From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Nf9Tm-0005Nq-H8 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:07:30 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E9141E091D; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:07:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com (ey-out-1920.google.com [74.125.78.145]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB79CE091D for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:07:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so225eyg.40 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:07:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:subject:date :user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id; bh=642V0RRP8DUDeaYNGbOrxkVfLv96s+wwIHS4/Bvxtws=; b=Rv/9ewcla8CnaV0ry763X8KnzAss5o/hvip/M4LtirlQ5WVgxKKs/mpe7lT8ENLdoW mHzRti2pGKOWifa2LV2hawaR4gJWJ7bN6FUVguiknWwAxh7U+NGavt8+WuP9ZDcF9xS7 mjrufrmU1kN2hgyL0USBP+tUaqSBgDFTFJFFI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; b=nsO2V/73Zp+eX7EJcw9yRJydIzu/hiN2SqV9qk0KLVxC7F/zRGFo6rAQ5HGaYzOUWU 3+SnzYhzjRigSa/0dW7PlHH651eMYotk5IZZc3xRyIZgjyKbPmn5PZVdphPEITgE+0C7 GfSCGIlygibhcQH4fH9z1VZUXbcF8uHBgm708= Received: by 10.213.103.208 with SMTP id l16mr6011848ebo.65.1265796430027; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:07:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nazgul.localnet (196-210-238-65.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.210.238.65]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 16sm717980ewy.6.2010.02.10.02.07.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:07:09 -0800 (PST) From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files? Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:04:57 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.0 (Linux/2.6.32-zen6; KDE/4.4.0; x86_64; ; ) References: <20100208222047.GA6553@muc.de> <4B726D44.8010709@gmail.com> <20100210093852.6ca601af@digimed.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20100210093852.6ca601af@digimed.co.uk> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201002101204.57903.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> X-Archives-Salt: a80ca5e3-73bd-4c03-8918-eca3cd2c434e X-Archives-Hash: 813b3fb2d79493153ff86fef3a1c9e59 On Wednesday 10 February 2010 11:38:52 Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:24:36 -0600, Dale wrote: > > > hal is a classic "Second System Effect" case > > > > > > But I thought we thrashed this to death a while ago and all agreed to > > > never speak of this abomination again, while we await the Third > > > System Effect aka DeviceKit? > > > > From what I read it appears to be the same guy doing both. Maybe, > > > > just maybe, some lessons were learned and it will be a lot better. > > Isn't that the point of redoing it? It's when someone else comes along > with brand new way of doing things that we get a whole load of brand new > problems? It really is the same guy. His blog said something to the effect of: "hal is a load of crap. I knew it long ago, the other devs knew it slightly less longer ago and the users now know it too. We were trying to do too much and shoehorn too many things into the same boxes that belonged in different boxes. I'm fed up trying to maintain this steaming mess, will not be adding new features, and wash my hands of it. I'll be doing a rewrite called DeviceKit." So kudos to the man for recognizing the real problem, admitting it, and moving onto a real solution. Nothing wrong with making a mistake and fixing it - that's how we learn. Personally, my mistakes teach me MUCH more than my successes - I then know what not to do :-) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com