[gentoo-user] [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[gentoo-user] [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[Harry Putnam]

I guess that could be seen as a kind of spam.  I hope not.

Further, so far as googling this kind of help or info.  There is so
damn much out there.. its too hard to tell what is good or even real.

So here it is:

I have a recently dead Intel P4 winxp box, I've got it completely
stipped dowm, mobo out etc.  Its a mid tower antex box.. nice size and
fairly easy to work inside of.  For me that is really important
because I spent my life working with big heavy stuff for 35 yrs.

With it all in pieces already, I thought I might try building it
backup up with some more recent components..

I thought maybe a mobo bundle would be a good starting place.

Anyway, I need some help digging through all the balony on line about
the newer mobos.

  Here is an example of one possibility:
  http://www.directron.com/fall-motherboard-combo-4.html

I'm wondering if that really is a deal or just a fake come-on and the
price is like that all over.

Is there anyone here who is willing to correspond with me privately
about this project?  Maybe someone who can vouch for some of the more
recent equipment out there.

Since gmane obfuscates the email address on From line here it is:

  Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com>

I'd like to hear from someone who may know a bit about homebuilding a
computer.

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[walt]

On 11/05/2009 12:59 PM, Harry Putnam wrote:
> I guess that could be seen as a kind of spam.  I hope not.
> 
> Further, so far as googling this kind of help or info.  There is so
> damn much out there.. its too hard to tell what is good or even real.
> 
> So here it is:
> 
> I have a recently dead Intel P4 winxp box, I've got it completely
> stipped dowm, mobo out etc.  Its a mid tower antex box.. nice size and
> fairly easy to work inside of.

One caution there -- newer computer hardware demands a great deal of
power, and older power supplies may not be up to the task. Don't try
to squeak by with a wimpy power supply.

> 
> I thought maybe a mobo bundle would be a good starting place...

I've been building my own for years. and the choice of motherboard
has always been easy:  I buy the mobo and CPU on sale that day at
Fry's ;o)  (Do you know Fry's?)  But I buy the best RAM available
because it's worth the few extra bucks.

The latest and greatest new hardware may not be supported by any
open source OS, so you may not want the latest hot mobo. I'd say
avoid any mobo less that a year or so old.  (The ones on sale at
Fry's meet than criterion perfectly, as you'd expect.)

I'm sure more advice will be forthcoming :o)

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[Harry Putnam]

walt <w41ter@gmail.com> writes:

> One caution there -- newer computer hardware demands a great deal of
> power, and older power supplies may not be up to the task. Don't try
> to squeak by with a wimpy power supply.
>
>> 
>> I thought maybe a mobo bundle would be a good starting place...
>
> I've been building my own for years. and the choice of motherboard
> has always been easy:  I buy the mobo and CPU on sale that day at
> Fry's ;o)  (Do you know Fry's?)  But I buy the best RAM available
> because it's worth the few extra bucks.

Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> writes:

[...]

> that bundle looks ok, but you will need a new psu.
> And with ok I mean the hardware, not the price.

I kind of overpowered the original setup back when I bought it,
somewhere like 200[12].  It's an antec 430 w.  But that is probably
wimpy by now.  Back then it was well above the standard stuff, which
were more like 230 w. 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Freitag 06 November 2009, Harry Putnam wrote:
> walt <w41ter@gmail.com> writes:
> > One caution there -- newer computer hardware demands a great deal of
> > power, and older power supplies may not be up to the task. Don't try
> > to squeak by with a wimpy power supply.
> >
> >> I thought maybe a mobo bundle would be a good starting place...
> >
> > I've been building my own for years. and the choice of motherboard
> > has always been easy:  I buy the mobo and CPU on sale that day at
> > Fry's ;o)  (Do you know Fry's?)  But I buy the best RAM available
> > because it's worth the few extra bucks.
> 
> Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> writes:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > that bundle looks ok, but you will need a new psu.
> > And with ok I mean the hardware, not the price.
> 
> I kind of overpowered the original setup back when I bought it,
> somewhere like 200[12].  It's an antec 430 w.  But that is probably
> wimpy by now.  Back then it was well above the standard stuff, which
> were more like 230 w.
> 

430W should be ok, The problem is that they are the wrong 430W. Back then most 
load was on 3.3V and 5V. Today PSUs have several 12V 'lines' just because the 
load on 12V is so huge. Also I am not sure that your old PSU has all the 
connectors needed (24 pin ATX, 4/8pin P8). 

So, while the output will be enough (I have a 955, 8gb ram, a 3870, several 
harddisks and a 450W PSU. Some time ago I measured loads with 4gb and a X2 
6000 which has the same TDP. Max load was ~300W - and I had to do stupid stuff 
to reach that. Max load compiling/gaming was around 200W), it is not the kind 
the system needs. No mobo today cares about 30A on 5V. But they want as many 
Ampere on 12V as possible.

So, you should think about a nice, non-cheap 450-500W psu.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[Denis]

I always build my own PC, and over the years I used a few power
supplies made by PC Power and Cooling
(http://www.pcpower.com/index.html).  They make a superb product, and
I never had a problem with it - quality and reliability.  I used that
for my main Core 2 Duo computing machine at work, and I use it for my
water-cooled rig at home that has the famously hot and power-hungry
dual P4 Extreme Edition.  I used Antec PSUs also, but those little
fans in those quit on me a couple times, and I wasn't thrilled about
that.

As far as motherboards, I've had great luck with Intel boards and will
recommend them over all others.  They come well-packaged,
well-explained, seem to be well-built, well-supported in Linux and
never gave me any trouble over the years.  Please don't flame me for
voicing this opinion - I am just saying what worked well for me.  My
main objective in building a computer has been "stable performance",
and that's what I've been getting with Intel.

I think you can definitely reuse your Antec case, but I must echo
Volker's suggestion about a new power supply, unless yours is very
recent.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Freitag 06 November 2009, Denis wrote:
> I always build my own PC, and over the years I used a few power
> supplies made by PC Power and Cooling
> (http://www.pcpower.com/index.html).  They make a superb product, and
> I never had a problem with it - quality and reliability.  I used that
> for my main Core 2 Duo computing machine at work, and I use it for my
> water-cooled rig at home that has the famously hot and power-hungry
> dual P4 Extreme Edition.  I used Antec PSUs also, but those little
> fans in those quit on me a couple times, and I wasn't thrilled about
> that.
> 
> As far as motherboards, I've had great luck with Intel boards and will
> recommend them over all others.  They come well-packaged,
> well-explained, seem to be well-built, well-supported in Linux and
> never gave me any trouble over the years.  Please don't flame me for
> voicing this opinion - I am just saying what worked well for me.  My
> main objective in building a computer has been "stable performance",
> and that's what I've been getting with Intel.
> 
> I think you can definitely reuse your Antec case, but I must echo
> Volker's suggestion about a new power supply, unless yours is very
> recent.
> 

or you can save a lot of money and buy Asus, since asus is producing intel's 
mobos.

Also, there are no intel boards for AMD CPUs.

Hmm... and PcPower...

http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3329&p=3

>Opening the unit reveals a typical Seasonic design, but this time the 
heatsinks are arranged to better accommodate the 80mm fan setup. Seasonic 
normally cools this design with a 120mm fan blowing at the top of the 
heatsinks, so the heatsinks benefit in that case from a shape that will allow 
air to pass through vertically. This time the air comes from the sides and the 
back so they can be closed to the top.

so PcPower is just selling Seasonic devices (like a lot of other brands). 

Not saying that Seasonic is bad. Just - why not buy the original?

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[Harry Putnam]

Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> writes:

>> I kind of overpowered the original setup back when I bought it,
>> somewhere like 200[12].  It's an antec 430 w.  But that is probably
>> wimpy by now.  Back then it was well above the standard stuff, which
>> were more like 230 w.
>> 
>
> 430W should be ok, The problem is that they are the wrong 430W. Back then most 
> load was on 3.3V and 5V. Today PSUs have several 12V 'lines' just because the 
> load on 12V is so huge. Also I am not sure that your old PSU has all the 
> connectors needed (24 pin ATX, 4/8pin P8). 
>
> So, while the output will be enough (I have a 955, 8gb ram, a 3870, several 
> harddisks and a 450W PSU. Some time ago I measured loads with 4gb and a X2 
> 6000 which has the same TDP. Max load was ~300W - and I had to do stupid stuff 
> to reach that. Max load compiling/gaming was around 200W), it is not the kind 
> the system needs. No mobo today cares about 30A on 5V. But they want as many 
> Ampere on 12V as possible.
>
> So, you should think about a nice, non-cheap 450-500W psu.

Thanks Volker,
Good to know the details about the newer PSUs

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Donnerstag 05 November 2009, Harry Putnam wrote:
> I guess that could be seen as a kind of spam.  I hope not.
> 
> Further, so far as googling this kind of help or info.  There is so
> damn much out there.. its too hard to tell what is good or even real.
> 
> So here it is:
> 
> I have a recently dead Intel P4 winxp box, I've got it completely
> stipped dowm, mobo out etc.  Its a mid tower antex box.. nice size and
> fairly easy to work inside of.  For me that is really important
> because I spent my life working with big heavy stuff for 35 yrs.
> 
> With it all in pieces already, I thought I might try building it
> backup up with some more recent components..
> 
> I thought maybe a mobo bundle would be a good starting place.
> 
> Anyway, I need some help digging through all the balony on line about
> the newer mobos.
> 
>   Here is an example of one possibility:
>   http://www.directron.com/fall-motherboard-combo-4.html
> 
> I'm wondering if that really is a deal or just a fake come-on and the
> price is like that all over.
> 
> Is there anyone here who is willing to correspond with me privately
> about this project?  Maybe someone who can vouch for some of the more
> recent equipment out there.
> 
> Since gmane obfuscates the email address on From line here it is:
> 
>   Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com>
> 
> I'd like to hear from someone who may know a bit about homebuilding a
> computer.
> 

that bundle looks ok, but you will need a new psu.
And with ok I mean the hardware, not the price.

You might get away a lot cheaper buying the same parts seperately.

Oh and as a cooler - a Scythe Shuriken 
fan2:        421 RPM  (min =    0 RPM, div = 32
temp2:       +51.5°C

is not a bad choice. Especially since the temp never hits 60°C.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Donnerstag 05 November 2009, Harry Putnam wrote:
>   
>> I guess that could be seen as a kind of spam.  I hope not.
>>
>> Further, so far as googling this kind of help or info.  There is so
>> damn much out there.. its too hard to tell what is good or even real.
>>
>> So here it is:
>>
>> I have a recently dead Intel P4 winxp box, I've got it completely
>> stipped dowm, mobo out etc.  Its a mid tower antex box.. nice size and
>> fairly easy to work inside of.  For me that is really important
>> because I spent my life working with big heavy stuff for 35 yrs.
>>
>> With it all in pieces already, I thought I might try building it
>> backup up with some more recent components..
>>
>> I thought maybe a mobo bundle would be a good starting place.
>>
>> Anyway, I need some help digging through all the balony on line about
>> the newer mobos.
>>
>>   Here is an example of one possibility:
>>   http://www.directron.com/fall-motherboard-combo-4.html
>>
>> I'm wondering if that really is a deal or just a fake come-on and the
>> price is like that all over.
>>
>> Is there anyone here who is willing to correspond with me privately
>> about this project?  Maybe someone who can vouch for some of the more
>> recent equipment out there.
>>
>> Since gmane obfuscates the email address on From line here it is:
>>
>>   Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com>
>>
>> I'd like to hear from someone who may know a bit about homebuilding a
>> computer.
>>
>>     
>
> that bundle looks ok, but you will need a new psu.
> And with ok I mean the hardware, not the price.
>
> You might get away a lot cheaper buying the same parts seperately.
>
> Oh and as a cooler - a Scythe Shuriken 
> fan2:        421 RPM  (min =    0 RPM, div = 32
> temp2:       +51.5°C
>
> is not a bad choice. Especially since the temp never hits 60°C.
>
>
>   
[OT]
Why does everyone else have a CPU that is so much hotter than mine. 
Mine has never been over 40C or about 100F and I run folding with my rig
in my bedroom.  Even back when this rig was new and people had rigs
close to mine, I still ran cooler.  I'm even air cooled.  Water and
puters make me nervous.
[/OT]

I would use froogle.com to search for deals.  Some combo deals can save
you money, some don't.  You just have to add them up and compare.  I
would check into newegg.com too.  They have some good deals.

I do agree with the comments about power supplies tho.  I would also not
buy some cheapo power supply either.  Get a good name brand one that can
stand up or you will be looking for another combo.  A weak power supply
can cause all kinds of issues.

I built my own to so best of luck. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[Harry Putnam]

Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> writes:

> [OT]
> Why does everyone else have a CPU that is so much hotter than mine. 
> Mine has never been over 40C or about 100F and I run folding with my rig
> in my bedroom.  Even back when this rig was new and people had rigs
> close to mine, I still ran cooler.  I'm even air cooled.  Water and
> puters make me nervous.
> [/OT]

I'd be mighty suspicious of a incorrect sensor.  There is really no
way the cpu itself is never over 102.  Assuming, that is, we're not
talking about a `vic-20', or `commodore 64'. and I would not be surprised
if those cpus didn't go over 100.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[Dale]

Harry Putnam wrote:
> Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> writes:
>
>   
>> [OT]
>> Why does everyone else have a CPU that is so much hotter than mine. 
>> Mine has never been over 40C or about 100F and I run folding with my rig
>> in my bedroom.  Even back when this rig was new and people had rigs
>> close to mine, I still ran cooler.  I'm even air cooled.  Water and
>> puters make me nervous.
>> [/OT]
>>     
>
> I'd be mighty suspicious of a incorrect sensor.  There is really no
> way the cpu itself is never over 102.  Assuming, that is, we're not
> talking about a `vic-20', or `commodore 64'. and I would not be surprised
> if those cpus didn't go over 100.
>
>   

This is a Abit NF7 v2.0 mobo with a AMD 2500+ CPU.  I have even checked
the BIOS temps and they are very close, if not a little lower, than what
Gkrellm reports.  From what I have found with google, no one has
reported them to have errors.  I figure the only reason the BIOS may be
a little lower is that it is just starting up. 

I don't have any reason not to think they are correct.  The temps change
with load and a change in room temp.  I have seen it get close to 100F
when I forgot to leave the A/C on one time.  I do have a large CPU
cooler tho.  It's a ThermalTake Volcano 12 with the fans set to adjust
with the temps. 


Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[Alan McKinnon]

On Friday 06 November 2009 17:57:09 Dale wrote:
> Harry Putnam wrote:
> > Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> writes:
> >> [OT]
> >> Why does everyone else have a CPU that is so much hotter than 
mine.
> >> Mine has never been over 40C or about 100F and I run folding 
with my rig
> >> in my bedroom.  Even back when this rig was new and people had 
rigs
> >> close to mine, I still ran cooler.  I'm even air cooled.  Water 
and
> >> puters make me nervous.
> >> [/OT]
> >
> > I'd be mighty suspicious of a incorrect sensor.  There is really 
no
> > way the cpu itself is never over 102.  Assuming, that is, we're 
not
> > talking about a `vic-20', or `commodore 64'. and I would not be 
surprised
> > if those cpus didn't go over 100.
> 
> This is a Abit NF7 v2.0 mobo with a AMD 2500+ CPU.  I have even 
checked
> the BIOS temps and they are very close, if not a little lower, 
than what
> Gkrellm reports.  From what I have found with google, no one has
> reported them to have errors.  I figure the only reason the BIOS 
may be
> a little lower is that it is just starting up.
> 
> I don't have any reason not to think they are correct.  The temps 
change
> with load and a change in room temp.  I have seen it get close to 
100F
> when I forgot to leave the A/C on one time.  I do have a large CPU
> cooler tho.  It's a ThermalTake Volcano 12 with the fans set to 
adjust
> with the temps.

The various CPU temp sensors do measure something the the way they 
rise and fall often correlates to the actual temperature, but not to 
a temperature scale. 

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Homebuilt Mobo bundles

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Friday 06 November 2009 17:57:09 Dale wrote:
>   
>> Harry Putnam wrote:
>>     
>>> Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> writes:
>>>       
>>>> [OT]
>>>> Why does everyone else have a CPU that is so much hotter than 
>>>>         
> mine.
>   
>>>> Mine has never been over 40C or about 100F and I run folding 
>>>>         
> with my rig
>   
>>>> in my bedroom.  Even back when this rig was new and people had 
>>>>         
> rigs
>   
>>>> close to mine, I still ran cooler.  I'm even air cooled.  Water 
>>>>         
> and
>   
>>>> puters make me nervous.
>>>> [/OT]
>>>>         
>>> I'd be mighty suspicious of a incorrect sensor.  There is really 
>>>       
> no
>   
>>> way the cpu itself is never over 102.  Assuming, that is, we're 
>>>       
> not
>   
>>> talking about a `vic-20', or `commodore 64'. and I would not be 
>>>       
> surprised
>   
>>> if those cpus didn't go over 100.
>>>       
>> This is a Abit NF7 v2.0 mobo with a AMD 2500+ CPU.  I have even 
>>     
> checked
>   
>> the BIOS temps and they are very close, if not a little lower, 
>>     
> than what
>   
>> Gkrellm reports.  From what I have found with google, no one has
>> reported them to have errors.  I figure the only reason the BIOS 
>>     
> may be
>   
>> a little lower is that it is just starting up.
>>
>> I don't have any reason not to think they are correct.  The temps 
>>     
> change
>   
>> with load and a change in room temp.  I have seen it get close to 
>>     
> 100F
>   
>> when I forgot to leave the A/C on one time.  I do have a large CPU
>> cooler tho.  It's a ThermalTake Volcano 12 with the fans set to 
>>     
> adjust
>   
>> with the temps.
>>     
>
> The various CPU temp sensors do measure something the the way they 
> rise and fall often correlates to the actual temperature, but not to 
> a temperature scale. 
>
>   

I could pull out my IR temp sensor.  See what it says.  It's accurate to
within 1F or so.

Dale

:-)  :-)