From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NIUv5-00082G-Va for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:22:04 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BE187E07AB; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 22:21:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ew0-f214.google.com (mail-ew0-f214.google.com [209.85.219.214]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72C59E07AB for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 22:21:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ewy6 with SMTP id 6so2560784ewy.29 for ; Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:21:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:subject:date :user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id; bh=4M23FrSKSGMGOPdJk99YxG6CwZHQXM+6V/1oYeEux8w=; b=RGnxnBi64El1Wf+L4Uw+5jyxzzxbp87vGq/UT/u2qWk+GJ4qxmeyILlTm9PHCCkn6g WMiUx7N0ZyXvOqDNuVvRgJHM0jh0L2N/bFQyjifnyMNv9jmjHSa6Lm/5Mzt0NsEASXhb UYb8EvTmAhl1MOYldNzmQbIcxekJFUN5Unoeo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; b=lvnOf5J5mPtOE8vWt3jR9iBgDA1XPSDJcBRuk5GH80HAllIwSxjLUf5tUCftg8Jb8c pqRyQI8cdBHkl41CxalIB5q5QuA8BtHFjlWRqabW7zT4lndZ+/NOLtP3qzuP30gyYksB QC29YPeGANlntan/s0SBObKRanydOmsAgCgS0= Received: by 10.213.99.207 with SMTP id v15mr3178169ebn.73.1260397311791; Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:21:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from nazgul.localnet (196-210-140-29-rrdg-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za [196.210.140.29]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 13sm180511ewy.1.2009.12.09.14.21.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:21:50 -0800 (PST) From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Problems setting up sshd on an installation kernel Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 00:20:40 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.12.4 (Linux/2.6.31-zen9; KDE/4.3.4; x86_64; ; ) References: <20091206144836.GA2599@muc.de> <200912092142.56433.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200912100020.40685.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> X-Archives-Salt: fa0760e2-e0f8-4c2f-91c1-657fbd7bb78a X-Archives-Hash: 829a6bb14d0c0266f32340162ae350c9 On Wednesday 09 December 2009 23:57:18 Stroller wrote: > On 9 Dec 2009, at 19:42, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > ... > > Installation is supposed to be an atomic operation - it > > starts then continues till it ends. It either fully completes or is > > considered > > to not have happened, meaning that persistence is diametrically > > opposed to > > what an install is. It's analogous to a compile - terminating > > compilation at > > some arbitrary point then picking up from where it ended at some > > later point > > is just not supported. Possible yes, but not supported by default. > > I'd disagree with you on that point, assuming I'm reading you right. > > If a compile fails it shouldn't be an "unsupported" situation. One > should be able to reemerge the package, possibly after emerging a > required dependency first. That should work just fine (and surely it > always does?). I made an analogy, a poor one :-), which only goes as far as it goes (and that's not very far). I meant that if gcc is running and compiling some arbitrary .c and you hit ^C, there's no magic incantation to tell gcc to find what it was doing and continue from that point as if the interruption never happened. Likewise with installation - you can't just decide to stop halfway, shut the box down and continue tomorrow expecting the software to pick up where you left off automagically (without you having to do anything extra). Consider *any* installation media of your choice for *any* OS; none of them that I have ever used allow you to interrupt the install and continue later. I see no reason why the install dev and the doc dev should support such a feat on Gentoo even if it is technically feasible. > Likewise it's not at all uncommon to make a mistake during the > installation process - to miss out an essential kernel driver or > package, and find that the installation fails to boot. The way I > interpret your statement is that the supported remedy is to start > again completely from scratch. Clearly this is not what one does Correct, one normally redoes the setup commands: boot, mkdir, mount, mkmoredirs, more mount, mount proc, chroot, cp resolv.conf etc etc etc and continue. This only works because any data written to the disk during $INSTALL_ATTEMPT_1 is persistent by virtue of it being written to *disk*. And there is no need to untar a stage all over again. By happy coincidence, oftentimes after chrooting one finds an environment that has everything required to run sshd, but there is no guarantee of that at all. So one can try start sshd, if it works then all well and good, if not then that's tough. Either way the human running the show is on his own with this one. I still maintain that the doc dev is correct in refusing to document such a thing - it's way too unreliable and uncertain to even warrant a mention. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com