[gentoo-user] Quoting style on HTC Dream

[gentoo-user] Quoting style on HTC Dream

[Alan McKinnon]

My new! improved! shiny! Android phone has a Gmail app. It's nice to use but 
it's quoting style is horrible and looks thusly:

Gdm itself has a config option to disallow root logins

   On Nov 12, 2009 10:02 PM, "Mick" <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:

   I should know how to do this ...
 
   It isn't as simple as commenting out vc7 in /etc/securetty, right?  The
   persistent offenders would try to start another X session on a different
   vc.
 
   Is there a trick I could add in /etc/pam.d/login or one of the
   /etc/pam.d/gdm* files perhaps?
   
   --
   Regards,
   Mick
 
Now, I don't use Gmail in a browser much, I pop my mail and reply with a 
mailer. So I'm mostly clueless about changing GMail defaults.

I want to be a good netizen (really!), so anyone got some hints and tips?

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Quoting style on HTC Dream

[Paul Hartman]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> My new! improved! shiny! Android phone has a Gmail app. It's nice to use but 
> it's quoting style is horrible and looks thusly:

Oh my :)

I've never used or even seen Android, but I googled and found this:

http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1136

Maybe that's similar to what you're dealing with...

I've never seen a mobile phone with an email client on it that supported
proper traditional quoting. They all either top post or don't even quote
at all.

So I'd say add a signature indicating you're writing from mobile and
people can get over the fact that you've top-posted. :) Or try to find a
third-party e-mail client that supports traditional quoting methods.

Re: [gentoo-user] Quoting style on HTC Dream

[Alan McKinnon]

On Friday 13 November 2009 08:43:39 Paul Hartman wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > My new! improved! shiny! Android phone has a Gmail app. It's nice to use
> > but it's quoting style is horrible and looks thusly:
> 
> Oh my :)
> 
> I've never used or even seen Android, but I googled and found this:
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1136
> 
> Maybe that's similar to what you're dealing with...
> 
> I've never seen a mobile phone with an email client on it that supported
> proper traditional quoting. They all either top post or don't even quote
> at all.

Looks like the use-case for mail on smart phones is twitter users wanting to 
type something longer than a twit. 

It all seems geared to having disconnected IM conversations over email, rather 
than actual email :-)

> So I'd say add a signature indicating you're writing from mobile and
> people can get over the fact that you've top-posted. :) Or try to find a
> third-party e-mail client that supports traditional quoting methods.
 
That's a plan.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Quoting style on HTC Dream

[Albert Hopkins]

On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 01:25 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> My new! improved! shiny! Android phone has a Gmail app. It's nice to use but 
> it's quoting style is horrible and looks thusly:
> 

Isn't Android "supposed" to be Open Source?  What's to stop you from
fixing the code yourself and recompiling, or does that somehow
"invalidate" your phone?

Also could they have picked a less masculine-sounding name (perhaps the
HTC Twilight)?

-a

Re: [gentoo-user] Quoting style on HTC Dream

[Alan McKinnon]

On Friday 13 November 2009 10:15:43 Albert Hopkins wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 01:25 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > My new! improved! shiny! Android phone has a Gmail app. It's nice to use
> > but it's quoting style is horrible and looks thusly:
> 
> Isn't Android "supposed" to be Open Source?

The kernel is Linux so it's OSS and so are most of the APIs. License is GPL. 
The user-space apps are not necessarily GPL though (just like on the desktop) 
and I haven't seen the code for the GMail app


> What's to stop you from
> fixing the code yourself and recompiling, 

Apart from "I really can't be bothered so I'll download something else" 
nothing stops me :-)

> or does that somehow
> "invalidate" your phone?

It's not an iPhone and Apple's psychosis doesn't enter the picture, I can 
install any user-space app I feel like. The warranty is already invalid 
though, for a different reason - I flashed it with an OS and firmware that's 
far superior to the one my carrier thinks I should have :-)

> Also could they have picked a less masculine-sounding name (perhaps the
> HTC Twilight)?

The OS versions are cupcake, donut and eclair. Faced with that, HTC's names 
for the hardware seem somewhat irrelevant <hehehe>

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Quoting style on HTC Dream

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:36:29 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> The kernel is Linux so it's OSS and so are most of the APIs. License is
> GPL. The user-space apps are not necessarily GPL though (just like on
> the desktop) and I haven't seen the code for the GMail app

It must be available, K9-Mail uses at least some of it.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Blessed be the pessimist for he hath made backups.

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[gentoo-user] Re: Quoting style on HTC Dream

[James]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon <at> gmail.com> writes:

> It's not an iPhone and Apple's psychosis doesn't enter the picture, I can 
> install any user-space app I feel like. The warranty is already invalid 
> though, for a different reason - I flashed it with an OS and firmware that's 
> far superior to the one my carrier thinks I should have 


OH BOY,

My son wants a droid phone. I'm pushing him towards the HTC droid
as I think we can customize it, if not eventually run embedded 
Gentoo on this phone.

I'd be most interested in the details of the exact model you purchased
and what resources and howtos you are following, so I can customize 
this phone for him, aka linux style...

You are using Verizon as your cellular service? I'm stuck with Verizon
for a variety of reasons....

> > Also could they have picked a less masculine-sounding name (perhaps the
> > HTC Twilight)?

The one were looking at is call the HTC Eris, I believe....
 


James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting style on HTC Dream

[Alan McKinnon]

On Friday 13 November 2009 18:29:49 James wrote:
> Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon <at> gmail.com> writes:
> > It's not an iPhone and Apple's psychosis doesn't enter the picture, I can
> > install any user-space app I feel like. The warranty is already invalid
> > though, for a different reason - I flashed it with an OS and firmware
> > that's far superior to the one my carrier thinks I should have
> 
> OH BOY,
> 
> My son wants a droid phone. I'm pushing him towards the HTC droid
> as I think we can customize it, if not eventually run embedded
> Gentoo on this phone.

Do you mean "droid" as a synonym for Android?

Motorola are soon releasing a phone called Droid, you might want to look at 
it. It will ship with Android 2.0, has a *huge* screen and overall very 
positive reviews.

HTC has the Dream (swing out screen with physical keyboard) also known as the 
G1; plus the Tattoo and Hero (also known as Magic) - these two are touch 
screen only

> I'd be most interested in the details of the exact model you purchased
> and what resources and howtos you are following, so I can customize
> this phone for him, aka linux style...

I got the G1 Dream as a physical keyboard is a must for me. Virtual keyboards 
are a nice extra but I just can't get to grips with only that.

Flashing it is quite easy. The kernel is very recent Linux with the Android 
user-space APIs as developed (mostly) by Google and a very light-weight Java 
VM for apps. Google supplies a full SDK free as in freedom plus free as in 
beer. Anyone familiar with embedded devices will feel right at home.

To flash it you need root privileges which is a trivial hack; carrier-provided 
phones usually have this disabled but this too has been hacked around. Then 
followed Google and HTC's own docs on the flash procedure :-)

Two sites provide everything you need:

http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Dream
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/index.php/Main_Page

HTC images available at http://developer.htc.com/adp.html

This page describes how to install Debian so gentoo will also be possible:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=507291


> You are using Verizon as your cellular service? I'm stuck with Verizon
> for a variety of reasons....

I'm in South Africa, where Verizon is something we used to have :-)

Business rules are different here so very little of the rules here will be 
applicable in the US

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] Re: Quoting style on HTC Dream

[James]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon <at> gmail.com> writes:


> Do you mean "droid" as a synonym for Android?

yes,
Verizon is offering the HTC ERIS (DROID) phone, in 
addition to the Mot DROID phone:
http://www.htc.com/us/product/droideris/specification.html

> To flash it you need root privileges which is a trivial hack; carrier-provided 
> phones usually have this disabled but this too has been hacked around. Then 
> followed Google and HTC's own docs on the flash procedure 

> http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Dream
> http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/index.php/Main_Page
> HTC images available at http://developer.htc.com/adp.html
> 
> This page describes how to install Debian so gentoo will also be possible:
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=507291

Nice links but do they relate to the Mot version of the DROID, or just the HTC?
Mot put a very fast Cortex-A8 arm chip in their phone......

Will flashing work with the Verizon HTC Eris phone like yours?
Not sure by my googling results.....


James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting style on HTC Dream

[Alan McKinnon]

On Friday 13 November 2009 23:35:21 James wrote:
> Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon <at> gmail.com> writes:
> > Do you mean "droid" as a synonym for Android?
> 
> yes,
> Verizon is offering the HTC ERIS (DROID) phone, in
> addition to the Mot DROID phone:
> http://www.htc.com/us/product/droideris/specification.html

Nice phone, looks a lot like the Hero available here

> > To flash it you need root privileges which is a trivial hack;
> > carrier-provided phones usually have this disabled but this too has been
> > hacked around. Then followed Google and HTC's own docs on the flash
> > procedure
> >
> > http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Dream
> > http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/index.php/Main_Page
> > HTC images available at http://developer.htc.com/adp.html
> >
> > This page describes how to install Debian so gentoo will also be
> > possible: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=507291
> 
> Nice links but do they relate to the Mot version of the DROID, or just the
>  HTC? Mot put a very fast Cortex-A8 arm chip in their phone......

Sorry, but I really have no idea. It might turn out similar to trying to run 
686 code on a 486

> Will flashing work with the Verizon HTC Eris phone like yours?
> Not sure by my googling results.....

Everything I've read suggests that flashing either works or it doesn't, and if 
it doesn't then you can roll back to factory preset.

But that's a big if, so you might want to wait till some of the more 
experienced hackers show if it can be done.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting style on HTC Dream

[felix]

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 04:29:49PM +0000, James wrote:

> My son wants a droid phone. I'm pushing him towards the HTC droid
> as I think we can customize it, if not eventually run embedded 
> Gentoo on this phone.

I have a G1, normal model, not flashed.  I too wanted it because of
its physical keyboard, but then someone developed a pay program ($5 I
think, well worth it) called Better Keyboard which has been so good
that I don't use the physical keyboard any more and no longer consider
it a necessity, at least for Android.  Friends who have an iPhone say
this Better Keyboard is better than the iPhone's soft keyboard.

I would also look at Nokia's open source phone, Maeomo I believe,
which actually runs Debian, much much closer to true open source.
Android apps HAVE to be written in their subset of Java, at least on
the normal phone -- I don't know about jail broken ones.  The Maemo
can take programs from anything -- perl, python, etc, no doubt plain
old C and even assembler if you want to.  No doubt you could put
gentoo on it.

One problem with the G1 is its small memory, making it possible that
it won't be able to use the 2.0 features.  It can take humonguous SD
chips, but the internal program flash is just too small.  Plus it does
not have multitouch like the iPhone or the new Motorola Droid, which
would be a big improvement.

I have not looked into these new phones much because my G1 is only a
year old, still runs fine, and still has a year to go on the danged
contract.  But if I were looking for a new phone today, I would start
by investigating the Maemo, then look at other Androids which don't
have a physical keyboard but do have multitouch, and finally at the
Droid.  The physical keyboard adds complexity and cost and bulk and
weight, and Better Keyboard is so good that I don't use mine any more.

(for the record :-)

Here are some of the things I like about Better Keyboard:

  Vibrate feedback on each keystroke.

  Long press on a key pops up a small window with all the extra chars
  on that key, such as accented keys.

  Side swipe brings up alternate keyboards, such as 2 chars per key
  like a cross between standard num pad texting and a real keyboard,
  or a numbers-only keyboard, or symbols-only.

  Lots of different themes which are useful, making it easier to find
  one that your eyes are happy with.

  Easy to invoke -- just tap in any text area and it comes up.

  Switches horizontal and vertical layouts as you switch the phone.

  Provides a list of possible words as you type, and you can build up
  your own local dictionary.

All of these are configurable, near as I can tell.

If you have a chance to try Better Keyboard on someone else's phone,
you might find it so good that you won't insist on the physical
keyboard.  The biggest problem I have with the physical keyboard is
that since it is half depth on the G1, the very right side keys are
hard to get sometimes, with my fingers banging into the right side of
the G1 which is full height.  This may not be so on other Androids.

And don't forget that the physical keyboard does not rotate 90 degrees
as you rotate the phone, unlike the cirtual keyboards.  I find Better
Keyboard almost as easy to use when crammed into the vertical position
as when horizontal.

-- 
            ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
     Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & rocket surgeon / felix@crowfix.com
  GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E  6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933
I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting style on HTC Dream

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:21:06 -0800, felix@crowfix.com wrote:

> I have a G1, normal model, not flashed.  I too wanted it because of
> its physical keyboard, but then someone developed a pay program ($5 I
> think, well worth it) called Better Keyboard which has been so good
> that I don't use the physical keyboard any more and no longer consider
> it a necessity, at least for Android.  Friends who have an iPhone say
> this Better Keyboard is better than the iPhone's soft keyboard.

I'll give that a try. The Android soft keyboard is OK, but nothing to
write home about... or with.

> One problem with the G1 is its small memory, making it possible that
> it won't be able to use the 2.0 features.  It can take humonguous SD
> chips, but the internal program flash is just too small.

I believe it's already been stated that 2.0 won't be pushed out to the
G-1.

> Plus it does
> not have multitouch like the iPhone or the new Motorola Droid, which
> would be a big improvement.

That's a software limitation, the touchscreen supports multitouch and
I've seen a hacked G-1 with multitouch working.
 
> I have not looked into these new phones much because my G1 is only a
> year old, still runs fine, and still has a year to go on the danged
> contract.  But if I were looking for a new phone today, I would start
> by investigating the Maemo, then look at other Androids which don't
> have a physical keyboard but do have multitouch, and finally at the
> Droid.

I had more or less decided to go for the N900 when my contract expires in
a few months, then Motorola confused things by releasing the Droid. Now
I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar.

> Here are some of the things I like about Better Keyboard:

Is this in the Market? If so, I'll give it a try as you can get a refund
on paid programs within the first 24 hours.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

IBM - I Blame Microsoft

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting style on HTC Dream

[felix]

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 09:30:42AM +0000, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:21:06 -0800, felix@crowfix.com wrote:
> > Plus it does
> > not have multitouch like the iPhone or the new Motorola Droid, which
> > would be a big improvement.
> 
> That's a software limitation, the touchscreen supports multitouch and
> I've seen a hacked G-1 with multitouch working.

The hardware supports a limited multitouch sort of by chance.  It
loses track of fingers too close to the vertical or horizontal so if
you want to pinch or spread for zoom, you have to do it at an angle.
Rotation doesn't work thru a vertical or horizontal, altho a clever
program could make a guess.

> > Here are some of the things I like about Better Keyboard:
> 
> Is this in the Market? If so, I'll give it a try as you can get a refund
> on paid programs within the first 24 hours.

Yes, I think $5.  I had tried the builtin virtual keyboard and found
it barely better than nothing, but nowhere near as good as the physical
keyboard.  I was reluctant to try Better Keyboard but it turned out so
good that I wondered if Google would incorporate many of its features
into some later version of Android, maybe even buy rights to it if not
just plain copy.

-- 
            ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
     Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & rocket surgeon / felix@crowfix.com
  GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E  6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933
I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting style on HTC Dream

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 14 November 2009 11:30:42 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > I have not looked into these new phones much because my G1 is only a
> > year old, still runs fine, and still has a year to go on the danged
> > contract.  But if I were looking for a new phone today, I would start
> > by investigating the Maemo, then look at other Androids which don't
> > have a physical keyboard but do have multitouch, and finally at the
> > Droid.
> 
> I had more or less decided to go for the N900 when my contract expires in
> a few months, then Motorola confused things by releasing the Droid. Now
> I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar.
> 

hehehe, I know that feeling. I eventually had to draw a line in the sand and 
make a decision. Consider that I'd been mulling over what smart phone to get 
for 4 years, I figured it was time :-)

Here in South Africa, we get all the mundane phones almost as soon as everyone 
else. Top of the line gear though - we wait 12 months at least usually.

So the G1 was the best choice for me from what was available right now. So far 
I'm happy, even though I completely understand the G1 was more of an 
experiment than anything else, even though the enter key is not as accessible 
as the rest of the keys.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Quoting style on HTC Dream

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:25:31 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> My new! improved! shiny! Android phone has a Gmail app. It's nice to
> use but it's quoting style is horrible and looks thusly:

Try K9-Mail, a proper POP/IMAP mailer that now supports push mail (the
only reason I stuck with the GMail app for the past year).


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Orcs aren't all that bad... if you have plenty of ketchup.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Quoting style on HTC Dream

[Alan McKinnon]

On Friday 13 November 2009 14:49:02 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:25:31 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > My new! improved! shiny! Android phone has a Gmail app. It's nice to
> > use but it's quoting style is horrible and looks thusly:
> 
> Try K9-Mail, a proper POP/IMAP mailer that now supports push mail (the
> only reason I stuck with the GMail app for the past year).
> 


Good link, thanks  :-)

I downloaded it and so far it looks OK, but need to play more. First thing I 
need to figure out is how to make it refresh the inbox when, and only when, I 
click the button myself. I don't quite do this "beep at me every time there's 
a new email" thing - I already have several notebooks for that :-)


-- 

alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Quoting style on HTC Dream

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:39:20 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > Try K9-Mail, a proper POP/IMAP mailer that now supports push mail (the
> > only reason I stuck with the GMail app for the past year).

> Good link, thanks  :-)
> 
> I downloaded it and so far it looks OK, but need to play more. First
> thing I need to figure out is how to make it refresh the inbox when,
> and only when, I click the button myself. I don't quite do this "beep
> at me every time there's a new email" thing - I already have several
> notebooks for that :-)

I don't do the beep thing either, I don't want it waking me up in the
middle of the night just to let me know a phishing mail made it past my
spam filter, I just have the status bar notification.

You can get what you want in the account settings, set the check
frequency to never and the folder push mode to None.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

All Scottish food is based on a dare.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Quoting style on HTC Dream

[felix]

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 08:39:20PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> I downloaded it and so far it looks OK, but need to play more. First thing I 
> need to figure out is how to make it refresh the inbox when, and only when, I 
> click the button myself. I don't quite do this "beep at me every time there's 
> a new email" thing - I already have several notebooks for that :-)

Click the MENU button and one of the choices is Check mail.

-- 
            ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
     Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & rocket surgeon / felix@crowfix.com
  GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E  6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933
I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o