[gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Dan Farrell]

Last week the gentoo forums went down.  Then gentoo-wiki.com went down. 

Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down.

What's the deal?  What are we to do about this shoddy hosting?

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[William Hubbs]

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Hi,

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:05:24PM -0500, Dan Farrell wrote:
> Last week the gentoo forums went down.  Then gentoo-wiki.com went down. 
> 
> Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down.
 
 I just went to www.gentoo.org and got the web site with no problem, and
 I'm also on irc with no problem,.

- -- 
William Hubbs
gentoo accessibility team lead
williamh@gentoo.org
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Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Donnerstag 13 August 2009, Dan Farrell wrote:
> Last week the gentoo forums went down.  Then gentoo-wiki.com went down.
>
> Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down.
>
> What's the deal?  What are we to do about this shoddy hosting?

gentoo-wiki has nothing to do with gentoo.org.

Nothing.

So have a nice day.

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[pk]

Dan Farrell wrote:
> Last week the gentoo forums went down.  Then gentoo-wiki.com went down. 
> 
> Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down.
> 
> What's the deal?  What are we to do about this shoddy hosting?

gentoo.org works for me (both this afternoon, around 15.00 and right
now, 20.03). f.g.o. also works right now. g-w.com also works.

Best regards

Peter K

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Albert Hopkins]

On Thu, 2009-08-13 at 12:05 -0500, Dan Farrell wrote:
> Last week the gentoo forums went down.  Then gentoo-wiki.com went down. 
> 
> Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down.
> 
> What's the deal?  What are we to do about this shoddy hosting?
> 

Gentoo.org works for me.

IIRC gentoo-wiki.com is not an official Gentoo site and is not formally
associated with the Gentoo project.  They don't share any
infrastructure.  So other than both being Gentoo-oriented, the two sites
going down are unrelated.

Most of Gentoo's servers, IIRC, are hosted via donated resources, e.g.
OSL at Oregon State University on their dime. So unless someone wants to
shell out to move gentoo.org to a dedicated hosting company than can
gaurantee five 9s for some major cash, I suggest we be a little more
patient/forgiving.

-a

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Dan Farrell]

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:01:53 +0200
Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:

> gentoo-wiki has nothing to do with gentoo.org.
> 
> Nothing.

Sure, they're completely seperate ... officially.  But that's not the
point.  For good or for ill, gentoo-wiki is - or at least used to be
before the hosting fiasco late last year - a well respected and
commonly used source of gentoo information.  So it doesn't do much for
the community, IMHO, for it to be appearing and dissapearing, sucking
up all the good authors for its articles, and then taking all the
documentation away at the most inopportune times

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Dan Farrell]

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:05:07 +0200
pk <peterk2@coolmail.se> wrote:
 
> gentoo.org works for me (both this afternoon, around 15.00 and right
> now, 20.03). f.g.o. also works right now. g-w.com also works.

Your're all right; the gentoo.org thing must have been a transient
hiccough somewhere between me and them.  Forum is working fine too. I
was too quick to criticize.  

Also, gentoo-wiki _just_ came back up, apparently.  Nevertheless I
think anyone who uses it agrees that it goes down _too_much_.  

I know, these aren't the gentoo people on the wiki.  I'm more concerned
with the hole it leaves when it disappears than I am with pointing
fingers.  

[gentoo-user] Re: gentoo sites go down too much!

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 08/13/2009 08:05 PM, Dan Farrell wrote:
> Last week the gentoo forums went down.  Then gentoo-wiki.com went down.
>
> Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down.
>
> What's the deal?  What are we to do about this shoddy hosting?

Before posting "site down" issues, please try this first:

   http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com

Thanks :)

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 13 August 2009 20:22:41 Dan Farrell wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:01:53 +0200
>
> Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > gentoo-wiki has nothing to do with gentoo.org.
> >
> > Nothing.
>
> Sure, they're completely seperate ... officially.  But that's not the
> point.  For good or for ill, gentoo-wiki is - or at least used to be
> before the hosting fiasco late last year - a well respected and
> commonly used source of gentoo information.  So it doesn't do much for
> the community, IMHO, for it to be appearing and dissapearing, sucking
> up all the good authors for its articles, and then taking all the
> documentation away at the most inopportune times

So what do you suggest? I mean, other than whinging about something that 
Gentoo can do absolutely nothing about, what do you suggest one actually DOES?


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Paul Hartman]

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Dan Farrell<dan@spore.ath.cx> wrote:
> Last week the gentoo forums went down.  Then gentoo-wiki.com went down.
>
> Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down.
>
> What's the deal?  What are we to do about this shoddy hosting?

The deal:

Gentoo forums went down recently because MySQL crashed and could not
be restarted normally, apparently. They were down a week earlier when
the servers were moved from Oregon State University to a hosting
company in Canada (gossamer-threads.com). I'm not sure if they
physically moved the servers or if they moved the data to all-new
servers. If the latter, maybe that partially explains the MySQL
issues; perhaps they are still working out the new setup.

I believe gentoo.org uses Neustar UltraDNS, whose business exists for
the purpose of providing high-availability DNS and hosting for huge
companies (I think they provide services to Amazon and Oracle), it
seems like Gentoo.org should be in good hands there.

Gentoo-wiki.com is a user-run site and whether it is up or down has
nothing to do with the gentoo.org sites. (Mike Valstar, whose site it
is, also runs gentoo-portage.com). There is a mirror of the old
gentoo-wiki.com articles at gentoo-wiki.info which might get you by in
a pinch if the g-w.com is down or if you're looking for an old article
was lost.

What are we to do?
If you or anyone else have any ideas to improve the, or donations of
money, mirrors, better equipment or hosting, I'm sure gentoo web team
(or Mike V. for the wiki) would be happy to listen. :)

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Joseph]

On 08/13/09 21:12, Alan McKinnon wrote:

>So what do you suggest? I mean, other than whinging about something that 
>Gentoo can do absolutely nothing about, what do you suggest one actually DOES?

Had a cancel/board meeting and see if it is possible to host gentoo.org with somebody who is more reliable.
I'm sure there are alternatives, especially if you post it on the forum you will have more than few willing to offer hosting help.

Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on them is not acceptable. 
If the current sever is not reliable (and it is NOT; regardless if it is free or not) move it somewhere else.

-- 
Joseph

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Donnerstag 13 August 2009, Joseph wrote:
> On 08/13/09 21:12, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >So what do you suggest? I mean, other than whinging about something that
> >Gentoo can do absolutely nothing about, what do you suggest one actually
> > DOES?
>
> Had a cancel/board meeting and see if it is possible to host gentoo.org
> with somebody who is more reliable. I'm sure there are alternatives,
> especially if you post it on the forum you will have more than few willing
> to offer hosting help.
>
> Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on them
> is not acceptable. If the current sever is not reliable (and it is NOT;
> regardless if it is free or not) move it somewhere else.

forums are reliable. There are hardly any downtimes. Ok, there was the one 
last week. So what? And the forums are high traffic. I doubt that this kind of 
load is covered by the usual end user hosting services.

And gentoo-wiki. Stop blaming gentoo and ask the guy running it, how to help 
him.

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Albert Hopkins]

On Thu, 2009-08-13 at 14:29 -0600, Joseph wrote:
> On 08/13/09 21:12, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> >So what do you suggest? I mean, other than whinging about something that 
> >Gentoo can do absolutely nothing about, what do you suggest one actually DOES?
> 
> Had a cancel/board[sic] meeting and see if it is possible to host gentoo.org with somebody who is more reliable.
> I'm sure there are alternatives, especially if you post it on the forum you will have more than few willing to offer hosting help.
> 
> Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on them is not acceptable. 
> If the current sever is not reliable (and it is NOT; regardless if it is free or not) move it somewhere else.

I think the consensus has been firstly that Gentoo.org isn't down, and
that it was down recently but hasn't been down a lot. Secondly, what
Alan was saying is that if there is a problem with gentoo-wiki.com then
the people at Gentoo.org are powerless over that. 

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Peter Humphrey]

On Thursday 13 August 2009 18:05:24 Dan Farrell wrote:
> Last week the gentoo forums went down.  Then gentoo-wiki.com went down.
>
> Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down.
>
> What's the deal?  What are we to do about this shoddy hosting?

Just calm down, learn now not to whinge pathetically, twiddle your thumbs 
for a few minutes and try again.

And stop making such a lot of noise to keep all us dinosaurs awake.

HAND.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:52 -0600, Joseph wrote:

> Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on
> them is not acceptable. If the current sever is not reliable (and it is
> NOT; regardless if it is free or not) move it somewhere else.

Which server: gentoo.org, the forums or gentoo-wiki.com? The forums were
down last week in an announced transition and down again for a short
while earlier this week as a result of a glitch, probably arising fro the
transition. gentoo.org was not down and gentoo-wiki.com is a completely
unrelated site.

You demand that "it" (whichever site that is) is moved, yet complain
about downtime when the only downtime was due to Gentoo doing just what
you demand :-O 


-- 
Neil Bothwick

If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it.

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Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Dan Farrell]

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:12:07 +0200
Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> So what do you suggest? I mean, other than whinging about something
> that Gentoo can do absolutely nothing about, what do you suggest one
> actually DOES?
> 

That is exactly my question.  Is it important to do something, is it
wise, and what would that be?  

I was thinking mirroring, of some kind...

RE: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Adam Carter]

> Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely
> heavily on them is not acceptable.
> If the current sever is not reliable (and it is NOT;
> regardless if it is free or not) move it somewhere else.

Cool. So you're volunteering to pay for it right?

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 13 August 2009 21:55:44 Paul Hartman wrote:
> I believe gentoo.org uses Neustar UltraDNS, whose business exists for
> the purpose of providing high-availability DNS

Well I certainly hope that their actual technical infrastructure is better 
than their marketing FUD.

I'm being directly targeted by Neustar's marketing machine but they are clever 
and not actually mentioning the company by name. I have customer's complaining 
that the Neustar sales rep tells them privately that @ALANS_EMPLOYER has crap 
DNS, and now the customer wants reassurance. Which is a conversation I should 
never be having.

Facts say otherwise though. 3 distributed auth servers across the planet, one 
hidden primary pushing updates out, 12 caches distributed across the planet, 
all in anycast so the customer automatically finds the closest one. Not just 
customer records either - that system runs a TLD and two 2TLDs. Uptime is 
1000+ days, and we have never had a DNS outage (and not from lack of trying by 
the bad guys).

Inadequate DNS infrastructure? No, Neustar, I don't think so. In my country, 
you can't even come close to what I have.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 13 August 2009 22:29:52 Joseph wrote:

> Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on them
> is not acceptable. If the current sever is not reliable (and it is NOT;
> regardless if it is free or not) move it somewhere else.

You are completely missing the point about the wiki.

The Gentoo Foundation does not own gentoo-wiki. It is privately run. It cannot 
move it, rehost it, improve it or have any appreciable effect on it in any way 
(other than mailing the real owner and asking nicely).

The Gentoo Foundation can no more influence the wiki than it can influence 
DistroWatch, Ubuntu or Microsoft's web site.

So can we all please stop being confused and assuming something different, and 
wondering why Gentoo does not guarantee the wiki? 

IT DOES NOT BECAUSE IT CANNOT. TO EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT LIKE IT, THAT'S TOUGH.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:52 -0600, Joseph wrote:

> Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on
> them is not acceptable.

If something so important to you fails to provide the service you need,
you should demand your money back!


-- 
Neil Bothwick

c:>Press Enter to Exit

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Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Albert Hopkins]

On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 13:09 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:52 -0600, Joseph wrote:
> 
> > Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on
> > them is not acceptable.
> 
> If something so important to you fails to provide the service you need,
> you should demand your money back!
> 

And if you want something done right, do it yourself!

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Freitag 14 August 2009, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:52 -0600, Joseph wrote:
> > Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on
> > them is not acceptable.
>
> If something so important to you fails to provide the service you need,
> you should demand your money back!

I have to add that the gentoo foundation acts quickly and refunds all the 
money you paid for their services without any fuss.

;)

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[Daniel da Veiga]

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 09:38, Volker Armin
Hemmann<volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Freitag 14 August 2009, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:52 -0600, Joseph wrote:
>> > Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on
>> > them is not acceptable.
>>
>> If something so important to you fails to provide the service you need,
>> you should demand your money back!
>
> I have to add that the gentoo foundation acts quickly and refunds all the
> money you paid for their services without any fuss.
>

And from this whole thread, the conclusion is:

If you can't do it better, don't complain at all. (specially when its for free)


-- 
Daniel da Veiga

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[forgottenwizard]

On 12:28 Fri 14 Aug, Daniel da Veiga wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 09:38, Volker Armin
> Hemmann<volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Freitag 14 August 2009, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:52 -0600, Joseph wrote:
> >> > Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on
> >> > them is not acceptable.
> >>
> >> If something so important to you fails to provide the service you need,
> >> you should demand your money back!
> >
> > I have to add that the gentoo foundation acts quickly and refunds all the
> > money you paid for their services without any fuss.
> >
> 
> And from this whole thread, the conclusion is:
> 
> If you can't do it better, don't complain at all. (specially when its for free)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Daniel da Veiga
> 

There is a forum for Gentoo at Linuxquestions.org. If forums.gentoo.org
is down too much, the mailing list and irc can't handle the problem, and
the wiki is unreliable, LQ.org is another possible source, though the
number of people there seems minimal.

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!

[kashani]

Dan Farrell wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:05:07 +0200
> pk <peterk2@coolmail.se> wrote:
>  
>> gentoo.org works for me (both this afternoon, around 15.00 and right
>> now, 20.03). f.g.o. also works right now. g-w.com also works.
> 
> Your're all right; the gentoo.org thing must have been a transient
> hiccough somewhere between me and them.  Forum is working fine too. I
> was too quick to criticize.  
> 
> Also, gentoo-wiki _just_ came back up, apparently.  Nevertheless I
> think anyone who uses it agrees that it goes down _too_much_.  
> 
> I know, these aren't the gentoo people on the wiki.  I'm more concerned
> with the hole it leaves when it disappears than I am with pointing
> fingers.  
> 

	I'd like to see the conversation about Gentoo hosting docs in a wiki 
rather than the XML stuff we've got now picked up again. My time is 
limited and I'm not going to learn a whole doc system when I can just 
fix the docs in a tenth of the time it takes to even figure out where to 
get the Gentoo docs in order to edit them. Hell someone can wiki -> xml 
the thing and create official releases every couple of months while the 
wiki docs continue on as unstable releases.

kashani