[gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[b.n.]

Hi,

If someone if offended by the title, please don't. It's not my idea: 
read below.

On the recent pointless, funny flame on "Portage VS Paludis", someone 
linked this blog post on the usage of --resume-skipfirst:

http://r0bertz.blogspot.com/2007/01/be-careful-when-you-are-on-paludis.html

(read that and you will understand the title of my mail.)

I actually have to admit that, apparently, I suffer the same mental 
disability of the poster -that is, I used to believe that using 
--resume-skipfirst was harmless.

However in the post no actual explanation was done for that concerning 
diagnosis. :)

Seriously: can someone more skilled than me explain why using 
--resume-skipfirst and then trying to solve the unmerged packages is/can 
be a bad idea? How can this break the system?

In return, I will bring flowers to Algernon.

Thanks a lot,
M.

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Vaeth]

> I actually have to admit that, apparently, I suffer the same mental
> disability of the poster -that is, I used to believe that using
> --resume-skipfirst was harmless.

In most cases it is harmless (e.g. if you use recompile your whole system
without installing anything new or upgrading anything).
Even in other cases a loop as mentiond on the webpage _can_ be used
safely - but this requires extreme care and/or a lot of knowledge.

The problem is that after failing of a package, portage does
not recalculate the dependencies, i.e. it will attempt to install also
those packages which depend on the failed package. Unfortunately, this
does not mean that the packages depending on this will fail either:
Due to the dubious autotools, they might recognize that the failed
package is not available (if it was a new packages which failed)
and build/install successfully but actually without support for this 
package (although by the intention of the ebuild author and/or according
to your useflags they should support it).

The correct solution to the problem of failing compiles e.g. over night
is the proper implementation of the --keep-going option where these
problems do not arise, because dependencies are recalculated after a
failure.  However, in the absence of this option, the above mentioned
loop was the _only_ available workaround. For the reason explained above
it _might_ give you an inconsistent system (although the chances for this
are not very likely) unless _you_ check/know the dependencies and if in
doubt recompile those packages which were "falsely" successfully installed
after the failed package.
So - as all workarounds - the above mentioned loop had pros and cons
(the pro is of course that, usually, your machine would compile through
the night, and if you are lucky and e.g. only one package fails and you
_know_ that nothing depends on it, you have not wasted the whole night
of compiling).
In the presence of a --keep-going option, it is now fortunately not
necessary anymore to weight the pros and cons. Of course, to insult
somebody just because he weighted the pros and cons differently is beyond
any acceptable limit.

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:34:31 +0200 (CEST), Vaeth wrote:

> The problem is that after failing of a package, portage does
> not recalculate the dependencies,

It does in 2.2.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

A. Top posters.
Q. What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[b.n.]

Vaeth ha scritto:
> 
>> I actually have to admit that, apparently, I suffer the same mental
>> disability of the poster -that is, I used to believe that using
>> --resume-skipfirst was harmless.

> The problem is that after failing of a package, portage does
> not recalculate the dependencies, i.e. it will attempt to install also
> those packages which depend on the failed package. 

OK, that's what flighted upon my head (Neil Botwick post notwithstanding)

I just assumed it recalculated dependencies and/or that there was some 
mechanism immediately understanding that a necessary update is lacking.

> to insult
> somebody just because he weighted the pros and cons differently is beyond
> any acceptable limit.

Of course -that's why the mail started being that sarcastic. :)

m.

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Matthias Bethke]

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Hi b.n.,
on Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 10:26:56PM +0200, you wrote:
> Seriously: can someone more skilled than me explain why using 
> --resume-skipfirst and then trying to solve the unmerged packages is/can be 
> a bad idea? How can this break the system?

Frankly I have no idea. I've heard that argument many times in the
Paludis discussions but never even an attempt at an explanation that
went beyond "it breaks your system". My understanding is that you can
have two kinds of situation if an upgrade fails:
a) the failed package is not a dependency of any other package
b) the failed package is a dependency of at least one other package
In case a) you get to keep the old version, no problem. In case b) the
package that depends on the failed one can
b1) work with the old version
b2) require the upgrade (and say so in the ebuild)
In case b1) things will continue working just fine. In case b2) you'll
get another failed emerge as portage will notice the unmet dependency,
so you get to keep the old version, no problem.

Did I miss anything? Sorry, no flowers today.

cheers,
	Matthias
-- 
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Fingerprint: 8C16 3F0A A6FC DF0D 19B0  8DEF 48D9 1700 FAC3 7665

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Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Matthias Bethke]

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Hi Vaeth,
on Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 01:34:31AM +0200, you wrote:
> The problem is that after failing of a package, portage does
> not recalculate the dependencies, i.e. it will attempt to install also
> those packages which depend on the failed package.

OIC, so that was what I missed :) Somehow the thread got split up and I
missed your answer.

> In the presence of a --keep-going option, it is now fortunately not
> necessary anymore to weight the pros and cons. Of course, to insult
> somebody just because he weighted the pros and cons differently is beyond
> any acceptable limit.

++
I'd say "reimplement it properly" (i.e. check the deps) is always the
better approach than "the old implementation is b0rken so let's declare
the functionality so and not reimplement it at all".

cheers,
	Matthias
-- 
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Fingerprint: 8C16 3F0A A6FC DF0D 19B0  8DEF 48D9 1700 FAC3 7665

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Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:50:35 +0200, Matthias Bethke wrote:

> > Seriously: can someone more skilled than me explain why using 
> > --resume-skipfirst and then trying to solve the unmerged packages
> > is/can be a bad idea? How can this break the system?  
> 
> Frankly I have no idea. I've heard that argument many times in the
> Paludis discussions but never even an attempt at an explanation that
> went beyond "it breaks your system". My understanding is that you can
> have two kinds of situation if an upgrade fails:
> a) the failed package is not a dependency of any other package
> b) the failed package is a dependency of at least one other package
> In case a) you get to keep the old version, no problem. In case b) the
> package that depends on the failed one can
> b1) work with the old version
> b2) require the upgrade (and say so in the ebuild)
> In case b1) things will continue working just fine. In case b2) you'll
> get another failed emerge as portage will notice the unmet dependency,
> so you get to keep the old version, no problem.
> 
> Did I miss anything?

I think you missed an important part of the Gentoo philosophy, that it
gives you the loaded gun but it's up to you to not point it at your foot.
Not providing options that could potentially break a system in certain
circumstances is for a Nanny Distro. Here the ethos is "here's the tool,
read the man page and don't blame us if you do something stupid".

Does paludis also refuse to unmerge packages in the system set?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Eagles may soar, but Wombles don't get sucked into jet engines

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Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 19:00:33 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> I think you missed an important part of the Gentoo philosophy, that it
> gives you the loaded gun but it's up to you to not point it at your foot.
> Not providing options that could potentially break a system in certain
> circumstances is for a Nanny Distro. Here the ethos is "here's the tool,
> read the man page and don't blame us if you do something stupid".
>
> Does paludis also refuse to unmerge packages in the system set?

I like the traditional behaviour of portage. When an update fails it tends to 
say:

"You asked me to do something. It didn't work; here's the output. Have a look 
at it then tell me what to do next. I'm a dumb piece of software, you are the 
thinking human so don't expect me to think for you."

A failed emerge is by definition an error, and unpredictable. How can we 
expect software to dream up the best solution to an exception? 

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 19:00:33 Neil Bothwick wrote:
>   
>> I think you missed an important part of the Gentoo philosophy, that it
>> gives you the loaded gun but it's up to you to not point it at your foot.
>> Not providing options that could potentially break a system in certain
>> circumstances is for a Nanny Distro. Here the ethos is "here's the tool,
>> read the man page and don't blame us if you do something stupid".
>>
>> Does paludis also refuse to unmerge packages in the system set?
>>     
>
> I like the traditional behaviour of portage. When an update fails it tends to 
> say:
>
> "You asked me to do something. It didn't work; here's the output. Have a look 
> at it then tell me what to do next. I'm a dumb piece of software, you are the 
> thinking human so don't expect me to think for you."
>
> A failed emerge is by definition an error, and unpredictable. How can we 
> expect software to dream up the best solution to an exception? 
>
>   


I have used --skipfirst before but I also don't think it is a good 
idea.  For a idiot like me to say that must mean something.  I guess it 
would depend on the package as to whether it could be skipped or not.  
If I do a emerge -e world, I prefer nothing to fail else what is the point?

Later.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Vaeth]

Alan McKinnon wrote:

> "You asked me to do something. It didn't work

But it is an annoyance if you leave your computer on during the three
days you are on the road to compile a load of new packages like e.g.
a new kde version, and when you return, compiling has not even started
because your first pacakge fortune-mod had a trivial file collision.

> A failed emerge is by definition an error, and unpredictable. How can we
> expect software to dream up the best solution to an exception?

Since the best solution to this exception is to finish that part of
the task which is not influenced by this error, I think the
expectation for this exception is clear.

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 20:43:06 Dale wrote:
> I have used --skipfirst before but I also don't think it is a good
> idea.  For a idiot like me to say that must mean something.  I guess it
> would depend on the package as to whether it could be skipped or not.  
> If I do a emerge -e world, I prefer nothing to fail else what is the point?

Sometimes stuff does fail - you can't fully know beforehand if an ebuild will 
succeed or not. --skipfirst is perfectly safe if you have looked at the 
package list and know that there's no dependency issues. The danger is 
blindly resuming without understanding the consequences.

For example, lets assume there's a package called alan-fonts-meta which 
depends on 20 fancy wingding-type fonts. Lets also assume that I was a dork 
when coding one font ebuild at 4am and botched the SRC_URI. That ebuild will 
fail, but you know for sure that you can safely --resume --skipfirst 
(followed by a scathing email with a blunt instrument as payload).

Other examples exist. OTOH, if the expat upgrade of some months ago failed, a 
blind resume would likely have caused endless troubles.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 21:04:59 Vaeth wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > "You asked me to do something. It didn't work
>
> But it is an annoyance if you leave your computer on during the three
> days you are on the road to compile a load of new packages like e.g.
> a new kde version, and when you return, compiling has not even started
> because your first pacakge fortune-mod had a trivial file collision.

Yes, it is indeed extremely annoying. As a KDE-4 and e17-svn user I'm all too 
aware.... But you have to consider the actual cost of a technique designed to 
increase convenience where the results are not determined.

> > A failed emerge is by definition an error, and unpredictable. How can we
> > expect software to dream up the best solution to an exception?
>
> Since the best solution to this exception is to finish that part of
> the task which is not influenced by this error, I think the
> expectation for this exception is clear.

"Which is not influenced" - this is the crucial clause, the one that is 
fraught with error. Who is to say what "not influenced" actually means? A 
complete lack of any related dependencies is one workable way to scope it. It 
happens often enough that it's worth the effort to accommodate it.

But it also represents an alternate unexpected code path and for that reason I 
believe it warrants a configuration option but not to be default. IOW, you 
have to ask for it to get it.

If you haven't already guessed, I subscribe to the school of thought of "Don't 
Cause Unintended Side-Effects"

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:26:31 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > Since the best solution to this exception is to finish that part of
> > the task which is not influenced by this error, I think the
> > expectation for this exception is clear.  
> 
> "Which is not influenced" - this is the crucial clause, the one that is 
> fraught with error. Who is to say what "not influenced" actually means?
> A complete lack of any related dependencies is one workable way to
> scope it. It happens often enough that it's worth the effort to
> accommodate it.

Isn't that exactly what --keep-going does, skips and packages that
depends on the failed package and merge the rest?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

"Bother," said Christopher Robin, as Pooh got out the vaseline.

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Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:32:05 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> I like the traditional behaviour of portage. When an update fails it
> tends to say:
> 
> "You asked me to do something. It didn't work; here's the output. Have
> a look at it then tell me what to do next. I'm a dumb piece of
> software, you are the thinking human so don't expect me to think for
> you."

That's your preference, mine too as it happens, but that's reason to deny
others a different choice.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue...

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Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 21:46:13 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:26:31 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > Since the best solution to this exception is to finish that part of
> > > the task which is not influenced by this error, I think the
> > > expectation for this exception is clear.
> >
> > "Which is not influenced" - this is the crucial clause, the one that is
> > fraught with error. Who is to say what "not influenced" actually means?
> > A complete lack of any related dependencies is one workable way to
> > scope it. It happens often enough that it's worth the effort to
> > accommodate it.
>
> Isn't that exactly what --keep-going does, skips and packages that
> depends on the failed package and merge the rest?

Yes, it does. The focus of my post was to highlight that it can be done, but 
is best done as an option, not as default.

This thread is getting a tad complex, it's getting hard to tell if a specific 
post is talking about if --keep-going is even a good idea at all, or if it 
should be an option/default...

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:48:29 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:

> That's your preference, mine too as it happens, but that's reason to
> deny others a different choice.

I'll leave it to you to spot the missing word :(

I swear to $DEITY, the tagline was picked by signify, Who says
software can't make intelligent decisions for us? ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

All mail what i send is thoughly proof-red, definately!

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Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:55:59 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > Isn't that exactly what --keep-going does, skips any packages that
> > depends on the failed package and merge the rest?  
> 
> Yes, it does. The focus of my post was to highlight that it can be
> done, but is best done as an option, not as default.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that it should be the default, for at least
two reasons. Firstly, there is a potential risk - secondly, it is changing
the default behaviour of a program, which is rarely the best idea,

> This thread is getting a tad complex, it's getting hard to tell if a
> specific post is talking about if --keep-going is even a good idea at
> all, or if it should be an option/default...

I don't think it was ever discussed as anything but an option, but I
could be even more confused than you...


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Two is not equal to three, even for large values of two.
Neil Bothwick

DANGER! DANGER! Computer store ahead...hide wallet.
Neil Bothwick

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
Neil Bothwick

Old programmers never die; they just branch to a new address.
Neil Bothwick

We can sympathize with a child who is afraid of the dark, but the
tragedy of life is that most people are afraid of the light.
Neil Bothwick

Mac screen message: "Like, dude, something went wrong."
Neil Bothwick

Why is the word abbreviation so long?
Neil Bothwick

IBM - Incredibly Bastardized Multitasking...
Neil Bothwick

I am not arguing with you, I'm telling you.
Neil Bothwick

As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
Neil Bothwick

Drive not ready: (R)etry (G)o to Impulse (C)all Engineering
Neil Bothwick

If at first you don't succeed, well...darn.
Neil Bothwick

I am Barney of Borg: I love you. You love me. We're a happy Borg.
Neil Bothwick

If the pen is mightier than the sword, and a picture is worth a thousand
words, how dangerous is a fax?
Neil Bothwick

Any given program will expand to fill available memory.
Neil Bothwick

(A)bort (R)etry (T)ake an axe to it?
Neil Bothwick

KPLA Klingon Radio : All glory, all the time!
Neil Bothwick

KPLA: Warrior's Radio! All the glory, all the time!
Neil Bothwick

I married your mother because I wanted children.
Imagine my disappointment when you came along.
Neil Bothwick

Blessed be the pessimist for he hath made backups.
Neil Bothwick

.sig? we don't need no stinkin' .sig!
Neil Bothwick

I am NOT Paranoid! And why are you always watching me??
Neil Bothwick

In an atomic war, all men will be cremated equal.
Neil Bothwick

I'd prefer the non-smoking lifeboat, please.
Neil Bothwick

A real programmer never documents his code.
It was hard to make, it should be hard to read
Neil Bothwick

After a number of decimal places, nobody gives a damn.
Neil Bothwick

Reality is an obstacle to hallucination.
Neil Bothwick

And all the Borg left was this darn PC Clone...
Neil Bothwick

If you think you know what I am saying, you must misunderstand
Neil Bothwick

BORG spreadsheet program: Locutus 1-2-3.
Neil Bothwick

PENTIUM: Produces Erroneous Numbers Thru Incorrect Understanding of
Mathematics Neil Bothwick

The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.
Neil Bothwick

I have a mind like a steel...uh...thingamajig...
Neil Bothwick

Q. How many mice does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A. Only two - but it's difficult to get them in there.
Neil Bothwick

To poldly bow air mobius gumby four: Trek on novocaine.
Neil Bothwick

I thought I saw the light at the end of the tunnel...
but it was just some sod with a torch bringing me more work!
Neil Bothwick

Read the docs? What a RADICAL concept!
Neil Bothwick

Daddy? What's this little red button for?
Neil Bothwick

I'm not tense, just terribly alert!
Neil Bothwick

... ebius tagline. This is a moebius tagline. This is a mo ...
Neil Bothwick

"Did you sleep well?" "No, I made a couple of mistakes."
Neil Bothwick

... if (pot.coffee == EMPTY) { programmer->brain = OFF };
Neil Bothwick

I've seen the procedure hundreds of times. - Qwark
Neil Bothwick

Fasten your seatbelt ... I wanna try something.
Neil Bothwick

I have nothing but respect for you, and not much of that.
Neil Bothwick

First Law of Laboratory Work:
Hot glass looks exactly the same as cold glass.
Neil Bothwick

Why is bra singular and pants plural?
Neil Bothwick

You couldn't get a job as a firing squad target.
Neil Bothwick

Jimmy Hoffa is buried here ------> X
Neil Bothwick

Boss spelled backwards is "double-SOB"
Neil Bothwick

"Have you lived in this village all your life?"
"No, not yet."
Neil Bothwick

Don't count the days, make the days count.
Neil Bothwick

Pound for pound, the amoeba is the most vicious animal on the earth.
Neil Bothwick

Don't let your mind wander, it's too little to be let out alone.
Neil Bothwick

UNIX is the OS of the future and always will be...
Neil Bothwick

Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers
believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet."
Neil Bothwick

Monday is the root of all evil!
Neil Bothwick

One-seventh of life is spent on Monday.
Neil Bothwick

Just when my ship comes in, it's the Kobyashi Maru.
Neil Bothwick

Be nice to moderators. They HATE that!
Neil Bothwick

PENTIUM: Produces Erroneous Numbers Thru Incorrect Understanding of
Mathematics Neil Bothwick

Don't put all your hypes in one home page.
Neil Bothwick

Modesty Becomes You. Try It More Often.
Neil Bothwick

Why doesn't onomatopoeia sound like what it means?
Neil Bothwick

"Bother," said Pooh, when he read his AIDS test results.
Neil Bothwick

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
 RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9
Neil Bothwick

Why is it a that a fool and his money never appear when you need a loan?
Neil Bothwick

I have nothing but respect for you, and not much of that.
Neil Bothwick

Windows 3.2 will be released when 3.1 finishes loading.
Neil Bothwick

"Bother," said Pooh, more from force of habit than anything else.
Neil Bothwick

File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
Neil Bothwick

Success is making it to the top of the food chain!
Neil Bothwick

My wallet's cache is disabled.
Neil Bothwick

Always remember to pillage before you burn.
Neil Bothwick

Southern DOS: Y'all reckon? (Yep/Nope)
Neil Bothwick

Click..Click..Click..Damn! Out of taglines!
Neil Bothwick

Diagonally parked in a head-on universe...
Neil Bothwick

TERROR: A female Klingon with PMS.
Neil Bothwick

A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Neil Bothwick

Protect your software at all costs -- all else is meat.
Neil Bothwick

Southern DOS: Y'all reckon? (Yep/Nope)
Neil Bothwick

Electric chairs are period furniture: they end a sentence
Neil Bothwick

Evolution stops when stupidity is no longer fatal!
Neil Bothwick

"Bother" said POOH, reloading.
Neil Bothwick

Sigh - An amplifier for people who suffer in silence
Neil Bothwick

Daddy? What's this little red button for?
Neil Bothwick

Excuse me for butting in, but I'm interrupt-driven.
Neil Bothwick

"Bad dog! Leave that wire alone.....click.....###@*##....NO TERRIER
Neil Bothwick

The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. *
Bohr Neil Bothwick

Beware of geeks bearing GIF's
Neil Bothwick

--T-A+G-L-I+N-E--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E--
Neil Bothwick

As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
Neil Bothwick

SUBLIMINALsendmoneyTAGLINE
Neil Bothwick

I am Locutus of Borg; your tagline will be assimilated!
Neil Bothwick

An unemployed Court Jester is nobody's fool.
Neil Bothwick

I don't work here. I'm a consultant.
Neil Bothwick

DANGER! DANGER! Computer store ahead...hide wallet.
Neil Bothwick

Welcome to the ninth dimension. Small, isn't it?
Neil Bothwick

I don't work here. I'm a consultant.
Neil Bothwick

An example of hard water is ice.
Neil Bothwick

McBorg: Over 50 million assimilated!
Neil Bothwick

In an atomic war, all men will be cremated equal.
Neil Bothwick

Committee (noun): A life form with six or more legs and no brain.
Neil Bothwick

The law of Probability Dispersal decrees that whatever it is that hits
the fan will not be evenly distributed.
Neil Bothwick

"Bother," said Pooh, as he put his finger in the mains socket.
Neil Bothwick

There's no place like http://www.home.com
Neil Bothwick

"Vamoose you little varmit!" - Data:"A Fistfull of Datas"
Neil Bothwick

I'd prefer the non-smoking lifeboat, please.
Neil Bothwick

Sex is hereditary. If your parents never had it, chances are you wont
either. - Neil Bothwick

Why do they call it a TV set when you only get one?
Neil Bothwick

I don't know what makes you tick but I wish it was a time bomb.
Neil Bothwick

No maintenance: Impossible to fix.
Neil Bothwick

Sevareid`s Law: The chief cause of problems is solutions.
Neil Bothwick

Home is where you hang your @.
Neil Bothwick

I'm not tense, just terribly alert!
Neil Bothwick

Shell to DOS... Shell to DOS... DOS, do you copy? Shell to DOS...
Neil Bothwick

Evolution stops when stupidity is no longer fatal!
Neil Bothwick

Tagline file empty. Please refill the bit bucket.
Neil Bothwick

"Bother," said Pooh as he farted in front of a badly placed candle
Neil Bothwick

Windows 3.2 will be released when 3.1 finishes loading.
Neil Bothwick

And all the Borg left was this copy of Windows...
Neil Bothwick

Windows will never cease.
Neil Bothwick

Computers are like Old Testament gods; lots of rules and no mercy.
Neil Bothwick

.                            <-Stealth Tagline
Neil Bothwick

"Vamoose you little varmit!" - Data:"A Fistfull of Datas"
Neil Bothwick

Room service? Send up a larger room.
Neil Bothwick

Last one out, turn off the computer!
Neil Bothwick

Normality is restored. Any problems remaining are your own.
Neil Bothwick

An unemployed Court Jester is nobody's fool.
Neil Bothwick

Daddy? What's this little red button for?
Neil Bothwick

Mac screen message: "Like, dude, something went wrong."
Neil Bothwick

Modesty Becomes You. Try It More Often.
Neil Bothwick

And what else floats.....?
Neil Bothwick

All mail what i send is thoughly proof-red, definately!
Neil Bothwick

Overcome by jealousy, Data dismembers the Energizer Bunny
Neil Bothwick

Why do we park in driveways and drive on parkways?
Neil Bothwick

This man is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot
Neil Bothwick

Out of sorts? Heck, I'm out of *most* algorithms!
Neil Bothwick

Shatner, when the wig fell.
Neil Bothwick

All right, set phasers to deep fat fry!
Neil Bothwick

I don't eat snails. I prefer fast food.
Neil Bothwick

Cereal Killer Strikes Again! Cap'n Crunch found dead...
Neil Bothwick

I am Flatulus of Borg. Pull my finger.
Neil Bothwick

Paranoia: A healthy understanding of the nature of the universe.
Neil Bothwick

Stop the turbolift! Worf's carsick again...
Neil Bothwick

Virtue is it's own punishment.
Neil Bothwick

Aibohphobia: an irrational fear of palindromes.
Neil Bothwick

Try to be the best of whatever you are, even if what you are is no good.
Neil Bothwick

CAUTION: Do not install prior to installation.
Neil Bothwick

Anything is good and useful if it's made of chocolate.
Neil Bothwick

You have a tendency to feel you are superior to most computers.
Neil Bothwick

MICROSOFT: Most Intelligent Customers Realize Our Software Only Fools
Teenagers Neil Bothwick

We secretly replaced the dilithium with Folgers Crystals
Neil Bothwick

As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
Neil Bothwick

If you smoke after sex, you're doing it too fast.
Neil Bothwick

"Bother," said Pooh, as the Death Star exploded around him.
Neil Bothwick

By the time you can make ends meet, they move the ends.
Neil Bothwick

If nothing sticks to Teflon, how do they stick teflon on the pan?
Neil Bothwick

If your VCR still flashes 12:00 - then Linux is not for you.
Neil Bothwick

Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today.
Neil Bothwick

Press any key... no, no, no, NOT THAT ONE!
Neil Bothwick

File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
Neil Bothwick

As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
Neil Bothwick

NOTE: The most fundamental particles in your computer are held together
by a "glueing" force about which little is known and whose adhesive power
cannot therefore be permanently guaranteed.
Neil Bothwick

Procrastinate now!
Neil Bothwick

I yam Popeye o'de Borg. Preparez ta be askimiligrated.
Neil Bothwick

Is fire supposed to shoot out of it like that?
Neil Bothwick

If you think you know what I am saying, you must misunderstand
Neil Bothwick

To poldly bow air mobius gumby four: Trek on novocaine.
Neil Bothwick

Evolution stops when stupidity is no longer fatal!
Neil Bothwick

"Bad dog! Leave that wire alone.....click.....###@*##....NO TERRIER
Neil Bothwick

WWW: World Wide Wait
Neil Bothwick

If the funeral procession is at night, do folks drive with their lights
off? Neil Bothwick

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power. [Abraham Lincoln]
Neil Bothwick

I am MODERATOR of BORG. Follow the rules or be assimilated.
Neil Bothwick

Why do they call it a TV set when you only get one?
Neil Bothwick

If you like this tagline, call 1-800-TAGS'R'US
Neil Bothwick

Q. What have Windows and a tampon got in common?
A. They're both plug'n'play.
Neil Bothwick

Boss spelled backwards is "double-SOB"
Neil Bothwick

Two is not equal to three, even for large values of two.
Neil Bothwick

Facts are stubborn little bastards, be careful with them.
Neil Bothwick

Stupidity is NOT a handicap. You'll have to park elsewhere.
Neil Bothwick

It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a
Neil Bothwick

"Not until you get rid of that WindowsNT, Dave."
Neil Bothwick

I'm not tense, just terribly alert!
Neil Bothwick

THIS IS A 100% MATTER PRODUCT. In the unlikely event that this computer
should contact Antimatter in any form, a catastrophic explosion will
result. Neil Bothwick

McBorg: Over 50 million assimilated!
Neil Bothwick

How do I set my laser printer to stun?
Neil Bothwick

Why doesn't onomatopoeia sound like what it means?
Neil Bothwick

A consultant is a person who borrows your watch, tells you what time it
is, pockets the watch, and sends you a bill for it.
Neil Bothwick

The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. *
Bohr Neil Bothwick

Room service? Send up a larger room.
Neil Bothwick

This message has been cruelly tested on sweet little furry animals.
Neil Bothwick

How do I set my laser printer to stun?
Neil Bothwick

NOTE: The most fundamental particles in your computer are held together
by a "glueing" force about which little is known and whose adhesive power
cannot therefore be permanently guaranteed.
Neil Bothwick

Scrute the inscrutable; eff the ineffable.
Neil Bothwick

Are parttime band leaders semi-conductors?
Neil Bothwick

If the post office has machines that can sort snail mail at 1000's of
times per minute, then why do they give it to a little old man on a bike
to deliver? Neil Bothwick

"Come on! It's a whole new life out there!"
"Oh, no. Not another one!"
Neil Bothwick

The Borg assimilated my race & all I got was this T shirt.
Neil Bothwick

Random access is the optimum of the mass storages.
Neil Bothwick

Remember that the Titanic was built by experts, and the Ark by a newbie
Neil Bothwick

I'm really easy to get along with once you people learn to worship me.
Neil Bothwick

I don't work here. I'm a consultant.
Neil Bothwick

I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant.
Neil Bothwick

Modulation in all things.
Neil Bothwick

Ifyoucanreadthis,youspendtoomuchtimefiguringouttaglines.
Neil Bothwick

... Veni, Vidi, Visa - I came, I saw, I charged it.
Neil Bothwick

I've been fishing with Salvador Dali, he used a
dotted line and caught every other fish.
Neil Bothwick

Try to be the best of whatever you are, even if what you are is no good.
Neil Bothwick

BASIC: Bill's Attempt to Seize Industry Control
Neil Bothwick

I have plenty of talent and vision. I just don't give a damn.
Neil Bothwick

""  "   """  "  ""   "  """  <-- random quotes
Neil Bothwick

OPERATOR ERROR: Nyah, Nyah, Nyah, Nyah, Nyah!
Neil Bothwick

If you like this tagline, call 1-800-TAGS'R'US
Neil Bothwick

"Good Enough" is the death knell of progress.
Neil Bothwick

Duct tape is the just like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side,
and binds the universe together.
Neil Bothwick

I am Hamlet of Borg: prepare to be, or not to be...
Neil Bothwick

Do not underestimate the power of the Force.
Neil Bothwick

Unable to open TROUSER.ZIP - replace floppy and retry.
Neil Bothwick

Windows NT. Nice Try or Not There?
Neil Bothwick

The mechanic said I had blown a seal. I said, `Just fix the damn thing and
leave my private life out of it, OK?'
Neil Bothwick

There are two standards for anything...
One for the U.S. and one for the rest of the world.
Neil Bothwick

"Bother!" said Petro, as the momentum stopped.
Neil Bothwick

If the pen is mightier than the sword, and a picture is worth a thousand
words, how dangerous is a fax?
Neil Bothwick

Why do they call it a TV set when you only get one?
Neil Bothwick

Nobody's perfect and since I'm nobody...!
Neil Bothwick

CAUTION: Do not install prior to installation.
Neil Bothwick

Remember, UNIX spelled backwards is XINU.
Neil Bothwick

How is it possible to have a civil war?
Neil Bothwick

And all the Borg left was this darn PC Clone...
Neil Bothwick

"Bother," said Pooh, as the media exposed his sexual depravity.
Neil Bothwick

Why doesn't onomatopoeia sound like what it means?
Neil Bothwick

Disc space -- the final frontier!
Neil Bothwick

If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail. *
Maslow Neil Bothwick

For Sale: Positronic Brain-Found near S.F.-Needs Work
Neil Bothwick

This man is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot
Neil Bothwick

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power. [Abraham Lincoln]
Neil Bothwick

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
Neil Bothwick

Johnson & Johnson have released Y2K Jelly.
It allows you to use 4 digits where previously only 2 were used.
Neil Bothwick

If it doesn't fit, you're not using a big enough hammer.
Neil Bothwick

If only the good die young then what does that say about senior citizens?
Neil Bothwick

Politically Incorrect -- and damn proud of it!
Neil Bothwick

If at first you don't succeed, you're about normal.
Neil Bothwick

Multitasking: Reading in the bathroom.
Neil Bothwick

It must be Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Neil Bothwick

I'm not broke, I'm `financially challenged'.
Neil Bothwick

Why isn't phonetically spelled that way?
Neil Bothwick

...context...
Neil Bothwick

"Bother," said Pooh, as he started up DiskSalv
Neil Bothwick

Not tonight dear, I have a Modem!!!
Neil Bothwick

If the cops arrest a mime, do they tell her she has the right to remain
silent? Neil Bothwick

Out of body, be back in five minutes.
Neil Bothwick

"Bother," said Christopher Robin, as Pooh got out the vaseline.
Neil Bothwick

Unsolicited advice is the junk mail of life
Neil Bothwick

If I want your opinion, I'll ask you to fill out the necessary form.
Neil Bothwick

Paranoia: A healthy understanding of the nature of the universe.
Neil Bothwick

An expert is nothing more than an ordinary person away from home.
Neil Bothwick

I'd prefer the non-smoking lifeboat, please.
Neil Bothwick

The careful application of terror is also a form of communication.
Neil Bothwick

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory.
Neil Bothwick

I don't work here. I'm a consultant.
Neil Bothwick

A phaser is the universal communicator. þ Worf
Neil Bothwick

This signature project was my last, best hope to seem eloquent. It failed.
But in the year of Decency In Communications Act, it became something
greater. My last, best hope for satire. The year is 1997. The Place:
Babbling On Pine. Neil Bothwick

Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
Neil Bothwick

Stop metricationists! They are demanding their 454 grammes of flesh,
and if we give them 2.54 centimetres they'll take 1.609 kilometres!
Neil Bothwick

Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch!
Neil Bothwick

Without Time Everything Would Happen At Once!
Neil Bothwick

"Have you lived in this village all your life?"
"No, not yet."
Neil Bothwick

And all the Borg left was this darn Macintosh...
Neil Bothwick

Windows Error:01F Reserved for future mistakes.
Neil Bothwick

Never drink coffee that's been anywhere near a fish.
Neil Bothwick

DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename"...
Neil Bothwick

Warp 5.. engage. No, no, Mr. Data, more clutch!
Neil Bothwick

Get your grubby hands off my tagline! I stole it first!
Neil Bothwick

MICROSOFT: Most Intelligent Customers Realize Our Software Only Fools
Teenagers Neil Bothwick

Programming just with goto's is like swatting flies with a sledgehammer.
Neil Bothwick

Crayons can take you more places than starships. * Guinan
Neil Bothwick

Programming just with goto's is like swatting flies with a sledgehammer.
Neil Bothwick

Quantum Physics: The dreams that stuff is made of
Neil Bothwick

"Bother" said Rue, when Eeyore called him a sellout
Neil Bothwick

Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
Neil Bothwick

If there is light at the end of the tunnel...order more tunnel.
Neil Bothwick

I must have slipped a disk; my pack hurts.
Neil Bothwick

I believe I will take this opportunity to remove my ears.
Neil Bothwick

We secretly replaced the dilithium with Folgers Crystals
Neil Bothwick

Plagarism prohibited. Derive carefully.
Neil Bothwick

HANDLE WITH EXTREME CARE: This Amiga contains minute electrically charged
particles moving at velocities in excess of five hundred million miles per
hour.
Neil Bothwick

Quantum Physics: The dreams that stuff is made of
Neil Bothwick

To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is
half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
Neil Bothwick

Who needs rational when your toes curl up?
Neil Bothwick

Duct tape is the just like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side,
and binds the universe together.
Neil Bothwick

The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist.
Neil Bothwick

Nobody's perfect and since I'm nobody...!
Neil Bothwick

First Law of Laboratory Work:
Hot glass looks exactly the same as cold glass.
Neil Bothwick

"I do not fear computers, I fear the lack of them" - Asimov
Neil Bothwick

Me, indecisive? I'm not so sure about that.
Neil Bothwick

ASCII stupid question... get a stupid ANSI!
Neil Bothwick

"Bother," said Christopher Robin, as Pooh got out the vaseline.
Neil Bothwick

"How long is this Beta guy going to keep testing our stuff?"
Neil Bothwick

"...And it's 'WORF', not 'Woof'". * Worf
Neil Bothwick

Deliver a pizza? Whoever heard of a liver pizza?
Neil Bothwick

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
Neil Bothwick

Drink varnish and you'll have a lovely finish.
Neil Bothwick

I am Superconductor Borg, assimilation resistance is futile.
Neil Bothwick

Things are more like they are today than they ever have been before.
Neil Bothwick

The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Neil Bothwick

I get enough exercise just pushing my luck.
Neil Bothwick

Q. Why did the koala fall out of the tree?
A. It was dead.
Neil Bothwick

Beware of low-flying butterflies.
Neil Bothwick

Don't be humble, you're not that great.
Neil Bothwick

Me? FAT? No, just horizontally disproportionate...
Neil Bothwick

This signature project was my last, best hope to seem eloquent. It failed.
But in the year of Decency In Communications Act, it became something
greater. My last, best hope for satire. The year is 1997. The Place:
Babbling On Pine. Neil Bothwick

Custer was fitted for an Arrow shirt.
Neil Bothwick

Hi, I'm not a signature virus. Why don't you just copy me into your
signature? Neil Bothwick

Did you hear about the dyslexic devil worshiper?
He sold his soul to Santa!
Neil Bothwick

Power outage at a department store yesterday, Twenty people were
trapped on the escalators.
Neil Bothwick

"Bother," said Pooh, as he put his finger in the mains socket.
Neil Bothwick

How do "Do not walk on the grass" signs get there?
Neil Bothwick

"Bother", said Pooh, as his Harley's backend stepped out.
Neil Bothwick

If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail. *
Maslow Neil Bothwick

You shall know the truth, and you shall freak.
Neil Bothwick

Why is bra singular and pants plural?
Neil Bothwick

Procrastinate now!
Neil Bothwick

Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
Neil Bothwick

Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
Neil Bothwick

For Sale: Positronic Brain-Found near S.F.-Needs Work
Neil Bothwick

Like Entropy, bugs can only be created, not destroyed.
Neil Bothwick

Master of all I survey (at the moment, empty pizza boxes)
Neil Bothwick

Do PAL taglines take up two scanlines?
Neil Bothwick

Miracle worker, Doctor! I'm a dammit, not a jim.. no, scratch that...
Neil Bothwick

Taglines are like cars - You get a good one, then someone nicks it.
Neil Bothwick

And all the Borg left was this copy of OS/2...
Neil Bothwick

Don't count the days, make the days count.
Neil Bothwick

"Hey, dad, remember our car?" -- Calvin
Neil Bothwick

For Sale: Positronic Brain-Found near S.F.-Needs Work
Neil Bothwick

DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename"...

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Stroller]

On 16 Sep 2008, at 17:50, Matthias Bethke wrote:
> on Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 10:26:56PM +0200, you wrote:
>> Seriously: can someone more skilled than me explain why using
>> --resume-skipfirst and then trying to solve the unmerged packages  
>> is/can be
>> a bad idea? How can this break the system?
>
> Frankly I have no idea. I've heard that argument many times in the
> Paludis discussions but never even an attempt at an explanation that
> went beyond "it breaks your system". My understanding is that you can
> have two kinds of situation if an upgrade fails:
> ...
> b) the failed package is a dependency of at least one other package
> In case a) you get to keep the old version, no problem.

The risk is that you want to install X that depends upon Y.

The ebuild for X states that version >1.2.3 of Y must be used because  
there's a bug in 1.2.2.

The new version of Y fails to compile, so when X is compiled it only  
has the old version of Y to work with. It may compile OK but not work  
or feature a security bug.

In the ideal world X's ebuild will fail, recognizing that Y is too  
old, and I think it will - my explanation may not literally be  
correct, but I hope you get the idea.

What should NOT be in dispute is that Portage is a big old mess and  
well in need of replacement. It was never designed to do what it does  
now. Hopefully the replacement chosen to be integrated into Gentoo  
itself will be chosen on its merits, whether that be Paludis or  
something else.

Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Re: I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Remy Blank]

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> I don't think it was ever discussed as anything but an option, but I
> could be even more confused than you...

Looks like the disease is spreading, now your signature script is even 
more confused than you ;-)

Good database, though!

-- Remy


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Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:05:29 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > This thread is getting a tad complex, it's getting hard to tell if a
> > specific post is talking about if --keep-going is even a good idea at
> > all, or if it should be an option/default...
>
> I don't think it was ever discussed as anything but an option, but I
> could be even more confused than you...

You, more confused than I?

No, my friend. That is unpossible.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:14:10 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > I don't think it was ever discussed as anything but an option, but I
> > could be even more confused than you...  
> 
> You, more confused than I?
> 
> No, my friend. That is unpossible.

In the spirit of list harmony, I shall agree with you :)

-- 
Neil Bothwick

A computer program does what you tell it to do, not what you want it to do.

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Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 20:43:06 Dale wrote:
>   
>> I have used --skipfirst before but I also don't think it is a good
>> idea.  For a idiot like me to say that must mean something.  I guess it
>> would depend on the package as to whether it could be skipped or not.  
>> If I do a emerge -e world, I prefer nothing to fail else what is the point?
>>     
>
> Sometimes stuff does fail - you can't fully know beforehand if an ebuild will 
> succeed or not. --skipfirst is perfectly safe if you have looked at the 
> package list and know that there's no dependency issues. The danger is 
> blindly resuming without understanding the consequences.
>
> For example, lets assume there's a package called alan-fonts-meta which 
> depends on 20 fancy wingding-type fonts. Lets also assume that I was a dork 
> when coding one font ebuild at 4am and botched the SRC_URI. That ebuild will 
> fail, but you know for sure that you can safely --resume --skipfirst 
> (followed by a scathing email with a blunt instrument as payload).
>
> Other examples exist. OTOH, if the expat upgrade of some months ago failed, a 
> blind resume would likely have caused endless troubles.
>
>   

That was my point in a round about way.  If you don't know, don't use 
--skipfirst since it could mess up some stuff and turn your puter into a 
mess after logging out or a reboot.  I'm thinking some of the more 
serious system packages with that.

Me, I don't even claim to know so I either ask or fix what borked.  LOL

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Vaeth]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Stroller wrote:
> 
> The risk is that you want to install X that depends upon Y.
> 
> The ebuild for X states that version >1.2.3 of Y must be used because
> there's a bug in 1.2.2.
> 
> The new version of Y fails to compile, so when X is compiled it only
> has the old version of Y to work with. It may compile OK but not work
> or feature a security bug.

That's not the real risk: Since any sane user will of course check which
packages have failed and make sure that the upgraded version will be
installed, this will not leave you with an inconsistent system
(the next emerge -NaDu world - which of course also any sane user would
do afterwards - would even tell you the problem, and in case of an ABI
change you would be informed by revdep-rebuild).
The only case I can think of where _really_ problems might arise is the
(very rare) situation which I had described: That the ./configure script
of X builds X without errors but also without support for Y if only 1.2.2
of Y is installed:
Then neither later upgrading of Y nor revdep-rebuild will show anything
suspicious, although X does not behave in the intended way.

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 17 September 2008 10:01:43 Vaeth wrote:
> > The new version of Y fails to compile, so when X is compiled it only
> > has the old version of Y to work with. It may compile OK but not work
> > or feature a security bug.
>
> That's not the real risk: Since any sane user will of course check

Obviously, you deal with a completely different class of user to what I have 
to deal with....

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[b.n.]

Vaeth ha scritto:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Stroller wrote:
>> The risk is that you want to install X that depends upon Y.
>>
>> The ebuild for X states that version >1.2.3 of Y must be used because
>> there's a bug in 1.2.2.
>>
>> The new version of Y fails to compile, so when X is compiled it only
>> has the old version of Y to work with. It may compile OK but not work
>> or feature a security bug.
> 
> That's not the real risk: Since any sane user will of course check which
> packages have failed and make sure that the upgraded version will be
> installed, this will not leave you with an inconsistent system
> (the next emerge -NaDu world - which of course also any sane user would
> do afterwards - would even tell you the problem, and in case of an ABI
> change you would be informed by revdep-rebuild).

Well, that's exactly the point where ciaranm and others accused r0bertz 
(and implicitly me, usually doing the same) of being... well, the title 
of my original post is clear.

"(mlangc) if your "update" script leaves your system unusable you would 
not even have a clue what went wrong ....
[...]
(zhllg) mlangc, i can find which packages are broken
(zhllg) just run emerge -tavuDN world again immediately after running 
that script
[...]
(ciaranm) idiot is too mild a term for this one"

Harsh tones/awkward social skills apart :) , the guys seem to imply this 
kind of check is not enough.


> The only case I can think of where _really_ problems might arise is the
> (very rare) situation which I had described: That the ./configure script
> of X builds X without errors but also without support for Y if only 1.2.2
> of Y is installed:
> Then neither later upgrading of Y nor revdep-rebuild will show anything
> suspicious, although X does not behave in the intended way.

Very clear, thanks.
This is, technically, a bug in the ./configure ,however, isn't it?

m.

Re: [gentoo-user] I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 18 September 2008 03:24:47 b.n. wrote:
> > The only case I can think of where _really_ problems might arise is the
> > (very rare) situation which I had described: That the ./configure script
> > of X builds X without errors but also without support for Y if only 1.2.2
> > of Y is installed:
> > Then neither later upgrading of Y nor revdep-rebuild will show anything
> > suspicious, although X does not behave in the intended way.
>
> Very clear, thanks.
> This is, technically, a bug in the ./configure ,however, isn't it?

That's my thinking too. The correct action would be to patch the ./configure 
and submit the patches upstream so everyone benefits. But it's not always so 
easy.

For example, I build e17 from svn and keep my own custom overlay for it. Most 
packages have --enable- options but some features are automagically detected 
at configure time, which leads to the exact problem described above, and it 
has happened to me. So it's not a theoretical possibility but a real (albeit 
rare) one.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com