From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NgkWd-0004gn-8Q for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:53:03 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BA62FE09B1; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:52:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vw0-f53.google.com (mail-vw0-f53.google.com [209.85.212.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BFFFE09B1 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:52:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vws17 with SMTP id 17so1023412vws.40 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:52:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:subject:date :user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id; bh=lXVFUBZdhMKMmgaMDsQN2TJDesvdrmuOkwizp+aMSB0=; b=iCAQXO/9e/2xF0T1joqIiTEONyS0i/oUEwGZvkQ9/TLrgPGIOOXUXGs464SwOnNWvw bDJ4OhJV7sxiKYI3h3oyzV8GYyH8xXiq2T7dVIwasTpH72KHKbvYgXtqOM8rWEbIb2Pj uoJkjCzbVeGIGFpCLfuf19JkTfbp8ZgbimJRY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; b=uiV7zDsrM8irzWp7XPCm9Sjq+vjK6EbPpXne7ysV0ZPTF0MlUonzADVHWJRELygtkv DUvZskuCn4PzFQzCb4CqGeHSsxaYFaWptYC2gUtk0M4sG6d2mtetyiEgN01BB4D7pkM9 sjbPp1Gqf72mtOtKtXYNe0tO2JUm3s6Rg7AbQ= Received: by 10.220.127.68 with SMTP id f4mr2875541vcs.237.1266177147083; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:52:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nazgul.localnet (196-210-238-65.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.210.238.65]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 38sm57431720vws.4.2010.02.14.11.52.24 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:52:25 -0800 (PST) From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files? Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:50:09 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.0 (Linux/2.6.32-zen6; KDE/4.4.0; x86_64; ; ) References: <20100208222047.GA6553@muc.de> <201002141819.17351.volkerarmin@googlemail.com> <4B784490.80908@metux.de> In-Reply-To: <4B784490.80908@metux.de> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201002142150.09275.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> X-Archives-Salt: f8333422-4f85-486c-bd57-baf511cc751a X-Archives-Hash: d816809b431b36a45e36cb4ba0633ce2 On Sunday 14 February 2010 20:44:32 Enrico Weigelt wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > no, but with static exes you have to recompile everything > > everytime a security bug is found. > > That's the job of the distro buildsystem. Ah, and that dramatically > minimizes the chance that things break apart (i still remember > the old times when libc updates tended to be dangerous). > > > Oh - and didn't you just complain about bloat? Nothing means > > more bloat than static binaries. > > As already said, all this under the axiom that libs are *small* > and complex/redundant things are done by separate services. > Perhaps you might have a look at Plan9 and how its done there. To be fair, Plan9 is Unix done right. For all it's power, Unix (the system, not just the kernel) has some very severe flaws. Why can't I prepend data to a file using any of the common shells? Why are pipes 1 input 1 output, instead of the more useful 1 input same data to 2 or more outputs? Why is the permission model so simplistic? Why is ELF so prone to bloat (or more accurately why do so many compilers generate such large libs?) The answer is because of the available constraints at the time these things were introduced. Partly the amount of grunt available from systems of the time, partly the speed of disks, partly to keep things simple and to an irreducible minimum, with a huge helping of how easy a platform it is to develop on. For better or worse, what we have is what we have and it's the sum total of the past. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com