[gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Igor Nemilentsev]

Hi, list
I have emerged x11-base/xorg-server-1.6.2 with '+hal'.
I have into xorg.conf
Section "ServerFlags"
   Option "DontZap" "false"
EndSection

Nonetheless the Ctrl+Alt+Backspace combination
doesn't work.
Can someone give me advice?

Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Helmut Jarausch]

On 24 Jul, Igor Nemilentsev wrote:
> Hi, list
> I have emerged x11-base/xorg-server-1.6.2 with '+hal'.
> I have into xorg.conf
> Section "ServerFlags"
>    Option "DontZap" "false"
> EndSection
> 
> Nonetheless the Ctrl+Alt+Backspace combination
> doesn't work.
> Can someone give me advice?

AFAIK, the DontZap option applies to the key sequences
<Alt> <Fx> to switch to a different terminal.

I have the same problem here (same configuration), i.e.
<Ctrl><Alt><Del> doesn't work.

If you can't exit via your window manager anymore,
I think, Neil Bothwick has posted the following advice
some days ago:

If you find yourself without a keyboard or mouse and can't get back to a
console, press and hold alt + sysreq then hit R and E.  I did this the
other day and it took me back to a console.

You're thinking of the complete Alt-SysRq sequence to (relatively)
cleanly reboot. Alt-SysRq-R returns keyboard control after it has
been locked out by X. You should then be able to do Ctrl-Alt-F1 to get
back to your VC.

 I got some SysRq commands printed out tho.  Question, do I have to hit
> the Alt key each time or what? 

Hold down Atl, hold down SysRq, press each of the keys in turn. The usual
full sequence is R-E-I-S-U-B

Reboot
Even
If
System
Utterly
Broken

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Then for example on tty2 start "sleep 300 ; /etc/init.d/xdm stop ;
killall X" and on tty1 do "/etc/init.d/xdm start"

Another approach is to use acpid. I've read this tip here posted by
Volker Hemmann IIRC. If you use acpid, there should be a file called
"/etc/acpi/default.sh"

Modify it, substituting the lines:

19                 case "$action" in
20                         power)
21                                /sbin/init 0

with

19                 case "$action" in
20                         power)
21                                /usr/bin/chvt 1


then do /etc/init.d/acpid restart.

Now pressing the power button on your machine should switch to the
active TTY to tty1


-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany

Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Freitag 24 Juli 2009, Igor Nemilentsev wrote:
> Hi, list
> I have emerged x11-base/xorg-server-1.6.2 with '+hal'.
> I have into xorg.conf
> Section "ServerFlags"
>    Option "DontZap" "false"
> EndSection
>
> Nonetheless the Ctrl+Alt+Backspace combination
> doesn't work.
> Can someone give me advice?

complain to the fedora idiots who thought that zapping is not needed anymore?

Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Freitag 24 Juli 2009, Igor Nemilentsev wrote:
>   
>> Hi, list
>> I have emerged x11-base/xorg-server-1.6.2 with '+hal'.
>> I have into xorg.conf
>> Section "ServerFlags"
>>    Option "DontZap" "false"
>> EndSection
>>
>> Nonetheless the Ctrl+Alt+Backspace combination
>> doesn't work.
>> Can someone give me advice?
>>     
>
> complain to the fedora idiots who thought that zapping is not needed anymore?
>
>
>   

I don't have any of that in my file and it works fine, wellllll, except
when I do xorg-server with hal enabled.  Then NOTHING keyboard/mouse
related works.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Igor Nemilentsev]

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> AFAIK, the DontZap option applies to the key sequences
> <Alt> <Fx> to switch to a different terminal.
  No, the Ctrl+Alt+Fn sequence behaviour is changed
  with the option
  Option "DontVTSwitch"

> I have the same problem here (same configuration), i.e.
> <Ctrl><Alt><Del> doesn't work.
>
> If you can't exit via your window manager anymore,
> I think, Neil Bothwick has posted the following advice
> some days ago:
  I figured out to return old style I need this command:

  setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp

  Or add
  input.xkb.options terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
  in configuration file of hal.

  Thanks for the advice.

Regards, Nemilentsev Igor

Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Igor Nemilentsev]

> > I have emerged x11-base/xorg-server-1.6.2 with '+hal'.
> > I have into xorg.conf
> > Section "ServerFlags"
> >    Option "DontZap" "false"
> > EndSection
> >
> > Nonetheless the Ctrl+Alt+Backspace combination
> > doesn't work.
> > Can someone give me advice?
>
> complain to the fedora idiots who thought that zapping is not needed anymore?
  I don't know but do fedora's developers have an very serious
  influence on  Xorg development ?

Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:16:34 +0300 (EEST), Igor Nemilentsev wrote:

> > complain to the fedora idiots who thought that zapping is not needed
> > anymore?  
>   I don't know but do fedora's developers have an very serious
>   influence on  Xorg development ?

According to man xorg.conf, DontVTSwitch and DontZap both default to off.
I can see the use for such options, when you don't want your users
exiting X or even specific programs, but the default seems sensible. Is
it just Fedora that change the defaults?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I locked my coathanger in my car; good thing I had a key.

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Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Helmut Jarausch]

On 24 Jul, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:16:34 +0300 (EEST), Igor Nemilentsev wrote:
> 
>> > complain to the fedora idiots who thought that zapping is not needed
>> > anymore?  
>>   I don't know but do fedora's developers have an very serious
>>   influence on  Xorg development ?
> 
> According to man xorg.conf, DontVTSwitch and DontZap both default to off.
> I can see the use for such options, when you don't want your users
> exiting X or even specific programs, but the default seems sensible. Is
> it just Fedora that change the defaults?

No, it's Gentoo itself.
Running xorg-server-1.6.2-r1 (+hal)

It seems a 'hal' 'feature' see the post of Igor this morning,
Helmut.


-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany

Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Freitag 24 Juli 2009, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:16:34 +0300 (EEST), Igor Nemilentsev wrote:
> > > complain to the fedora idiots who thought that zapping is not needed
> > > anymore?
> >
> >   I don't know but do fedora's developers have an very serious
> >   influence on  Xorg development ?
>
> According to man xorg.conf, DontVTSwitch and DontZap both default to off.
> I can see the use for such options, when you don't want your users
> exiting X or even specific programs, but the default seems sensible. Is
> it just Fedora that change the defaults?

no, they changed the default from DontZap false to DontZap true. And all of 
its proponents are fedora/redhat devs. Because ctrl+alt+backspace is bad for 
emacs users (wtf? I have used emacs in the past - never a problem) or poor 
stupid people hit it accidentally (and what happens when you do it in 
windows?). So they changed this eternal old default. No matter that it is 
extremly usefull to quickly kill a misbehaving X - or as a nice way to log out 
of kde/gnome/whatever without having to click some confirmation first.

of course - ubuntu was happy about the change. But ubuntu is made for ...

grrrrrr

Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Stroller]

On 24 Jul 2009, at 12:53, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> ... Because ctrl+alt+backspace ... poor
> stupid people hit it accidentally (and what happens when you do it in
> windows?).

In Windows it (nowadays) takes you to a menu, which you can easily  
escape out of. That menu allows you to lock the screen session, bring  
up task manager, change your password or log out of the PC. I have no  
idea what it does on Linux, because Linux I use headless on servers.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Igor Nemilentsev]

> >   I don't know but do fedora's developers have an very serious
> >   influence on  Xorg development ?
>
> According to man xorg.conf, DontVTSwitch and DontZap both default to off.
> I can see the use for such options, when you don't want your users
> exiting X or even specific programs, but the default seems sensible. Is
> it just Fedora that change the defaults?
  Yes, this options is default "off". And this means that
  Zap and VTSwitch is allowed.( no dontzap)
  If option "DontZap" is "off" that means
  that Ctrl-Alt-Bs should work.
  Nonetheless the option DontVTSwitch acts as expected
  but DontZap doesn't.
  As I think it is embedded into source or into
  default compilation options that we are   forced ( if need)  to
  apply some things which   wasn't required before.
  As least if xorg is compiled with hal.
  By the way Ubuntu and Fedora have the package named dontzap.
  Why:)


Regards, Nemilentsev Igor
Email:trezorg@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] Re: DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[ABCD]

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Stroller wrote:

> In Windows it (nowadays) takes you to a menu, which you can easily
> escape out of. That menu allows you to lock the screen session, bring
> up task manager, change your password or log out of the PC. I have no
> idea what it does on Linux, because Linux I use headless on servers.

You are thinking of Ctrl-Alt-Del; in Windows, Ctrl-Alt-Bksp does 
application-specific tasks, such as acting like Ctrl-Bksp or Alt-Bksp, or 
not doing anything at all.  Ctrl-Alt-Bksp killing the X server is a 
surprising difference for the average Windows user.

- -- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Skippy]

Greetings, I'm having exactly the same problem and have been trying to
fix it.

Could you please specify where in xorg.conf you placed

setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp

And where is the hal configuration file you inserted

input.xkb.options terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp

Thanks so very much, this is driving me nuts!

Skippy



On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:44:59 +0300 (EEST)
Igor Nemilentsev <trezorg@gmail.com> wrote the words:

> 
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> > AFAIK, the DontZap option applies to the key sequences
> > <Alt> <Fx> to switch to a different terminal.
>   No, the Ctrl+Alt+Fn sequence behaviour is changed
>   with the option
>   Option "DontVTSwitch"
> 
> > I have the same problem here (same configuration), i.e.
> > <Ctrl><Alt><Del> doesn't work.
> >
> > If you can't exit via your window manager anymore,
> > I think, Neil Bothwick has posted the following advice
> > some days ago:
>   I figured out to return old style I need this command:
> 
>   setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
> 
>   Or add
>   input.xkb.options terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
>   in configuration file of hal.
> 
>   Thanks for the advice.
> 
> Regards, Nemilentsev Igor
> 

[gentoo-user] Re: DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[ABCD]

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Skippy wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> Greetings, I'm having exactly the same problem and have been trying to
> fix it.
> 
> Could you please specify where in xorg.conf you placed
> 
> setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
> 
> And where is the hal configuration file you inserted
> 
> input.xkb.options terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
> 
> Thanks so very much, this is driving me nuts!
> 
> Skippy
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:44:59 +0300 (EEST)
> Igor Nemilentsev <trezorg@gmail.com> wrote the words:
> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
>> > AFAIK, the DontZap option applies to the key sequences
>> > <Alt> <Fx> to switch to a different terminal.
>>   No, the Ctrl+Alt+Fn sequence behaviour is changed
>>   with the option
>>   Option "DontVTSwitch"
>> 
>> > I have the same problem here (same configuration), i.e.
>> > <Ctrl><Alt><Del> doesn't work.
>> >
>> > If you can't exit via your window manager anymore,
>> > I think, Neil Bothwick has posted the following advice
>> > some days ago:
>>   I figured out to return old style I need this command:
>> 
>>   setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
>> 
>>   Or add
>>   input.xkb.options terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
>>   in configuration file of hal.
>> 
>>   Thanks for the advice.
>> 
>> Regards, Nemilentsev Igor
>>

I'm not sure how it goes in xorg.conf, as I no longer use that to configure 
my keyboard driver (as I use "evdev", which is configured using HAL.

If you are using the "evdev" driver, then you need to edit HAL's config. To 
do so, create a new file /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-x11-input.fdi (or any other 
name in that directory that ends in ".fdi", they are checked in ASCIIbetical 
order, so "99-local.fdi" is used near the end...), and modify the following 
to match your own preferences:

- ----8<----

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<deviceinfo version="0.2">
 <match key="info.capabilities" contains="input.keys">
  <merge key="input.x11_driver" type="string">evdev</merge>
  <merge key="input.x11_options.XkbModel" type="string">evdev</merge>
  <merge key="input.x11_options.XkbLayout" type="string">us</merge>
  <merge key="input.x11_options.XkbVariant" type="string"></merge>
  <merge key="input.x11_options.XkbOptions" 
type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>
 </match
</deviceinfo>

- ----8<----

The format is a simple XML file, so it shouldn't be too hard to 
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Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Igor Nemilentsev]

>
> Greetings, I'm having exactly the same problem and have been trying to
> fix it.
>
> Could you please specify where in xorg.conf you placed
> setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
  Please enter it in command line.
> And where is the hal configuration file you inserted

> input.xkb.options terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
  I have it in /etc/hal/fdi/policy/
  I just added.

  <merge key="input.xkb.options"
  type="string">grp:caps_toggle,grp_led:scroll,grp:switch,compose:ralt,terminate:ctrl_alt_
  bksp</merge>

Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Skippy]

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:56:58 +0300 (EEST)
Igor Nemilentsev <trezorg@gmail.com> wrote the words:

> >
> > Greetings, I'm having exactly the same problem and have been trying
> > to fix it.
> >
> > Could you please specify where in xorg.conf you placed
> > setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
>   Please enter it in command line.
> > And where is the hal configuration file you inserted
> 
> > input.xkb.options terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
>   I have it in /etc/hal/fdi/policy/
>   I just added.
> 
>   <merge key="input.xkb.options"
>   type="string">grp:caps_toggle,grp_led:scroll,grp:switch,compose:ralt,terminate:ctrl_alt_
>   bksp</merge>
> 


Thanks so much for the specifics.  These still haven't fixed my
system.  Does anyone know if this is something the Gentoo developers
are going to fix down the road?  Highly annoying, as others have
already mentioned.

Skippy

Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 28 July 2009 13:23:13 Skippy wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:56:58 +0300 (EEST)
>
> Igor Nemilentsev <trezorg@gmail.com> wrote the words:
> > > Greetings, I'm having exactly the same problem and have been trying
> > > to fix it.
> > >
> > > Could you please specify where in xorg.conf you placed
> > > setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
> >
> >   Please enter it in command line.
> >
> > > And where is the hal configuration file you inserted
> > >
> > > input.xkb.options terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
> >
> >   I have it in /etc/hal/fdi/policy/
> >   I just added.
> >
> >   <merge key="input.xkb.options"
> >  
> > type="string">grp:caps_toggle,grp_led:scroll,grp:switch,compose:ralt,term
> >inate:ctrl_alt_ bksp</merge>
>
> Thanks so much for the specifics.  These still haven't fixed my
> system.  Does anyone know if this is something the Gentoo developers
> are going to fix down the road?  Highly annoying, as others have
> already mentioned.

The problem has little if anything to do with Gentoo developers (who keep 
things as close to upstream as possible), and everything to do with the 
upstream developers of Xorg and hal. The fix is per their timetable.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Skippy]

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:26:20 +0200
Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote the words:

> The problem has little if anything to do with Gentoo developers (who
> keep things as close to upstream as possible), and everything to do
> with the upstream developers of Xorg and hal. The fix is per their
> timetable.
> 
> -- 
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
> 

Yes, I get your point.  I didn't mean to imply the Gentoo folks are
doing this.  I should have asked - is there some kind of work around or
temporary fix that the Gentoo developers can implement until it's
really fixed.  :)

Skippy

Re: [gentoo-user] DontZap and Ctrl+Alt+Bs

[Helmut Jarausch]

On 28 Jul, Skippy wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:56:58 +0300 (EEST)
> Igor Nemilentsev <trezorg@gmail.com> wrote the words:
> 
>> >
>> > Greetings, I'm having exactly the same problem and have been trying
>> > to fix it.
>> >
>> > Could you please specify where in xorg.conf you placed
>> > setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
>>   Please enter it in command line.
>> > And where is the hal configuration file you inserted
>> 
>> > input.xkb.options terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
>>   I have it in /etc/hal/fdi/policy/
>>   I just added.
>> 
>>   <merge key="input.xkb.options"
>>   type="string">grp:caps_toggle,grp_led:scroll,grp:switch,compose:ralt,terminate:ctrl_alt_
>>   bksp</merge>
>> 
> 
> 
> Thanks so much for the specifics.  These still haven't fixed my
> system.  Does anyone know if this is something the Gentoo developers
> are going to fix down the road?  Highly annoying, as others have
> already mentioned.
> 

Here is my complete x11-input.fdi  which works just fine.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<deviceinfo version="0.2">
<device>
<match key="info.capabilities" contains="input.keyboard">
<append key="info.callouts.add" type="strlist">hal-setup-keymap</append>
 <merge key="input.x11_options.XkbModel" type="string">microsoft</merge>
 <merge key="input.x11_options.XkbRules" type="string">xorg</merge>
 <merge key="input.x11_options.XkbLayout" type="string">en_US</merge>
 <merge key="input.xkb.layout" type="string">en_US</merge>
 <merge key="input.xkb.model" type="string">microsoft</merge>
 <merge key="input.xkb.rules" type="string">xorg</merge>
 <merge key="input.xkb.options" type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge></match>
</device>
</deviceinfo>

This is with an hal enabled x11-base/xorg-server-1.6.2-r1 and all
x11-drivers, especially 

x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev
x11-drivers/xf86-input-keyboard
x11-drivers/xf86-input-mouse

re-emergered after mering xorg-server.

Helmut.

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany