[gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Philip Webb]

I've added to a number of KDE bugs relating to problems with 4.3.1 .

KDE bug 165355 : Konsole doesn't respect the '--geometry' parameter.

KDE bug 190843 (also 194716) : Gwenview has no option to show hidden files.

KDE bug 190216 : Gwenview has no option 'rename'; 'move' is inadequate.

KDE bug 182361 : Gwenview refuses to display a thumbnail
                 when the extension doesn't match the image type;
                 the problem is in Qt, but still no action from them.

KDE bug 196858 : Kmahjongg doesn't show grid of removed tiles.

KDE bug 167910 : Ksokoban hasn't been ported to KDE 4 .

KDE bug 184088 : 'worldclock' plasmoid doesn't work in Marble.
                 It is suggested this is a Gentoo failure:
                 before I submit a Gentoo bug, does anyone have info ?

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Alex Schuster]

Philip Webb writes:

> I've added to a number of KDE bugs relating to problems with 4.3.1 .

Thanks for doing so! Hopefully this will improve KDE.

I also have a huuuge list of KDE bugs, but I am still at 4.2, and I hope at 
least some of them have been fixed already. But I will wait with the update 
until I have some time, because normally I need my PC with KDE running, and 
I fear something will go wrong while updating. I will report those bugs that 
are still happening with 4.3.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Dienstag 29 September 2009, Alex Schuster wrote:
> Philip Webb writes:
> > I've added to a number of KDE bugs relating to problems with 4.3.1 .
> 
> Thanks for doing so! Hopefully this will improve KDE.
> 
> I also have a huuuge list of KDE bugs, but I am still at 4.2, and I hope at
> least some of them have been fixed already. But I will wait with the update
> until I have some time, because normally I need my PC with KDE running, and
> I fear something will go wrong while updating. I will report those bugs
>  that are still happening with 4.3.
> 
> 	Wonko
> 

quickpkg. Update goes wrong. Go back with --usepgk

Makes downgrades quick and painless.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Alex Schuster]

Volker Armin Hemmann writes:

> On Dienstag 29 September 2009, Alex Schuster wrote:
> > Philip Webb writes:
> > > I've added to a number of KDE bugs relating to problems with 4.3.1 .
> >
> > Thanks for doing so! Hopefully this will improve KDE.
> >
> > I also have a huuuge list of KDE bugs, but I am still at 4.2, and I
> > hope at least some of them have been fixed already. But I will wait
> > with the update until I have some time, because normally I need my PC
> > with KDE running, and I fear something will go wrong while updating. I
> > will report those bugs that are still happening with 4.3.

> quickpkg. Update goes wrong. Go back with --usepgk
>
> Makes downgrades quick and painless.

Right. Although this will be a huge list of packages, as I have to remove 
all of KDE 4.2 first because of removing the kdeprefix use flag.

And then... some days ago I wanted to try ati-drivers-9.8, and had to 
upgrade 6 packages, xorg-1.6 and such. I quickpkg'd them, tried the new 
drivers (no success of course), downgraded with --usepkg, and still I cannot 
get it to work again. I am using the radeon drivers for now until I get some 
time to figure this out.

	Wonko

xorg-server update (was: Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update)

[Alex Schuster]

Alex Schuster writes:

> And then... some days ago I wanted to try ati-drivers-9.8, and had to
> upgrade 6 packages, xorg-1.6 and such. I quickpkg'd them, tried the new
> drivers (no success of course), downgraded with --usepkg, and still I
> cannot get it to work again. I am using the radeon drivers for now until
> I get some time to figure this out.

Now I took some time and upgraded to xorg-server-1.6.3.901-r2 again. At 
first, X started fine, but I had no keyboard and mouse. As before, which I 
workarounded by compiling xorg-server without hal. It turned out I had to 
re-compile xf86-input-evdev. Had forgotten this, although it is in the 
'qlist -I -C x11-drivers/' output and the xorg-server ebuild told me to 
rebuild all this.
Now, the good thing is that X is running, I have mouse and keyboard. German 
keyboard, configured by hal, not directly in xorg.conf. Hooray. The bad 
thing is that I only get a blank screen, regardless of the driver (fglrx, 
radeonhd, radeon, vesa, ati). With one driver I was even able to change the 
screen resolution vial Ctrl-Alt-+, my monitor showed this, but it still was 
blank. I also tried xorg-server-1.6.4, with the same result.

Now I went back to xorg-server-1.5.3-r7, re-compiled everything X related, 
and at least it is working again.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Philip Webb]

090929 Alex Schuster wrote:
> I also have a huuuge list of KDE bugs, but I am still at 4.2
> and I hope at least some of them have been fixed already.
> But I will wait with the update until I have some time,
> because normally I need my PC with KDE running
> and I fear something will go wrong while updating.

KDE 4.3.1 is an enormous improvement over 4.2.1 :
the apps are stable & basic functions are available.
Responses in KDE Bugzilla suggest their devs want to satisfy users:
they tend to be "We haven't got there yet but are working on it"
rather than "Forget it, get used to it, it's been dropped".
The one exception is Konsole, which is a shadow of 3.5.10 ,
so that I've adopted Xterm & the Xfce Terminal for some jobs.
NB I am not using the desktop, which I haven't installed,
but such apps as Gwenview, Okular, Konqueror, games;
I found Fluxbox even better for my needs that the KDE 3.5.10 desktop.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Paul Hartman]

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:04 AM, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> The one exception is Konsole, which is a shadow of 3.5.10 ,

In what ways?

According to changelog the KDE4 version of Konsole has added automatic
tab titles (shows current directory), split screen mode, a performance
increase on scrolling large terminals, better profile setup dialogs,
runs all konsole sessions from a single-process, can use personalized
profile in embedded konsoles, easy SSH session bookmarking, much
improved search, real transparency, new themes, a  command to open
your GUI file manager in the current directory, enable mouse-wheel to
scroll programs that don't naturally support it (like less), etc.

What's missing from the 3.x series?

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Philip Webb]

090929 Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:04 AM, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>> The one exception is Konsole, which is a shadow of 3.5.10 ,
> According to changelog the KDE4 version of Konsole has added :

Quick reactions, further advice welcome :

> automatic tab titles (shows current directory) -- trivial
> split screen mode -- yes, mb useful, but similar to tabs
> performance increase on scrolling large terminals -- don't need it
> better profile set-up dialogs -- yes, but they still don't work properly
> runs all Konsole sessions from a single process -- useful for what ?
> can use personalized profile in embedded Konsoles -- don't need it
> easy SSH session bookmarking -- can't find it
> much improved search -- no sign of it (present in 3.5.10)
> real transparency -- don't need it
> new themes -- don't need them (I use Fluxbox)
> open your GUI file manager in the current directory -- trivial
> mouse-wheel scrolls pgms that don't naturally support it (eg Less) -- yes

So yes, a couple of small items I mt use occasionally.

> What's missing from the 3.x series ?

A much longer list of schemas, start root console, search (see above),
set window geometry (inside Konsole or when starting it: see my bug list).

I am hopeful the KDE devs will restore more with 4.4.1 & 4.5.1 ,
but it hasn't happened yet.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Mittwoch 30 September 2009, Philip Webb wrote:
> 090929 Paul Hartman wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:04 AM, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> >> The one exception is Konsole, which is a shadow of 3.5.10 ,
> >
> > According to changelog the KDE4 version of Konsole has added :
> 
> Quick reactions, further advice welcome :
> > automatic tab titles (shows current directory) -- trivial

and very usefull

> > split screen mode -- yes, mb useful, but similar to tabs

no.

> > performance increase on scrolling large terminals -- don't need it

yes, you need it. You don't realize you need it. Slow scrolling has a lot of 
drawbacks not just 'it is not as fast as I want' but also 'it is not as fast 
as the process dumping info wants'

> > runs all Konsole sessions from a single process -- useful for what ?

memory consumption? 

> > can use personalized profile in embedded Konsoles -- don't need it

you maybe not.

> > easy SSH session bookmarking -- can't find it

log in via ssh, click on 'bookmarks' click on 'add bookmarks'. You are done 
(or not, but in that case, edit bookmarks, you are done).

> > much improved search -- no sign of it (present in 3.5.10)

emm - no

> > real transparency -- don't need it

you maybe not. But a lot of people like it.

> > new themes -- don't need them (I use Fluxbox)

konsole themes, not window manager themes.

> > open your GUI file manager in the current directory -- trivial

and still not done by a lot of terminals.

Oh, and opening the webbrower when right click 'open' on a web adress....

> 
> A much longer list of schemas, start root console, search (see above),

search? what search is missing?

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 05:45:34 +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:

> > > split screen mode -- yes, mb useful, but similar to tabs  
> 
> no.

I can't see the point of this feature. If it were two terminals side by
side, so ypou could run a command in one while tailing a log file in
the other, it would be extremely handy, especially with SSH, but it just
shows the same output twice.

Or am I doing something stupid?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

He's so cool, he could get frostbite from masturbating.

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Philip Webb]

090930 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> 090930 Philip Webb wrote:
>> split screen mode -- yes, mb useful, but similar to tabs  
> I can't see the point of this: it just shows the same output twice.
> If it were two terminals side by side,
> so you could run a command in one while tailing a log file in the other,
> it would be extremely handy, especially with SSH
> Or am I doing something stupid?

You will get what you want, if you have  2  tabs open;
you can see multiple tabs by splitting the window more than once.
So I will add this feature to my 'yes' column, making  3  in all (smile).

However, the "help" -- hiding away at the far R of the menubar (ugh!) --
doesn't explain it correctly :

  Splits all the tabs into left and right views 
  Any output on one view is duplicated in the other view.

Yet another gripe re KDE 4 is the very scanty help available.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 05:39:53 -0400, Philip Webb wrote:

> You will get what you want, if you have  2  tabs open;
> you can see multiple tabs by splitting the window more than once.
> So I will add this feature to my 'yes' column, making  3  in all
> (smile).

Aha, I get it now. Split and then change tab on one view. That makes
sense.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Electricians DO IT until it Hz...

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 30.09.2009 11:58, schrieb Neil Bothwick:

> Aha, I get it now. Split and then change tab on one view. That makes
> sense.

It is a nice feature with a little annoying bug sticked to it.
I have the "open new tab" and "close tab" buttons active in the tabbar.

I open two tabs in left/right-split-mode then only the left side has the
buttons. If I now close the left side again the buttons are gone for
good. I have to open the profile-settings, toggle the option off and on
to get them back.
If that can be confirmed I open a bug for it.

Greetings

Sebastian Beßler

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Philip Webb]

090930 Sebastian Beßler commented on Konsole split view + tabs :
> It is a nice feature with a little annoying bug sticked to it.
> I have the "open new tab" and "close tab" buttons active in the tabbar.
> I open two tabs in split-mode then only the left side has the buttons.
> If I now close the left side again the buttons are gone for good.
> I have to open the profile-settings, toggle the option off and on
> to get them back.  If that can be confirmed I open a bug for it.

Yes, I noticed that too.  Also when you exit split mode, it leaves a tab
& there's no way to hide the tab bar again.  They need bug reports
& do seem to react sensibly, if slowly, to them.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Mittwoch 30 September 2009, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 05:45:34 +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > > > split screen mode -- yes, mb useful, but similar to tabs
> >
> > no.
> 
> I can't see the point of this feature. If it were two terminals side by
> side, so ypou could run a command in one while tailing a log file in
> the other, it would be extremely handy, especially with SSH, but it just
> shows the same output twice.
> 
> Or am I doing something stupid?
> 

no and yes. The two show the same output. But if you have several tabs and you 
let something big running in one of them you can split it, switch to another 
tab and watch whatever goes on. You can also do side-by-side stuff that way.

Could be done better, but still usefull and more than just tabs.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Philip Webb]

090930 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Mittwoch 30 September 2009, Philip Webb wrote:
>> easy SSH session bookmarking -- can't find it
> log in via ssh, click on 'bookmarks' click on 'add bookmarks'.

Yes indeed ! -- add another 'yes', making  4 .

>> new themes -- don't need them (I use Fluxbox)
> Konsole themes, not window manager themes.

How do I find them ?

> opening the webbrower when right click 'open' on a web address....

Yes again ! -- it opens Konqueror: is there any way to change that ?

So that makes  5  useful features added (with others dropped for now).
Thanks for your helpful response.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 30.09.2009 11:57, schrieb Philip Webb:
> Yes again ! -- it opens Konqueror: is there any way to change that ?

Change it in Systemsettings. I use konsole-4.3.1 with kde-3.5.10 and
after the change it opens firefox for me.

Greetings

Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[daid kahl]

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>
> Change it in Systemsettings. I use konsole-4.3.1 with kde-3.5.10 and
> after the change it opens firefox for me.
>
>
What all do you unmask for this?  I'm still kicking around 3.5.10, but I
wouldn't mind some updated apps, and some of the new Konsole features sound
useful (which is ironic, since they were laid out as to why there aren't
differences from 3.5.10...)

Of course I wouldn't mind Okular either, but I think this needs the full
kde4 libraries.

~daid

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 01.10.2009 08:27, schrieb daid kahl:

> What all do you unmask for this?  I'm still kicking around 3.5.10, but I
> wouldn't mind some updated apps, and some of the new Konsole features sound
> useful (which is ironic, since they were laid out as to why there aren't
> differences from 3.5.10...)

I don't know what was exactly needed to unmask because I go ~amd64 since
some time now. To prevent kde4 to install full I have it hard masked in
package.mask and use autounmask to unmask the parts I want to use. You
could use autounmask -p kde-base/konsole-4.3.1-r1 to see what would be
unmasked.

> Of course I wouldn't mind Okular either, but I think this needs the full
> kde4 libraries.

I use Okular here and it works really fine.
Ok, I have 8GB RAM so the additional libs from kde4 don't hurt here.

Greetings

Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Jesús Guerrero]

On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 15:27:47 +0900, daid kahl <daidxor@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Change it in Systemsettings. I use konsole-4.3.1 with kde-3.5.10 and
>> after the change it opens firefox for me.
>>
>>
> What all do you unmask for this?  I'm still kicking around 3.5.10, but I
> wouldn't mind some updated apps, and some of the new Konsole features
sound
> useful (which is ironic, since they were laid out as to why there aren't
> differences from 3.5.10...)
> 
> Of course I wouldn't mind Okular either, but I think this needs the full
> kde4 libraries.

I don't know if I understand you well, but either way you'll need kdelibs
for *any* kde package, konsole is no exception. It's perfectly possible to
have 3.x and 4.x installed alongside, but if you use both at the same time
it will of course cause an extra "waste" of ram. There's no work around for
that because you will have to load the run time stuff for both kde 3.x and
4.x, but nothing that a modern desktop machine should be worried about.

You can start by keywording kdelibs and konsole for your ~arch, then try
to emerge and go from there.
-- 
Jesús Guerrero

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Mittwoch 30 September 2009, Philip Webb wrote:
> 090930 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > On Mittwoch 30 September 2009, Philip Webb wrote:
> >> easy SSH session bookmarking -- can't find it
> >
> > log in via ssh, click on 'bookmarks' click on 'add bookmarks'.
> 
> Yes indeed ! -- add another 'yes', making  4 .
> 
> >> new themes -- don't need them (I use Fluxbox)
> >
> > Konsole themes, not window manager themes.
> 
> How do I find them ?

Settings ---> change current profile

or whatever it is called in english. There you can create&set colour schemes, 
font, font size, font antialising, transparency.

> 
> > opening the webbrower when right click 'open' on a web address....
> 
> Yes again ! -- it opens Konqueror: is there any way to change that ?

systemsettings, standard components, web browser

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Roy Wright]

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On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Philip Webb wrote:

> 090929 Paul Hartman wrote:
>
>> What's missing from the 3.x series ?
>
> A much longer list of schemas, start root console, search (see above),
> set window geometry (inside Konsole or when starting it: see my bug  
> list).

Starting a root (or any other) console is easy.  Use Manage Profiles  
to create the profile.  You can then open it via File menu or  
Settings, Change Profile menu.  To get the profile button in the  
bottom left corner, again use Manage Profiles, Tabs, and enable "Show  
'New Tab' and 'Close Tab' buttons in tab bar".

Note, when defining a root console, for the command, use either "/bin/ 
su" or "/bin/sudo -i" or whatever your system needs.

Next install the "Konsole Profiles" widget where ever it is convenient  
(desktop, panel).

Have fun,
Roy


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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Sebastian Beßler]

Am 30.09.2009 06:49, schrieb Roy Wright:

> Next install the "Konsole Profiles" widget where ever it is convenient
> (desktop, panel).

You can only install this widget when running kde 4.x as DE. Philip
wrote more then one time that he uses Fluxbox not KDE.

That is the main problem that I have with kde 4.x. More and more can one
only use the apps when using the full KDE. Features are stripped from
the app and put into widgets that only work on KDE.
I really hate that.

Greetings

Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Mittwoch 30 September 2009, Sebastian Beßler wrote:
> Am 30.09.2009 06:49, schrieb Roy Wright:
> > Next install the "Konsole Profiles" widget where ever it is convenient
> > (desktop, panel).
> 
> You can only install this widget when running kde 4.x as DE. Philip
> wrote more then one time that he uses Fluxbox not KDE.
> 
> That is the main problem that I have with kde 4.x. More and more can one
> only use the apps when using the full KDE. Features are stripped from
> the app and put into widgets that only work on KDE.
> I really hate that.

except you are wrong here. The konsole profiles widget is an additional 
feature, not a replacement. Just create the profiles you want and you can 
easily choose with a single mouse click in konsole.

Also plasma-desktop does not need a full blown kde or even kwin.

KDE is happily running with every ICCCM /EWMH adhering windowmanager.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Philip Webb]

090929 Roy Wright wrote:
> On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
>> What's missing from the 3.x series ?
>> ... start root console ...
> Starting a root (or any other) console is easy.
> Use Manage Profiles to create the profile ...

But it's already there waiting for you in Konsole 3.5.10 .

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4 bugs update

[Paul Hartman]

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> 090929 Paul Hartman wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:04 AM, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>>> The one exception is Konsole, which is a shadow of 3.5.10 ,
>> According to changelog the KDE4 version of Konsole has added :
>
> Quick reactions, further advice welcome :
>
>> automatic tab titles (shows current directory) -- trivial
>> split screen mode -- yes, mb useful, but similar to tabs
>> performance increase on scrolling large terminals -- don't need it
>> better profile set-up dialogs -- yes, but they still don't work properly
>> runs all Konsole sessions from a single process -- useful for what ?
>> can use personalized profile in embedded Konsoles -- don't need it
>> easy SSH session bookmarking -- can't find it
>> much improved search -- no sign of it (present in 3.5.10)
>> real transparency -- don't need it
>> new themes -- don't need them (I use Fluxbox)
>> open your GUI file manager in the current directory -- trivial
>> mouse-wheel scrolls pgms that don't naturally support it (eg Less) -- yes
>
> So yes, a couple of small items I mt use occasionally.
>
>> What's missing from the 3.x series ?
>
> A much longer list of schemas, start root console, search (see above),
> set window geometry (inside Konsole or when starting it: see my bug list).
>
> I am hopeful the KDE devs will restore more with 4.4.1 & 4.5.1 ,
> but it hasn't happened yet.

Hi,

Points well taken; I don't use the features you're missing and
honestly I don't use most of the new ones either. :)  "Open Browser
Here" is the most useful one to me (it even works in Midnight
Commander relative to which pane is currently active).

In re-reading my previous message to you in this thread I hope it
didn't seem confrontational to you, or if it led people to pile on,
that was not my intention at all. I was simply curious what was
missing since the few features I use seemed to have gone unchanged or
been improved. So my apologies in case you took it that way. Often
I'll write short, direct e-mails on these lists while I'm on a phone
call or doing other things and sometimes lack the forethought or
communication skills necessary to convey the
almost-certainly-always-good-spirited nature of my question. :)

Thanks
Paul