[gentoo-user] AUTO: Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus.

[gentoo-user] AUTO: Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus.

[Martin Schrodi]

Ich werde ab  28.04.2009 nicht im Büro sein. Ich kehre zurück am
29.04.2009.

Ich werde Ihre Nachricht nach meiner Rückkehr beantworten.


Note: This is an automated response to your message  "[gentoo-user] AUTO:
Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus." sent on 28/4/09 11:13:49.

You will receive a notification for each message you send to this person
while the person is away.

Re: [gentoo-user] AUTO: Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus.

[Daniel de Oliveira]

Where is the moderation?

2009/4/28 Martin Schrodi <Martin.Schrodi@retarus.de>:
>
> Ich werde ab  28.04.2009 nicht im Büro sein. Ich kehre zurück am
> 29.04.2009.
>
> Ich werde Ihre Nachricht nach meiner Rückkehr beantworten.
>
>
> Note: This is an automated response to your message  "[gentoo-user] AUTO:
> Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus." sent on 28/4/09 11:13:49.
>
> You will receive a notification for each message you send to this person
> while the person is away.
>
>
>



-- 
Daniel de Oliveira
----
Network and System Analyst
Security Specialist
IBM RISC Specialist
IBM Storage Specialist
Linux/Unix Specialist
Linux User #: 405334

Re: [gentoo-user] AUTO: Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus.

[KH]

Daniel de Oliveira schrieb:
> Where is the moderation?
> 
> 2009/4/28 Martin Schrodi <Martin.Schrodi@retarus.de>:
>> Ich werde ab  28.04.2009 nicht im Büro sein. Ich kehre zurück am
>> 29.04.2009.
>>
>> Ich werde Ihre Nachricht nach meiner Rückkehr beantworten.
>>
>>
>> Note: This is an automated response to your message  "[gentoo-user] AUTO:
>> Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus." sent on 28/4/09 11:13:49.
>>
>> You will receive a notification for each message you send to this person
>> while the person is away.
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
Please don't do top posting.

Re: [gentoo-user] AUTO: Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus.

[AllenJB]

Please don't complain about top posting on this list. This is a public 
support list with no enforced rules regarding top posting.

If you don't like top posting: Tough.

(See also the many times this has been discussed previously, with the 
same conclusion)

AllenJB

KH wrote:
> Daniel de Oliveira schrieb:
>> Where is the moderation?
>>
>> 2009/4/28 Martin Schrodi <Martin.Schrodi@retarus.de>:
>>> Ich werde ab  28.04.2009 nicht im Büro sein. Ich kehre zurück am
>>> 29.04.2009.
>>>
>>> Ich werde Ihre Nachricht nach meiner Rückkehr beantworten.
>>>
>>>
>>> Note: This is an automated response to your message  "[gentoo-user] AUTO:
>>> Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus." sent on 28/4/09 11:13:49.
>>>
>>> You will receive a notification for each message you send to this person
>>> while the person is away.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> Please don't do top posting.
> 

Re: [gentoo-user] AUTO: Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus.

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Dienstag 28 April 2009, AllenJB wrote:
> Please don't complain about top posting on this list. This is a public
> support list with no enforced rules regarding top posting.
>
> If you don't like top posting: Tough.
>
> (See also the many times this has been discussed previously, with the
> same conclusion)
>

the conclusion was that people insisting on top posting are rude. There are no 
enforcers but the rules of netiquette still apply.

If you want to mark yourself as a?????e  well, continue this way..

Re: [gentoo-user] AUTO: Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus.

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:17:36 +0100, AllenJB wrote:

> Please don't complain about top posting on this list. This is a public 
> support list with no enforced rules regarding top posting.

So we need enforced rules to be polite and respect the wishes of others
these days? Has the nanny state really reached this list?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

People who eat natural foods die from natural causes.

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Re: [gentoo-user] AUTO: Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus.

[AllenJB]

The problem is that there's no consensus. I top post because I think 
it's much more sensible. Others think otherwise. I live with it.

It's the people who refuse to live with differences of opinion that are 
the real problem.

AllenJB

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:17:36 +0100, AllenJB wrote:
> 
>> Please don't complain about top posting on this list. This is a public 
>> support list with no enforced rules regarding top posting.
> 
> So we need enforced rules to be polite and respect the wishes of others
> these days? Has the nanny state really reached this list?
> 
> 

Re: [gentoo-user] AUTO: Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus.

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Dienstag 28 April 2009, AllenJB wrote:
> The problem is that there's no consensus. I top post because I think
> it's much more sensible. Others think otherwise. I live with it.
>
> It's the people who refuse to live with differences of opinion that are
> the real problem.

no, there is a consensus: top posting is bad. It is stupid for technical and 
semantic reasons. 

The bad things are people like you 'invading' a mailing list and refuse to 
adhere to the common standards there.

Re: [gentoo-user] AUTO: Martin Schrodi ist außer Haus.

[Saphirus Sage]

Top posting is sometimes a necessary evil, for instance, when replying  
on mobiles. However, I tend to hypocritically agree that top-posting  
is bad.

On Apr 28, 2009, at 12:08 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com 
 > wrote:

> On Dienstag 28 April 2009, AllenJB wrote:
>> The problem is that there's no consensus. I top post because I think
>> it's much more sensible. Others think otherwise. I live with it.
>>
>> It's the people who refuse to live with differences of opinion that  
>> are
>> the real problem.
>
> no, there is a consensus: top posting is bad. It is stupid for  
> technical and
> semantic reasons.
>
> The bad things are people like you 'invading' a mailing list and  
> refuse to
> adhere to the common standards there.
>

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Daniel Iliev]

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:51:41 +0100
AllenJB <gentoo-lists@allenjb.me.uk> wrote:

> The problem is that there's no consensus. I top post because I think 
> it's much more sensible. Others think otherwise. I live with it.
> 
> It's the people who refuse to live with differences of opinion that
> are the real problem.
> 
> AllenJB
> 


It's your choice weather to stay rfc-ignorant and "different".
I shall follow the recommendations of IETF then yours.


	RFC 1855, Section 3.1.1:

"If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
enough text of the original to give a context."


http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855


-- 
Best regards,
Daniel

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[William Hubbs]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

All,

I don't normally get involved in these threads, but I want to point out
another reason for top posting.

As a blind computer user, sometimes it is more convenient to top post,
because I don't know of a way to make my screen reading software skip
over all of the quoted material.  I find it more convenient sometimes to
hear the newest material first.

William

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 07:12:18PM +0300, Daniel Iliev wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:51:41 +0100
> AllenJB <gentoo-lists@allenjb.me.uk> wrote:
> 
> > The problem is that there's no consensus. I top post because I think 
> > it's much more sensible. Others think otherwise. I live with it.
> > 
> > It's the people who refuse to live with differences of opinion that
> > are the real problem.
> > 
> > AllenJB
> > 
> 
> 
> It's your choice weather to stay rfc-ignorant and "different".
> I shall follow the recommendations of IETF then yours.
> 
> 
> 	RFC 1855, Section 3.1.1:
> 
> "If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
> enough text of the original to give a context."
> 
> 
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Daniel
> 
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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:03:43 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:

> As a blind computer user, sometimes it is more convenient to top post,
> because I don't know of a way to make my screen reading software skip
> over all of the quoted material.  I find it more convenient sometimes to
> hear the newest material first.

That's an interesting point, and the first real justification for
top-posting I've seen. Although I would have thought it should be
possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip them.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Marc Meyer]

Neil Bothwick schrieb:
> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:03:43 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
>
>   
> Although I would have thought it should be
> possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip them.
>
>
>   
Whats the point of quoting then?

M.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Dienstag 28 April 2009, Marc Meyer wrote:
> Neil Bothwick schrieb:
> > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:03:43 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
> >
> >
> > Although I would have thought it should be
> > possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip them.
>
> Whats the point of quoting then?
>
> M.

most people want quotes. If one user decides to hide them, that is their local 
decision.

Me - I am annoyed by top-posters. emails by top posters are usually not worth 
the time spent reading them or the space on my harddisk. 

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 20:51:14 +0200, Marc Meyer wrote:

> > Although I would have thought it should be
> > possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip
> > them.

> Whats the point of quoting then?

Sothe recipient has the conversation in context, yet individual users
with special circumstances still have the option of hiding them.

I hide heavily nested quotes in Claws,making mails easier to read on
my netbook's small screen, but they can still be read at the click of a 
mouse.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

There are some micro-organisms that exhibit characteristics of both
plants and animals.  When exposed to light they undergo photosynthesis;
and when the lights go out, they turn into animals.  But then again,
don't we all?

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 28 April 2009 20:39:29 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:03:43 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
> > As a blind computer user, sometimes it is more convenient to top post,
> > because I don't know of a way to make my screen reading software skip
> > over all of the quoted material.  I find it more convenient sometimes to
> > hear the newest material first.
>
> That's an interesting point, and the first real justification for
> top-posting I've seen. Although I would have thought it should be
> possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip them.

I'm sure the regulars here will be quite happy to make an exception for the 
few blind users we have. Just like we tolerate the BlackBerry users who cannot 
post any other way.

As for the rest who think it's their right to ignore long-established 
unwritten (but no less valid) codes of conduct, I just do to them the same 
thing I do to stupid users at work who refuse to use English:

plonk.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Tuesday 28 April 2009 20:39:29 Neil Bothwick wrote:
>   
>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:03:43 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
>>     
>>> As a blind computer user, sometimes it is more convenient to top post,
>>> because I don't know of a way to make my screen reading software skip
>>> over all of the quoted material.  I find it more convenient sometimes to
>>> hear the newest material first.
>>>       
>> That's an interesting point, and the first real justification for
>> top-posting I've seen. Although I would have thought it should be
>> possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip them.
>>     
>
> I'm sure the regulars here will be quite happy to make an exception for the 
> few blind users we have. Just like we tolerate the BlackBerry users who cannot 
> post any other way.
>
> As for the rest who think it's their right to ignore long-established 
> unwritten (but no less valid) codes of conduct, I just do to them the same 
> thing I do to stupid users at work who refuse to use English:
>
> plonk.
>
>
>   

And there is always the blacklist as well.  Once added to that, it's
hard to get back off the list.  After all, if they send them a email to
ask to get took off, they won't get the message.  o_O

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[thomas blomme]

2009/4/28 Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com>:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On Tuesday 28 April 2009 20:39:29 Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:03:43 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> As a blind computer user, sometimes it is more convenient to top post,
>>>> because I don't know of a way to make my screen reading software skip
>>>> over all of the quoted material.  I find it more convenient sometimes to
>>>> hear the newest material first.
>>>>
>>> That's an interesting point, and the first real justification for
>>> top-posting I've seen. Although I would have thought it should be
>>> possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip them.
>>>
>>
>> I'm sure the regulars here will be quite happy to make an exception for the
>> few blind users we have. Just like we tolerate the BlackBerry users who cannot
>> post any other way.
>>
>> As for the rest who think it's their right to ignore long-established
>> unwritten (but no less valid) codes of conduct, I just do to them the same
>> thing I do to stupid users at work who refuse to use English:
>>
>> plonk.
>>
>>
>>
>
> And there is always the blacklist as well.  Once added to that, it's
> hard to get back off the list.  After all, if they send them a email to
> ask to get took off, they won't get the message.  o_O
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
>

Is there a way in gmail to put top-posting off?


-- 
mvg,
thomas
Het Gemet 29
8800 Roeselare

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Ward Poelmans]

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 21:26, thomas blomme <blommethomas@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a way in gmail to put top-posting off?

Not that i know of. But there is a "Quote selected text" feature in labs.

Ward

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Paul Hartman]

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:26 PM, thomas blomme <blommethomas@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/4/28 Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com>:
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 28 April 2009 20:39:29 Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:03:43 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As a blind computer user, sometimes it is more convenient to top post,
>>>>> because I don't know of a way to make my screen reading software skip
>>>>> over all of the quoted material.  I find it more convenient sometimes to
>>>>> hear the newest material first.
>>>>>
>>>> That's an interesting point, and the first real justification for
>>>> top-posting I've seen. Although I would have thought it should be
>>>> possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip them.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sure the regulars here will be quite happy to make an exception for the
>>> few blind users we have. Just like we tolerate the BlackBerry users who cannot
>>> post any other way.
>>>
>>> As for the rest who think it's their right to ignore long-established
>>> unwritten (but no less valid) codes of conduct, I just do to them the same
>>> thing I do to stupid users at work who refuse to use English:
>>>
>>> plonk.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And there is always the blacklist as well.  Once added to that, it's
>> hard to get back off the list.  After all, if they send them a email to
>> ask to get took off, they won't get the message.  o_O
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>
>>
>
> Is there a way in gmail to put top-posting off?

Gmail does proper quoting, it just puts the cursor in the wrong place
by default (but the place most users want it, I would guess). Also as
Ward pointed out, there is a feature where it will quote only what you
have highlighted -- a great feature that I miss from my old OS/2 email
client.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[thomas blomme]

2009/4/28 Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com>:
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:26 PM, thomas blomme <blommethomas@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2009/4/28 Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com>:
>>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday 28 April 2009 20:39:29 Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:03:43 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As a blind computer user, sometimes it is more convenient to top post,
>>>>>> because I don't know of a way to make my screen reading software skip
>>>>>> over all of the quoted material.  I find it more convenient sometimes to
>>>>>> hear the newest material first.
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's an interesting point, and the first real justification for
>>>>> top-posting I've seen. Although I would have thought it should be
>>>>> possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip them.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure the regulars here will be quite happy to make an exception for the
>>>> few blind users we have. Just like we tolerate the BlackBerry users who cannot
>>>> post any other way.
>>>>
>>>> As for the rest who think it's their right to ignore long-established
>>>> unwritten (but no less valid) codes of conduct, I just do to them the same
>>>> thing I do to stupid users at work who refuse to use English:
>>>>
>>>> plonk.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> And there is always the blacklist as well.  Once added to that, it's
>>> hard to get back off the list.  After all, if they send them a email to
>>> ask to get took off, they won't get the message.  o_O
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>>> :-)  :-)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Is there a way in gmail to put top-posting off?
>
> Gmail does proper quoting, it just puts the cursor in the wrong place
> by default (but the place most users want it, I would guess). Also as
> Ward pointed out, there is a feature where it will quote only what you
> have highlighted -- a great feature that I miss from my old OS/2 email
> client.
>
>

Thanks for the kind replies,
I figured out this could be something usefull which I will try not to forget!

-- 
mvg,
thomas
Het Gemet 29
8800 Roeselare

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Dale]

thomas blomme wrote:
> 2009/4/28 Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com>:
>   
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:26 PM, thomas blomme <blommethomas@gmail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>>
>>> Is there a way in gmail to put top-posting off?
>>>       
>> Gmail does proper quoting, it just puts the cursor in the wrong place
>> by default (but the place most users want it, I would guess). Also as
>> Ward pointed out, there is a feature where it will quote only what you
>> have highlighted -- a great feature that I miss from my old OS/2 email
>> client.
>>
>>
>>     
>
> Thanks for the kind replies,
> I figured out this could be something usefull which I will try not to forget!
>
>   

I always put the pointer where I want my cursor to be and then click. 
Works every time for me.  Keep in mind, I use POP access not the web thingy.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Dienstag, 28. April 2009 21:45:34 schrieb Dale:

> I always put the pointer where I want my cursor to be and then click.
> Works every time for me.

Now that you mention it - yes, works fine for me to ;) Worth a FAQ entry.

*SCNR*

Bye...

	Dirk

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Dale]

Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 28. April 2009 21:45:34 schrieb Dale:
>
>   
>> I always put the pointer where I want my cursor to be and then click.
>> Works every time for me.
>>     
>
> Now that you mention it - yes, works fine for me to ;) Worth a FAQ entry.
>
> *SCNR*
>
> Bye...
>
> 	Dirk
>   

I have mine setup locally to bottom post.  So, If I reply to a friends,
not on this list, then I have to put my pointer up at the top to reply. 
I thought it might work.

I was also hoping you could see the humor in my reply as well. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Dienstag, 28. April 2009 22:45:53 schrieb Dale:

> I was also hoping you could see the humor in my reply as well.

Well, I did :)

Bye...

	Dirk

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Dienstag 28 April 2009, Paul Hartman wrote:
> Also as
> Ward pointed out, there is a feature where it will quote only what you
> have highlighted -- a great feature that I miss from my old OS/2 email
> client.

kmail does that - I use kmail for all my 6 email accounts - including google 
mail.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Daniel de Oliveira]

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/6076

Better Gmail has an option to bottom post, also, Folder4Gmail (because
I also use gmail as imap, and looks better).

-- 
Daniel de Oliveira
----
Network and System Analyst
Security Specialist
IBM RISC Specialist
IBM Storage Specialist
Linux/Unix Specialist
Linux User #: 405334

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 28 April 2009 21:47:29 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Dienstag 28 April 2009, Paul Hartman wrote:
> > Also as
> > Ward pointed out, there is a feature where it will quote only what you
> > have highlighted -- a great feature that I miss from my old OS/2 email
> > client.
>
> kmail does that - I use kmail for all my 6 email accounts - including
> google mail.

kmail rocks - I use it here too. It does calendars sanely, copes with Imap to 
exchange at work and doesn't collapse to jelly every time I access the 
Exchange GAL with LDAP - unlike some other PIM apps I could mention 
<cough>Evolution<cough>.

It's still a bit unstable with dodgy maildirs though - it doesn't like having 
to deal with corrupted mail files and this can caue a crash.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Dienstag 28 April 2009, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Tuesday 28 April 2009 21:47:29 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > On Dienstag 28 April 2009, Paul Hartman wrote:
> > > Also as
> > > Ward pointed out, there is a feature where it will quote only what you
> > > have highlighted -- a great feature that I miss from my old OS/2 email
> > > client.
> >
> > kmail does that - I use kmail for all my 6 email accounts - including
> > google mail.
>
> kmail rocks - I use it here too. It does calendars sanely, copes with Imap
> to exchange at work and doesn't collapse to jelly every time I access the
> Exchange GAL with LDAP - unlike some other PIM apps I could mention
> <cough>Evolution<cough>.
>
> It's still a bit unstable with dodgy maildirs though - it doesn't like
> having to deal with corrupted mail files and this can caue a crash.

I haven't had a kmail crash in ages - even with corrupted mail files. But 
after a hard shutdown it might be necessary to remove the index files and let 
kmail rebuild them.

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Grant Edwards]

On 2009-04-28, thomas blomme <blommethomas@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is there a way in gmail to put top-posting off?

Mutt+IMAP

;)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Like I always say
                                  at               -- nothing can beat
                               visi.com            the BRATWURST here in
                                                   DUSSELDORF!!

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Daniel Barkalow]

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009, thomas blomme wrote:

> Is there a way in gmail to put top-posting off?

I think Gmail (and alpine) pretty much do the right thing (except for 
sticking in some blank lines at the beginning). It's best to put the 
cursor at the top so that you can trim what you're quoting down to the 
relevant parts and insert responses inline in order. If it put the cursor 
at the bottom, you'd have to jump to the top, only reply at the end 
(which nobody likes, since it means there's a ton of quoted text that 
you're not really responding to sitting in your message), or write your 
reply backwards moving up.

The issue, in my opinion, isn't starting at the top, it's failing to end 
at the bottom.

	-Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[William Hubbs]

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Hi Neal and all,

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 07:39:29PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> That's an interesting point, and the first real justification for
> top-posting I've seen. Although I would have thought it should be
> possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip them.
 
 Well, I use mutt when I am working in linux, do you know of a way to do
 this with mutt?

Also, what is your take on conversational style quoting (I'm calling it
that because I don't know what else to call it)... What I mean is the
quote and the reply mixed together sort of like a conversation might be.

William

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:02:30 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:

> > That's an interesting point, and the first real justification for
> > top-posting I've seen. Although I would have thought it should be
> > possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip
> > them.  
>  
>  Well, I use mutt when I am working in linux, do you know of a way to do
>  this with mutt?

Sorry, no. I do this with Claws Mail.
 
> Also, what is your take on conversational style quoting (I'm calling it
> that because I don't know what else to call it)... What I mean is the
> quote and the reply mixed together sort of like a conversation might be.

I think that is exactly how emails should be written.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"Press Return to Continue" - known as "The Mail Menupause".

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[gentoo-user] Re: [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Moshe Kamensky]

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* William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org> [28/04/09 17:06]:
> Hi Neal and all,
> 
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 07:39:29PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > That's an interesting point, and the first real justification for
> > top-posting I've seen. Although I would have thought it should be
> > possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip them.
>  
>  Well, I use mutt when I am working in linux, do you know of a way to do
>  this with mutt?

The action name is toggle-quote, mapped to T by default.

Moshe


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Willie Wong]

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 09:08:39PM -0400, Penguin Lover Moshe Kamensky squawked:
> * William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org> [28/04/09 17:06]:
> > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 07:39:29PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > > That's an interesting point, and the first real justification for
> > > top-posting I've seen. Although I would have thought it should be
> > > possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip them.
> >  
> >  Well, I use mutt when I am working in linux, do you know of a way to do
> >  this with mutt?
> 
> The action name is toggle-quote, mapped to T by default.

To be pedantic, the command that better matches Neil's description is
skip-quote, which is mapped to S by default. Thought I agree that
toggle-quote may be (really depends on the OP) suited for the intended
purpose. 

Best, 

W

-- 
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for a day, but give him a case of 
dynamite and soon the village will be showered with mud and seaweed and 
unidentifiable chunks of fish.
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 873 days,  9:50

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Willie Wong]

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 07:05:22AM -0400, Penguin Lover Willie Wong squawked:
> To be pedantic, the command that better matches Neil's description is
> skip-quote, which is mapped to S by default. Thought I agree that
> toggle-quote may be (really depends on the OP) suited for the intended
> purpose. 
> 

Also... not knowing how screen readers work, just in case when reading
a sentence it does not differentiate between isolated upper case and
lower case letters: the key for toggle-quote is upper case T; the key
for skip-quote is upper case S. 

W
-- 
"`This must be Thursday,' said Arthur to himself, sinking 
low over his beer, `I never could get the hang of 
Thursdays.'" 

- Arthur, on what was to be his last Thursday on Earth. 
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 873 days, 12:09

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[Daniel Barkalow]

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009, William Hubbs wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 07:39:29PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > That's an interesting point, and the first real justification for
> > top-posting I've seen. Although I would have thought it should be
> > possible to have your mailer hide quotes and the reader then skip them.
>  
>  Well, I use mutt when I am working in linux, do you know of a way to do
>  this with mutt?

I don't know about mutt, but there's a flag in alpine to color quoted 
text. It might be possible to get your screen reader to use different 
voices for different colors and make it sound like the conversation it 
actually is.

	-Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT:netiquete] was AUTO: Martin...

[William Hubbs]

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Hi Daniel,

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 05:17:04PM -0400, Daniel Barkalow wrote:
> I don't know about mutt, but there's a flag in alpine to color quoted 
> text. It might be possible to get your screen reader to use different 
> voices for different colors and make it sound like the conversation it 
> actually is.
 
This is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure that it has ever been
done.

William

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