use smplayer to do movies or
> CDs.  It doesn't care what DE you use.

Ah, smplayer. Did not think about that. It was not important anyway - I 
had ripped a CD with K3b, and wondered why two tracks were swapped. BTW, 
what do you use for ripping? K3b is okay, but it does not remember changes 
like output path or file naming, I have to set this again for every CD.
But smplayer does not recognise the CD either. I wonder why I do not have 
a /dev/cdrom device - only /dev/cdrom3, /dev/cdrw3, /dev/dvd3 and 
/dev/dvdrw3, all symlinking to /dev/sr0.


> I do like the looks of KDE4.  I still think they dropped KDE3 to soon.
> KDE4 will get there but it is still having issues many months after
> dropping KDE3.  Bad thing is, I don't think they care about the users
> they left hanging in the wind.

I also think KDE3 was dropped too soon. While KDE4 is usable now for most 
things, it still has too many bugs, and a while ago it had many many more, 
while development and bug fixing of KDE3 was already stopped.
On the other hand, manpower is limited, and I understand the decision to 
focus on the new project rather than doing stuff for the old one that soon 
noone will be using. KDE 3.5 is still there. I don't know about the 
security issues, would it be unsafe now to use KDE 3.5? I remember 
something about kpfd being masked due to security holes.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Dale]

Alex Schuster wrote:
> Dale writes:
>
>    
>> Alex Schuster wrote:
>>      
>>> Dale, you brave, brave man, are you really using KDE4 now?
>>>        
>    
>> I am in KDE4.  I still have KDE3 installed tho.  Thing is, I'm still
>> using the same programs I was in KDE3.  Dolphin looks nice and all but
>> I can't use it as root at all.
>>      
> Huh? No problem here.
>
> OT: does anyone know about dolphin somehow accessing all files it shows? I
> see this on a system that uses dolphin to browse remote files via the fish
> protocol. Previews are not enabled, but all the files are accessed, which
> means it takes about one hour until the directory is shown, because all
> files are being retrieved from a SAM-FS server. Maybe it is reading the
> magic number for each file? I will try konqueror now.
>
>    

This is what I am talking about.  Dolphin will browse through 
directories but as soon as I click to open a text file, it gives a 
error.  I have discussed this on the kde list and it is a known 
problem.  One even said the code was written to prevent that but others 
say it is just not fixed yet.  So, I still use Konqueror just like I did 
in KDE 3.


>> So, I went back to Konqueror to edit
>> config files and such.  I don't use some of the programs that you are
>> using so I don't have the same issues.  I use smplayer to do movies or
>> CDs.  It doesn't care what DE you use.
>>      
> Ah, smplayer. Did not think about that. It was not important anyway - I
> had ripped a CD with K3b, and wondered why two tracks were swapped. BTW,
> what do you use for ripping? K3b is okay, but it does not remember changes
> like output path or file naming, I have to set this again for every CD.
> But smplayer does not recognise the CD either. I wonder why I do not have
> a /dev/cdrom device - only /dev/cdrom3, /dev/cdrw3, /dev/dvd3 and
> /dev/dvdrw3, all symlinking to /dev/sr0.
>
>
>    

I have used tkdvd to burn a DVD.  It ain't pretty but it worked.  ;-)

>> I do like the looks of KDE4.  I still think they dropped KDE3 to soon.
>> KDE4 will get there but it is still having issues many months after
>> dropping KDE3.  Bad thing is, I don't think they care about the users
>> they left hanging in the wind.
>>      
> I also think KDE3 was dropped too soon. While KDE4 is usable now for most
> things, it still has too many bugs, and a while ago it had many many more,
> while development and bug fixing of KDE3 was already stopped.
> On the other hand, manpower is limited, and I understand the decision to
> focus on the new project rather than doing stuff for the old one that soon
> noone will be using. KDE 3.5 is still there. I don't know about the
> security issues, would it be unsafe now to use KDE 3.5? I remember
> something about kpfd being masked due to security holes.
>
> 	Wonko
>
>    

I understand the second hand but it still leaves the users out in the 
cold.  I'm hoping the release of KDE 5 will be handled better but I'm 
not holding my breath.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

Dale writes:

> Alex Schuster wrote:
> > Dale writes:

> >> I am in KDE4.  I still have KDE3 installed tho.  Thing is, I'm still
> >> using the same programs I was in KDE3.  Dolphin looks nice and all
> >> but I can't use it as root at all.
> > 
> > Huh? No problem here.
[...]
> This is what I am talking about.  Dolphin will browse through
> directories but as soon as I click to open a text file, it gives a
> error.  I have discussed this on the kde list and it is a known
> problem.  One even said the code was written to prevent that but others
> say it is just not fixed yet.  So, I still use Konqueror just like I
> did in KDE 3.

This is also working here, a click opens the file in kwrite.


> >> So, I went back to Konqueror to edit
> >> config files and such.  I don't use some of the programs that you
> >> are using so I don't have the same issues.  I use smplayer to do
> >> movies or CDs.  It doesn't care what DE you use.
> > 
> > Ah, smplayer. Did not think about that. It was not important anyway -
> > I had ripped a CD with K3b, and wondered why two tracks were
> > swapped. BTW, what do you use for ripping? K3b is okay, but it does
> > not remember changes like output path or file naming, I have to set
> > this again for every CD. But smplayer does not recognise the CD
> > either. I wonder why I do not have a /dev/cdrom device - only
> > /dev/cdrom3, /dev/cdrw3, /dev/dvd3 and /dev/dvdrw3, all symlinking
> > to /dev/sr0.
> 
> I have used tkdvd to burn a DVD.  It ain't pretty but it worked.  ;-)

Oh, K3b is fine for burning, never had a problem with that. It's the 
ripping that could be better, and the audio playing that does not work at 
all.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Mick]

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On Tuesday 09 March 2010 20:12:09 Alex Schuster wrote:
> Alex Schuster wrote:
> > Alex Schuster writes:
> > > Now I'm going to emerge KDE-4.4.1, let's see what this will change.
> >
> > Nothing I notice. At least things have not gone worse:)
> 
> But still they are not well. But you can safely ignore this if you don't
> have KDE4 or are not interested in reading how things do not work, and how
> I still use them. I have no good explanation for this, probably I keep
> using KDE4 because it is so new and shiny, because I think that the time
> must come when things actually DO work, and because I so not like to
> switch to something else. There was never a time when ALL was working
> fine, but at the moment I am even more disappointed then I used to be.
> 
> - Kontact. The old address book I had imported fro KDE 3.5 half a year ago
> showed one "address book" and many std.vcf (or similar) files, with my
> data scattered on them. I moved all stuff into the "address book", and did
> not use it for a while
> Now I wanted to do so, but it did not run due to an error with akonadi. 

Did you try to create a local resource using your systemsettings and point it 
to the local KDE3.5 contacts file?  If you restart the address book, then 
akonadi will kick in a carry out the migration - if it does not succeed it 
will tell you so.  In that case you may need to fix things manually (I've 
posted how in an older thread of mine, where I managed to make akonadi to 
succeed in its migration from a local resource file using sqlite - I don't 
have mysql in this box.  Let me know if you can't find it.)

> I
> tried to figure out what this was, and how to get the error message in
> English, but then I found out that I only have to restart kontact. Fine,
> now I want to add a contact. First, when I want to edit the location, the
> country is set to Afghanistan, I always have to change this to Germany.
> Annoying, why is this so, who would want this behaviour, except for
> Afghans perhaps. 

Have you tried to set up your locale in systemsettings to Germany?

> But it does not matter much, as I cannot store the data:
> when I press the OK button, I get a dialog where I should select the
> address book to store the data in, but the list is empty. Great. I tried
> adding a new address book, now I have two entries called "address book"
> and one called "personal contacts", still I cannot add an entry.

Try to get akonadi to complete its migration, or I think what you're trying to 
do will not work.

> - Dolphin can do FTP, but I have to repeat the login process several times
> until I see the destination files.

I've also noticed an error when I try to connect with ftp saying that the 
connection failed, but then if I click on reload it connects fine.

> - I just tried to listen to a CD, but KsCD does not find it. The eject
> button ejects, but does not close the tray if pressed again. Okay. I just
> thought I could play CDs with KDE. Can you?

Yes, although KsCD looks and feels pretty clunky.

> - And I am currently editing a page in my wiki with konqueror, but after
> the dialog appeared that I should save the edits, it sort of hangs. I can
> reload the page, but cannot edit any more. The good thing is that I did
> not edit that much yet. Which is also a bad thing, because when editing
> longer parts I cop the text to the clipboard from time to time, just in
> case something crashes. I'm doing this with this mail, too.
> Hmm, looks like konqueror is still working just as usual, it's just it
> does no display updates at all. It's the first time it happened, but as it
> just happened while I was writing this rant, I thought I'd include it.

Haven't noticed this.

> - Of course, Amarok keeps doing weird things. At least I can play music
> from my collection. But playing a stream sometimes crashes it. And
> dragging files into Amarok always leads to a crash. Yeah, I know, Amarok
> is not KDE.

Given up on that long ago (and sadly have not found a nice replacement which 
won't pull in the whole of Gnome or worse)

> But at least one bug was fixed, I got a mail from bugzilla about this
> today. It's the bug that makes password dialogs not work if the password
> is to be displayed as three bullets. Wow, nearly two months after it had
> been reported, this serious bug was at least confirmed to exist and is
> fixed now. Maybe this bug happens seldomly, but when it happens, much of
> KDE4 is unusable, as you have no kmail, no kwallet, nothing that needs a
> password works.

Hmm ... no such problem over here.

> Dale, you brave, brave man, are you really using KDE4 now?
> 
> 	Wonko
> 

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

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Oh my. Trying again. I already started a reply months ago, but kontact 
crashed, and I lost it. I started again, ranted about KDE4, tried to open 
systemsettings in order to check Mick's suggestions, but I misclicked and 
hit kontact, which is directly below in my favorite list. Of course, 
starting kontact under KDE4 does not open a 2nd instance of the program, 
or gives a warning that I am about to start another instance which I 
should not do, no, it just makes the running kontact crash. 
And again, the mail is gone. BTW, in the past that was no problem, kmail 
saved the drafts every two minutes (this is still configured that way in 
its settings), but this does not work. Even if I close if the regular way, 
unfinished mails are gone.
So I started for the third time, this time in thunderbird on a Windows 
mchine. And from time to time I marked the text and put it into the 
clipboard. I'm doing this with every longer mail now. I saved the mail as 
draft, and went to my Linxu machine where I resumed the edit. I wanted to 
try something and went into the import menu: Crash! Good thing 
the Windows Clipboard still had it.

Mick wrote:

> On Tuesday 09 March 2010 20:12:09 Alex Schuster wrote:

>> - Kontact. The old address book I had imported fro KDE 3.5 half a
>> year ago showed one "address book" and many std.vcf (or similar) files,
>> with my data scattered on them. I moved all stuff into the "address
>> book", and did not use it for a while
>> Now I wanted to do so, but it did not run due to an error with akonadi.
>
> Did you try to create a local resource using your systemsettings and
> point it to the local KDE3.5 contacts file?  If you restart the address
> book, then akonadi will kick in a carry out the migration - if it does
> not succeed it will tell you so.  In that case you may need to fix
> things manually (I've posted how in an older thread of mine, where I
> managed to make akonadi to succeed in its migration from a local
> resource file using sqlite - I don't have mysql in this box.  Let me
> know if you can't find it.)

I just tried that. I first added a dir-resource, as there are several .vcf 
files in my .kde3.5/share/appes/kabc directory. BTW, I had to copy that 
directory, as the file chooser did not show directories starting with a 
dot.
Nothing happened when I restarted kontact. I did the same with a file-
resource, when I noticed that all the .vcf files were identical. Again, 
nothing happened.

But: There are errors when akonadi is starting up during login. I think it 
did not do this when I wrote the last mail, but probably this is the 
problem now for the migration does not work. I attached the error parts of 
the log.

And I looked for your posting, and searched all of my gentoo-user archive, 
but somehow I did not find it. If you think it would help in my case, and 
if you still have it at hand, it would be nice if you could direct me to 
it (the subject would be enough).

>> I tried to figure out what this was, and how to get the error message
>> in English, but then I found out that I only have to restart kontact. 
>> Fine, now I want to add a contact. First, when I want to edit the
>> location, the country is set to Afghanistan, I always have to change
>> this to Germany.
>> Annoying, why is this so, who would want this behaviour, except for
>> Afghans perhaps.
>
> Have you tried to set up your locale in systemsettings to Germany?

Yes, it's set like that.


>> - Dolphin can do FTP, but I have to repeat the login process several
>> times until I see the destination files.
>
> I've also noticed an error when I try to connect with ftp saying that
> the connection failed, but then if I click on reload it connects fine.

Works sometimes, and sometimes not. Also, sometimes the content is not 
updated when I dragged files via FTP.
Other current dolphin problems:
- Opens maximized horizontally every time, except at session startup.
- The sorting is strange sometimes: Foo-1.srt, Foo-2.avi, 
Foo-1.avi, Foo-2.srt
- When the KDE session comes up, all dolphins have the same view. I'd like 
one of them to have a different view, but when I do this, next time the 
session comes up all dolphins will have this view, too. There is an option 
to remember every folder's view, but every time I open a new folder, it 
opens in symbol view first, not in the current view of the upper folder.


>> - Of course, Amarok keeps doing weird things. At least I can play music
>> from my collection. But playing a stream sometimes crashes it. And
>> dragging files into Amarok always leads to a crash. Yeah, I know, 
>> Amarok is not KDE.
>
> Given up on that long ago (and sadly have not found a nice replacement
> which won't pull in the whole of Gnome or worse)

It's getting better. It's more stable, and startup time is now 30 seconds 
instead of 7 minutes.
Have you tried clementine? It has the look of Amarok.


>> But at least one bug was fixed, I got a mail from bugzilla about this
>> today. It's the bug that makes password dialogs not work if the 
>> password is to be displayed as three bullets. Wow, nearly two months
>> after it had been reported, this serious bug was at least confirmed to
>> exist and is fixed now. Maybe this bug happens seldomly, but when it
>> happens, much of KDE4 is unusable, as you have no kmail, no kwallet,
>> nothing that needs a password works.
>> 
> Hmm ... no such problem over here.

Had you set the password dialog to show 3 bullets for each key pressed?

Another pretty bad thing that happened: Once when I started kontact, it 
showed me a birthday I had forgotten, two days AFTER the birthday 
It did not bother to remind me the days before when kontact was runing all 
the time. Now, what's the purpose of an organizer when you cannot trust it 
to show appointments? Good thing I don't use it much.


>> Dale, you brave, brave man, are you really using KDE4 now?

Still thinking about dumping it. The current most annoying bug is that 
about once a day the mouse stops working. I can move it, xeyes keeps 
watching it, and sometimes I can still use it inside a part of klast 
active window. But for nothing else. So I have to log out and back in 
again.
I'm not sure what the problem is, it happened after I updated to 
kde-4.4.3, xorg-1.7 and ati-drivers 10.4. Downgrading ati-drivers did not 
help, downgrading xorg did not succeed, I got compilation errors and gave 
up, as I suspect that it's KDE itself. But a downgrade to 4.4.2 would take 
a while, and I'd expect that alll hell might breake loose if I let this 
older version mess with my current .kde4 directory.
I hoped that a reinstall (because switching to a 64 bit OS) would 
magically solve this, but it didn't. I tried to kill and restart kwin and 
plasma-desktop, this did not help.

Current list of other, but not so bad problems:
- Konquerer used to ask if I really want to close it, or just the current 
tab. Not since 4.4.4.
- Ark cannot save all selected files via drag&drop, only one. And then it 
opens the home folder with dolphin, not the destination folder.
- Automatic spell checking no longer happens in kmail or konqueror.
- Session saving sometimes fails. I always back up my .kde4 before I dare 
this.
- Once my activities were on the wrong desktops, it took me a while until 
I had thinsg back as they should be.
- Konqueror crashes a lot.
- And every login the dialog comes up telling me that konqueror crashed, 
unless I quit every running instance before logging out of KDE.
- Konsole profiles show up in the menu only after I activated them in the 
profile dialog. Some of the things I have to repeat after every login into 
KDE.
- Strigi indexes some directory over and over again and again and again 
and again. And again and again. Then it crashes, and when I re-activate 
it, it indexes the folder again and again and again. And so on.

	Wonko

-- 
  Alex.Schuster@atv-gmbh.de       Mobil: (+49) 173 95 75 0 65

  Advanced Tomo Vision GmbH       Telefon (+49) 2273 91 36 24
  Rathausstraße 37                Telefax (+49) 2273 91 36 25
  50169 Kerpen                    E-Mail: support@atv-gmbh.de

[-- Attachment #2: akonadi-errors.txt --]
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Test 4:  ERROR
--------

MySQL server log contains errors.
Details: The MySQL server error log file &apos;<a href='/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/db_data/mysql.err'>/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/db_data/mysql.err</a>&apos; contains errors.

File content of '/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/db_data/mysql.err':
100608  9:33:33  InnoDB: Started; log sequence number 0 6080335
100608  9:33:35 [Warning] Can't open and lock time zone table: Table 'mysql.time_zone_leap_second' doesn't exist trying to live without them
100608  9:33:35 [ERROR] Can't open and lock privilege tables: Table 'mysql.servers' doesn't exist
100608  9:33:35 [Note] /usr/sbin/mysqld: ready for connections.
Version: '5.1.46-log'  socket: '/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/db_misc/mysql.socket'  port: 0  Gentoo Linux mysql-5.1.46


Test 14:  ERROR
--------

No resource agents found.
Details: No resource agents have been found, Akonadi is not usable without at least one. This usually means that no resource agents are installed or that there is a setup problem. The following paths have been searched: '/usr/share/akonadi/agents /usr/share/akonadi/agents'. The XDG_DATA_DIRS environment variable is set to '/usr/share:/usr/local/share:/usr/share', make sure this includes all paths where Akonadi agents are installed to.

Directory listing of '/usr/share/akonadi/agents':
birthdaysresource.desktop
contactsresource.desktop
icalresource.desktop
imapresource.desktop
kabcresource.desktop
kcalresource.desktop
knutresource.desktop
kolabproxyresource.desktop
localbookmarksresource.desktop
maildirresource.desktop
maildispatcheragent.desktop
mboxresource.desktop
microblog.desktop
mtdummyresource.desktop
nepomukcalendarfeeder.desktop
nepomukcontactfeeder.desktop
nepomuktagresource.desktop
nntpresource.desktop
notesresource.desktop
pop3resource.desktop
vcarddirresource.desktop
vcardresource.desktop
Directory listing of '/usr/share/akonadi/agents':
birthdaysresource.desktop
contactsresource.desktop
icalresource.desktop
imapresource.desktop
kabcresource.desktop
kcalresource.desktop
knutresource.desktop
kolabproxyresource.desktop
localbookmarksresource.desktop
maildirresource.desktop
maildispatcheragent.desktop
mboxresource.desktop
microblog.desktop
mtdummyresource.desktop
nepomukcalendarfeeder.desktop
nepomukcontactfeeder.desktop
nepomuktagresource.desktop
nntpresource.desktop
notesresource.desktop
pop3resource.desktop
vcarddirresource.desktop
vcardresource.desktop

Environment variable XDG_DATA_DIRS is set to '/usr/share:/usr/local/share:/usr/share'


Test 16:  ERROR
--------

Previous Akonadi server error log found.
Details: The Akonadi server did report error during its previous startup into <a href='/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadiserver.error.old'>/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadiserver.error.old</a>.

File content of '/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadiserver.error.old':
D-Bus session bus went down - quitting 


Test 18:  ERROR
--------

Previous Akonadi control error log found.
Details: The Akonadi control process did report error during its previous startup into <a href='/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadi_control.error.old'>/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadi_control.error.old</a>.

File content of '/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadi_control.error.old':
D-Bus session bus went down - quitting 


ata or log files.
InnoDB: Unable to lock ./ibdata1, error: 11
InnoDB: Check that you do not already have another mysqld process
InnoDB: using the same InnoDB data or log files.
[...]
100412 20:35:01  InnoDB: Unable to open the first data file
InnoDB: Error in opening ./ibdata1
100412 20:35:01  InnoDB: Operating system error number 11 in a file operation.
InnoDB: Error number 11 means 'Resource temporarily unavailable'.
InnoDB: Some operating system error numbers are described at
InnoDB: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/operating-system-error-codes.html
InnoDB: Could not open or create data files.
InnoDB: If you tried to add new data files, and it failed here,
InnoDB: you should now edit innodb_data_file_path in my.cnf back
InnoDB: to what it was, and remove the new ibdata files InnoDB created
InnoDB: in this failed attempt. InnoDB only wrote those files full of
InnoDB: zeros, but did not yet use them in any way. But be careful: do not
InnoDB: remove old data files which contain your precious data!
100412 20:35:01 [ERROR] Plugin 'InnoDB' init function returned error.
100412 20:35:01 [ERROR] Plugin 'InnoDB' registration as a STORAGE ENGINE failed.
100412 20:35:01 [ERROR] Unknown/unsupported table type: innodb
100412 20:35:01 [ERROR] Aborting

100412 20:35:01 [Note] /usr/sbin/mysqld: Shutdown complete



Test 14:  ERROR
--------

Current Akonadi server error log found.
Details: The Akonadi server did report error during startup into <a href='/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadiserver.error'>/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadiserver.error</a>.

File content of '/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadiserver.error':
Database error: Cannot open database. 
  Last driver error: "QMYSQL: Unable to connect" 
  Last database error: "Can't initialize character set utf8 (path: /usr/share/mysql/charsets/)" 
[...]


Test 15:  ERROR
--------

Previous Akonadi server error log found.
Details: The Akonadi server did report error during its previous startup into <a href='/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadiserver.error.old'>/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadiserver.error.old</a>.

File content of '/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadiserver.error.old':
D-Bus session bus is not available! 
"[
0: akonadiserver(_Z11akBacktracev+0x35) [0x80526e5]
1: akonadiserver() [0x8052c6c]
2: [0xffffe400]
3: [0xffffe424]
4: /lib/libc.so.6(gsignal+0x50) [0xb6e1b860]
5: /lib/libc.so.6(abort+0x185) [0xb6e1d095]
6: /usr/lib/qt4/libQtCore.so.4(_Z17qt_message_output9QtMsgTypePKc+0x9d) [0xb7481eed]
]
" 


Test 17:  ERROR
--------

Previous Akonadi control error log found.
Details: The Akonadi control process did report error during its previous startup into <a href='/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadi_control.error.old'>/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadi_control.error.old</a>.

File content of '/home/wonko/.local/share/akonadi/akonadi_control.error.old':
D-Bus session bus went down - quitting 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Mick]

Before you read specific answers below, you may want to check:

$ echo $XDG_DATA_DIRS
/usr/local/share:/usr/share

in your logs is shows:

Environment variable XDG_DATA_DIRS is set to
'/usr/share:/usr/local/share:/usr/share'

Why is /usr/share in there twice?  Could this mess things up?

On 17 June 2010 00:23, Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> wrote:
[snip ...]

> Mick wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday 09 March 2010 20:12:09 Alex Schuster wrote:
>
>>> - Kontact. The old address book I had imported fro KDE 3.5 half a
>>> year ago showed one "address book" and many std.vcf (or similar) files,
>>> with my data scattered on them. I moved all stuff into the "address
>>> book", and did not use it for a while
>>> Now I wanted to do so, but it did not run due to an error with akonadi.
>>
>> Did you try to create a local resource using your systemsettings and
>> point it to the local KDE3.5 contacts file?  If you restart the address
>> book, then akonadi will kick in a carry out the migration - if it does
>> not succeed it will tell you so.  In that case you may need to fix
>> things manually (I've posted how in an older thread of mine, where I
>> managed to make akonadi to succeed in its migration from a local
>> resource file using sqlite - I don't have mysql in this box.  Let me
>> know if you can't find it.)
>
> I just tried that. I first added a dir-resource, as there are several .vcf
> files in my .kde3.5/share/appes/kabc directory. BTW, I had to copy that
> directory, as the file chooser did not show directories starting with a
> dot.
> Nothing happened when I restarted kontact. I did the same with a file-
> resource, when I noticed that all the .vcf files were identical. Again,
> nothing happened.
>
> But: There are errors when akonadi is starting up during login. I think it
> did not do this when I wrote the last mail, but probably this is the
> problem now for the migration does not work. I attached the error parts of
> the log.

Can you run /etc/init.d/dbus restart before you try again?  Your
akonadi log complains about dbus (amidst other things).

> And I looked for your posting, and searched all of my gentoo-user archive,
> but somehow I did not find it. If you think it would help in my case, and
> if you still have it at hand, it would be nice if you could direct me to
> it (the subject would be enough).

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/224044

but this was about me being able to run the akonadi migration without
having to install mysql.  I used sqlite instead.  Have a look at the
file I refer to anyway, just in case something is amiss in there.

>>> I tried to figure out what this was, and how to get the error message
>>> in English, but then I found out that I only have to restart kontact.
>>> Fine, now I want to add a contact. First, when I want to edit the
>>> location, the country is set to Afghanistan, I always have to change
>>> this to Germany.
>>> Annoying, why is this so, who would want this behaviour, except for
>>> Afghans perhaps.
>>
>> Have you tried to set up your locale in systemsettings to Germany?
>
> Yes, it's set like that.

Have you set up your local timezone in /etc/conf.d/clock, in case this
affects it?

>>> - Dolphin can do FTP, but I have to repeat the login process several
>>> times until I see the destination files.
>>
>> I've also noticed an error when I try to connect with ftp saying that
>> the connection failed, but then if I click on reload it connects fine.
>
> Works sometimes, and sometimes not. Also, sometimes the content is not
> updated when I dragged files via FTP.
> Other current dolphin problems:
> - Opens maximized horizontally every time, except at session startup.
> - The sorting is strange sometimes: Foo-1.srt, Foo-2.avi,
> Foo-1.avi, Foo-2.srt
> - When the KDE session comes up, all dolphins have the same view. I'd like
> one of them to have a different view, but when I do this, next time the
> session comes up all dolphins will have this view, too. There is an option
> to remember every folder's view, but every time I open a new folder, it
> opens in symbol view first, not in the current view of the upper folder.

These could all be bugs with dolphin.  I've had different problems
with it on 3 Gentoo boxen + 1 Ubuntu.

>>> - Of course, Amarok keeps doing weird things. At least I can play music
>>> from my collection. But playing a stream sometimes crashes it. And
>>> dragging files into Amarok always leads to a crash. Yeah, I know,
>>> Amarok is not KDE.
>>
>> Given up on that long ago (and sadly have not found a nice replacement
>> which won't pull in the whole of Gnome or worse)
>
> It's getting better. It's more stable, and startup time is now 30 seconds
> instead of 7 minutes.
> Have you tried clementine? It has the look of Amarok.

I had a go at Clementine, but if I recall correctly it wasn't friendly
with shoutcast streams.

>>> But at least one bug was fixed, I got a mail from bugzilla about this
>>> today. It's the bug that makes password dialogs not work if the
>>> password is to be displayed as three bullets. Wow, nearly two months
>>> after it had been reported, this serious bug was at least confirmed to
>>> exist and is fixed now. Maybe this bug happens seldomly, but when it
>>> happens, much of KDE4 is unusable, as you have no kmail, no kwallet,
>>> nothing that needs a password works.
>>>
>> Hmm ... no such problem over here.
>
> Had you set the password dialog to show 3 bullets for each key pressed?
>
> Another pretty bad thing that happened: Once when I started kontact, it
> showed me a birthday I had forgotten, two days AFTER the birthday
> It did not bother to remind me the days before when kontact was runing all
> the time. Now, what's the purpose of an organizer when you cannot trust it
> to show appointments? Good thing I don't use it much.
>
>
>>> Dale, you brave, brave man, are you really using KDE4 now?
>
> Still thinking about dumping it. The current most annoying bug is that
> about once a day the mouse stops working. I can move it, xeyes keeps
> watching it, and sometimes I can still use it inside a part of klast
> active window. But for nothing else. So I have to log out and back in
> again.
> I'm not sure what the problem is, it happened after I updated to
> kde-4.4.3, xorg-1.7 and ati-drivers 10.4. Downgrading ati-drivers did not
> help, downgrading xorg did not succeed, I got compilation errors and gave
> up, as I suspect that it's KDE itself. But a downgrade to 4.4.2 would take
> a while, and I'd expect that alll hell might breake loose if I let this
> older version mess with my current .kde4 directory.
> I hoped that a reinstall (because switching to a 64 bit OS) would
> magically solve this, but it didn't. I tried to kill and restart kwin and
> plasma-desktop, this did not help.
>
> Current list of other, but not so bad problems:
> - Konquerer used to ask if I really want to close it, or just the current
> tab. Not since 4.4.4.
> - Ark cannot save all selected files via drag&drop, only one. And then it
> opens the home folder with dolphin, not the destination folder.
> - Automatic spell checking no longer happens in kmail or konqueror.
> - Session saving sometimes fails. I always back up my .kde4 before I dare
> this.
> - Once my activities were on the wrong desktops, it took me a while until
> I had thinsg back as they should be.
> - Konqueror crashes a lot.
> - And every login the dialog comes up telling me that konqueror crashed,
> unless I quit every running instance before logging out of KDE.
> - Konsole profiles show up in the menu only after I activated them in the
> profile dialog. Some of the things I have to repeat after every login into
> KDE.
> - Strigi indexes some directory over and over again and again and again
> and again. And again and again. Then it crashes, and when I re-activate
> it, it indexes the folder again and again and again. And so on.

You may want to switch off strigi in systemsettings?

BTW, have you tried removing ~/.kde4 and then login into KDE afresh?
-- 
Regards,
Mick

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

Mick writes:
> Before you read specific answers below, you may want to check:
> 
> $ echo $XDG_DATA_DIRS
> /usr/local/share:/usr/share
> 
> in your logs is shows:
> 
> Environment variable XDG_DATA_DIRS is set to
> '/usr/share:/usr/local/share:/usr/share'
> 
> Why is /usr/share in there twice?  Could this mess things up?
> 
> On 17 June 2010 00:23, Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> wrote:
> [snip ...]
> 
> > Mick wrote:
> >> On Tuesday 09 March 2010 20:12:09 Alex Schuster wrote:
> >>> - Kontact. The old address book I had imported fro KDE 3.5 half a
> >>> year ago showed one "address book" and many std.vcf (or similar)
> >>> files, with my data scattered on them. I moved all stuff into the
> >>> "address book", and did not use it for a while
> >>> Now I wanted to do so, but it did not run due to an error with
> >>> akonadi.
> >> 
> >> Did you try to create a local resource using your systemsettings and
> >> point it to the local KDE3.5 contacts file?  If you restart the
> >> address book, then akonadi will kick in a carry out the migration -
> >> if it does not succeed it will tell you so.  In that case you may
> >> need to fix things manually (I've posted how in an older thread of
> >> mine, where I managed to make akonadi to succeed in its migration
> >> from a local resource file using sqlite - I don't have mysql in
> >> this box.  Let me know if you can't find it.)
> > 
> > I just tried that. I first added a dir-resource, as there are several
> > .vcf files in my .kde3.5/share/appes/kabc directory. BTW, I had to
> > copy that directory, as the file chooser did not show directories
> > starting with a dot.
> > Nothing happened when I restarted kontact. I did the same with a
> > file- resource, when I noticed that all the .vcf files were
> > identical. Again, nothing happened.
> > 
> > But: There are errors when akonadi is starting up during login. I
> > think it did not do this when I wrote the last mail, but probably
> > this is the problem now for the migration does not work. I attached
> > the error parts of the log.
> 
> Can you run /etc/init.d/dbus restart before you try again?  Your
> akonadi log complains about dbus (amidst other things).
> 
> > And I looked for your posting, and searched all of my gentoo-user
> > archive, but somehow I did not find it. If you think it would help
> > in my case, and if you still have it at hand, it would be nice if
> > you could direct me to it (the subject would be enough).
> 
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/224044
> 
> but this was about me being able to run the akonadi migration without
> having to install mysql.  I used sqlite instead.  Have a look at the
> file I refer to anyway, just in case something is amiss in there.
> 
> >>> I tried to figure out what this was, and how to get the error
> >>> message in English, but then I found out that I only have to
> >>> restart kontact. Fine, now I want to add a contact. First, when I
> >>> want to edit the location, the country is set to Afghanistan, I
> >>> always have to change this to Germany.
> >>> Annoying, why is this so, who would want this behaviour, except for
> >>> Afghans perhaps.
> >> 
> >> Have you tried to set up your locale in systemsettings to Germany?
> > 
> > Yes, it's set like that.
> 
> Have you set up your local timezone in /etc/conf.d/clock, in case this
> affects it?
> 
> >>> - Dolphin can do FTP, but I have to repeat the login process
> >>> several times until I see the destination files.
> >> 
> >> I've also noticed an error when I try to connect with ftp saying
> >> that the connection failed, but then if I click on reload it
> >> connects fine.
> > 
> > Works sometimes, and sometimes not. Also, sometimes the content is
> > not updated when I dragged files via FTP.
> > Other current dolphin problems:
> > - Opens maximized horizontally every time, except at session startup.
> > - The sorting is strange sometimes: Foo-1.srt, Foo-2.avi,
> > Foo-1.avi, Foo-2.srt
> > - When the KDE session comes up, all dolphins have the same view. I'd
> > like one of them to have a different view, but when I do this, next
> > time the session comes up all dolphins will have this view, too.
> > There is an option to remember every folder's view, but every time I
> > open a new folder, it opens in symbol view first, not in the current
> > view of the upper folder.
> 
> These could all be bugs with dolphin.  I've had different problems
> with it on 3 Gentoo boxen + 1 Ubuntu.
> 
> >>> - Of course, Amarok keeps doing weird things. At least I can play
> >>> music from my collection. But playing a stream sometimes crashes
> >>> it. And dragging files into Amarok always leads to a crash. Yeah,
> >>> I know, Amarok is not KDE.
> >> 
> >> Given up on that long ago (and sadly have not found a nice
> >> replacement which won't pull in the whole of Gnome or worse)
> > 
> > It's getting better. It's more stable, and startup time is now 30
> > seconds instead of 7 minutes.
> > Have you tried clementine? It has the look of Amarok.
> 
> I had a go at Clementine, but if I recall correctly it wasn't friendly
> with shoutcast streams.
> 
> >>> But at least one bug was fixed, I got a mail from bugzilla about
> >>> this today. It's the bug that makes password dialogs not work if
> >>> the password is to be displayed as three bullets. Wow, nearly two
> >>> months after it had been reported, this serious bug was at least
> >>> confirmed to exist and is fixed now. Maybe this bug happens
> >>> seldomly, but when it happens, much of KDE4 is unusable, as you
> >>> have no kmail, no kwallet, nothing that needs a password works.
> >> 
> >> Hmm ... no such problem over here.
> > 
> > Had you set the password dialog to show 3 bullets for each key
> > pressed?
> > 
> > Another pretty bad thing that happened: Once when I started kontact,
> > it showed me a birthday I had forgotten, two days AFTER the birthday
> > It did not bother to remind me the days before when kontact was
> > runing all the time. Now, what's the purpose of an organizer when
> > you cannot trust it to show appointments? Good thing I don't use it
> > much.
> > 
> >>> Dale, you brave, brave man, are you really using KDE4 now?
> > 
> > Still thinking about dumping it. The current most annoying bug is
> > that about once a day the mouse stops working. I can move it, xeyes
> > keeps watching it, and sometimes I can still use it inside a part of
> > klast active window. But for nothing else. So I have to log out and
> > back in again.
> > I'm not sure what the problem is, it happened after I updated to
> > kde-4.4.3, xorg-1.7 and ati-drivers 10.4. Downgrading ati-drivers did
> > not help, downgrading xorg did not succeed, I got compilation errors
> > and gave up, as I suspect that it's KDE itself. But a downgrade to
> > 4.4.2 would take a while, and I'd expect that alll hell might breake
> > loose if I let this older version mess with my current .kde4
> > directory.
> > I hoped that a reinstall (because switching to a 64 bit OS) would
> > magically solve this, but it didn't. I tried to kill and restart kwin
> > and plasma-desktop, this did not help.
> > 
> > Current list of other, but not so bad problems:
> > - Konquerer used to ask if I really want to close it, or just the
> > current tab. Not since 4.4.4.
> > - Ark cannot save all selected files via drag&drop, only one. And
> > then it opens the home folder with dolphin, not the destination
> > folder. - Automatic spell checking no longer happens in kmail or
> > konqueror. - Session saving sometimes fails. I always back up my
> > .kde4 before I dare this.
> > - Once my activities were on the wrong desktops, it took me a while
> > until I had thinsg back as they should be.
> > - Konqueror crashes a lot.
> > - And every login the dialog comes up telling me that konqueror
> > crashed, unless I quit every running instance before logging out of
> > KDE. - Konsole profiles show up in the menu only after I activated
> > them in the profile dialog. Some of the things I have to repeat
> > after every login into KDE.
> > - Strigi indexes some directory over and over again and again and
> > again and again. And again and again. Then it crashes, and when I
> > re-activate it, it indexes the folder again and again and again. And
> > so on.
> 
> You may want to switch off strigi in systemsettings?

That's what I do. But I'd like to use those desktop indexing features.

> 
> BTW, have you tried removing ~/.kde4 and then login into KDE afresh?

Boy, do I hate to do this. Getting all the settings back takes so much 
work. But now I did it anyways. It took me several hours, and still not 
everying is back as it was, but at least I have I cleaner setup now.



Impressions:

Some things are indeed fixed.

- Konqueror now respects the setting that it should ask before closing a 
window with multiple tabs.

- Dolphin no longer opens maximized.

- Ark no longer opens the home directory with dolphin when extracting 
files.

- Akonadi starts without errors!

Problems that still happen:

- Strigi scans already indexed files, then crashes. Repeates a cuple of 
times, then exits.

- Dolphin FTP does not work with Umlauts.

- Konsole profiles have to be activated in the profile dialog before they 
show up in the menu.

- Kmail did not save this e-mail, I lost my edits when my whole system 
just crashed. Now I wonder what _this_ was.

- Sessions are often saved incorrectly. Then some konquerors are missing, 
a dolphin is on the wrong desktop.

- Trying to move a plasmoid from the panel onto the desktops crashes 
plasma.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

I wrote:

> Alan McKinnon writes:

> > On Monday 01 March 2010 18:08:05 Alex Schuster wrote:

[...]
> > > solve this. And there are these annoying things. Like Amarok being
> > > very unstable, and taking 5 minutes to start. What the heck is it
> > > doing in this time?
> > 
> > Fuck knows what amarok-2x does for the first 5 minutes. I *think* On
> > my system it scans the music directory, presumably to find updates
> > that happened when amarok was not running. Fair enough, can't argue
> > that, but why is it so *slow*???
> 
> Yes, it scans the collection, I just verified that by removing a folder
> from my collection. Start-up takes 7 minutes, I guess this also slows
> down my KDE4 start-up even further (strigi also scans some stuff for
> about a minute, along this music files I did not touch in any way). So
> when I save my KDE session I have to remember to quit amarok before
> that. Of course, I also have to remember to start amarok some time
> after I logged in, so I can play music when I want without having to
> wait 7 minutes first.
> 
> This does not feel right...
> 
> BTW, a find /data/mp3 -type d takes about a minute. Checking the date
> of the directories to verify they did not alter since the last scan
> should not take that much longer.
> 
> Ah, I see the problem. It mainly scans /data/mp3/incoming, a directory
> I have NOT selected as collection folder (but most other directories
> in /data/mp3 are selected). Still, those files do not show up in my
> collection, which is fine - some time ago amarok did index all in
> /data/mp3, even if a directory was not selected.

More precisely: Amarok scans folders not selected as collection for *.m3u 
playlists, and looks up their files. I had reported this in [*], and got 
some responses, but no solution or even confirmation. But today I emerged 
Amarok 2.3.0.90, and startup time went from 7 minutes to around half a 
minute now, so this bug seems to be fixed.

	Wonko

[*] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229239

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 1083 bytes --]

On Monday 01 March 2010 16:08:05 Alex Schuster wrote:
> Alex Schuster wrote:
> 
> [KDE4 problems]
> 
> > And so on. But it's not so bad I cannot work with it (well, sometimes
> > it is, and then I have to fix it, like when the password dialog no
> > longer accepted passwords), and so I keep using it, waiting it to
> > become really stable and usable.
> 
> And another weekend of KDE4 trouble. I rebooted after some upgrades, along
> those were Qt and MySQL. Now, plasma-desktop crashed, also when restarting
> it on the command line. 
[snip ...]

> Sorry for the whining,

Nah!  It's good to vent every now and then.  :-))

Is it perhaps that you have a very complex/overloaded plasma set up?  I've 
updated KDE on two machines and went swimmingly well.  On one machine I first 
removed qt3 and then had no problems whatsoever.  On the other I can't recall 
what I did with qt3 ...

Other than that, I've noticed this sort of behaviour in the past with KDE2 and 
KDE3 when I was trying to use KDE while major apps were being updated.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

Mick writes:

> On Monday 01 March 2010 16:08:05 Alex Schuster wrote:

> > And another weekend of KDE4 trouble. I rebooted after some upgrades,
> > along those were Qt and MySQL. Now, plasma-desktop crashed, also
> > when restarting it on the command line.
> 
> [snip ...]
> 
> > Sorry for the whining,
> 
> Nah!  It's good to vent every now and then.  :-))

Thanks! <sniff>

> Is it perhaps that you have a very complex/overloaded plasma set up?

Not really.
I would like to, though, this stuff is actually quite nice. I changed my 
setup to have a different activity for each desktop, and I like it. I hope 
this stuff becomes more stable and usable soon. And I am missing features. 
Why can't I tell a plasmoid to appear on several desktops / activities I 
select, and not only on one? Why can't I insert another activity/desktop 
between the ones I already have? At the moment, I think I would have to 
close all plasmoids and re-open them on the new activity I want them to 
be, this is annoying.
But again, I like the whole idea, it's only not perfect yet.

> I've updated KDE on two machines and went swimmingly well.  On one
> machine I first removed qt3 and then had no problems whatsoever.  On
> the other I can't recall what I did with qt3 ...
> 
> Other than that, I've noticed this sort of behaviour in the past with
> KDE2 and KDE3 when I was trying to use KDE while major apps were being
> updated.

This might have been the problem. But I would not like to log out for 
that, I just do the world updates from time to time when the machine has 
not much else to do, but I like to keep my desktop session running.

	Wonko

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from
> any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
> desktops.
> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
> toolchains or in a browser.
>
> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some
> dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got
> a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never near
> full before.

Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.  emerge 
-a --depclean.  That should do it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Zeerak Mustafa Waseem]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1155 bytes --]

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> > I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> > important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> > I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from
> > any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
> > desktops.
> > I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
> > toolchains or in a browser.
> >
> > The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
> > running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
> > odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some
> > dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got
> > a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never near
> > full before.
> 
> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.  emerge 
> -a --depclean.  That should do it.
> 
> 

Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the semantic-desktop use flag set?

-- 
Zeerak Waseem

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[gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/24/2010 03:41 PM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from
>>> any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
>>> desktops.
>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
>>> toolchains or in a browser.
>>>
>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
>>> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some
>>> dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got
>>> a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never near
>>> full before.
>>
>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.  emerge
>> -a --depclean.  That should do it.
>
> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the semantic-desktop use flag set?

Don't know, never happened here.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Christian Schulze]

Am Mittwoch, 24. Februar 2010 15:12:58 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras:
> On 02/24/2010 03:41 PM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> >>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> >>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> >>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need
> >>> from any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for
> >>> multiple desktops.
> >>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
> >>> toolchains or in a browser.
> >>>
> >>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
> >>> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
> >>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some
> >>> dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've
> >>> got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never
> >>> near full before.
> >>
> >> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.  emerge
> >> -a --depclean.  That should do it.
> >
> > Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the
> > semantic-desktop use flag set?
> 
> Don't know, never happened here.
> 
Just tried it, and the following apps are being recompiled right now:

[ebuild   R   ] kde-base/pykde4-4.3.5-r1  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
[ebuild   R   ] kde-base/gwenview-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
[ebuild   R   ] kde-base/akonadi-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
[ebuild   R   ] net-wireless/kbluetooth-0.4.2  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
[ebuild   R   ] kde-base/plasma-workspace-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
[ebuild   R   ] kde-base/dolphin-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
[ebuild   R   ] kde-base/kdebase-runtime-meta-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
[ebuild   R   ] kde-base/kmail-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
[ebuild   R   ] kde-base/kdeplasma-addons-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"

Let's see if it works.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Dale]

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:
> Am Mittwoch, 24. Februar 2010 15:12:58 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras:
>    
>> On 02/24/2010 03:41 PM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
>>      
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>        
>>>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>>>>          
>>>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>>>>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
>>>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need
>>>>> from any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for
>>>>> multiple desktops.
>>>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
>>>>> toolchains or in a browser.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
>>>>> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
>>>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some
>>>>> dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've
>>>>> got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never
>>>>> near full before.
>>>>>            
>>>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.  emerge
>>>> -a --depclean.  That should do it.
>>>>          
>>> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the
>>> semantic-desktop use flag set?
>>>        
>> Don't know, never happened here.
>>
>>      
> Just tried it, and the following apps are being recompiled right now:
>
> [ebuild   R   ] kde-base/pykde4-4.3.5-r1  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
> [ebuild   R   ] kde-base/gwenview-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
> [ebuild   R   ] kde-base/akonadi-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
> [ebuild   R   ] net-wireless/kbluetooth-0.4.2  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
> [ebuild   R   ] kde-base/plasma-workspace-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
> [ebuild   R   ] kde-base/dolphin-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
> [ebuild   R   ] kde-base/kdebase-runtime-meta-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
> [ebuild   R   ] kde-base/kmail-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
> [ebuild   R   ] kde-base/kdeplasma-addons-4.3.5  USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>
> Let's see if it works.
>
>
>    

I seem to recall that I had to enable this for some updates recently.  
Something wouldn't compile without the USE flag being set.  I don't 
think I need the thing either so if this works now, I may change mine 
and try it too.  Also, I use the kde-meta package which may make a 
difference.

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/24/2010 06:03 PM, Dale wrote:
> chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:
>> Am Mittwoch, 24. Februar 2010 15:12:58 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras:
>>> On 02/24/2010 03:41 PM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>>>>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>>>>>> important to me. I have remained out of pure inertia.
>>>>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu. All I need
>>>>>> from any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for
>>>>>> multiple desktops.
>>>>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
>>>>>> toolchains or in a browser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
>>>>>> running out of disk space. A little research showed that an
>>>>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> dotfiles. It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is. I've
>>>>>> got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never
>>>>>> near full before.
>>>>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf. emerge -auDN world. emerge
>>>>> -a --depclean. That should do it.
>>>> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the
>>>> semantic-desktop use flag set?
>>> Don't know, never happened here.
>>>
>> Just tried it, and the following apps are being recompiled right now:
>>
>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/pykde4-4.3.5-r1 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/gwenview-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/akonadi-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>> [ebuild R ] net-wireless/kbluetooth-0.4.2 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/plasma-workspace-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/dolphin-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/kdebase-runtime-meta-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/kmail-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/kdeplasma-addons-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>
>> Let's see if it works.
>>
>>
>
> I seem to recall that I had to enable this for some updates recently.
> Something wouldn't compile without the USE flag being set. I don't think
> I need the thing either so if this works now, I may change mine and try
> it too. Also, I use the kde-meta package which may make a difference.

KMail from KDE 4.4 needs it.  KMail from KDE 4.3 doesn't.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Dale]

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:
> On 02/24/2010 06:03 PM, Dale wrote:
>> chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:
>>> Am Mittwoch, 24. Februar 2010 15:12:58 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras:
>>>> On 02/24/2010 03:41 PM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>>>>>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>>>>>>> important to me. I have remained out of pure inertia.
>>>>>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu. All I need
>>>>>>> from any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for
>>>>>>> multiple desktops.
>>>>>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
>>>>>>> toolchains or in a browser.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
>>>>>>> running out of disk space. A little research showed that an
>>>>>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> dotfiles. It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is. I've
>>>>>>> got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never
>>>>>>> near full before.
>>>>>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf. emerge -auDN world. 
>>>>>> emerge
>>>>>> -a --depclean. That should do it.
>>>>> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the
>>>>> semantic-desktop use flag set?
>>>> Don't know, never happened here.
>>>>
>>> Just tried it, and the following apps are being recompiled right now:
>>>
>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/pykde4-4.3.5-r1 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/gwenview-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/akonadi-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>> [ebuild R ] net-wireless/kbluetooth-0.4.2 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/plasma-workspace-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/dolphin-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/kdebase-runtime-meta-4.3.5 
>>> USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/kmail-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/kdeplasma-addons-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>>
>>> Let's see if it works.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I seem to recall that I had to enable this for some updates recently.
>> Something wouldn't compile without the USE flag being set. I don't think
>> I need the thing either so if this works now, I may change mine and try
>> it too. Also, I use the kde-meta package which may make a difference.
>
> KMail from KDE 4.4 needs it.  KMail from KDE 4.3 doesn't.
>
>

Since kde-meta would pull in Kmail, that could be the problem for me.  
If you folks are doing yours the manual way, you may can get away with 
it.  I suspect that some other packages will pull it in as KDE develops 
tho.  After all, KDE 4 has a LOT of eye candy to it.  Sort of like 
winders actually.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/24/2010 06:47 PM, Dale wrote:
> chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:
>> On 02/24/2010 06:03 PM, Dale wrote:
>>> chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:
>>>> Am Mittwoch, 24. Februar 2010 15:12:58 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras:
>>>>> On 02/24/2010 03:41 PM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>>>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>>>>>>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>>>>>>>> important to me. I have remained out of pure inertia.
>>>>>>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu. All I need
>>>>>>>> from any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for
>>>>>>>> multiple desktops.
>>>>>>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
>>>>>>>> toolchains or in a browser.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
>>>>>>>> running out of disk space. A little research showed that an
>>>>>>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> dotfiles. It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is. I've
>>>>>>>> got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never
>>>>>>>> near full before.
>>>>>>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf. emerge -auDN world.
>>>>>>> emerge
>>>>>>> -a --depclean. That should do it.
>>>>>> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the
>>>>>> semantic-desktop use flag set?
>>>>> Don't know, never happened here.
>>>>>
>>>> Just tried it, and the following apps are being recompiled right now:
>>>>
>>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/pykde4-4.3.5-r1 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/gwenview-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/akonadi-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>>> [ebuild R ] net-wireless/kbluetooth-0.4.2 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/plasma-workspace-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/dolphin-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/kdebase-runtime-meta-4.3.5
>>>> USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/kmail-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>>> [ebuild R ] kde-base/kdeplasma-addons-4.3.5 USE="-semantic-desktop*"
>>>>
>>>> Let's see if it works.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I seem to recall that I had to enable this for some updates recently.
>>> Something wouldn't compile without the USE flag being set. I don't think
>>> I need the thing either so if this works now, I may change mine and try
>>> it too. Also, I use the kde-meta package which may make a difference.
>>
>> KMail from KDE 4.4 needs it. KMail from KDE 4.3 doesn't.
>>
>>
>
> Since kde-meta would pull in Kmail, that could be the problem for me. If
> you folks are doing yours the manual way, you may can get away with it.

No, no manual way here.  I use meta packages too.  Just not kde-meta; 
that's the 
"includes-all-mega-duper-everything-mother-of-all-meta-packages" package.

Instead I use stuff like kdeartwork-meta, kdebase-meta, 
kdebase-runtime-meta, etc.  Emerging the actual packages all by hand 
would be too tedious.  I still need a few, but really just a few (and 
it's obvious which ones; for example if you have the Kate editor missing 
in KDE, you know you need to emerge kde-base/kate.)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Crístian Viana]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1686 bytes --]

there was a recent discussion about this on this mailing list:
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/msg_13c6d27e4216e91ed3c4800fe42b8e95.xml

it seems only Kmail needs that USE flag. I also haven't tried this on my
system.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:

> On 02/24/2010 03:41 PM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>>>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
>>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from
>>>> any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
>>>> desktops.
>>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
>>>> toolchains or in a browser.
>>>>
>>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
>>>> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
>>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some
>>>> dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got
>>>> a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never near
>>>> full before.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.  emerge
>>> -a --depclean.  That should do it.
>>>
>>
>> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the
>> semantic-desktop use flag set?
>>
>
> Don't know, never happened here.
>
>
>


-- 
Crístian Deives dos Santos Viana [aka CD1]
Sent from Campinas, SP, Brazil

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[gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/24/2010 04:28 PM, Crístian Viana wrote:
> there was a recent discussion about this on this mailing list:
> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/msg_13c6d27e4216e91ed3c4800fe42b8e95.xml
>
> it seems only Kmail needs that USE flag. I also haven't tried this on my
> system.

Question is: will enabling that USE flag only for kdelibs result in KDE 
in general using a "semantic desktop?"

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 24 February 2010 16:46:59 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 02/24/2010 04:28 PM, Crístian Viana wrote:
> > there was a recent discussion about this on this mailing list:
> > http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/msg_13c6d27e4216e91ed3c4800fe42b8e
> > 95.xml
> > 
> > it seems only Kmail needs that USE flag. I also haven't tried this on my
> > system.
> 
> Question is: will enabling that USE flag only for kdelibs result in KDE
> in general using a "semantic desktop?"

No. It means that kdelibs will support Nepomuk, whether individual apps do so 
or not is indeterminate. There are three possibilities for apps:

1. They build support for semantic desktop
2. They do not build support for semantic desktop
3. They can be configured to support or not support semantic desktop via USE

Plus a 4th option: buggy code that does some weird combination of 1-3 or 
perhaps something else altogether.

To answer your question, you would have to audit all the KDE4 apps and add up 
the tally against points 1-3 (and maybe 4)


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Mike Edenfield]

On 2/24/2010 8:41 AM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from
>>> any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
>>> desktops.
>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
>>> toolchains or in a browser.
>>>
>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
>>> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some
>>> dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got
>>> a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never near
>>> full before.
>>
>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.  emerge 
>> -a --depclean.  That should do it.
>>
>>
> 
> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the semantic-desktop use flag set?
> 

For KDE 4.4, +semantic-desktop is mandatory, though you can still turn
off the services after installing them.

Honestly, for what the OP appears to need out of a desktop environment,
he'd be more than happy with Xfce or something and save a ton of disk space.

--Mike

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Mike Edenfield wrote:
> On 2/24/2010 8:41 AM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> >>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> >>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> >>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need
> >>> from any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for
> >>> multiple desktops.
> >>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
> >>> toolchains or in a browser.
> >>> 
> >>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
> >>> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
> >>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some
> >>> dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've
> >>> got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never
> >>> near full before.
> >> 
> >> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.  emerge
> >> -a --depclean.  That should do it.
> > 
> > Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the
> > semantic-desktop use flag set?
> 
> For KDE 4.4, +semantic-desktop is mandatory, though you can still turn
> off the services after installing them.
> 
> Honestly, for what the OP appears to need out of a desktop environment,
> he'd be more than happy with Xfce or something and save a ton of disk
> space.
> 
> --Mike

the thing is - xfce does not necessarily use less ram. And semantic desktop 
can help him to easily find data points over a multitude of documents..,..

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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Am Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:

> > Honestly, for what the OP appears to need out of a desktop environment,
> > he'd be more than happy with Xfce or something and save a ton of disk
> > space.
> 
> the thing is - xfce does not necessarily use less ram. And semantic desktop
> can help him to easily find data points over a multitude of documents..,..

I grew tired of strigi and virtuoso eating CPU all the time, so after a week 
or two of using KDE4 over KDE3 again (and perhaps staying this time), I 
disabled it.

XFCE, like many, if not all other alternatives, are GTK-based, and I just 
can’t stand the way GTK tools look and how they use up screen space. It’s very 
sad that there’s no alternative Qt-based WM out there any more.
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' - http://www.stud.tu-ilmenau.de/~frst-ii/ - EDOB
Nicht von Staat und Konzernen ausschnüffeln lassen, E-Mails verschlüsseln!
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Privacy_Guard  http://hp.kairaven.de/pgp/

Warum summt die Biene? - Weil sie den Text vergessen hat.

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[gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/24/2010 06:43 PM, Mike Edenfield wrote:
> On 2/24/2010 8:41 AM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>>>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
>>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from
>>>> any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
>>>> desktops.
>>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
>>>> toolchains or in a browser.
>>>>
>>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
>>>> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
>>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some
>>>> dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've got
>>>> a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never near
>>>> full before.
>>>
>>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.  emerge
>>> -a --depclean.  That should do it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the semantic-desktop use flag set?
>>
>
> For KDE 4.4, +semantic-desktop is mandatory, though you can still turn
> off the services after installing them.
>
> Honestly, for what the OP appears to need out of a desktop environment,
> he'd be more than happy with Xfce or something and save a ton of disk space.

How do you know what he needs?  He probably wants KDE but without the 
whole "Semantic Desktop" thingy.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 02/24/2010 06:43 PM, Mike Edenfield wrote:
> > On 2/24/2010 8:41 AM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
> >> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> >>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> >>>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> >>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need
> >>>> from any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for
> >>>> multiple desktops.
> >>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
> >>>> toolchains or in a browser.
> >>>> 
> >>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
> >>>> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
> >>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some
> >>>> dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've
> >>>> got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never
> >>>> near full before.
> >>> 
> >>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.  emerge
> >>> -a --depclean.  That should do it.
> >> 
> >> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the
> >> semantic-desktop use flag set?
> > 
> > For KDE 4.4, +semantic-desktop is mandatory, though you can still turn
> > off the services after installing them.
> > 
> > Honestly, for what the OP appears to need out of a desktop environment,
> > he'd be more than happy with Xfce or something and save a ton of disk
> > space.
> 
> How do you know what he needs?  He probably wants KDE but without the
> whole "Semantic Desktop" thingy.


he wrote:

> Thanks.  My having research work with a few hundred thousand small files
and a couple of terrabytes of storage and backups could account for the
size.  Some occasional sluggishness too.  It makes no sense to index any of
this, so ditching it feels good.

and semantic-desktop was developed to help people with such workloads.

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/24/2010 07:08 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 02/24/2010 06:43 PM, Mike Edenfield wrote:
>>> On 2/24/2010 8:41 AM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>>>>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>>>>>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
>>>>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need
>>>>>> from any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for
>>>>>> multiple desktops.
>>>>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
>>>>>> toolchains or in a browser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
>>>>>> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
>>>>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some
>>>>>> dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've
>>>>>> got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never
>>>>>> near full before.
>>>>>
>>>>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.  emerge
>>>>> -a --depclean.  That should do it.
>>>>
>>>> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the
>>>> semantic-desktop use flag set?
>>>
>>> For KDE 4.4, +semantic-desktop is mandatory, though you can still turn
>>> off the services after installing them.
>>>
>>> Honestly, for what the OP appears to need out of a desktop environment,
>>> he'd be more than happy with Xfce or something and save a ton of disk
>>> space.
>>
>> How do you know what he needs?  He probably wants KDE but without the
>> whole "Semantic Desktop" thingy.
>
>
> he wrote:
>
>> Thanks.  My having research work with a few hundred thousand small files
> and a couple of terrabytes of storage and backups could account for the
> size.  Some occasional sluggishness too.  It makes no sense to index any of
> this, so ditching it feels good.
>
> and semantic-desktop was developed to help people with such workloads.

I don't understand your reply or what it answers.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 02/24/2010 07:08 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >> On 02/24/2010 06:43 PM, Mike Edenfield wrote:
> >>> On 2/24/2010 8:41 AM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >>>>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> >>>>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> >>>>>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> >>>>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need
> >>>>>> from any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for
> >>>>>> multiple desktops.
> >>>>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
> >>>>>> toolchains or in a browser.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
> >>>>>> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
> >>>>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in
> >>>>>> some dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.
> >>>>>>  I've got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was
> >>>>>> never near full before.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world. 
> >>>>> emerge -a --depclean.  That should do it.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the
> >>>> semantic-desktop use flag set?
> >>> 
> >>> For KDE 4.4, +semantic-desktop is mandatory, though you can still turn
> >>> off the services after installing them.
> >>> 
> >>> Honestly, for what the OP appears to need out of a desktop environment,
> >>> he'd be more than happy with Xfce or something and save a ton of disk
> >>> space.
> >> 
> >> How do you know what he needs?  He probably wants KDE but without the
> >> whole "Semantic Desktop" thingy.
> > 
> > he wrote:
> >> Thanks.  My having research work with a few hundred thousand small files
> > 
> > and a couple of terrabytes of storage and backups could account for the
> > size.  Some occasional sluggishness too.  It makes no sense to index any
> > of this, so ditching it feels good.
> > 
> > and semantic-desktop was developed to help people with such workloads.
> 
> I don't understand your reply or what it answers.

because you haven't read the thread before you wrote your email?

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/24/2010 07:57 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 02/24/2010 07:08 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>> On Mittwoch 24 Februar 2010, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>> On 02/24/2010 06:43 PM, Mike Edenfield wrote:
>>>>> On 2/24/2010 8:41 AM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>>>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>>>>>>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>>>>>>>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
>>>>>>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need
>>>>>>>> from any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for
>>>>>>>> multiple desktops.
>>>>>>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
>>>>>>>> toolchains or in a browser.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
>>>>>>>> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
>>>>>>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in
>>>>>>>> some dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.
>>>>>>>>   I've got a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was
>>>>>>>> never near full before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.
>>>>>>> emerge -a --depclean.  That should do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the
>>>>>> semantic-desktop use flag set?
>>>>>
>>>>> For KDE 4.4, +semantic-desktop is mandatory, though you can still turn
>>>>> off the services after installing them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Honestly, for what the OP appears to need out of a desktop environment,
>>>>> he'd be more than happy with Xfce or something and save a ton of disk
>>>>> space.
>>>>
>>>> How do you know what he needs?  He probably wants KDE but without the
>>>> whole "Semantic Desktop" thingy.
>>>
>>> he wrote:
>>>> Thanks.  My having research work with a few hundred thousand small files
>>>
>>> and a couple of terrabytes of storage and backups could account for the
>>> size.  Some occasional sluggishness too.  It makes no sense to index any
>>> of this, so ditching it feels good.
>>>
>>> and semantic-desktop was developed to help people with such workloads.
>>
>> I don't understand your reply or what it answers.
>
> because you haven't read the thread before you wrote your email?

Yeah, I'm the one who suggested the OP needs semantic desktop even 
though he clearly stated he doesn't:

"It makes no sense to index any of this, so ditching it feels good."

Perhaps it's a language barrier.  I'll state it in simpler words:  The 
OP does not want to index any of his files.  He wants to disable that 
functionality.  He has not indicated that he wants to switch from KDE to 
something else.

OK, another poster then showed up and suggested that he needs something 
other than KDE.  That didn't make any sense since the OP is using KDE 
and just wants the indexing stuff gone, which is what I pointed out. 
Then you come along with the statement as a reply to it:

"and semantic-desktop was developed to help people with such workloads."

which doesn't make any sense with the flow of the discussion.  Semantic 
desktop was invented for that, but the OP clearly stated he doesn't want it.

I am not the one who doesn't read the thread before writing my email.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Mike Edenfield]

On 2/24/2010 11:59 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> How do you know what he needs?  He probably wants KDE but without the
> whole "Semantic Desktop" thingy.

Well, mostly based on him telling us what he needs, and that he doesn't
really "want" KDE:

On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:

> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from
> any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
> desktops. 

it appears that all he needs is a panel and a pager, which any decent
window manager will have.  Therefore, if KDE is using up more resources
than he feels warranted, perhaps it's time to switch.

--Mike

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/24/2010 08:12 PM, Mike Edenfield wrote:
> On 2/24/2010 11:59 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>> How do you know what he needs?  He probably wants KDE but without the
>> whole "Semantic Desktop" thingy.
>
> Well, mostly based on him telling us what he needs, and that he doesn't
> really "want" KDE:
>
> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>
>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from
>> any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
>> desktops.
>
> it appears that all he needs is a panel and a pager, which any decent
> window manager will have.  Therefore, if KDE is using up more resources
> than he feels warranted, perhaps it's time to switch.

I have semantic desktop disabled and KDE offers a hell of a lot more 
than just a panel and a pager.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Zeerak Mustafa Waseem]

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On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 08:32:17PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 02/24/2010 08:12 PM, Mike Edenfield wrote:
> > On 2/24/2010 11:59 AM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >
> >> How do you know what he needs?  He probably wants KDE but without the
> >> whole "Semantic Desktop" thingy.
> >
> > Well, mostly based on him telling us what he needs, and that he doesn't
> > really "want" KDE:
> >
> > On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
> >
> >> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
> >> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
> >> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need from
> >> any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
> >> desktops.
> >
> > it appears that all he needs is a panel and a pager, which any decent
> > window manager will have.  Therefore, if KDE is using up more resources
> > than he feels warranted, perhaps it's time to switch.
> 
> I have semantic desktop disabled and KDE offers a hell of a lot more 
> than just a panel and a pager.
> 
> 

You're right. KDE does offer a lot more than just a pager and a panel with semantic desktop disabled, but the OP does state that all hee needs "is a panel with some favourites, and a pager for multiple desktops." Which pretty much any WM will give him.
Again, no one is telling him to switch, but suggesting that based on his needs, KDE might be overkill.

-- 
Zeerak Waseem

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Kevin O'Gorman]

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On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:

> On 02/24/2010 06:43 PM, Mike Edenfield wrote:
>
>> On 2/24/2010 8:41 AM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>>>>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
>>>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need
>>>>> from
>>>>> any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
>>>>> desktops.
>>>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
>>>>> toolchains or in a browser.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
>>>>> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
>>>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some
>>>>> dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've
>>>>> got
>>>>> a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never near
>>>>> full before.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.  emerge
>>>> -a --depclean.  That should do it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the
>>> semantic-desktop use flag set?
>>>
>>>
>> For KDE 4.4, +semantic-desktop is mandatory, though you can still turn
>> off the services after installing them.
>>
>> Honestly, for what the OP appears to need out of a desktop environment,
>> he'd be more than happy with Xfce or something and save a ton of disk
>> space.
>>
>
> How do you know what he needs?  He probably wants KDE but without the whole
> "Semantic Desktop" thingy.
>
>
>
Bingo!  I'm OP, and kind of like the KDE look, and I'm used to where things
are (except for the new K menu which I'm slowly adapting to).  I know how to
find things already, but indexing my gigabytes of game records is just
silly.

-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Kevin O'Gorman]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2505 bytes --]

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Kevin O'Gorman <kogorman@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de>wrote:
>
>> On 02/24/2010 06:43 PM, Mike Edenfield wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/24/2010 8:41 AM, Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 03:38:09PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/24/2010 04:27 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been using KDE for a long time, for reasons that are no longer
>>>>>> important to me.  I have remained out of pure inertia.
>>>>>> I use gnome happily at work, both on Fedora and Ubuntu.  All I need
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> any of them is a panel with some favorites, and a pager for multiple
>>>>>> desktops.
>>>>>> I spend most of my time in vim, in the C program and documentation
>>>>>> toolchains or in a browser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason I bring this up is that my account just froze on me from
>>>>>> running out of disk space.  A little research showed that an
>>>>>> odd-sounding thing called nepomuk was using 7.2 G (SEVEN GIGS) in some
>>>>>> dotfiles.  It turns out to be a KDE client - whatever that is.  I've
>>>>>> got
>>>>>> a lot of space here and there, but my /home partition was never near
>>>>>> full before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Put "-semantic-desktop" in your make.conf.  emerge -auDN world.  emerge
>>>>> -a --depclean.  That should do it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Is that even possible? Won't a number of KDE apps demand the
>>>> semantic-desktop use flag set?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> For KDE 4.4, +semantic-desktop is mandatory, though you can still turn
>>> off the services after installing them.
>>>
>>> Honestly, for what the OP appears to need out of a desktop environment,
>>> he'd be more than happy with Xfce or something and save a ton of disk
>>> space.
>>>
>>
>> How do you know what he needs?  He probably wants KDE but without the
>> whole "Semantic Desktop" thingy.
>>
>>
>>
> Bingo!  I'm OP, and kind of like the KDE look, and I'm used to where things
> are (except for the new K menu which I'm slowly adapting to).  I know how to
> find things already, but indexing my gigabytes of game records is just
> silly.
>
> --
> Kevin O'Gorman, PhD
>
> Oh, and I'll add that I have no use for KMail.  My mail is hosted elsewhere
in Zimbra, yahoo and gmail, depending on the kind of mail, and I'm satisfied
with the UIs that come with those.  I access them from a large number of
hosts, so don't want POP or similar access that makes local copies.

-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:17:26 -0800, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:

> Bingo!  I'm OP, and kind of like the KDE look, and I'm used to where
> things are (except for the new K menu which I'm slowly adapting to).

I didn't bother adapting to it, I adapted it to me, you can switch back
to the old style menu.

> I know how to find things already, but indexing my gigabytes of game
> records is just silly.

The strigi settings allow you to choose which directories are indexed, so
you could keep it running but exclude those game records.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Sir! Romulan warbird decloaki»®õ÷üÁ NO CARRIER

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Dale]

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:17:26 -0800, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
>> I know how to find things already, but indexing my gigabytes of game
>> records is just silly.
>>      
> The strigi settings allow you to choose which directories are indexed, so
> you could keep it running but exclude those game records.
>
>    

I ran across that setting while looking for something else.  I got it 
down to just my Documents folder.  There is not much in there so it is 
not to busy at all now.  It just barely blinks.  lol  It would be fun to 
watch it index my camera pics directory.  Over 160,000 pics so far.  I 
get camera happy at times.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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Am Donnerstag 25 Februar 2010 schrieb Kevin O'Gorman:

> Bingo!  I'm OP, and kind of like the KDE look, and I'm used to where things
> are (except for the new K menu which I'm slowly adapting to).  I know how
> to find things already, but indexing my gigabytes of game records is just
> silly.

Well, you can always switch to classic view by right-clicking on the K.
I concur it’s a lot of "Klicki-bunti", as we say in Germany (bunt=colourful). 
The only usability plus for the new type is the input field, but that’s 
already covered by KRunner.
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' - http://www.stud.tu-ilmenau.de/~frst-ii/ - EDOB
Nicht von Staat und Konzernen ausschnüffeln lassen, E-Mails verschlüsseln!
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Privacy_Guard  http://hp.kairaven.de/pgp/

Man kommt unfertig auf die Welt und wird dann fertiggemacht.

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Mateusz Mierzwiński]

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I have KDE4. It work's perfect. Try set "Custom-cxxflags" to off,
maybe this will help. From my opinion KDE and QT 4 don't like
customized C/CXX Flags, such as fomit-frame-pointer and similar. Try
to set correct USE flags and first of all - add DBUS to default
runlevel if Your "Welcome" screen don't work - it works for me. You
should also have Hald for X.org configuration. 

BTW. I don't use any desktop mail client - I've chosen GroupOffice
for web client with IMAP support and great tool for my work - safer
because of laptop disk crashes or similar - data is stored external
and it's delivered by OpenVPN with certificate nad data encryption. 

Chromium as major web browser, Subversion integrated with KDE, Wicd
as network configuration daemon. Also Kadu as IM, wine + winamp,
OpenOffice. Not installed Compiz for now, but I have it on my plans. 

Login screen works great, loading is realy fast. Only one problem
with Bluetooth but i think it's device fault - device USB connector
broken. Everyday working with dual-head 2 monitors - KDE 4 detects
when I connect another monitor, soundcard and Xine integration into
phonon works with no glitches. Other tools like SSH/SFTP integrated
into konqueror works great - konqueror itself also perfect!

It's good, it's fast, it's intuitive, it's "better desktop software",
it's XXI century desktop environment, not such as Gnome and funny
"icons trashroom" on desktop.

Why KDE? Because i like it. Don't say that this software SUCKS,
_check_Your_config_. If You have problem try to remove .kde or .kde4
folder in Your home directory and recreate profile.

At Wtorek, 29-06-2010 on 0:50 Alex Schuster wrote:

Kevin O'Gorman writes:

> As the OP, I'd like to know if anybody else has noticed how far OT
this
> thread has gone?
> Somebody please give it a meaningful title, and maybe the right
people
> will notice your thread....

But I think the title is just perfect! Well, not really, because,
despite 
my constant ranting and endless KDE4 problems, for which the only
sane and 
obvious solution would of course be to dump this whole crap, I would 
really really hate to do so.

KDE got me addicted. I refused to use it for a long time, and had
some 
crazy enlightenment setup which I was happy with, until it stopped 
working, and I gave KDE 3.something a try. I feared that the
complexity 
would make showstopping bugs happen more often, but on the other hand
it 
is of course nice to have an integrated system, with things like the
same 
file dialog for most applications. And so I got hooked. There were
some 
problems, but most of the time it worked well. But with time I
experienced 
some bitrot.

Then I got a new PC, and gave KDE4.2 a try. Many many bugs, but most
of 
them not really bad ones, but some nice new features instead. Like, 
konqueror still crashing often, but with recovery function. Kmail
crashed 
even less - well, this was not hard. And I thought these little
annoying 
bugs would be fixed soon.

But this bugfixing progress was slower than expected. Some things
never 
really worked. And big showstoppers happened, just as I feared before
I 
began this whole KDE adventure. For example, when KDE4's password
dialog 
stopped working. Suddenly I had no access to the KDE wallet [*],
could not 
read or write e-mail, or access my shares. I realized how dependent I
had 
become of all this. Well, not totally, there are lots of other e-mail

clients, and I can do most things in a plain text shell, but this
meant 
some work, mostly because I had a hard time getting my passwords
back.

On the other hand, I like my KDE setup. 8 desktops, each customized
to the 
activity I am doing there. Convenient shortcuts to the things I do,
to the 
locations I access. Geeky stuff. Nice software, like kontact. I
really 
really like this - if it works. When not, I think about dumping all.

Why am I writing all this? I don't know. Kevin, despite me
considering 
your thread as mine now, I will open a new one about specific
problems.

[*] And a similar thing just happned yesterday. I wanted to go to
bed, but 
I had to write an important e-mail first. I started it, and after
some 
lines whole kontact froze. I killed it, started again, and the same 
happened. I killed it, wrote an e-mail to myself, which worked. I
started 
the mail I had to write again, kontact froze after a little while. I 
killed it, wrote the mail in knotes first, pasted it into the
composing 
window, added a CC, pushed the send button... kontact froze. Tried
again, 
same result. Then I used thunderbird.
I looked what I had emerged this day, but nothing had to do much with

kontact. I logged out and in again - and got dozends of notification 
windows telling me that kwalletmanager just crashed. I'm still not
sure 
what had happened with kontact, I guess it wanted to access the
wallet 
when sending the mail, maybe also when making an automatic backup. 
Whatever. I restored a backup of my .kde4 directory that I had made
one 
day ago, still no wallet. But with the next backup, 5 days old, I
could 
log in. I finally found out I had to exchange the 
.kde4/share/apps/kwallet/kdewallet.kwl file, and all was back to
normal. 
And I could finally go to bed.

Wonko



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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE? Get me out of here!

[Alex Schuster]

Mateusz Mierzwiński writes:

> I have KDE4. It work's perfect.

Whooo, now at least this sounds good!

> Try set "Custom-cxxflags" to off,
> maybe this will help. From my opinion KDE and QT 4 don't like
> customized C/CXX Flags, such as fomit-frame-pointer and similar.

I have:
CFLAGS="-march=k8-sse3 -mfpmath=sse -O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer"

AFAIK -fomit-frame-pointer should be perfectly safe, at the only cost of 
making debugging harder. I already thought about removing it anyway, so my 
bug reports will make more sense. BTW, does anyone know _how_ _much_ this 
flag is suposed to seed things up, is it even noticeable?

And then I just loked at the Safe CFLAGS page [*], and it says:
  The flag -fomit-frame-pointer is enabled at -O1, -O2, -O3 and -Os on
  arches where it doesn't interfere with debugging, such as AMD64, but not
  x86. So if you're on x86 you should add it to your CFLAGS.

About -mfpmath=sse: I think I enabled it after a discussion about what -
march=native would do. Now the gcc documentation [2] says:
  For the i386 compiler, you need to use -march=cpu-type, -msse or -msse2
  switches to enable SSE extensions and make this option effective. For
  the x86-64 compiler, these extensions are enabled by default.

So I will turn off both -mfpmath=sse and -fomit-frame-pointer, but it 
would change nothing.

> Try to set correct USE flags

They should be okay I think...

> and first of all - add DBUS to default runlevel if Your "Welcome" screen
> don't work - it works for me.

I once had this problem, but now DBUS is in the default runlevel.

> You should also have Hald for X.org configuration. 

Do you mean I should configure X via the /etc/hal/fdi/policy/ that will be 
obsolete soon? I have the hal USE flag set, but X is configured by 
xorg.conf only.

> BTW. I don't use any desktop mail client - I've chosen GroupOffice
> for web client with IMAP support and great tool for my work - safer
> because of laptop disk crashes or similar - data is stored external
> and it's delivered by OpenVPN with certificate nad data encryption. 

Uh, I just hate web clients. That's what I have a desktop environment for, 
with consistent looking applications, shortcuts, drag&drop and what else.
I am using kmail with IMAP over SSL.

> Chromium as major web browser,

I tried chromium once, about half a year ago, but it crashed instantly. 
Emerging it again. But I like Konqueror very much. It has problems with 
some web sites, for those I use Firefox. I am missing some of Firefox' 
plugins, and it works much better with the new flash, but over all I like 
Konqueror's behaviour better. Maybe I could change Firefox behaviour in 
the advanced settings, I did not look into this yet. And from time to time 
Friefox also gives me trouble, and I have to remove my profile directory 
to make it start again.

Chromium is built, and seems to work. Oh, it's fast. And uses few memory. 
And even has web shortcuts, that's great. And flash just works, while 
konquerro has major problems with it.

> Subversion integrated with KDE, Wicd
> as network configuration daemon. Also Kadu as IM, wine + winamp,
> OpenOffice. Not installed Compiz for now, but I have it on my plans. 

Here: CVS via command line, static network configuration, kopete, Amarok 
(which I find beautiful), occasionally OpenOffice.


> Login screen works great, loading is realy fast. Only one problem
> with Bluetooth but i think it's device fault - device USB connector
> broken. Everyday working with dual-head 2 monitors - KDE 4 detects
> when I connect another monitor, soundcard and Xine integration into
> phonon works with no glitches. Other tools like SSH/SFTP integrated
> into konqueror works great - konqueror itself also perfect!

Ah, so you DO like konqueror! Great. 

> It's good, it's fast, it's intuitive, it's "better desktop software",
> it's XXI century desktop environment, not such as Gnome and funny
> "icons trashroom" on desktop.

I mostly agree. If only there weren't all those little bugs. It still 
looks quite unfinished to me.
Ican somehow live with these bugs, but I am not sure if I should recommend 
KDE4 for others. At my institute we are also using KDE4 now, which makes 
some things convenient. But it is bad to have nice dolphin shortcuts to 
FTP locations, and dolphin cannot read remote files when they contain 
umlauts. And you you need to have another way of getting them. For the 
users, it might be easier to learn this second, reliable method only, 
instead of also learning to use the more convenient one which sometimes 
does not work.

> Why KDE? Because i like it. Don't say that this software SUCKS,
> _check_Your_config_. If You have problem try to remove .kde or .kde4
> folder in Your home directory and recreate profile.

I just did this some days ago and re-created most things from scratch, 
except for kmail. That was a lot of work BTW, I spent a couple of hours 
doing that. Some things are fixed indeed, but most problems persist.
BTW, I had made some screenshots of my desktops after this, when most 
things were set up again as I like them.
http://www.wonkology.org/comp/desktop/2010-06-19/

And I recently switched from ~x86 to ~amd64, without a change in KDE4's 
behaviour.

Here's a list of my current KDE bugs. There are many, fortunately most of 
them are really minor issues.

ANNOYING:

Plasma:

- The add plasmoids menu that opens above the panel is hard to access as 
it closes most often when I move the mouse into it.

- Moving a plasmoid from the panel onto the desktop is probably supposed 
to work (why else would the drag operation start at all?), but it makes 
plasma crash. Fortunately, it restarts automatically and things are as 
before, except for a minimized 'JavaEmbeddedFrame' application which I 
cannot restore or close. Whatever.

- The comic plasmoid refuses to show an increasing number of comics, and 
currently after login does not show any at all. And does not keep the size 
I give it.

- Moving and resizing plasmoids does not always work, they just plop back 
into their last position and size. After some tries, it finally works, but 
at the next login they are back to where they were sometimes.

Kontact:

- Sometimes complains at system startup that it is already running.

- Sometimes segfaults when closing, and does not start again until I kill 
it process manually.

- When adding a new contact, I sometimes cannot select an address book to 
store as the dialog shows none. Restarting kontact helps, but I have to 
fill out everything again.

- Probably related: all contacts sometimes all have the same information 
in them.

- Akonadi sometimes complains about missing resource agents when logging 
into KDE.

Kopete:

- Shows me as online, but is not. Probably related to hibernating, going 
offline and online again fixes this.

- Pressing the back / Forward button repeatedly and fast gives a message 
that I just received a message from that contact, and asks whether the 
chat sould really be cleared. Okay, I just pause a little (1/2 second) 
between each press, so it's no problem. But these things look to me as the 
authors of kopete did not try such things theirselves, or else they would 
have fixed them.

Kmail:

- Allows for multiple tabs, but then in these tabs new messages are not 
shown (only in the folder list). So, they added a nice feature, but to 
actually see new mails I have to close the tabs and select the folder 
again.

- I can not open a new tab when mails for an account are fetched.

- Attachements are sometimes saved with a size of 0. Bad if you do not 
check and realize this much later. has not happened for a while, it#s 
probably fixed, but I still check just in case.

- The 'g' key sometimes does nothing.

- Sometimes the mouse is not shown inside kmail.

- Sometimes checks IMAP folders but never stops, aborting doe snot help, 
needs to be restarted.

- Once showed a mail on gentoo-user with my address, but I was not the 
author of this message.

- Going offline while some move operation is still pending makes it hang.

- When searching large folders, a message appears telling me that first 
all messages of folder X have to be downloaded, and this will take some 
time. It appears for every folder (I surely had MANY of them), and the 'do 
not ask again' checkbox does not prevent this. So I spent a while 
accepting t

- kmail used to save messages I was composing, and the auto-save interbval 
is still set. But when it crashes, or even if I quit it regularly, it has 
forgotten about mails I was currently composing.

Konqueror:

- Also somtimes has no mouse cursor inside its window.

- Bookmark editor still crashes sometimes

- Sometimes shows a weird scrolling problem when scolling a page down 
works, but when dragging the slider only updates a few lines of pixels at 
the top. Opening the page in a new tab and closing the old one helps.

- When scrolling with the mouse wheel, it sometimes srolls to the right, 
too.

- Seldomly when scrolling a page down, it scrolls down and down until at 
the end of the page.

- Crashes fairly often, for example when scrolling in the shoutbox of a 
phpbb forum. I did not find such a forum with open access so I could not 
report this bug.

- In new tabs, the first click on a link sometimes does nothing.

- The saved session sometimes misses a window.

- The saved sessino sometimes shows tabs with old content, even older than 
when the session was saved.

- At session startup, I get the crash recovery dialog for some of the 
konquerors which were open when I logged out last time.

Dolphin:

- Sometimes shows artifats that look like the shape of the preview window, 
but show other parts of the desktop.

- Needs double logins for FTP .

- Sometimes does not update the display after uploading files via FTP.

- Does not allow to download files with umlauts via FTP (I have to do this 
regularly)

- Once sorted files like this: Foo-1.srt, Foo-2.avi, Foo-1.avi, Foo-2.srt

Krunner (this Alt-F2 thing):

- Is really slow sometimes

- Currently crashes when I enter someting.

Misc:

- Knode once forgot all old messages.

- knotes shows the scrollbar only when the mouse is inside it, and changes 
the layout becausethe scrollbar needs additional space. Okay, really not a 
bad bug, but still it's a little annoying as things I want to mark move 
around when I enter the window.

- Konsole lets me select other profiles only after I enable them first in 
the profile dialog.

- kalgebra once did wrong calculations with large numbers. Fixed long ago, 
but these ar ethe kind of bugs I do not want to have. What use is a 
calculator, when I have do double check with another one just in case it 
is wrong again?

- KDE 3.5 had a nice print preview, but it seems there is none in KDE 4?

- Nepomuk once used several gigabytes for its database. Does no longer 
happen, but then this may be because it crashes before. When logging in to 
KD, strigi starts indexing, crashes after a minute, indexes the same 
folders again, crashes again, until it stops completely after some more 
crashes. At least now it crashes after a minute, with my old setup when I 
let it index my MP3s, it ran for days. So I have strigi desactivated.

- Saving a session often does not work correctly, so I never ever do this 
without making a backup of my .kde4 directory.

- The 'explosion' desktop effect when closing windows is nice, but also 
happens for the little display of current size and position that appears 
when moving a window around, and as such gets on my nerves. Yeees, this is 
really no big deal, but it's on my list of bugs anyway, and I think it 
shows that the KDE guys do not test or use these things much, or do not 
care much about it.

- I have the Windows key as modifier wor window stuff, instead of Alt. I 
can select Meta-Shift-Tab in order to switch backwards though windows, but 
it does not work. So I'm using Meta-Caps-Tab isntead for this.

- Some dialog windows of a specific application always open in the 
background, behind other windows. I checked the window settings, they are 
empty.

- After playing Quake3, the panel has black areas. Switching Composite off 
and on again (Alt-Shift-F12) usually fixes this. For other OpenGL 
applications like Nexuiz, I have to open another window manager on another 
X server, as this sometimes has the weirdest effecs to the KDE desktop.

- Amarok: Did not play streams, showed a corrupted collection for several 
times, sometimes just did not play, refused drag&drop, lost tags I had 
set, killed .ogg files when editing tags, took 7 minutes for startup... 
but these seem all to fixed.

- Automatic spell checking in applications like kmail or konqueror does 
not happen in KDE 4.4.4. You will find lots of typos in this mail that I 
would have corrected else. When still working, it had trouble with 
abbreviations which were always shown as errors, and it sometimes refused 
to add words to the custom dictionary.

- KsCD once did not find my CD-ROM. When I just wanted to test this again, 
Amarok starts checking the CD, and is very busy with that, for several 
minutes now. The information thingy in the tray shows 0/11 tasks, all with 
empty progress bars and no further information. Using the desktop got 
really slow, some mouse clicks took 20 seconds to take place, I 
accidentally removed the system tray while clicking around, and the system 
was so slow it took me a while to add the tray again, even after I ejected 
the CD. This is a good example of what I experience often: I do some 
something new, like inserting a CD, and weird things start to happen. But 
at least KsCD seems to work now. Oh, even though I closed KsCD and removed 
the CD, and I do not seem it in the system tray, it still eats up 10 % of 
my CPU power.

- Occasionally, the phonon sound system does not work. I get a message 
about this during login. Next login, all is fine again.

- And why is it not possible to save multiple marked files via drag&drop 
in ark?

REALLY ANNOYING:

- kontact crashes when started for a second time, which sometimes 
accidentally happens to me. Mails I was composing are lost.

- For two times, plasmoids were on the wrong desktop. As moving them 
around to other desktops / activities does not seem to be possible, I edit 
.kde4/share/config/plasma-desktop-appletsrc directly to make them appear 
on their usual places.

- About once a day, only parts of the last active applications reacts to 
the mouse. Seems to happen in konqueror only. I can click links, but the 
menus do not work. When I kill it, the next allication which gets the 
input focus gets partially responsive to the mouse. I have to log out, 
which is possible only via Ctrl-Alt-Del and waiting for 30 seconds, I 
cannot even confirm the logout requester. Okay, there's also Ctrl-Alt-
Shift-Del, whcih I just found out about. I thought this might be related 
to javascript, as it only happens in konqueror, so I turned it off, and it 
did not happen for two days, but then it did. Oh, and then it just 
happened again, while composing this mail. At least I can switch to this 
window and save this as draft. But this time Ctrl-Alt-Del does not work, I 
have to restart KDM.

- Back again. What happened some days ago was a corrupted KDE wallet, 
which made kwalletmanager not start. I got dozends of dialog windows from 
various applications like kmail or kopete, and additionaly lots of 
kwalletmanager crash windows.

- Longer ago I experienced a bug even worse. When the KDE password dialog 
was set to show three bullets per character, it did not work. I had no 
access to my wallet, could not use kmail, or access FTP locations with 
dolphin. Took me quite a while until I finally found out myself what 
setting was responsible for that. A total show stopper. The bug was fixed 
two months after it had been reported, which I find is quite a long time 
for such a serious bug.

That's most of it. I did not yet report too many of them yet, mostly 
because I thought the developers also use KDE and already know many, but 
then maybe they happen to few people only.

	Wonko
 

[1] http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Safe_Cflags

[2] http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.3.0/gcc/i386-and-x86_002d64-
Options.html#i386-and-x86_002d64-Options

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[walt]

On 06/29/2010 07:23 AM, Alex Schuster wrote:

> I have:
> CFLAGS="-march=k8-sse3

Hm. I've never seen that flag before.  My k8 supports only sse2.

> AFAIK -fomit-frame-pointer should be perfectly safe, at the only cost of
> making debugging harder. I already thought about removing it anyway, so my
> bug reports will make more sense. BTW, does anyone know _how_ _much_ this
> flag is suposed to seed things up, is it even noticeable?

I've never been able to see any difference, so I don't use omit-fp. But, the
main cpu-intensive app I use is gcc, and I admit I've never actually measured
the difference.

> Uh, I just hate web clients. That's what I have a desktop environment for,

I agree completely, but the Software-As-A-Service paradigm is getting a lot
of attention from M$ *and* google as a more profitable alternative to selling
shrink-wrapped software like M$-Office. (M$ ran out of good ideas to persuade
people to buy new versions of Office many years ago, IMHO.)

When companies that rich and powerful push web-only services as the answer to
their revenue prayers, I suspect they may be able to win.

I hate web-mail, and I always use pop3 or imap when I can, but I can't force
my employer to offer those services if they've decided that running a web-
mail server is cheaper.  I've tried many times, but I'm losing the battle.

If the trend continues, only port 80 will be in use in a few years.  Will the
black hat hackers be unhappy about that?  Dunno, but I'd guess not.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: KDE? Get me out of here!

[waltdnes]

On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 06:04:59PM -0700, walt wrote

> When companies that rich and powerful push web-only services as the
> answer to their revenue prayers, I suspect they may be able to win.

  The answer to that is Gnumeric/Abiword, unless MS/Google get them
outlawed.  OpenOffice (Bleagh) and KOffice (Bleagh) are bloated, but
some people still use them.

> If the trend continues, only port 80 will be in use in a few years.
> Will the black hat hackers be unhappy about that?  Dunno, but I'd
> guess not.

  Hackers will be very happy and clients will be very vulnerable...
duhhhh, nice profitable company youse got there Mr. CEO.  It would be a
shame if something terrible should happen to your cashflow, like your
internet connection was killed by a backhoe, or a DDOS attack.  Now, for
only a few thousand dollars per month in protection, wese can see to it
that nothing terrible happens to your beautiful cashflow.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>