Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 27 January 2009 17:46:46 Grant Edwards wrote:
> I realize I'm arguing a moot point, but using something like
> .docx for shared documents that need to be maintained by
> multiple people for a long time (more than a month or two) is a
> dead awful choice.
>
> A plain ascii text file is probably the best choice for
> portability and longevity.  However, that suggestion's probably
> not going to fly because it severly limits the amount of time
> you can waste picking out eye-shatteringly ugly font
> combinations and f*&king up margins, gutters, leading, and all
> the other things people like to mess up rather than doing real
> work.

The management and I have an agreement:

They do not get to tell me who gets access to the company's core 
infrastructure.
I do not get to set company policy.

The latter applies here.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Grant Edwards]

On 2009-01-27, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 January 2009 17:46:46 Grant Edwards wrote:
>> I realize I'm arguing a moot point, but using something like
>> .docx for shared documents that need to be maintained by
>> multiple people for a long time (more than a month or two) is a
>> dead awful choice.
>>[...]
>
> The management and I have an agreement:
>
> They do not get to tell me who gets access to the company's core 
> infrastructure.
> I do not get to set company policy.
>
> The latter applies here.

Yea, I assumed something like that to be the case and that it
was a moot argument. Perhaps somebody else will learn from it,
but those most likely in need probably don't frequent this
list -- making it doubly moot.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Boy, am I glad it's
                                  at               only 1971...
                               visi.com            

[gentoo-user] Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Alan McKinnon]

Hi all,

Other than Office 2007 is there any software out there that can *write* .docx?

Work requires me to use this format sometimes (it's not negotiable) and I can 
get around it 95% of the time, but the 5% causes me insane amounts of grief. 
Even though Office2007 runs perfectly well in CrossOver, I have to put up 
with that stupid bouncing ribbon, menus that are not there and <shock> 
<horror> <disgust> a productivity app that insists on launching all it's 
windows undecorated (this last is the worst of the worst...).

Ooo-3 can read these docs but not write them.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Peter Ruskin]

On Monday 26 January 2009, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Other than Office 2007 is there any software out there that can
> *write* .docx?
>
> Work requires me to use this format sometimes (it's not
> negotiable) and I can get around it 95% of the time, but the 5%
> causes me insane amounts of grief. Even though Office2007 runs
> perfectly well in CrossOver, I have to put up with that stupid
> bouncing ribbon, menus that are not there and <shock> <horror>
> <disgust> a productivity app that insists on launching all it's
> windows undecorated (this last is the worst of the worst...).
>
> Ooo-3 can read these docs but not write them.

As far as I can see, Ooo-3 _can_ write MSOffice files.  Just open 
any OpenOffice document and try "Save As".

-- 
Peter
========================================================================
Gentoo Linux: Portage 2.2_rc23			kernel-2.6.25-gentoo-r6
AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4400+	gcc(GCC): 4.1.2
KDE: 3.5.9					Qt: 3.3.8b
========================================================================

Re: [gentoo-user] Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Paul Hartman]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Peter Ruskin
<peter.ruskin@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> On Monday 26 January 2009, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Other than Office 2007 is there any software out there that can
>> *write* .docx?
>>
>> Work requires me to use this format sometimes (it's not
>> negotiable) and I can get around it 95% of the time, but the 5%
>> causes me insane amounts of grief. Even though Office2007 runs
>> perfectly well in CrossOver, I have to put up with that stupid
>> bouncing ribbon, menus that are not there and <shock> <horror>
>> <disgust> a productivity app that insists on launching all it's
>> windows undecorated (this last is the worst of the worst...).
>>
>> Ooo-3 can read these docs but not write them.
>
> As far as I can see, Ooo-3 _can_ write MSOffice files.  Just open
> any OpenOffice document and try "Save As".

Does not support writing Office 2007 OOXML format on OOo 3.0 here.
Only old Office 97-2003 (binary .doc) format.

I think Go-OO has an odf-converter program that can convert OOo
documents to OOXML but I don't think there is a gentoo package and
last time I read about it, it was very raw (you'll lose
data/formatting when converting).

Paul

Re: [gentoo-user] Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 26 January 2009 23:38:46 Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Peter Ruskin
>
> <peter.ruskin@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> > On Monday 26 January 2009, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Other than Office 2007 is there any software out there that can
> >> *write* .docx?
> >>
> >> Work requires me to use this format sometimes (it's not
> >> negotiable) and I can get around it 95% of the time, but the 5%
> >> causes me insane amounts of grief. Even though Office2007 runs
> >> perfectly well in CrossOver, I have to put up with that stupid
> >> bouncing ribbon, menus that are not there and <shock> <horror>
> >> <disgust> a productivity app that insists on launching all it's
> >> windows undecorated (this last is the worst of the worst...).
> >>
> >> Ooo-3 can read these docs but not write them.
> >
> > As far as I can see, Ooo-3 _can_ write MSOffice files.  Just open
> > any OpenOffice document and try "Save As".
>
> Does not support writing Office 2007 OOXML format on OOo 3.0 here.
> Only old Office 97-2003 (binary .doc) format.
>
> I think Go-OO has an odf-converter program that can convert OOo
> documents to OOXML but I don't think there is a gentoo package and
> last time I read about it, it was very raw (you'll lose
> data/formatting when converting).

I have a stock standard openoffice-3.0.0 here (not bin) and it claims to write 
Office 2003 XML. I believe from colleagues that this is not the same as 
2007 .docx and I believe them as my Office 2003 in Crossover cannot 
open .docx

I could be wrong though - I don't know all the ins and outs of MS's latest 
format decisions

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Nikos Chantziaras]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> I have a stock standard openoffice-3.0.0 here (not bin) and it claims to write 
> Office 2003 XML. I believe from colleagues that this is not the same as 
> 2007 .docx and I believe them as my Office 2003 in Crossover cannot 
> open .docx
> 
> I could be wrong though - I don't know all the ins and outs of MS's latest 
> format decisions

You can write in 2003 format.  I think Office 2007 should open them just 
fine, or?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 27 January 2009 00:16:04 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > I have a stock standard openoffice-3.0.0 here (not bin) and it claims to
> > write Office 2003 XML. I believe from colleagues that this is not the
> > same as 2007 .docx and I believe them as my Office 2003 in Crossover
> > cannot open .docx
> >
> > I could be wrong though - I don't know all the ins and outs of MS's
> > latest format decisions
>
> You can write in 2003 format.  I think Office 2007 should open them just
> fine, or?

These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are based on my own 
preferences.

I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only one that does it, 
so be it. But a workaround or another way to skin this cat is not what I need 
here.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Grant Edwards]

On 2009-01-26, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are
> based on my own preferences.
>
> I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only
> one that does it, so be it. But a workaround or another way to
> skin this cat is not what I need here.

In my experience, finding an app that writes .docx isn't going
to be good enough if the documents are shared.  If you're
exporting or importing something just one time, you can get
usually away with it after some minor fixing afterwards.

But if it's a shared document and needs to be edited multiple
times by multiple people, you just can't get away with using
two different apps -- hell, not even two different versions of
MSWord. If you go back and forth many times, the document will
steadily "deteriorate" with each transition from one app to
another.  At least that's my experience.

Sorry.

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 27 January 2009 06:29:55 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-01-26, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are
> > based on my own preferences.
> >
> > I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only
> > one that does it, so be it. But a workaround or another way to
> > skin this cat is not what I need here.
>
> In my experience, finding an app that writes .docx isn't going
> to be good enough if the documents are shared.  If you're
> exporting or importing something just one time, you can get
> usually away with it after some minor fixing afterwards.
>
> But if it's a shared document and needs to be edited multiple
> times by multiple people, you just can't get away with using
> two different apps -- hell, not even two different versions of
> MSWord. If you go back and forth many times, the document will
> steadily "deteriorate" with each transition from one app to
> another.  At least that's my experience.
>
> Sorry.

That's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well. Thanks for sharing 
though :-)



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Grant Edwards]

On 2009-01-27, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 January 2009 06:29:55 Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2009-01-26, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are
>> > based on my own preferences.
>> >
>> > I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only
>> > one that does it, so be it. But a workaround or another way to
>> > skin this cat is not what I need here.
>>
>> In my experience, finding an app that writes .docx isn't going
>> to be good enough if the documents are shared.  If you're
>> exporting or importing something just one time, you can get
>> usually away with it after some minor fixing afterwards.
>>
>> But if it's a shared document and needs to be edited multiple
>> times by multiple people, you just can't get away with using
>> two different apps -- hell, not even two different versions of
>> MSWord. If you go back and forth many times, the document will
>> steadily "deteriorate" with each transition from one app to
>> another.  At least that's my experience.
>
> That's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well. Thanks
> for sharing though :-)

I realize I'm arguing a moot point, but using something like
.docx for shared documents that need to be maintained by
multiple people for a long time (more than a month or two) is a
dead awful choice.

A plain ascii text file is probably the best choice for
portability and longevity.  However, that suggestion's probably
not going to fly because it severly limits the amount of time
you can waste picking out eye-shatteringly ugly font
combinations and f*&king up margins, gutters, leading, and all
the other things people like to mess up rather than doing real
work.

My next choice would probably be something like RTF.  If you
get into a jam it's mostly-human-readible. If you limit
yourself to simple formatting features it's about as portable
and robust as anything you can find that allows the inclusion
of graphics.  The support for vector graphics (e.g. SVG) is
pretty slim, but bit-mapped graphics support works pretty well.

HTML would seem to be a good choice as well, but even more than
RTF you've got to limit what features you use. The only way to
keep the file from deteriorating into a mess is to avoid any of
"WYSIWYG" HTML editors.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! does your DRESSING
                                  at               ROOM have enough ASPARAGUS?
                               visi.com            

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Paul Hartman]

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com> wrote:
> On 2009-01-27, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday 27 January 2009 06:29:55 Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> On 2009-01-26, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are
>>> > based on my own preferences.
>>> >
>>> > I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only
>>> > one that does it, so be it. But a workaround or another way to
>>> > skin this cat is not what I need here.
>>>
>>> In my experience, finding an app that writes .docx isn't going
>>> to be good enough if the documents are shared.  If you're
>>> exporting or importing something just one time, you can get
>>> usually away with it after some minor fixing afterwards.
>>>
>>> But if it's a shared document and needs to be edited multiple
>>> times by multiple people, you just can't get away with using
>>> two different apps -- hell, not even two different versions of
>>> MSWord. If you go back and forth many times, the document will
>>> steadily "deteriorate" with each transition from one app to
>>> another.  At least that's my experience.
>>
>> That's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well. Thanks
>> for sharing though :-)
>
> I realize I'm arguing a moot point, but using something like
> .docx for shared documents that need to be maintained by
> multiple people for a long time (more than a month or two) is a
> dead awful choice.
>
> A plain ascii text file is probably the best choice for
> portability and longevity.  However, that suggestion's probably
> not going to fly because it severly limits the amount of time
> you can waste picking out eye-shatteringly ugly font
> combinations and f*&king up margins, gutters, leading, and all
> the other things people like to mess up rather than doing real
> work.
>
> My next choice would probably be something like RTF.  If you
> get into a jam it's mostly-human-readible. If you limit
> yourself to simple formatting features it's about as portable
> and robust as anything you can find that allows the inclusion
> of graphics.  The support for vector graphics (e.g. SVG) is
> pretty slim, but bit-mapped graphics support works pretty well.
>
> HTML would seem to be a good choice as well, but even more than
> RTF you've got to limit what features you use. The only way to
> keep the file from deteriorating into a mess is to avoid any of
> "WYSIWYG" HTML editors.

Google Apps is great for sharing documents.. You can even have
multiple people editing in real-time and see each other's work. It's
kind of fun, and all you need is a web browser.

Again, irrelevant to the OP since he can't change his company's
policy... but good to keep in mind for anyone who can :)

Paul

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Daniel da Veiga]

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 15:16, Paul Hartman
<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com> wrote:
>> On 2009-01-27, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 27 January 2009 06:29:55 Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>> On 2009-01-26, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are
>>>> > based on my own preferences.
>>>> >
>>>> > I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only
>>>> > one that does it, so be it. But a workaround or another way to
>>>> > skin this cat is not what I need here.
>>>>
>>>> In my experience, finding an app that writes .docx isn't going
>>>> to be good enough if the documents are shared.  If you're
>>>> exporting or importing something just one time, you can get
>>>> usually away with it after some minor fixing afterwards.
>>>>
>>>> But if it's a shared document and needs to be edited multiple
>>>> times by multiple people, you just can't get away with using
>>>> two different apps -- hell, not even two different versions of
>>>> MSWord. If you go back and forth many times, the document will
>>>> steadily "deteriorate" with each transition from one app to
>>>> another.  At least that's my experience.
>>>
>>> That's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well. Thanks
>>> for sharing though :-)
>>
>> I realize I'm arguing a moot point, but using something like
>> .docx for shared documents that need to be maintained by
>> multiple people for a long time (more than a month or two) is a
>> dead awful choice.
>>
>> A plain ascii text file is probably the best choice for
>> portability and longevity.  However, that suggestion's probably
>> not going to fly because it severly limits the amount of time
>> you can waste picking out eye-shatteringly ugly font
>> combinations and f*&king up margins, gutters, leading, and all
>> the other things people like to mess up rather than doing real
>> work.
>>
>> My next choice would probably be something like RTF.  If you
>> get into a jam it's mostly-human-readible. If you limit
>> yourself to simple formatting features it's about as portable
>> and robust as anything you can find that allows the inclusion
>> of graphics.  The support for vector graphics (e.g. SVG) is
>> pretty slim, but bit-mapped graphics support works pretty well.
>>
>> HTML would seem to be a good choice as well, but even more than
>> RTF you've got to limit what features you use. The only way to
>> keep the file from deteriorating into a mess is to avoid any of
>> "WYSIWYG" HTML editors.
>
> Google Apps is great for sharing documents.. You can even have
> multiple people editing in real-time and see each other's work. It's
> kind of fun, and all you need is a web browser.
>
> Again, irrelevant to the OP since he can't change his company's
> policy... but good to keep in mind for anyone who can :)
>

I had this problem a while ago. I'm using CrossOffice with Word 2000
and needed to open and change some docx.
Microsoft launched a compatibility pack for Office 2000, it works
great, I'm using it, you may find more info and some tips here:

http://stuffem.wordpress.com/2007/07/14/quick-tip-reading-office-2007-docx-files/

-- 
Daniel da Veiga

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Crossover Office and Word 2007

[Paul Hartman]

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Daniel da Veiga
<danieldaveiga@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 15:16, Paul Hartman
> <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com> wrote:
>>> On 2009-01-27, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday 27 January 2009 06:29:55 Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>>> On 2009-01-26, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> > These are shared documents. I can't just change what they are
>>>>> > based on my own preferences.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I need an app that WRITES .docx. If Office 2007 is the only
>>>>> > one that does it, so be it. But a workaround or another way to
>>>>> > skin this cat is not what I need here.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my experience, finding an app that writes .docx isn't going
>>>>> to be good enough if the documents are shared.  If you're
>>>>> exporting or importing something just one time, you can get
>>>>> usually away with it after some minor fixing afterwards.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if it's a shared document and needs to be edited multiple
>>>>> times by multiple people, you just can't get away with using
>>>>> two different apps -- hell, not even two different versions of
>>>>> MSWord. If you go back and forth many times, the document will
>>>>> steadily "deteriorate" with each transition from one app to
>>>>> another.  At least that's my experience.
>>>>
>>>> That's pretty much the conclusion I came to as well. Thanks
>>>> for sharing though :-)
>>>
>>> I realize I'm arguing a moot point, but using something like
>>> .docx for shared documents that need to be maintained by
>>> multiple people for a long time (more than a month or two) is a
>>> dead awful choice.
>>>
>>> A plain ascii text file is probably the best choice for
>>> portability and longevity.  However, that suggestion's probably
>>> not going to fly because it severly limits the amount of time
>>> you can waste picking out eye-shatteringly ugly font
>>> combinations and f*&king up margins, gutters, leading, and all
>>> the other things people like to mess up rather than doing real
>>> work.
>>>
>>> My next choice would probably be something like RTF.  If you
>>> get into a jam it's mostly-human-readible. If you limit
>>> yourself to simple formatting features it's about as portable
>>> and robust as anything you can find that allows the inclusion
>>> of graphics.  The support for vector graphics (e.g. SVG) is
>>> pretty slim, but bit-mapped graphics support works pretty well.
>>>
>>> HTML would seem to be a good choice as well, but even more than
>>> RTF you've got to limit what features you use. The only way to
>>> keep the file from deteriorating into a mess is to avoid any of
>>> "WYSIWYG" HTML editors.
>>
>> Google Apps is great for sharing documents.. You can even have
>> multiple people editing in real-time and see each other's work. It's
>> kind of fun, and all you need is a web browser.
>>
>> Again, irrelevant to the OP since he can't change his company's
>> policy... but good to keep in mind for anyone who can :)
>>
>
> I had this problem a while ago. I'm using CrossOffice with Word 2000
> and needed to open and change some docx.
> Microsoft launched a compatibility pack for Office 2000, it works
> great, I'm using it, you may find more info and some tips here:
>
> http://stuffem.wordpress.com/2007/07/14/quick-tip-reading-office-2007-docx-files/

Of course the compatiblity pack has the same problem, it does not
magically give older Office the new features. If someone using Office
2007 actually uses new 2007 features, they will be lost when you open
in the older Office version.

On the other hand, if the person who created the document isn't using
any 2007-exclusive features, they should not use the 2007 format, and
then you could avoid this whole nightmare in the first place.

Paul