[gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Alan McKinnon]

I'm looking into ivman and pmount for automounting amongst other things while 
using e17.

ivman was last updated Feb 2007 according to the official sourceforge page, 
and the maintainer is listed as "????". 18 months is a long time, so this 
package looks like it's unmaintained.

Is there a replacement for ivman? Or is this function best done by hal itself? 
Should I be reading the hal man pages instead of posting to a user list?

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Florian Philipp]

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Alan McKinnon schrieb:
> I'm looking into ivman and pmount for automounting amongst other things while 
> using e17.
> 
> ivman was last updated Feb 2007 according to the official sourceforge page, 
> and the maintainer is listed as "????". 18 months is a long time, so this 
> package looks like it's unmaintained.
> 
> Is there a replacement for ivman? Or is this function best done by hal itself? 
> Should I be reading the hal man pages instead of posting to a user list?
> 

I'm not familiar with e17 or ivman but how about using a lightweight
file manager with mount support like thunar (thunar-volman) or pcmanfm?


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Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 11 October 2008 14:59:30 Florian Philipp wrote:
> Alan McKinnon schrieb:
> > I'm looking into ivman and pmount for automounting amongst other things
> > while using e17.
> >
> > ivman was last updated Feb 2007 according to the official sourceforge
> > page, and the maintainer is listed as "????". 18 months is a long time,
> > so this package looks like it's unmaintained.
> >
> > Is there a replacement for ivman? Or is this function best done by hal
> > itself? Should I be reading the hal man pages instead of posting to a
> > user list?
>
> I'm not familiar with e17 or ivman but how about using a lightweight
> file manager with mount support like thunar (thunar-volman) or pcmanfm?

I already use konqueror (sometimes with kde, sometimes with e17) which has an 
effective kio-slave to give the same result.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Samstag, 11. Oktober 2008 13:24:03 schrieb Alan McKinnon:

> Is there a replacement for ivman?

What exactly do you do with it, which filesystems do you mount with it?

Bye...

	Dirk

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 11 October 2008 15:18:24 Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
> Am Samstag, 11. Oktober 2008 13:24:03 schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> > Is there a replacement for ivman?
>
> What exactly do you do with it, which filesystems do you mount with it?

At the moment mostly just hot-plug stuff on USB with your standard 
fat/ext2,3/reiser/nfts file systems, plus optical media. I also have an 
sd/mmc reader and firewire on this notebook, neither of which I've never used 
but probably should.

HAL and the various things one could do with it's events is something I've 
stayed away from studying. Maybe early versions were confusingly 
documented... and all those xml files...  I was reading a wiki page on my 
make/model notebook to see if I could improve on how I was using the 
hardware, this came up and looked useful. Automounting is the most obvious 
case, especially as e17 doesn't do it well - I get an ugly icon on the 
desktop and a long description string that is truncated at about 10 
characters, so the system is worse than useless. I resort to using konqueror 
with it's media:/ kio-slave instead, which feels clunky and more of a 
work-around than a proper desktop configuration.

If there's something better than ivman, or if I really should be configuration 
HAL directly, then I'm all ears, but I do get the impression that one really 
should be working with HAL via a front-end for true ease of use
-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Daniel Pielmeier]

Alan McKinnon schrieb am 11.10.2008 23:06:
> On Saturday 11 October 2008 15:18:24 Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
>> Am Samstag, 11. Oktober 2008 13:24:03 schrieb Alan McKinnon:
>>> Is there a replacement for ivman?
>> What exactly do you do with it, which filesystems do you mount with it?
> 
> At the moment mostly just hot-plug stuff on USB with your standard 
> fat/ext2,3/reiser/nfts file systems, plus optical media. I also have an 
> sd/mmc reader and firewire on this notebook, neither of which I've never used 
> but probably should.
> 
> HAL and the various things one could do with it's events is something I've 
> stayed away from studying. Maybe early versions were confusingly 
> documented... and all those xml files...  I was reading a wiki page on my 
> make/model notebook to see if I could improve on how I was using the 
> hardware, this came up and looked useful. Automounting is the most obvious 
> case, especially as e17 doesn't do it well - I get an ugly icon on the 
> desktop and a long description string that is truncated at about 10 
> characters, so the system is worse than useless. I resort to using konqueror 
> with it's media:/ kio-slave instead, which feels clunky and more of a 
> work-around than a proper desktop configuration.
> 
> If there's something better than ivman, or if I really should be configuration 
> HAL directly, then I'm all ears, but I do get the impression that one really 
> should be working with HAL via a front-end for true ease of use

I also think having software that is unmaintained or updated very seldom
is not a good thing. I mean you lack features, bug and security fixes
here. When I see no progress for an app that I use quite often I search
for alternatives and get used to it.

You are right hal is quite messy and it is not worth to struggle with as
it is not developed any longer [1]. It will be replaced with
devicekit, maybe this will be a better implementation.

Thunar in combination with thunar-volman works fine here. But it also
uses hal and dbus quite much, as most xfce apps. I have no problems with
it though. Optical media and external USB devices work fine, other
things I don't need.

Regards,

Daniel

[1] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2008-May/011560.html

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 11 October 2008 23:40:37 Daniel Pielmeier wrote:
> > If there's something better than ivman, or if I really should be
> > configuration HAL directly, then I'm all ears, but I do get the
> > impression that one really should be working with HAL via a front-end for
> > true ease of use
>
> I also think having software that is unmaintained or updated very seldom
> is not a good thing. I mean you lack features, bug and security fixes
> here. When I see no progress for an app that I use quite often I search
> for alternatives and get used to it.
>
> You are right hal is quite messy and it is not worth to struggle with as
> it is not developed any longer [1]. It will be replaced with
> devicekit, maybe this will be a better implementation.
[snip]
>
> [1] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2008-May/011560.html

This was a *very* illuminating post. Answered a lot of questions I had, like 
the one where I couldn't figure out the conceptual difference between HAL and 
udev and how they related to each other. They always appeared to overlap in 
useless ways.

Thanks for the link!

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Erik Hahn]

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 01:24:03PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> I'm looking into ivman and pmount for automounting amongst other things while 
> using e17.
> 
> ivman was last updated Feb 2007 according to the official sourceforge page, 
> and the maintainer is listed as "????". 18 months is a long time, so this 
> package looks like it's unmaintained.

Does software rot when it's unmaintained or why is that a problem?

The only problem I can see are unfixed bugs but these exist in
maintained packages as well.

	-Erik
-- 
hackerkey://v4sw5hw2ln3pr5ck0ma2u7LwXm4l7Gi2e2t4b7Ken4/7a16s0r1p-5.62/-6.56g5OR

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Norberto Bensa]

Quoting Erik Hahn <erik_hahn@gmx.de>:

> Does software rot when it's unmaintained or why is that a problem?

No, but it develops incompatibilities over time...


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Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Erik Hahn]

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 05:24:27PM -0300, Norberto Bensa wrote:
> Quoting Erik Hahn <erik_hahn@gmx.de>:
>
>> Does software rot when it's unmaintained or why is that a problem?
>
> No, but it develops incompatibilities over time...

So far, it works fine.

-- 
hackerkey://v4sw5hw2ln3pr5ck0ma2u7LwXm4l7Gi2e2t4b7Ken4/7a16s0r1p-5.62/-6.56g5OR

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Dale]

Erik Hahn wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 05:24:27PM -0300, Norberto Bensa wrote:
>   
>> Quoting Erik Hahn <erik_hahn@gmx.de>:
>>
>>     
>>> Does software rot when it's unmaintained or why is that a problem?
>>>       
>> No, but it develops incompatibilities over time...
>>     
>
> So far, it works fine.
>
>   
+1

If something works, why does it need to be updated?

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Alex Schuster]

Dale writes:

> Erik Hahn wrote:
> > On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 05:24:27PM -0300, Norberto Bensa wrote:
> >> Quoting Erik Hahn <erik_hahn@gmx.de>:
> >>> Does software rot when it's unmaintained or why is that a problem?
> >>
> >> No, but it develops incompatibilities over time...
> >
> > So far, it works fine.
>
> +1
>
> If something works, why does it need to be updated?

Active projects usually get updated to include new featuresm whatever they 
may be.

I first used supermount as auto mounter. Then suddenly it disappeared and 
was replaced by submount. Which behaved differently, I had to adapt my 
scripts. submount then again got removed, I started using ivman, again I 
had to change my scripts to adapt to different behaviour. Now I wonder 
what will come next and in which way it will differ.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Dale]

Alex Schuster wrote:
> Dale writes:
>
>   
>> Erik Hahn wrote:
>>     
>>> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 05:24:27PM -0300, Norberto Bensa wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Quoting Erik Hahn <erik_hahn@gmx.de>:
>>>>         
>>>>> Does software rot when it's unmaintained or why is that a problem?
>>>>>           
>>>> No, but it develops incompatibilities over time...
>>>>         
>>> So far, it works fine.
>>>       
>> +1
>>
>> If something works, why does it need to be updated?
>>     
>
> Active projects usually get updated to include new featuresm whatever they 
> may be.
>
> I first used supermount as auto mounter. Then suddenly it disappeared and 
> was replaced by submount. Which behaved differently, I had to adapt my 
> scripts. submount then again got removed, I started using ivman, again I 
> had to change my scripts to adapt to different behaviour. Now I wonder 
> what will come next and in which way it will differ.
>
> 	Wonko
>
>
>   


I used to use supermount too.  Switching for me was pretty easy tho.  I
had some compatibility issues between versions of hal and ivman once but
nothing really major, just annoying as usual.

I guess I'm one of those, if it works, just use it.  Ivman works for me
but if something better comes along and is stable, then that would be
cool too.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 12 October 2008 00:52:52 Dale wrote:
> I used to use supermount too.  Switching for me was pretty easy tho.  I
> had some compatibility issues between versions of hal and ivman once but
> nothing really major, just annoying as usual.
>
> I guess I'm one of those, if it works, just use it.  Ivman works for me
> but if something better comes along and is stable, then that would be
> cool too.

Thanks for tips. Today is Sunday, commonly known as fiddle-with-gentoo-day in 
my household :-)

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Sunday 12 October 2008 00:52:52 Dale wrote:
>   
>> I used to use supermount too.  Switching for me was pretty easy tho.  I
>> had some compatibility issues between versions of hal and ivman once but
>> nothing really major, just annoying as usual.
>>
>> I guess I'm one of those, if it works, just use it.  Ivman works for me
>> but if something better comes along and is stable, then that would be
>> cool too.
>>     
>
> Thanks for tips. Today is Sunday, commonly known as fiddle-with-gentoo-day in 
> my household :-)
>
>   

Just in case this may help:

root@smoker / # emerge -pv hal ivman dbus

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild   R   ] sys-apps/dbus-1.2.3-r1  USE="X -debug -doc (-selinux)" 0 kB
[ebuild   R   ] sys-apps/hal-0.5.11-r1  USE="X acpi crypt -apm -debug
-dell -disk-partition -doc -laptop (-selinux)" 0 kB
[ebuild   R   ] sys-apps/ivman-0.6.14  USE="-debug" 0 kB

Total: 3 packages (3 reinstalls), Size of downloads: 0 kB
root@smoker / #


Have fun.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Dale]

Norberto Bensa wrote:
> Quoting Erik Hahn <erik_hahn@gmx.de>:
>
>> Does software rot when it's unmaintained or why is that a problem?
>
> No, but it develops incompatibilities over time...
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>
>
>
>

I have hal, dbus and ivman installed here.  They work fine.  Since it
works, that may be why it is not being updated.  Don't fix what works.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 11 October 2008 22:58:06 Dale wrote:

> I have hal, dbus and ivman installed here.  They work fine.  Since it
> works, that may be why it is not being updated.  Don't fix what works.  ;-)

How have you got it set up and how long has it been that way? Experienced any 
brokenness while it's been in use?

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Saturday 11 October 2008 22:58:06 Dale wrote:
>
>   
>> I have hal, dbus and ivman installed here.  They work fine.  Since it
>> works, that may be why it is not being updated.  Don't fix what works.  ;-)
>>     
>
> How have you got it set up and how long has it been that way? Experienced any 
> brokenness while it's been in use?
>
>   


Basically, I just emerged it and restarted KDE.  It just worked.  I
don't recall changing anything as far as configs go.

It has been that way for a pretty long while.  I did have a version
problem once a while back.  I think it was when udev made some changes
or something, but hal and ivman sort of had a fight over devices like my
camera.  Hard drives were fine tho.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Re: Replacements for ivman

[James]

Dale <rdalek1967 <at> gmail.com> writes:


> > How have you got it set up and how long has it been that way? 
Experienced any 
> > brokenness while it's been in use?

> Basically, I just emerged it and restarted KDE.  It just worked.  I
> don't recall changing anything as far as configs go.

> It has been that way for a pretty long while.  I did have a version
> problem once a while back.  I think it was when udev made some changes
> or something, but hal and ivman sort of had a fight over devices like my
> camera.  Hard drives were fine tho.


Yep, same thing here

rc-status:
dbus                                                                 
hald
ivman

It just seems to work. A while back I tried to find accurate and current docs.
That's when I got confused. It really would be nice if this was all documented
well somewhere. Occassionally, a usb device is not discovered, and then
I manually try to find traces of it, using a variety of usual tools. If not
successful then I result to brute force searches of /dev .....

Most often, Konqueror, not my browser or choice, pops up when a unknown 
usb devices is popped up. That my starting point and it works most
of the time.


I'd personally settle for a master index of products and devices
and a manual udev entry example to accompany said product/device;
as a catchall type of xml/database, for the millions of devices
out there.....

Going from manual discover to a working udev rule, has always been
a painful process for me.

hth,

James

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:56:52 -0500, Dale wrote:

> Basically, I just emerged it and restarted KDE.  It just worked.  I
> don't recall changing anything as far as configs go.

You don't need ivman with KDE, it has its own device detection
and automounting.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I wonder how much deeper would the ocean be without sponges.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:56:52 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>   
>> Basically, I just emerged it and restarted KDE.  It just worked.  I
>> don't recall changing anything as far as configs go.
>>     
>
> You don't need ivman with KDE, it has its own device detection
> and automounting.
>
>
>   

I know KDE doesn't need ivman.  It uses pmount, hal and friends.  Since
I had upgraded and re-emerged some friends of the process, I just logged
out and back in.  For the record, ivman is basically for command line. 
Put in CD/DVD and it mounts it for you instead of having to type in the
mount command.  Sort of like a KDE thing but no KDE required.

Sorry if that was confusing.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:58:06 -0500, Dale wrote:

> I have hal, dbus and ivman installed here.  They work fine.  Since it
> works, that may be why it is not being updated.  Don't fix what
> works.  ;-)

Then why are there 12 op[en bugs on ivman's bug tracker?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

My Go this  amn keyboar  oesn't have any  's.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:58:06 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>   
>> I have hal, dbus and ivman installed here.  They work fine.  Since it
>> works, that may be why it is not being updated.  Don't fix what
>> works.  ;-)
>>     
>
> Then why are there 12 op[en bugs on ivman's bug tracker?
>
>
>   

Ran out of Raid.  o_O  Is there anything with no open bugs?  It works
here.  I don't have any Raid either.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  Sinus infection so I am a little goofy today.  Dr tomorrow so
maybe I will just be a normal nut in a couple days.

Re: [gentoo-user] Replacements for ivman

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 11 October 2008 20:53:37 Erik Hahn wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 01:24:03PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > I'm looking into ivman and pmount for automounting amongst other things
> > while using e17.
> >
> > ivman was last updated Feb 2007 according to the official sourceforge
> > page, and the maintainer is listed as "????". 18 months is a long time,
> > so this package looks like it's unmaintained.
>
> Does software rot when it's unmaintained or why is that a problem?
>
> The only problem I can see are unfixed bugs but these exist in
> maintained packages as well.

ivman is closely tied in with hal and dbus, both of which have a history of 
hitting users with incompatibilities. I'd rather not deal with those issues 
for this usage, and reserve my willingness to bug-hunt for other areas

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com