[gentoo-user] Getting rid of all kde components

[gentoo-user] Getting rid of all kde components

[Harry Putnam]

I've decided to stop using KDE after yrs of use... given that gentoo
compiles everything from scratch, its just getting to much time lost
jacking around with kde during upgrades.

But also I'd forgotten what the oldtime linux desktops were like.
fvwm was the main one in use when I started circa 1997.

I see blackbox is even a bit more stark... but since I am mainly
command line oriented it doesn't present a problem.

But cutting to the chase here, I'm getting rid of KDE but I see
kde-base/arts shows lots of dependencies.  Even now that I've changed
my USE flag `kde' to `-kde'

  qdepends  -C kde-base/arts|awk '{gsub(/ /,"\n");print}'
  kde-base/arts-3.5.10:
  x11-libs/qt:3
  >=dev-libs/glib-2
  media-libs/alsa-lib
  media-libs/libogg
  media-libs/libvorbis
  media-sound/esound
  media-libs/libmad
  media-libs/audiofile
  dev-util/pkgconfig
  =sys-devel/automake-1.9*
  >=sys-devel/autoconf-2.61
  sys-devel/libtool
  sys-devel/make
  dev-util/pkgconfig
  dev-lang/perl

I'm pretty sure at least some of this doesn't actually depend on
kde-base/arts but not quite sure what to make of the output.

 

Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of all kde components

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 18 November 2008 08:14:02 Harry Putnam wrote:
> I've decided to stop using KDE after yrs of use... given that gentoo
> compiles everything from scratch, its just getting to much time lost
> jacking around with kde during upgrades.
>
> But also I'd forgotten what the oldtime linux desktops were like.
> fvwm was the main one in use when I started circa 1997.
>
> I see blackbox is even a bit more stark... but since I am mainly
> command line oriented it doesn't present a problem.
>
> But cutting to the chase here, I'm getting rid of KDE but I see
> kde-base/arts shows lots of dependencies.  Even now that I've changed
> my USE flag `kde' to `-kde'

remove arts and any other kde-related flags from USE and package.use. Unmerge 
arts, continue

arts is only used in kde, it's a piece of utter trash and totally not needed - 
everything it ever did can now be done by alsa.

>   qdepends  -C kde-base/arts|awk '{gsub(/ /,"\n");print}'
>   kde-base/arts-3.5.10:
>   x11-libs/qt:3
>
>   >=dev-libs/glib-2
>
>   media-libs/alsa-lib
>   media-libs/libogg
>   media-libs/libvorbis
>   media-sound/esound
>   media-libs/libmad
>   media-libs/audiofile
>   dev-util/pkgconfig
>   =sys-devel/automake-1.9*
>
>   >=sys-devel/autoconf-2.61
>
>   sys-devel/libtool
>   sys-devel/make
>   dev-util/pkgconfig
>   dev-lang/perl
>
> I'm pretty sure at least some of this doesn't actually depend on
> kde-base/arts but not quite sure what to make of the output.

You have it the wrong way round. Those packages do not depend on arts, instead 
arts depends on them. They are needed to either run or to build arts.

Don't worry about it. portage knows how to build anything that's missing after 
you are done cleaning up

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] Re: Getting rid of all kde components

[Harry Putnam]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> writes:

>> I'm pretty sure at least some of this doesn't actually depend on
>> kde-base/arts but not quite sure what to make of the output.
>
> You have it the wrong way round. Those packages do not depend on
> arts, instead arts depends on them. They are needed to either run or
> to build arts.

Egad, of course.  And I've used several of the depends commands for
quite some time now yet every once in a while I get to thinking
backwards with it.  

Thanks for the friendly nudge instead of a nasty whack with a 2x4.

Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of all kde components

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Dienstag 18 November 2008 07:14:02 schrieb ext Harry Putnam:

> I've decided to stop using KDE after yrs of use... given that gentoo
> compiles everything from scratch, its just getting to much time lost
> jacking around with kde during upgrades.

Hmm, you already complained about installation (or compile) time in the cfg-
update thread. Why did you choose Gentoo, if you don't like compiling stuff?

BTW: I run KDE updates in the night.

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
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[gentoo-user] Re: Getting rid of all kde components

[Harry Putnam]

Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs.ext@nsn.com> writes:

> Am Dienstag 18 November 2008 07:14:02 schrieb ext Harry Putnam:
>
>> I've decided to stop using KDE after yrs of use... given that gentoo
>> compiles everything from scratch, its just getting to much time lost
>> jacking around with kde during upgrades.
>
> Hmm, you already complained about installation (or compile) time in the cfg-
> update thread. Why did you choose Gentoo, if you don't like compiling stuff?
>
> BTW: I run KDE updates in the night.

You seem hell bent on picking a fight with me.  But I'm not biting.

You are obviously far to sophisticated and knowledgeable for me.  Or
at least you clearly think so.

And yet it slipped right over your head that I'm clearly juggling
things around that are bothersome to compile so that I can continue to
run Gentoo, like I've been doing long before I ever saw your name on
this list.

That huge intellect has told you to read that as a complaint.. and who
am I to argue.

So I'll just leave it that its not really up to you what I do or don't
like to compile or what OS I run.

PS- This is just a thought, but have you considered restricting your
responses to the subject at hand instead of finding something in a
query to suit your need to showoff that towering intellect? 
 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Getting rid of all kde components

[Dirk Heinrichs]

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Am Dienstag 18 November 2008 09:06:20 schrieb ext Harry Putnam:

> You seem hell bent on picking a fight with me.  But I'm not biting.

Wow, calm down. I was just curious.

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland   | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Wanheimerstraße 68      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
D-40468 Düsseldorf      | ICQ#: 110037733
GPG Public Key C2E467BB | Keyserver: wwwkeys.pgp.net


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[gentoo-user] Re: Getting rid of all kde components

[Harry Putnam]

Dirk Heinrichs <dirk.heinrichs.ext@nsn.com> writes:

> Am Dienstag 18 November 2008 09:06:20 schrieb ext Harry Putnam:
>
>> You seem hell bent on picking a fight with me.  But I'm not biting.
>
> Wow, calm down. I was just curious.

Not buying Dirk.

> Hmm, you already complained about installation (or compile) time in the cfg-
> update thread. Why did you choose Gentoo, if you don't like compiling stuff?

That is not the way someone who is `just curious' phasing things.

The subject was "Getting rid of all kde components".  If you aren't
going to talk about that then the normal thing is to start a new
thread or hold you piece.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Getting rid of all kde components

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 18 November 2008 10:25:24 Harry Putnam wrote:
> > Hmm, you already complained about installation (or compile) time in the
> > cfg- update thread. Why did you choose Gentoo, if you don't like
> > compiling stuff?
>
> That is not the way someone who is `just curious' phasing things.

You don't know Dirk :-)

That really is how he phrases a "I just wanna know question".

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Getting rid of all kde components

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Dienstag 18 November 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Tuesday 18 November 2008 10:25:24 Harry Putnam wrote:
> > > Hmm, you already complained about installation (or compile) time in the
> > > cfg- update thread. Why did you choose Gentoo, if you don't like
> > > compiling stuff?
> >
> > That is not the way someone who is `just curious' phasing things.
>
> You don't know Dirk :-)
>
> That really is how he phrases a "I just wanna know question".

besides, he is one of the more knowledgeable persons  on this list - you shall 
not fight with them, you loose to many helpfull answers that way.

Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of all kde components

[Sebastian Günther]

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* Dirk Heinrichs (dirk.heinrichs.ext@nsn.com) [18.11.08 07:53]:
> Am Dienstag 18 November 2008 07:14:02 schrieb ext Harry Putnam:
> 
> > I've decided to stop using KDE after yrs of use... given that gentoo
> > compiles everything from scratch, its just getting to much time lost
> > jacking around with kde during upgrades.
> 
> Hmm, you already complained about installation (or compile) time in the cfg-
> update thread. Why did you choose Gentoo, if you don't like compiling stuff?
> 

Because it is about choice, and if you choose, not to use KDE, then you 
can do it.

You can even choose not to use qt, and leave a whole bunch of bloated 
libs out.


> BTW: I run KDE updates in the night.
> 

Well, I never compile KDE. One big monster like Gnome is enough...

> Bye...
> 
> 	Dirk
> 

SEB@STI@N

-- 
 " Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. "      Karl Marx

 SEB@STI@N GÜNTHER         mailto:samson@guenther-roetgen.de

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Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of all kde components

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Dienstag 18 November 2008, Sebastian Günther wrote:
> * Dirk Heinrichs (dirk.heinrichs.ext@nsn.com) [18.11.08 07:53]:
> > Am Dienstag 18 November 2008 07:14:02 schrieb ext Harry Putnam:
> > > I've decided to stop using KDE after yrs of use... given that gentoo
> > > compiles everything from scratch, its just getting to much time lost
> > > jacking around with kde during upgrades.
> >
> > Hmm, you already complained about installation (or compile) time in the
> > cfg- update thread. Why did you choose Gentoo, if you don't like
> > compiling stuff?
>
> Because it is about choice, and if you choose, not to use KDE, then you
> can do it.
>
> You can even choose not to use qt, and leave a whole bunch of bloated
> libs out.
>
> > BTW: I run KDE updates in the night.
>
> Well, I never compile KDE. One big monster like Gnome is enough...
>
> > Bye...
> >
> > 	Dirk
>
> SEB@STI@N

so you decided to install the even bigger, more bloated monster?
smart choice!

But why attacking Dirk for his valid question? The OP has complained in two 
threads about compiling. If you don't like compiling, gentoo is not for you.

Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of all kde components

[Daniel da Veiga]

On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 09:38, Volker Armin Hemmann
<volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote:
> On Dienstag 18 November 2008, Sebastian Günther wrote:
>> * Dirk Heinrichs (dirk.heinrichs.ext@nsn.com) [18.11.08 07:53]:
>> > Am Dienstag 18 November 2008 07:14:02 schrieb ext Harry Putnam:
>> > > I've decided to stop using KDE after yrs of use... given that gentoo
>> > > compiles everything from scratch, its just getting to much time lost
>> > > jacking around with kde during upgrades.
>> >
>> > Hmm, you already complained about installation (or compile) time in the
>> > cfg- update thread. Why did you choose Gentoo, if you don't like
>> > compiling stuff?
>>
>> Because it is about choice, and if you choose, not to use KDE, then you
>> can do it.
>>
>> You can even choose not to use qt, and leave a whole bunch of bloated
>> libs out.
>>
>> > BTW: I run KDE updates in the night.
>>
>> Well, I never compile KDE. One big monster like Gnome is enough...
>>
>> > Bye...
>> >
>> >     Dirk
>>
>> SEB@STI@N
>
> so you decided to install the even bigger, more bloated monster?
> smart choice!
>
> But why attacking Dirk for his valid question? The OP has complained in two
> threads about compiling. If you don't like compiling, gentoo is not for you.
>

It doesn't seem like a complain, if you read it like you would really answer it.

It wast just a comment to justify the question. I don't see a reason
to question his comment. Gentoo is about choice (not just compiling),
and this thread is about Getting rid of all KDE components. Someone
goes off-topic and all of a sudden the OP feels attacked (I would feel
the same). If you're not going to answer the question, don't send it
to the list.

I have removed KDE long time ago, and right now I have most of it back
so I can use one or two programs (I just love K3B, never used KDE as a
WM, but K3B kicks ass, and Gentoo, as I said, is about choice). It
seems to me that if you remove all kde basic components, all
dependencies (its the case of your arts list) would be target for
removal by emerge --depclean... Run revdep-rebuild and maybe check the
-e option of emerge to get rid of whatever is left (or wants to come
back).

-- 
Daniel da Veiga

[gentoo-user] Re: Getting rid of all kde components

[Harry Putnam]

"Daniel da Veiga" <danieldaveiga@gmail.com> writes:

> It doesn't seem like a complain, if you read it like you would really answer it.
>
> It wast just a comment to justify the question. I don't see a reason
> to question his comment. Gentoo is about choice (not just compiling),
> and this thread is about Getting rid of all KDE components. Someone
> goes off-topic and all of a sudden the OP feels attacked (I would feel
> the same). If you're not going to answer the question, don't send it
> to the list.

[...] 

Thank you... and for the nice outline I've snipped

[gentoo-user] Re: Getting rid of all kde components

[Harry Putnam]

Volker Armin Hemmann <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> writes:

> But why attacking Dirk for his valid question? The OP has complained
> in two threads about compiling. If you don't like compiling, gentoo
> is not for you.

If Dirk wants to ask a question about why people should not use gentoo
if they don't like to compile KDE, let him start a thread about it.
Don't hijack a thread about getting rid of the various components.

(and what was the other complaint you mention?)

And anyway a moments thought would have given him the answer. There is
no mystery there, 

That someone finds gentoo worthwhile even though they don't like the
time sink involved in compiling kde is not mysterious or hard to
understand. It wasn't an innocent `gosh I'm just interested' question.

OP wrote:

> I've decided to stop using KDE after yrs of use... given that gentoo
> compiles everything from scratch, its just getting to much time lost
> jacking around with kde during upgrades.

Armin,
That is not a complaint.  Just a statement of fact.

And let me repeat.  Not liking to compile lengthy things does not make
gentoo wrong for me.  It's not up to you to decide that for me.

Armin wrote:

> besides, he is one of the more knowledgeable persons on this list -
> you shall not fight with them, you loose to many helpfull answers
> that way.

That's true and god knows I've needed plenty of help over the yrs, but
there comes a point where wiseass, off subject, putdowns need to be
dealt with.  

Dirks style is to pull out some piece of a query and then take off on
that instead of dealing with the subject.  It derails the thread as
you've seen

I've gotten lots of good answers from you about a host of subjects and
I thank you for it.  They've been well appreciated. I don't recall any
of your responses asking pointless questions not on subject that
derail the thread either.  They've been short and to the point.
Usually cutting right to the chase.

But it seems people here have a sore point about compiling.  Any
mention of it being time consuming or a right pain in the butt, brings
out commentary about how gentoo is not for that person.

You may like the advantages compiling from scratch holds for you... so
you do it gladly.  Does not mean you have to like it.

Do you actually like compiling?... You like taking hours and hours to
get a current system if you fall behind?  I really doubt that.  So you
make adjustments to deal with it.  Compiling at night, ditching hefty
items that are not really that useful, etc etc.

Kde no longer holds enough useful advantages for me to put up with the
compiling.  Simple as that... no underlying dig about gentoo there.
No need to respond that gentoo is not for me.

I have a good idea of what gentoo is about, You might have seen my
name here for yrs now.  Its still a pain in that butt to loose hours
and hours to compile KDE.  So I ditched it.  Finding all I need in
blackbox. 

You may not have seen the first post, but I gave a clear reason as to
what I was up to in the very first message:

OP wrote:
> I've decided to stop using KDE after yrs of use... given that gentoo
> compiles everything from scratch, its just getting to much time lost
> jacking around with kde during upgrades.
> 
> But also I'd forgotten what the oldtime linux desktops were like.
> fvwm was the main one in use when I started circa 1997.
> 
> I see blackbox is even a bit more stark... but since I am mainly
> command line oriented it doesn't present a problem.

 [...] And then on to the question about getting rid of
       kde-base/arts. 

Its completely obvious there what is going on.  I'm moving to a
desktop more in keeping with my mostly commandline way of working.  

Yrs ago I started using KDE for what seems a small reason.  You could
pull stuff around in the pager. A feature I was used to from using
fvwm. But fvwm was falling out of use in redhat about that time.
Gnome and KDE were the desktops easiest to get working then.

(Gentoo didn't exist yet at that time ( I don't think ) Not even Enoch
was available yet.)

But in the early days of GNOME its pager did not have that capability.
You had to change to the other desktop to move an application or
xterm so I chose kde because I liked the pager better.

After that I just got used to using kde.  When I moved to gentoo
several yrs ago I stayed with kde 

Now I'm rediscovering the simplicity of a desktop like blackbox.  (And
you can move stuff around in its pager to boot)

Re: [gentoo-user] Getting rid of all kde components

[Dirk Uys]

On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 8:14 AM, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
> I've decided to stop using KDE after yrs of use... given that gentoo
> compiles everything from scratch, its just getting to much time lost
> jacking around with kde during upgrades.
>
> But also I'd forgotten what the oldtime linux desktops were like.
> fvwm was the main one in use when I started circa 1997.
>
> I see blackbox is even a bit more stark... but since I am mainly
> command line oriented it doesn't present a problem.
>
> ...


I don't know if you have all the KDE stuff installed, because that
does take ages, and pulls in the whole KDE kitchen sync. When I
install kde I emerge kdesktop (or startkde, cant remember now) and let
it pull all its dependencies. This normally results in a very cut down
kde - no sound mixer, games, kmail, moonphase applets, etc. (a lot
less time spent updating)

Or try WindowMaker, I used to use it and I'm still very fond of it.

Regards
Dirk