From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LV9cP-0007YD-Sq for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 05 Feb 2009 19:10:34 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B48E4E0329; Thu, 5 Feb 2009 19:10:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ew0-f16.google.com (mail-ew0-f16.google.com [209.85.219.16]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57BC7E0329 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 2009 19:10:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ewy9 with SMTP id 9so31755ewy.10 for ; Thu, 05 Feb 2009 11:10:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:subject:date :user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:message-id; bh=c3/zn/2zjsHMMU0IcmpReeNI3KsIf3hT8DM8Inzyldc=; b=VWubuoL1F/U+9RoM6cK2/TqIs8tjDlngu3qS35hLl0pWgOAXhqkSPStJf1kyVaHrMK PqCvRYUEBFPK0bpZn345Y6XOVjmDFstg7qrokvBv+yXXgFREmrlfjeKBhFn3B6LftIDM Inq5vRTBywSU8hL97hSEuOuXeeaU3F4jQf9nc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :message-id; b=xBpccowkCgmDdYRQvYv1RGnk5meL3lw+KxTaHOvzq/ZsjR+I0dFWhFzT4V6nHD0Xjp HSNCGmeFpki6JCQUm4RGl3GhBXHQ865OM+0vs1wSYQFIN+w2ZuYpXBcA9RKNSk4LDeAM htc6qX5CzlW88c28SJkPhbkBploq5iDFAlJFY= Received: by 10.210.66.13 with SMTP id o13mr618545eba.21.1233861029771; Thu, 05 Feb 2009 11:10:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from energy.localnet (energy.heim10.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.197.94]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 11sm1854508ewy.89.2009.02.05.11.10.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 05 Feb 2009 11:10:29 -0800 (PST) From: Volker Armin Hemmann To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh? Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 20:10:25 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.11.0 (Linux/2.6.27.13r4; KDE/4.2.0; x86_64; ; ) References: <200902051301.48888.volkerarmin@googlemail.com> <498B3743.5030201@kutulu.org> In-Reply-To: <498B3743.5030201@kutulu.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200902052010.25653.volkerarmin@googlemail.com> X-Archives-Salt: ce79b42f-27fb-4d2a-a394-19b58bc4682f X-Archives-Hash: 28f048376f7144205973a0b47cdd8a38 On Donnerstag 05 Februar 2009, Mike Edenfield wrote: > On 2/5/2009 7:01 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > no. He is an idiot if he does not read the docs. Simple. Like people who > > don't read the manual to their car or vcr and then complaining if > > something does not work. Idiots. > > "They should read the manual" is *not* a valid design goal for a system. > At best, it's a justification or rationalization when outside > constraints force a design to be non-intuitive. > > Given the choice between two otherwise equally functional systems (of > any sort -- electronic, mechanical, digital, etc); if one requires me to > spend extensive time reading an instruction manual to use and the other > is designed to be easy to use out of the box -- the "idiot" is the > person wasting their time reading instead of being productive. and not one single complex system is 'idiotproof'. > To use > your own example, I have no problem figuring out how to start my car, > turn on the A/C, tune my radio, and drive to work without reading the > automobile manual. but before you were even allowed to drive a car you had to take lessons and pass a test. > > If Gentoo's installer *has* to be difficult because it's the only way to > supply additional benefits or features, that's a perfectly reasonable > argument. If Gentoo's installer is *stuck* being difficult because > there is a lack of resources interested in making it better, that's an > upsetting, but equally reasonable argument. > > If Gentoo's installer is difficult *on purpose* just to make Gentoo hard > to use, that's ridiculous. gentoo's installer is EASY if you just read the docs.