[gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Momesso Andrea]

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I'm looking for a webapp to be installed in a lighttpd + mysql + php
server that allows users to upload theyr own files and download shared
files.

Possibly I need something that allows different levels of authorizations
over directories, for example a root that is world readable, a folder
readable from registered users and writable only from admins, user
folders etc.

Can anybody suggest me an application (possibly opensource) that can do the job?

P.S. The end user skills are limited to opening a web browser (this is
why I can't do it with and ftp server and virtual users).

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Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 28 October 2008 19:38:09 Momesso Andrea wrote:
> I'm looking for a webapp to be installed in a lighttpd + mysql + php
> server that allows users to upload theyr own files and download shared
> files.
>
> Possibly I need something that allows different levels of authorizations
> over directories, for example a root that is world readable, a folder
> readable from registered users and writable only from admins, user
> folders etc.
>
> Can anybody suggest me an application (possibly opensource) that can do the
> job?
>
> P.S. The end user skills are limited to opening a web browser (this is
> why I can't do it with and ftp server and virtual users).

Why not just have them view the ftp site in the browser?

User's aren't stupid and can cope with stuff - they will see a hierarchy of 
folders just like what they see in My Computer and might be asked for a 
username and password - just like in gmail.

What's the problem with such an arrangement?

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Momesso Andrea]

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On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 08:38:33PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Tuesday 28 October 2008 19:38:09 Momesso Andrea wrote:
> > I'm looking for a webapp to be installed in a lighttpd + mysql + php
> > server that allows users to upload theyr own files and download shared
> > files.
> >
> > Possibly I need something that allows different levels of authorizations
> > over directories, for example a root that is world readable, a folder
> > readable from registered users and writable only from admins, user
> > folders etc.
> >
> > Can anybody suggest me an application (possibly opensource) that can do the
> > job?
> >
> > P.S. The end user skills are limited to opening a web browser (this is
> > why I can't do it with and ftp server and virtual users).
> 
> Why not just have them view the ftp site in the browser?
> 
> User's aren't stupid and can cope with stuff - they will see a hierarchy of 
> folders just like what they see in My Computer and might be asked for a 
> username and password - just like in gmail.
> 
> What's the problem with such an arrangement?
> 
Hmmm... And how do they upload? 

I was looking for something with a "select file" button and a "upload
now" button.

> -- 
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
> 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 28 October 2008 22:10:37 Momesso Andrea wrote:
> > Why not just have them view the ftp site in the browser?
> >
> > User's aren't stupid and can cope with stuff - they will see a hierarchy
> > of folders just like what they see in My Computer and might be asked for
> > a username and password - just like in gmail.
> >
> > What's the problem with such an arrangement?
>
> Hmmm... And how do they upload?

Ahem. 

Allow me to introduce you to my good friend drag and his charming wife drop.

Browsers ARE ftp clients and know about ftp put and get just like they know 
about http GET, PUT and POST. Caveat: Firefox needs a plugin and those 
wonderful chaps who write IE7 helpfully removed this feature. Konqueror and 
Nautilus JustDoIt(tm).

Your other option is that insanely convoluted method that phpBB forums use for 
file uploads. Aunt Tillie has never yet been observed to understand what the 
forum wants her to do with that function.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Momesso Andrea]

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On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 11:15:39PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Tuesday 28 October 2008 22:10:37 Momesso Andrea wrote:
> > > Why not just have them view the ftp site in the browser?
> > >
> > > User's aren't stupid and can cope with stuff - they will see a hierarchy
> > > of folders just like what they see in My Computer and might be asked for
> > > a username and password - just like in gmail.
> > >
> > > What's the problem with such an arrangement?
> >
> > Hmmm... And how do they upload?
> 
> Ahem. 
> 
> Allow me to introduce you to my good friend drag and his charming wife drop.

Nice to meet them :P

> 
> Browsers ARE ftp clients and know about ftp put and get just like they know 
> about http GET, PUT and POST. Caveat: Firefox needs a plugin and those 
> wonderful chaps who write IE7 helpfully removed this feature. Konqueror and 
> Nautilus JustDoIt(tm).
> 
Most of the users I'm serving don't even know about about Konqueror and
Nautilus... And if they have ever installed a firefox plugin, that is
the one called "Bring The Porn".

By they way I cannot cut away such a big part of the audience just
because they don't have a compliant browser.

> Your other option is that insanely convoluted method that phpBB forums use for 
> file uploads. Aunt Tillie has never yet been observed to understand what the 
> forum wants her to do with that function.
> 

Egroupware has something similar to what I need, the just call it
FileManager:
"Managing files stored in the (VFS)? (virtual file system) based on
files, sql-db or webdav."

It gives the ability to upload files and stores in the database a lot of
useful metadata (date of upload, name of uploader, short description,
wether it is updated or not etc...).

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Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 29 October 2008 08:03:55 Momesso Andrea wrote:
> By they way I cannot cut away such a big part of the audience just
> because they don't have a compliant browser.

So your users are mostly IE7?

Then I'm afraid you have to resort to convulted ways to get around the 
convulted mess created by the authors of that browser.

I can't help you further with that one - IE is way outside my area of 
expertise. Good luck.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Iain Buchanan]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Wednesday 29 October 2008 08:03:55 Momesso Andrea wrote:
>> By they way I cannot cut away such a big part of the audience just
>> because they don't have a compliant browser.
>
> So your users are mostly IE7?
>
> Then I'm afraid you have to resort to convulted ways to get around the
> convulted mess created by the authors of that browser.
>
> I can't help you further with that one - IE is way outside my area of
> expertise. Good luck.

you can't use winblows extorter to drop files onto an ftp server?  I 
would have thought that was, er, basic functionality...

-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

... faster BogoMIPS calculations (yes, it now boots 2 seconds faster 
than it used to: we're considering changing the name from "Linux" to 
"InstaBOOT"
	-- Linus, in the announcement for 1.3.26

Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 29 October 2008 09:26:01 Iain Buchanan wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Wednesday 29 October 2008 08:03:55 Momesso Andrea wrote:
> >> By they way I cannot cut away such a big part of the audience just
> >> because they don't have a compliant browser.
> >
> > So your users are mostly IE7?
> >
> > Then I'm afraid you have to resort to convulted ways to get around the
> > convulted mess created by the authors of that browser.
> >
> > I can't help you further with that one - IE is way outside my area of
> > expertise. Good luck.
>
> you can't use winblows extorter to drop files onto an ftp server?  I
> would have thought that was, er, basic functionality...

Yeah, that's what I thought too. The GF suspected otherwise for IE7 and 
confirmed it by asking that nice Mr Google person

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

On Wednesday 29 October 2008, 09:06, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > you can't use winblows extorter to drop files onto an ftp server?  I
> > would have thought that was, er, basic functionality...
>
> Yeah, that's what I thought too. The GF suspected otherwise for IE7
> and confirmed it by asking that nice Mr Google person

Ok, that's OT, but it's not that difficult. They just moved the ftp 
functionality from Internet explorer to Windows explorer (yes, many 
people are not even aware of the difference). When you open a FTP site 
with ie7, it just shows you a basic interface with hyperlinks but no 
ability to copy/paste or drag/drop stuff (just like basic FF). But, 
there is a line at top of the page that clearly says:

"To view this FTP site in Windows Explorer, click Page, and then click 
Open FTP Site in Windows Explorer."

Just do what it says, and you have the (cough) good old interface where 
you can do drag/drop etc.

I'm however all for using FF with a suitable plugin to do ftp. However, 
for basic users, I fear that even a clean interface like that provided 
by fireftp might look too complicated (sigh).

To the OP: have you considered creating a very simple php interface to 
upload files, like eg

http://www.w3schools.com/PHP/php_file_upload.asp

(but there are dozen of other example on the web)

Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Momesso Andrea]

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On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 11:40:43AM +0200, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
> On Wednesday 29 October 2008, 09:06, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> > > you can't use winblows extorter to drop files onto an ftp server?  I
> > > would have thought that was, er, basic functionality...
> >
> > Yeah, that's what I thought too. The GF suspected otherwise for IE7
> > and confirmed it by asking that nice Mr Google person
> 
> Ok, that's OT, but it's not that difficult. They just moved the ftp 
> functionality from Internet explorer to Windows explorer (yes, many 
> people are not even aware of the difference). When you open a FTP site 
> with ie7, it just shows you a basic interface with hyperlinks but no 
> ability to copy/paste or drag/drop stuff (just like basic FF). But, 
> there is a line at top of the page that clearly says:
> 
> "To view this FTP site in Windows Explorer, click Page, and then click 
> Open FTP Site in Windows Explorer."
> 
> Just do what it says, and you have the (cough) good old interface where 
> you can do drag/drop etc.

Hmmm... This is good news. Has anyone experience with Safari/Opera
behavior?

> 
> I'm however all for using FF with a suitable plugin to do ftp. However, 
> for basic users, I fear that even a clean interface like that provided 
> by fireftp might look too complicated (sigh).
> 

I agree... People tend to feel confortable using web-based wizards.

> To the OP: have you considered creating a very simple php interface to 
> upload files, like eg
> 
> http://www.w3schools.com/PHP/php_file_upload.asp
> 
> (but there are dozen of other example on the web)
> 

Yes, but this is not an option. If I don't find a full featured (and
secure) webabb that takes care of user registration, permissions, etc., 
I'm gonna force users to the use the ftp.

I was thinking at such a layout:

ROOT:
	/	
		world readable, admins writable

USER FOLDERS:
	/username/
		registered user readable, owner writable

PRIVATE USERS FOLDER (for drafts and personal stuff)
	/username/private/
		owner readable, owner writable

I think it's gonna be pretty easy to setup such a layout using vsftpd or
proftpd.

Suggestions are welcome.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Stroller]

On 29 Oct 2008, at 11:01, Momesso Andrea wrote:
>> ...
>> "To view this FTP site in Windows Explorer, click Page, and then  
>> click
>> Open FTP Site in Windows Explorer."
>>
>> Just do what it says, and you have the (cough) good old interface  
>> where
>> you can do drag/drop etc.
>
> Hmmm... This is good news. Has anyone experience with Safari/Opera
> behavior?

Safari has the correct behaviour - it does not operate as an ftp client.

Stroller.
  

Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Stroller]

On 29 Oct 2008, at 12:05, Stroller wrote:
> On 29 Oct 2008, at 11:01, Momesso Andrea wrote:
>>> ...
>>> "To view this FTP site in Windows Explorer, click Page, and then  
>>> click
>>> Open FTP Site in Windows Explorer."
>>>
>>> Just do what it says, and you have the (cough) good old interface  
>>> where
>>> you can do drag/drop etc.
>>
>> Hmmm... This is good news. Has anyone experience with Safari/Opera
>> behavior?
>
> Safari has the correct behaviour - it does not operate as an ftp  
> client.

I should perhaps explain that Macs ship with the program "Finder" for  
GUI file-management.

One simply uses "Go" then "Connect to server" - the menus indicate  
that the shortcut for this is Apple-K - and then types ftp://site.example.com 
  in order to achieve an FTP connection. In the window displayed there  
is a + button allowing users to save "favourite" servers.

Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Ajai Khattri]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008, Stroller wrote:

> One simply uses "Go" then "Connect to server" - the menus indicate that the 
> shortcut for this is Apple-K - and then types ftp://site.example.com in order 
> to achieve an FTP connection. In the window displayed there is a + button 
> allowing users to save "favourite" servers.

True but its a "read-only" view...


-- 
A

Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Stroller]

On 29 Oct 2008, at 09:40, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
> On Wednesday 29 October 2008, 09:06, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
>>> you can't use winblows extorter to drop files onto an ftp server?  I
>>> would have thought that was, er, basic functionality...
>>
>> Yeah, that's what I thought too. The GF suspected otherwise for IE7
>> and confirmed it by asking that nice Mr Google person
>
> Ok, that's OT, but it's not that difficult. They just moved the ftp
> functionality from Internet explorer to Windows explorer (yes, many
> people are not even aware of the difference). When you open a FTP site
> with ie7, it just shows you a basic interface with hyperlinks but no
> ability to copy/paste or drag/drop stuff (just like basic FF). But,
> there is a line at top of the page that clearly says:
>
> "To view this FTP site in Windows Explorer, click Page, and then click
> Open FTP Site in Windows Explorer."

No, they just REMOVED any extended functionality from IE. Windows  
Explorer has ALWAYS done FTP natively (or at least since 2000).

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

On Wednesday 29 October 2008, 13:06, Stroller wrote:

> > Ok, that's OT, but it's not that difficult. They just moved the ftp
> > functionality from Internet explorer to Windows explorer 
[snip]
> No, they just REMOVED any extended functionality from IE. Windows
> Explorer has ALWAYS done FTP natively (or at least since 2000).

Ah ok, sorry for the inaccuracy, and thanks for the correction.

Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Mick]

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On Wednesday 29 October 2008, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
> On Wednesday 29 October 2008, 13:06, Stroller wrote:
> > > Ok, that's OT, but it's not that difficult. They just moved the ftp
> > > functionality from Internet explorer to Windows explorer
>
> [snip]
>
> > No, they just REMOVED any extended functionality from IE. Windows
> > Explorer has ALWAYS done FTP natively (or at least since 2000).
>
> Ah ok, sorry for the inaccuracy, and thanks for the correction.

Have you considered the use of webdav, or webdavs?  I believe it works fine 
with either MSIE and/or MSWE.  Of course it works a treat with Konqueror.  
The only challenge would be to make sure that the users can type in the 
correct address:  webdav://my_site.com

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Momesso Andrea]

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On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 08:23:23AM +0000, Mick wrote:
> On Wednesday 29 October 2008, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
> 
> Have you considered the use of webdav, or webdavs?  I believe it works fine 
> with either MSIE and/or MSWE.  Of course it works a treat with Konqueror.  
> The only challenge would be to make sure that the users can type in the 
> correct address:  webdav://my_site.com
> 

This sounds like a good idea. Can I set up different levels of access in
different subfolders?


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Re: [gentoo-user] Web based ftp alternative

[Mick]

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On Friday 31 October 2008, Momesso Andrea wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 08:23:23AM +0000, Mick wrote:
> > On Wednesday 29 October 2008, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:
> >
> > Have you considered the use of webdav, or webdavs?  I believe it works
> > fine with either MSIE and/or MSWE.  Of course it works a treat with
> > Konqueror. The only challenge would be to make sure that the users can
> > type in the correct address:  webdav://my_site.com
>
> This sounds like a good idea. Can I set up different levels of access in
> different subfolders?

As far as I know webdav has the full range of acl controls:

http://webdav.org/specs/rfc3744.html

You can also set up .htaccess for the respective directory - but I haven't 
look into it myself.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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