[gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[meino.cramer]

Hi,

 for a long time I used IceWM as my windowmanager since I dont
 want to mimicry other OSses (...) or want session management.
 One thing, which is a must-have of windowmanagers I want to use
 is the possibility to control the windowmanager nearly completly 
 with the keyboard (hotkeys configurable) which does *not* 
 imply "uncontrollable by mouse" ;)
 Furthermore I should not be a hana-bi or anything else eye-candy
 like (nothing against hana-bi as hana-bi!) -- most of the time
 I will use the windowmanager instead of only looking at it -- which
 does not imply: "black anmd white ugly ascii thingy".

 Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking for 
 a replacement which should 
 -- be widely configurable via ascii files
 -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
 -- be also useable with the mouse
 -- no eye-candy 
 -- not ugly
 -- NOT tiling
 -- FAST!
 
 I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
 what windowmanagers.

 Thank you very much in advance for any help!
 Best regards and have a nice weekend!
 Meino Cramer




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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Philip Webb]

090912 meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
> for a long time I used IceWM as my windowmanager
> since I dont want ... session management.  a must-have of windowmanagers
> is to control nearly completly with the keyboard
> Since IceWM seems to be in hibernation I am looking for a replacement
>   -- widely configurable via ascii files
>   -- as far as possible controllable by keyboard
>   -- also useable with the mouse
>   -- no eye-candy 
>   -- not ugly
>   -- NOT tiling
>   -- FAST!

Fluxbox is your WM !

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[meino.cramer]

Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> [09-09-12 16:50]:
> 090912 meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
> > for a long time I used IceWM as my windowmanager
> > since I dont want ... session management.  a must-have of windowmanagers
> > is to control nearly completly with the keyboard
> > Since IceWM seems to be in hibernation I am looking for a replacement
> >   -- widely configurable via ascii files
> >   -- as far as possible controllable by keyboard
> >   -- also useable with the mouse
> >   -- no eye-candy 
> >   -- not ugly
> >   -- NOT tiling
> >   -- FAST!
> 
> Fluxbox is your WM !
> 
> -- 
> ========================,,============================================
> SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
> ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
> TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
> 

:)

Yes!...SIR! :))))))

Just a few minutes ago I installed it and...well...it seems to fit my
needs mostly,,,as far as I can see in such a short time...

One thing I really miss (hopefully only based on the lack of
experience with the configuration of fluxbox):

In IceWM I can type ALT-TAB, which pops up the application menu (so far
I can use the key file in ~/.fluxbox to acchieve the same I think) and
type the first character of the application I want to start.
If it is the only application, it starts at once.
If it is not I either can hit <RETURN>, which starts the application
or press the character/key again to choose the second/third/and so on
application with that starting character.

Or in other words: Starting applications does not involve the mouse.

In/With fluxbox I again have to dive into submenus with the mouse to
find what I want and I was urged to /click/ (oh what a shame! ;O) X-} )
on something!  The last time I did /such a thing/ I was young,
unexperienced and full of dreams...now I am older and wiser and
forbid myself to use things like.....mice....or even to /CLICK/
on someting (very big winkey smileys included!)

Is it possible to mimicry that IceWM feature?

Keep hacking!
Your flux is boxing!
mcc

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Philip Webb]

090912 meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
> Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> [09-09-12 16:50]:
>> Fluxbox is your WM !
> Yes!
> In IceWM I can type ALT-TAB, which pops up the application menu
> Or in other words: Starting applications does not involve the mouse.
> In/With fluxbox I again have to dive into submenus with the mouse

You can navigate the menu via the arrow keys (up/down/right) or Return.
I have the menu assigned to Alt-Space to be available anywhere.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Mike Kazantsev]

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On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:38:28 +0200
meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:

> One thing I really miss (hopefully only based on the lack of
> experience with the configuration of fluxbox):
> 
> In IceWM I can type ALT-TAB, which pops up the application menu (so far
> I can use the key file in ~/.fluxbox to acchieve the same I think) and
> type the first character of the application I want to start.
> If it is the only application, it starts at once.
> If it is not I either can hit <RETURN>, which starts the application
> or press the character/key again to choose the second/third/and so on
> application with that starting character.
> 
> Or in other words: Starting applications does not involve the mouse.

You can use "fbrun" util, or some more advanced launcher app like that,
bet there should be more than one, and it doesn't seem to be a feat
closely related to WM.

-- 
Mike Kazantsev // fraggod.net

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Lars Gustäbel]

On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 03:40:56PM +0200, meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
>  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
>  what windowmanagers.

Hi!

I've been using fvwm2 (http://fvwm.org) for years now and am quite happy with
it. Although it may look old and strange at first (the default settings are
rather horrible IIRC), it is possible to configure every tiny detail of it
using config files. I am still sometimes amazed of what you can do with it.
The fvwm manpage has everything you need to know.
The complexity is also its main drawback: it took me several weeks to have
it the way I wanted it. fvwm is indeed rather complicated at first but that's
why it's so powerful. It is really flexible and you can still use all the
little gui tools out there from other window managers. One cool feature of fvwm
is that you can assign different window styles based on the application, e.g. I
have a graphical system monitor on my third desktop, that is started when I log
in via .xinitrc and always stays on bottom, never gets the focus and does not
appear in the window list or on the task bar, so it does not interfere with the
rest of the system at all.
Before using fvwm2 I used KDE which had too much stuff I didn't really need.
(However, I am still using the KDE kicker panel with fvwm, which I think is
quite funny.)  When I looked for a new window manager I tried fluxbox for a few
days, but it did not convince me. Then I tried fvwm and stayed with it.

Regards,

-- 
Lars Gustäbel
lars@gustaebel.de

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
(Benjamin Franklin)

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[meino.cramer]

Lars Gustäbel <lars@gustaebel.de> [09-09-12 18:52]:
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 03:40:56PM +0200, meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
> >  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
> >  what windowmanagers.
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I've been using fvwm2 (http://fvwm.org) for years now and am quite happy with
> it. Although it may look old and strange at first (the default settings are
> rather horrible IIRC), it is possible to configure every tiny detail of it
> using config files. I am still sometimes amazed of what you can do with it.
> The fvwm manpage has everything you need to know.
> The complexity is also its main drawback: it took me several weeks to have
> it the way I wanted it. fvwm is indeed rather complicated at first but that's
> why it's so powerful. It is really flexible and you can still use all the
> little gui tools out there from other window managers. One cool feature of fvwm
> is that you can assign different window styles based on the application, e.g. I
> have a graphical system monitor on my third desktop, that is started when I log
> in via .xinitrc and always stays on bottom, never gets the focus and does not
> appear in the window list or on the task bar, so it does not interfere with the
> rest of the system at all.
> Before using fvwm2 I used KDE which had too much stuff I didn't really need.
> (However, I am still using the KDE kicker panel with fvwm, which I think is
> quite funny.)  When I looked for a new window manager I tried fluxbox for a few
> days, but it did not convince me. Then I tried fvwm and stayed with it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Lars Gustäbel
> lars@gustaebel.de
> 
> Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
> (Benjamin Franklin)

Hi Lars,

thanks for your hint ! :)

Will check that !

Best regards
mcc





-- 
Please don't send me any Word- or Powerpoint-Attachments
unless it's absolutely neccessary. - Send simply Text.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
In a world without fences and walls nobody needs gates and windows.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Philip Webb]

090912 Lars Gustäbel wrote:
> I've been using fvwm2 for years now ...
> I have a graphical system monitor on my third desktop ...

Can you have multiple desktops with Fvwm ?
I couldn't find anything about it in the manual
& dropped further investigation of Fvwm as a result.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[pk]

Philip Webb wrote:

> Can you have multiple desktops with Fvwm ?
> I couldn't find anything about it in the manual
> & dropped further investigation of Fvwm as a result.

Virtual desktops are part of the X window manager specification:
http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/wm-spec-latest.html#id2505816
The application that handles the desktops are called a pager:
http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/wm-spec-latest.html#id2504750

http://www.fvwm.org/documentation/manpages/stable/FvwmPager.php

Best regards

Peter K

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Philip Webb]

090912 pk wrote:
> Philip Webb wrote:
>> Can you have multiple desktops with Fvwm ?
> Virtual desktops are part of the X window manager specification:
> http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/wm-spec-latest.html#id2505816
> The application that handles the desktops are called a pager:
> http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/wm-spec-latest.html#id2504750
> http://www.fvwm.org/documentation/manpages/stable/FvwmPager.php

Thanks, I'll keep a note & have another look sometime.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Jesús Guerrero]

On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:34:27 -0400, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net>
wrote:
> 090912 Lars Gustäbel wrote:
>> I've been using fvwm2 for years now ...
>> I have a graphical system monitor on my third desktop ...
> 
> Can you have multiple desktops with Fvwm ?
> I couldn't find anything about it in the manual
> & dropped further investigation of Fvwm as a result.

Obviously you didn't look too much into fvwm. By default you
only have to move the mouse across the screen border to change
to another "page" using the fvwm terminology.

This is configurable of course, you have the DesktopSize option
which configures the number of pages on each desktop, you can as
well define many desktops, each of them with many pages. It's
far more powerful than the average WM in that regard, certainly
more powerful than xfwm, kwin or metacity (which is the dumbest
wm ever in my humble opinion).

Fvwm is not for the lazy, though. But it can do *almost* anything,
my only complain about it is the xinerama support, I am just one
of the xrandr haters out there. 

Menus also can be defined and accessed using keybindings. Or you
could very well use just keybindings and don't use menus, which
is what I do.
-- 
Jesús Guerrero

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Willie Wong]

On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 01:34:27PM -0400, Penguin Lover Philip Webb squawked:
> 090912 Lars Gust?bel wrote:
> > I've been using fvwm2 for years now ...
> > I have a graphical system monitor on my third desktop ...
> 
> Can you have multiple desktops with Fvwm ?
> I couldn't find anything about it in the manual
> & dropped further investigation of Fvwm as a result.

Another vote for fvwm2. 

Like someone else said, fvwm does almost nothing by default, but boy
is it configurable :) And yes, it does support multiple desktops...
the only limit to how many I think is your RAM. 

You mentioned keyboard useable. I dunno if it will help, but my
old mouse/keyboard config is available here
http://www.math.princeton.edu/~wwong/fvwm/MouseKeyboardConfig.fvwm2rc
With my definitions I *can* use fvwm without using the mouse at all,
but I still use it to access the menu for convenience (the Menu key on
my laptop is not where one normally expects it to be). 

Just my 2 cents. 

W


-- 
What do you get when you cross a cat and a dog?

Ans. cat-dog-sine-theta
              ~Prof. Paul Hagelstein. MAT 330. P-town
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 1011 days, 11:41

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[John H. Moe]

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Jacob Todd]

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On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 09:30:49AM +1000, John H. Moe wrote:
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
> <html>
> <head>
>   <meta content="text/html;charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
>   <title></title>
> </head>
> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
> Lars Gust&auml;bel wrote:
> <blockquote cite="mid:20090912163747.GA1462@axis.g33x.de" type="cite">
>   <pre wrap="">On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 03:40:56PM +0200, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:meino.cramer@gmx.de">meino.cramer@gmx.de</a> wrote:
>   </pre>
>   <blockquote type="cite">
>     <pre wrap=""> I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
>  what windowmanagers.
>     </pre>
>   </blockquote>
>   <pre wrap=""><!---->
> Hi!
> 
> I've been using fvwm2 (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://fvwm.org">http://fvwm.org</a>) for years now and am quite happy with
> it. Although it may look old and strange at first (the default settings are
> rather horrible IIRC), it is possible to configure every tiny detail of it
> using config files. I am still sometimes amazed of what you can do with it.
> The fvwm manpage has everything you need to know.
> The complexity is also its main drawback: it took me several weeks to have
> it the way I wanted it. fvwm is indeed rather complicated at first but that's
> why it's so powerful. It is really flexible and you can still use all the
> little gui tools out there from other window managers. One cool feature of fvwm
> is that you can assign different window styles based on the application, e.g. I
> have a graphical system monitor on my third desktop, that is started when I log
> in via .xinitrc and always stays on bottom, never gets the focus and does not
> appear in the window list or on the task bar, so it does not interfere with the
> rest of the system at all.
> Before using fvwm2 I used KDE which had too much stuff I didn't really need.
> (However, I am still using the KDE kicker panel with fvwm, which I think is
> quite funny.)  When I looked for a new window manager I tried fluxbox for a few
> days, but it did not convince me. Then I tried fvwm and stayed with it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
>   </pre>
> </blockquote>
> Vote #2 for FVWM.<br>
> <ul>
>   <li>It does nothing (or at least, an absolute minimum) by default</li>
>   <li>you can configure it to be just about whatever you want</li>
>   <li>man pages explicitly say it can be used mouse-less, and I'm like
> you: I grew up with old, command-line systems and am still more
> comfortable with that&nbsp; :-P&nbsp; so I've configured most mouse bindings to
> keys as well</li>
>   <li>Support for extras via FVWM Modules, so that the core system
> itself stays small.&nbsp; If you want to add a desktop pager, add the
> FVWMPager module.&nbsp; If you want a taskbar, add the FVWMTaskBar module.&nbsp;
> Even a popup banner at startup with FVWMBanner, if you're in to that
> sort of thing..&nbsp; :-P</li>
>   <li>However, as previous poster pointed out, all this configurability
> is also a bit of a drawback, in that there are a LOT of configuration
> items to trawl through to find what you want. But most things I've
> wanted to do I've been able to find an example of on the FVWM forums,
> which are quite helpful.<br>
>   </li>
>   <li>From what I've read, you can also use FVWM-Themes to try and get
> a jump start with some possible configs, but I've never used them, so I
> can't comment on their worth or helpfulness<br>
>   </li>
> </ul>
> HTH<br>
> <br>
> John Moe<br>
> </body>
> </html>
> 

Please don't send html mail to the list. It looks the above quote.

-- 
Jake Todd
// If it isn't broke, tweak it!

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Matthias Krebs]

> Hi,
> 
>  for a long time I used IceWM as my windowmanager since I dont
>  want to mimicry other OSses (...) or want session management.
>  One thing, which is a must-have of windowmanagers I want to use
>  is the possibility to control the windowmanager nearly completly
>  with the keyboard (hotkeys configurable) which does *not*
>  imply "uncontrollable by mouse" ;)
>  Furthermore I should not be a hana-bi or anything else eye-candy
>  like (nothing against hana-bi as hana-bi!) -- most of the time
>  I will use the windowmanager instead of only looking at it -- which
>  does not imply: "black anmd white ugly ascii thingy".
> 
>  Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking for
>  a replacement which should
>  -- be widely configurable via ascii files
>  -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
>  -- be also useable with the mouse
>  -- no eye-candy
>  -- not ugly
>  -- NOT tiling
>  -- FAST!
> 
>  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
>  what windowmanagers.
> 
>  Thank you very much in advance for any help!
>  Best regards and have a nice weekend!
>  Meino Cramer
> 
Hi,

i use x11-wm/openbox

a really nice guide for configuration and tweaking can be found here : 
http://urukrama.wordpress.com/openbox-guide/

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Paul Hartman]

On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 8:40 AM,  <meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>  for a long time I used IceWM as my windowmanager since I dont
>  want to mimicry other OSses (...) or want session management.
>  One thing, which is a must-have of windowmanagers I want to use
>  is the possibility to control the windowmanager nearly completly
>  with the keyboard (hotkeys configurable) which does *not*
>  imply "uncontrollable by mouse" ;)
>  Furthermore I should not be a hana-bi or anything else eye-candy
>  like (nothing against hana-bi as hana-bi!) -- most of the time
>  I will use the windowmanager instead of only looking at it -- which
>  does not imply: "black anmd white ugly ascii thingy".
>
>  Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking for
>  a replacement which should
>  -- be widely configurable via ascii files
>  -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
>  -- be also useable with the mouse
>  -- no eye-candy
>  -- not ugly
>  -- NOT tiling
>  -- FAST!
>
>  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
>  what windowmanagers.
>
>  Thank you very much in advance for any help!
>  Best regards and have a nice weekend!
>  Meino Cramer

try Openbox, tiny but modern

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[forgottenwizard]

On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 01:37:45PM -0500, Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 8:40 AM,  <meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >  for a long time I used IceWM as my windowmanager since I dont
> >  want to mimicry other OSses (...) or want session management.
> >  One thing, which is a must-have of windowmanagers I want to use
> >  is the possibility to control the windowmanager nearly completly
> >  with the keyboard (hotkeys configurable) which does *not*
> >  imply "uncontrollable by mouse" ;)
> >  Furthermore I should not be a hana-bi or anything else eye-candy
> >  like (nothing against hana-bi as hana-bi!) -- most of the time
> >  I will use the windowmanager instead of only looking at it -- which
> >  does not imply: "black anmd white ugly ascii thingy".
> >
> >  Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking for
> >  a replacement which should
> >  -- be widely configurable via ascii files
> >  -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
> >  -- be also useable with the mouse
> >  -- no eye-candy
> >  -- not ugly
> >  -- NOT tiling
> >  -- FAST!
> >
> >  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
> >  what windowmanagers.
> >
> >  Thank you very much in advance for any help!
> >  Best regards and have a nice weekend!
> >  Meino Cramer
> 
> try Openbox, tiny but modern
>

Another vote for Openbox. Good little wm. If you want a panel for it,
I'd suggest fbpanel.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[meino.cramer]

forgottenwizard <phrexianreaper@hushmail.com> [09-09-13 02:12]:
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 01:37:45PM -0500, Paul Hartman wrote:
> > On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 8:40 AM,  <meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >  for a long time I used IceWM as my windowmanager since I dont
> > >  want to mimicry other OSses (...) or want session management.
> > >  One thing, which is a must-have of windowmanagers I want to use
> > >  is the possibility to control the windowmanager nearly completly
> > >  with the keyboard (hotkeys configurable) which does *not*
> > >  imply "uncontrollable by mouse" ;)
> > >  Furthermore I should not be a hana-bi or anything else eye-candy
> > >  like (nothing against hana-bi as hana-bi!) -- most of the time
> > >  I will use the windowmanager instead of only looking at it -- which
> > >  does not imply: "black anmd white ugly ascii thingy".
> > >
> > >  Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking for
> > >  a replacement which should
> > >  -- be widely configurable via ascii files
> > >  -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
> > >  -- be also useable with the mouse
> > >  -- no eye-candy
> > >  -- not ugly
> > >  -- NOT tiling
> > >  -- FAST!
> > >
> > >  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
> > >  what windowmanagers.
> > >
> > >  Thank you very much in advance for any help!
> > >  Best regards and have a nice weekend!
> > >  Meino Cramer
> > 
> > try Openbox, tiny but modern
> >
> 
> Another vote for Openbox. Good little wm. If you want a panel for it,
> I'd suggest fbpanel.
> 

Hi,

Currently I am playing aroung with fluxbox. The previously missing
feature of a keyboard useable applikation menu is nearly "fixed" :)

I also installed fbpanel -- what I miss are the two mini-graphs of
the IceWM-Taskbar, which shows CPU load and net traffic throughput.
Can I get this anywhere in a way that it is incorparated into
fbpanel?

mcc

-- 
Please don't send me any Word- or Powerpoint-Attachments
unless it's absolutely neccessary. - Send simply Text.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
In a world without fences and walls nobody needs gates and windows.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[forgottenwizard]

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 02:55:34AM +0200, meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
> forgottenwizard <phrexianreaper@hushmail.com> [09-09-13 02:12]:
> > On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 01:37:45PM -0500, Paul Hartman wrote:
> > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 8:40 AM,  <meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > >  for a long time I used IceWM as my windowmanager since I dont
> > > >  want to mimicry other OSses (...) or want session management.
> > > >  One thing, which is a must-have of windowmanagers I want to use
> > > >  is the possibility to control the windowmanager nearly completly
> > > >  with the keyboard (hotkeys configurable) which does *not*
> > > >  imply "uncontrollable by mouse" ;)
> > > >  Furthermore I should not be a hana-bi or anything else eye-candy
> > > >  like (nothing against hana-bi as hana-bi!) -- most of the time
> > > >  I will use the windowmanager instead of only looking at it -- which
> > > >  does not imply: "black anmd white ugly ascii thingy".
> > > >
> > > >  Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking for
> > > >  a replacement which should
> > > >  -- be widely configurable via ascii files
> > > >  -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
> > > >  -- be also useable with the mouse
> > > >  -- no eye-candy
> > > >  -- not ugly
> > > >  -- NOT tiling
> > > >  -- FAST!
> > > >
> > > >  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
> > > >  what windowmanagers.
> > > >
> > > >  Thank you very much in advance for any help!
> > > >  Best regards and have a nice weekend!
> > > >  Meino Cramer
> > > 
> > > try Openbox, tiny but modern
> > >
> > 
> > Another vote for Openbox. Good little wm. If you want a panel for it,
> > I'd suggest fbpanel.
> > 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Currently I am playing aroung with fluxbox. The previously missing
> feature of a keyboard useable applikation menu is nearly "fixed" :)
> 
> I also installed fbpanel -- what I miss are the two mini-graphs of
> the IceWM-Taskbar, which shows CPU load and net traffic throughput.
> Can I get this anywhere in a way that it is incorparated into
> fbpanel?
> 
> mcc
> 

It may be possible, but I don't know how. I used fbpanel as just a
panel, though if you scale it down in width you could run conky and get
the info you want in the exposed area.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Jesús Guerrero]

On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:52:40 -0500, forgottenwizard
<phrexianreaper@hushmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 02:55:34AM +0200, meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
>> forgottenwizard <phrexianreaper@hushmail.com> [09-09-13 02:12]:
>> > On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 01:37:45PM -0500, Paul Hartman wrote:
>> > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 8:40 AM,  <meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi,
>> > > >
>> > > >  for a long time I used IceWM as my windowmanager since I dont
>> > > >  want to mimicry other OSses (...) or want session management.
>> > > >  One thing, which is a must-have of windowmanagers I want to use
>> > > >  is the possibility to control the windowmanager nearly completly
>> > > >  with the keyboard (hotkeys configurable) which does *not*
>> > > >  imply "uncontrollable by mouse" ;)
>> > > >  Furthermore I should not be a hana-bi or anything else eye-candy
>> > > >  like (nothing against hana-bi as hana-bi!) -- most of the time
>> > > >  I will use the windowmanager instead of only looking at it --
>> > > >  which
>> > > >  does not imply: "black anmd white ugly ascii thingy".
>> > > >
>> > > >  Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking
>> > > >  for
>> > > >  a replacement which should
>> > > >  -- be widely configurable via ascii files
>> > > >  -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
>> > > >  -- be also useable with the mouse
>> > > >  -- no eye-candy
>> > > >  -- not ugly
>> > > >  -- NOT tiling
>> > > >  -- FAST!
>> > > >
>> > > >  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
>> > > >  what windowmanagers.
>> > > >
>> > > >  Thank you very much in advance for any help!
>> > > >  Best regards and have a nice weekend!
>> > > >  Meino Cramer
>> > > 
>> > > try Openbox, tiny but modern
>> > >
>> > 
>> > Another vote for Openbox. Good little wm. If you want a panel for it,
>> > I'd suggest fbpanel.
>> > 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Currently I am playing aroung with fluxbox. The previously missing
>> feature of a keyboard useable applikation menu is nearly "fixed" :)
>> 
>> I also installed fbpanel -- what I miss are the two mini-graphs of
>> the IceWM-Taskbar, which shows CPU load and net traffic throughput.
>> Can I get this anywhere in a way that it is incorparated into
>> fbpanel?
> 
> It may be possible, but I don't know how. I used fbpanel as just a
> panel, though if you scale it down in width you could run conky and get
> the info you want in the exposed area.

You can use the fluxbox "slit" to embed wmaker applets, there are quite
a lot on portage under the category x11-plugins/ but also in many more
places.

You could as well use gkrellm which does a lot of things in a very 
reduced space.

-- 
Jesús Guerrero

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Hazen Valliant-Saunders]

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I used to be partial to E17, too unstable, Xfce4 is nice, not too much
overhead.

GKRellm is nice, ther are others, but I'm more of a console jockey.

2009/9/13 Jesús Guerrero <i92guboj@terra.es>

> On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:52:40 -0500, forgottenwizard
> <phrexianreaper@hushmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 02:55:34AM +0200, meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
> >> forgottenwizard <phrexianreaper@hushmail.com> [09-09-13 02:12]:
> >> > On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 01:37:45PM -0500, Paul Hartman wrote:
> >> > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 8:40 AM,  <meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi,
> >> > > >
> >> > > >  for a long time I used IceWM as my windowmanager since I dont
> >> > > >  want to mimicry other OSses (...) or want session management.
> >> > > >  One thing, which is a must-have of windowmanagers I want to use
> >> > > >  is the possibility to control the windowmanager nearly completly
> >> > > >  with the keyboard (hotkeys configurable) which does *not*
> >> > > >  imply "uncontrollable by mouse" ;)
> >> > > >  Furthermore I should not be a hana-bi or anything else eye-candy
> >> > > >  like (nothing against hana-bi as hana-bi!) -- most of the time
> >> > > >  I will use the windowmanager instead of only looking at it --
> >> > > >  which
> >> > > >  does not imply: "black anmd white ugly ascii thingy".
> >> > > >
> >> > > >  Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking
> >> > > >  for
> >> > > >  a replacement which should
> >> > > >  -- be widely configurable via ascii files
> >> > > >  -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
> >> > > >  -- be also useable with the mouse
> >> > > >  -- no eye-candy
> >> > > >  -- not ugly
> >> > > >  -- NOT tiling
> >> > > >  -- FAST!
> >> > > >
> >> > > >  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
> >> > > >  what windowmanagers.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >  Thank you very much in advance for any help!
> >> > > >  Best regards and have a nice weekend!
> >> > > >  Meino Cramer
> >> > >
> >> > > try Openbox, tiny but modern
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Another vote for Openbox. Good little wm. If you want a panel for it,
> >> > I'd suggest fbpanel.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Currently I am playing aroung with fluxbox. The previously missing
> >> feature of a keyboard useable applikation menu is nearly "fixed" :)
> >>
> >> I also installed fbpanel -- what I miss are the two mini-graphs of
> >> the IceWM-Taskbar, which shows CPU load and net traffic throughput.
> >> Can I get this anywhere in a way that it is incorparated into
> >> fbpanel?
> >
> > It may be possible, but I don't know how. I used fbpanel as just a
> > panel, though if you scale it down in width you could run conky and get
> > the info you want in the exposed area.
>
> You can use the fluxbox "slit" to embed wmaker applets, there are quite
> a lot on portage under the category x11-plugins/ but also in many more
> places.
>
> You could as well use gkrellm which does a lot of things in a very
> reduced space.
>
> --
> Jesús Guerrero
>
>


-- 
Hazen Valliant-Saunders
IT/IS Consultant
(613) 355-5977

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[meino.cramer]

Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> [09-09-12 20:42]:
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 8:40 AM,  <meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >  for a long time I used IceWM as my windowmanager since I dont
> >  want to mimicry other OSses (...) or want session management.
> >  One thing, which is a must-have of windowmanagers I want to use
> >  is the possibility to control the windowmanager nearly completly
> >  with the keyboard (hotkeys configurable) which does *not*
> >  imply "uncontrollable by mouse" ;)
> >  Furthermore I should not be a hana-bi or anything else eye-candy
> >  like (nothing against hana-bi as hana-bi!) -- most of the time
> >  I will use the windowmanager instead of only looking at it -- which
> >  does not imply: "black anmd white ugly ascii thingy".
> >
> >  Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking for
> >  a replacement which should
> >  -- be widely configurable via ascii files
> >  -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
> >  -- be also useable with the mouse
> >  -- no eye-candy
> >  -- not ugly
> >  -- NOT tiling
> >  -- FAST!
> >
> >  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
> >  what windowmanagers.
> >
> >  Thank you very much in advance for any help!
> >  Best regards and have a nice weekend!
> >  Meino Cramer
> 
> try Openbox, tiny but modern

Currently I am playing around with fluxbox. There is one thing, which
I do not get working (not knowing, whether I haven't found a way or
whether it is generally not possible...): The selection of
applikations in the apllikation ("root"-) menu via keyboard. Only the
first applikation can be selected via its first character.
If someone knows a way....?

The other thing is an up-to-date documentation I didn't found.

It is a little annoying, that menu structures, which were unfolded,
did not collapse as usual but need to be actively "clicked away"
(sorry, I am no native English speaker).

Is the fluxbox mailinglist of hrrrrmmmm low traffic or...? 

Unfortunately I found many text snippets on the internet, which
"explain" how to activate certain aspects of fluxbox without
explaining for what they are good for. But as I said...may be 
I did not find the correct documentation and use the wrong mailing
list...

I like the tabbing feature, the look of fluxbox, its speed and
the possibility to steer much of its features via keyboard.
The configuration files are clean, simple and easy to understand.
Te time from installing to a working environment was very short.

The following question is NOT meant in a rhetorical way:

What would be reasons to switch to openbox?
What are the main differences between openbox and fluxbox?
(which is not meant as a firestarter for a flame war!!!)

I am not interested in a better embedding into KDE or GNOME
since I dont use them as an desktop environment -- I am only
using some of their applikations from time to time. The console
and the commandline is my homeplanet...old school but I am better
reading in text than in guessing icons... ;)
(dont meant too seriously but with a big smiley!)

Best regards
mcc



-- 
Please don't send me any Word- or Powerpoint-Attachments
unless it's absolutely neccessary. - Send simply Text.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
In a world without fences and walls nobody needs gates and windows.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Philip Webb]

090916 meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
> Currently I am playing around with fluxbox. 
> selection of applications in the application ("root"-) menu via keyboard.
> Only the first application can be selected via its first character.

As I said in an earlier msg, you can navigate the menu with the arrow keys.

> It is a little annoying, that menu structures, which were unfolded,
> did not collapse as usual but need to be actively "clicked away"

That seems to be part of the 'do it yourself' philosophy of Fluxbox.
You can add a line '[hidemenus]' to the menu to close it.

> I like the tabbing feature, the look of fluxbox, its speed
> and the possibility to steer much of its features via keyboard.
> The configuration files are clean, simple and easy to understand.
> The time from installing to a working environment was very short.
 
I'm very satisfied with it since I started using it last April.

> (sorry, I am no native English speaker).

'application' corrected above (smile: you should see my German).

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Thomas Kahle]

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Hey,

>  Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking for 
>  a replacement which should 
>  -- be widely configurable via ascii files
>  -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
>  -- be also useable with the mouse
>  -- no eye-candy 
>  -- not ugly
>  -- NOT tiling
>  -- FAST!
>  
>  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
>  what windowmanagers.

Many people say fluxbox here, but you should also have a look at openbox
(http://icculus.org/openbox/index.php/Main_Page) which is very similar
but seems to integrate better into freedesktop.org standards. I use
openbox because it gives me the speed and configurability of fluxbux
while all the automagic things (suspend-keys, volume-keys,
powermanagement, plasmoids, ...) that hal and kde4 bring still work.
But maybe the latest version of fluxbox also does that..? I have not
checked on it for a while.

cheers
Thomas


-- 
Thomas Kahle

The fundamental theorem of algebra is open source. Like any other
mathematical theorem it can be applied free of charge and everybody
has access to its proof and can convince himself how it works. Why
should software be any different?


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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Mick]

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On Monday 14 September 2009, Thomas Kahle wrote:
> Hey,
>
> >  Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking for
> >  a replacement which should
> >  -- be widely configurable via ascii files
> >  -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
> >  -- be also useable with the mouse
> >  -- no eye-candy
> >  -- not ugly
> >  -- NOT tiling
> >  -- FAST!
> >
> >  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
> >  what windowmanagers.
>
> Many people say fluxbox here, but you should also have a look at openbox
> (http://icculus.org/openbox/index.php/Main_Page) which is very similar
> but seems to integrate better into freedesktop.org standards. I use
> openbox because it gives me the speed and configurability of fluxbux
> while all the automagic things (suspend-keys, volume-keys,
> powermanagement, plasmoids, ...) that hal and kde4 bring still work.
> But maybe the latest version of fluxbox also does that..? I have not
> checked on it for a while.

Hmm not sure that Fluxbox does much of that ... I understand that the way 
Fluxbox works goes against compositing that KDE/Gnome implemented.

Does openbox do real transparency, or can you only see the desktop in e.g. 
aterm?
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday 14 September 2009, Thomas Kahle wrote:
>> Hey,
>>
>> >  Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking for
>> >  a replacement which should
>> >  -- be widely configurable via ascii files
>> >  -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
>> >  -- be also useable with the mouse
>> >  -- no eye-candy
>> >  -- not ugly
>> >  -- NOT tiling
>> >  -- FAST!
>> >
>> >  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
>> >  what windowmanagers.

evilwm is cool!
http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/EvilWM

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Jacob Todd]

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On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 03:40:56PM +0200, meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
> 
> Hi,
...
>  -- NOT tiling

May I ask why not tiling? unless you're doing office work (spreadsheats,
powerpointers, money laundering and the like), the WIMP paradigm isn't efficient.

-- 
Jake Todd
// If it isn't broke, tweak it!

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[Neal Hogan]

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Jacob Todd <jaketodd422@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 03:40:56PM +0200, meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
> ...
>>  -- NOT tiling
>
> May I ask why not tiling? unless you're doing office work (spreadsheats,
> powerpointers, money laundering and the like), the WIMP paradigm isn't efficient.

That is just a silly comment.


>
> --
> Jake Todd
> // If it isn't broke, tweak it!
>

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[meino.cramer]

Jacob Todd <jaketodd422@gmail.com> [09-09-16 03:55]:
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 03:40:56PM +0200, meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> ...
> >  -- NOT tiling
> 
> May I ask why not tiling? 

  Simply answer: I dont like it. :)

  mcc

> unless you're doing office work (spreadsheats,
> powerpointers, money laundering and the like), the WIMP paradigm isn't efficient.
> 
> -- 
> Jake Todd
> // If it isn't broke, tweak it!



-- 
Please don't send me any Word- or Powerpoint-Attachments
unless it's absolutely neccessary. - Send simply Text.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
In a world without fences and walls nobody needs gates and windows.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[commo_puke]

Xfce4 or fluxbox with some tweaking
------Original Message------
From: meino.cramer@gmx.de
To: Gentoo
ReplyTo: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager
Sent: Sep 12, 2009 8:40 AM


Hi,

 for a long time I used IceWM as my windowmanager since I dont
 want to mimicry other OSses (...) or want session management.
 One thing, which is a must-have of windowmanagers I want to use
 is the possibility to control the windowmanager nearly completly 
 with the keyboard (hotkeys configurable) which does *not* 
 imply "uncontrollable by mouse" ;)
 Furthermore I should not be a hana-bi or anything else eye-candy
 like (nothing against hana-bi as hana-bi!) -- most of the time
 I will use the windowmanager instead of only looking at it -- which
 does not imply: "black anmd white ugly ascii thingy".

 Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking for 
 a replacement which should 
 -- be widely configurable via ascii files
 -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
 -- be also useable with the mouse
 -- no eye-candy 
 -- not ugly
 -- NOT tiling
 -- FAST!
 
 I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
 what windowmanagers.

 Thank you very much in advance for any help!
 Best regards and have a nice weekend!
 Meino Cramer




-- 
Please don't send me any Word- or Powerpoint-Attachments
unless it's absolutely neccessary. - Send simply Text.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
In a world without fences and walls nobody needs gates and windows.




Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager

[meino.cramer]

Hi,

 Thank you for your hint.
 I will try it ! :)

 Have a nice sunday!
 Meino Cramer

commo_puke@yahoo.com <commo_puke@yahoo.com> [09-09-12 15:45]:
> Xfce4 or fluxbox with some tweaking
> ------Original Message------
> From: meino.cramer@gmx.de
> To: Gentoo
> ReplyTo: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: [gentoo-user] [OT] In search of a "good" windowmanager
> Sent: Sep 12, 2009 8:40 AM
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
>  for a long time I used IceWM as my windowmanager since I dont
>  want to mimicry other OSses (...) or want session management.
>  One thing, which is a must-have of windowmanagers I want to use
>  is the possibility to control the windowmanager nearly completly 
>  with the keyboard (hotkeys configurable) which does *not* 
>  imply "uncontrollable by mouse" ;)
>  Furthermore I should not be a hana-bi or anything else eye-candy
>  like (nothing against hana-bi as hana-bi!) -- most of the time
>  I will use the windowmanager instead of only looking at it -- which
>  does not imply: "black anmd white ugly ascii thingy".
> 
>  Since IceWM seems to be gone into hibernation phase I am looking for 
>  a replacement which should 
>  -- be widely configurable via ascii files
>  -- be as far as possible controllable by keyboard
>  -- be also useable with the mouse
>  -- no eye-candy 
>  -- not ugly
>  -- NOT tiling
>  -- FAST!
>  
>  I would like to hear from others what experiences they made with
>  what windowmanagers.
> 
>  Thank you very much in advance for any help!
>  Best regards and have a nice weekend!
>  Meino Cramer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Please don't send me any Word- or Powerpoint-Attachments
> unless it's absolutely neccessary. - Send simply Text.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> In a world without fences and walls nobody needs gates and windows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

-- 
Please don't send me any Word- or Powerpoint-Attachments
unless it's absolutely neccessary. - Send simply Text.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
In a world without fences and walls nobody needs gates and windows.