[gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Jerry McBride]

In case you've missed it... the latest of the 3.5 version KDE is now in 
portage. It's still keyworded and masked, but still usable.

Compiling it now.


Cheers...

If only 4.1.1 was there... :')

Cheers again...
-- 

"I was once told that adding ice to Makers Mark was alcohol abuse... Thank 
God! I thought I had a drinking problem..."


From the Desk of: Jerome D. McBride

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Erik Hahn]

> If only 4.1.1 was there... :')
 You know, there's an overlay...

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Mariusz Przygodzki]

On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Erik Hahn <ng.ehahn@gmx.de> wrote:
>> If only 4.1.1 was there... :')
>  You know, there's an overlay...

But unfortunately it requires plaudis ...

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Mariusz Przygodzki]

On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:41 PM, b.n. <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mariusz Przygodzki ha scritto:
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Erik Hahn <ng.ehahn@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If only 4.1.1 was there... :')
>>>
>>>  You know, there's an overlay...
>>
>> But unfortunately it requires plaudis ...
>>
>
> At what point "stabilization" of KDE 4 is?

None. It was about "availability", not "stabilization".

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[b.n.]

Mariusz Przygodzki ha scritto:
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Erik Hahn <ng.ehahn@gmx.de> wrote:
>>> If only 4.1.1 was there... :')
>>  You know, there's an overlay...
> 
> But unfortunately it requires plaudis ...
> 

At what point "stabilization" of KDE 4 is?

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sunday 14 September 2008, Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Erik Hahn <ng.ehahn@gmx.de> wrote:
> >> If only 4.1.1 was there... :')
> >
> >  You know, there's an overlay...
>
> But unfortunately it requires plaudis ...

no it does not.
kdesvn-portage has ebuilds for:
4.1.1
4.1.65
svn

and works with paludis, pkgcore and portage.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Constantine D. Kardaris]

Not this one

layman -a kdesvn-portage

On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Mariusz Przygodzki
<mariusz.przygodzki@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Erik Hahn <ng.ehahn@gmx.de> wrote:
>>> If only 4.1.1 was there... :')
>>  You know, there's an overlay...
>
> But unfortunately it requires plaudis ...
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Sonntag, 14. September 2008 19:16:08 schrieb Mariusz Przygodzki:

> But unfortunately it requires plaudis ...

Why is it unfortunate?

Bye...

	Dirk

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 14 September 2008 19:16:08 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Erik Hahn <ng.ehahn@gmx.de> wrote:
> >> If only 4.1.1 was there... :')
> >
> >  You know, there's an overlay...
>
> But unfortunately it requires plaudis ...

There's *two* kde overlays, developed in parallel. One requires paludis, the 
other doesn't:

alan@nazgul /var/distfiles/svn-src/e17/e/trunk/E-MODULES-EXTRA $ eix kde-meta
[I] kde-base/kde-meta
     Available versions:
        (3.5)   3.5.9
        (kde-4) [M](~)4.0.4 [M](~)4.0.5
        (4.1)   (~)4.1.1[1]
        (4.2)   **4.1.65[1]
        (kde-svn)       **9999[1]
        {accessibility admin edu games graphics l10n multimedia network nls 
pim sdk toys utils}
     Installed versions:  3.5.9(3.5)(15:12:36 09/04/08)(-accessibility -nls)
                          4.1.1(4.1)[1](01:57:59 09/05/08)(admin edu games 
graphics l10n multimedia network pim sdk toys utils -accessibility)
     Homepage:            http://www.kde.org/
     Description:         KDE - merge this to pull in all non-developer, split 
kde-base/* packages

[1] "kde4-overlay" /var/portage/local/layman/kdesvn-portage


I don't have paludis. I do have kde-4.1.1

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sunday 14 September 2008, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 14. September 2008 19:16:08 schrieb Mariusz Przygodzki:
> > But unfortunately it requires plaudis ...
>
> Why is it unfortunate?

because not everybody wants to install that bloated thing - watch it devour 
config files and be insulted by the troll-brigade.

Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake.

And as kdesvn-portage shows - it was unneeded. 'We need the features of 
paludis' was shown as bs. Just another little trick by the paludis-group to 
convert people.

Luckily that failed. You don't need it.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Mariusz Przygodzki]

On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 8:28 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
<volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
>> Am Sonntag, 14. September 2008 19:16:08 schrieb Mariusz Przygodzki:
>> > But unfortunately it requires plaudis ...
>>
>> Why is it unfortunate?
>
> because not everybody wants to install that bloated thing - watch it devour
> config files and be insulted by the troll-brigade.
>
> Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake.
>
> And as kdesvn-portage shows - it was unneeded. 'We need the features of
> paludis' was shown as bs. Just another little trick by the paludis-group to
> convert people.
>
> Luckily that failed. You don't need it.

Fair enough. Thank you very much for pointing it.
And I really didn't know about "unofficial" kdesvn-portage until now.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[b.n.]

Mariusz Przygodzki ha scritto:
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:41 PM, b.n. <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mariusz Przygodzki ha scritto:
>>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Erik Hahn <ng.ehahn@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>> If only 4.1.1 was there... :')
>>>>  You know, there's an overlay...
>>> But unfortunately it requires plaudis ...
>>>
>> At what point "stabilization" of KDE 4 is?
> 
> None. It was about "availability", not "stabilization".

Don't understand. But probably I wasn't making myself clear at all :)

What I mean is, for people that do not want to mess with overlays, at 
what point is kde 4 on the path towards being x86 stable? Any news?

m.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Sunday 14 September 2008 19:28:28 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> because not everybody wants to install that bloated thing

Not bloated.

> watch it devour config files

Lies.

> and be insulted by the troll-brigade. 

The only people who get insulted are those who repeatedly and deliberately 
spread vicious lies, FUD and personal attacks.

> Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake.

It's not "paludis-only", it will work with any package manager whose 
developers care enough to support the useful features of the kdebuild-1 EAPI.

> And as kdesvn-portage shows - it was unneeded.

"Unneeded" is a funny word.  You don't "need" ebuilds at all, but that doesn't 
mean they're not useful.

> 'We need the features of paludis' was shown as bs.

No-one said any such thing.  They did say that they were sick of waiting years 
and years for Portage to provide features that would have made their and 
their users lives a lot easier.

> Just another little trick by the paludis-group

The KDE overlay isn't produced by the "paludis-group".

> to convert people.

No, to provide ebuilds that make use of useful features that benefit both 
users and developers.

> Luckily that failed.

Wrong.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Mariusz Przygodzki]

On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 9:14 PM, David Leverton
<levertond@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 19:28:28 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>> 'We need the features of paludis' was shown as bs.
>
> No-one said any such thing.  They did say that they were sick of waiting years
> and years for Portage to provide features that would have made their and
> their users lives a lot easier.

Maybe "they" were waiting so many years because "they" have never
asked users about what users really need and think about it.

"It's not that we hate you (unless we do). It's just that we have
nothing to offer you, and you have nothing to offer us."

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Sunday 14 September 2008 20:27:52 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
> Maybe "they" were waiting so many years because "they" have never
> asked users about what users really need and think about it.

What?

> "It's not that we hate you (unless we do). It's just that we have
> nothing to offer you, and you have nothing to offer us."

Since that has absolutely nothing do to with the topic of discussion, or 
indeed anything Gentoo-related, your quoting of it at me can only be 
considered a personal attack.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Mariusz Przygodzki]

On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 9:35 PM, David Leverton
<levertond@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 20:27:52 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
>> Maybe "they" were waiting so many years because "they" have never
>> asked users about what users really need and think about it.
>
> What?
>
>> "It's not that we hate you (unless we do). It's just that we have
>> nothing to offer you, and you have nothing to offer us."
>
> Since that has absolutely nothing do to with the topic of discussion, or
> indeed anything Gentoo-related, your quoting of it at me can only be
> considered a personal attack.

No, it is NOT.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Sunday 14 September 2008 20:38:49 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
> No, it is NOT.

Then what is it?  If you're not sniping at me (or possibly the genkdesvn team) 
for being involved with Exherbo, why did you post that here?

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Sonntag, 14. September 2008 20:28:28 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:

> Just another little trick by the paludis-group to
> convert people.

I started using paludis long before that overlay even existed. Didn't need any 
tricks.

Bye...

	Dirk

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sunday 14 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 19:28:28 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > because not everybody wants to install that bloated thing
>
> Not bloated.

I am sorry: 
extremly bloated.

>
> > watch it devour config files
>
> Lies.

oh really? what happens when you forget the 'portage' useflag? Hm?

>
> > and be insulted by the troll-brigade.
>
> The only people who get insulted are those who repeatedly and deliberately
> spread vicious lies, FUD and personal attacks.

oh really? There are enough examples of troll behaviour. Starting with Ciaranm 
himself. SPB and rbrown are good examples too.

>
> > Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake.
>
> It's not "paludis-only", it will work with any package manager whose
> developers care enough to support the useful features of the kdebuild-1
> EAPI.

and that was an official api? Yes? No?

Was it needed? No - proven by kdesvn-portage

>
> > And as kdesvn-portage shows - it was unneeded.
>
> "Unneeded" is a funny word.  You don't "need" ebuilds at all, but that
> doesn't mean they're not useful.

unneeded is the correct choice of words. That 'special feature that only 
paludis - and unoffical packet manager  developed by a dev team which has a 
very high 'forcefully retired' content - has' was not needed - as shown by 
kdesvn-portage.

> > Just another little trick by the paludis-group
>
> The KDE overlay isn't produced by the "paludis-group".

no, it was just made by vivid paludis fans. Hey, lets make an overlay a lot of 
user want - and make it paludis only. That way we can push paludis!

> No, to provide ebuilds that make use of useful features that benefit both
> users and developers.

which one? Which features 'benefit both users and developers' and are sooo 
important that the kde overlay had to be paludis only?

Name them please.

Oh, does paludis support and equivalent to 'keep-going' or '--ignore-failures' 
or are people who wants this extremly usefull features still attacked and 
insulted?

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Mariusz Przygodzki]

On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 9:41 PM, David Leverton
<levertond@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 20:38:49 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
>> No, it is NOT.
>
> Then what is it?  If you're not sniping at me (or possibly the genkdesvn team)
> for being involved with Exherbo, why did you post that here?

That's simple :)
The mentioned quotation is an accurate conclusion of discussion about
"why Gentoo users shoud use paludis to install and test KDE4 desktop
efficiently ?".

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Sonntag, 14. September 2008 22:37:21 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:

> Oh, does paludis support and equivalent to 'keep-going' or
> '--ignore-failures'

Yes.

Bye...

	Dirk

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:37:21 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> > On Sunday 14 September 2008 19:28:28 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > > because not everybody wants to install that bloated thing
> >
> > Not bloated.
>
> I am sorry:
> extremly bloated.

I see you're still as good at logic as ever.

> > > watch it devour config files
> >
> > Lies.
>
> oh really? what happens when you forget the 'portage' useflag? Hm?

It installs without support for reading Portage configuration files, in the 
same way that almost everything else in the tree doesn't support Portage 
configuration files.  You surely wouldn't say that any of those "devour 
config files" (at least not for that reason), so why do you say it about 
Paludis?

> > > and be insulted by the troll-brigade.
> >
> > The only people who get insulted are those who repeatedly and
> > deliberately spread vicious lies, FUD and personal attacks.
>
> oh really? There are enough examples of troll behaviour. Starting with
> Ciaranm himself. SPB and rbrown are good examples too.

Again, lies and personal attacks.

> > > Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake.
> >
> > It's not "paludis-only", it will work with any package manager whose
> > developers care enough to support the useful features of the kdebuild-1
> > EAPI.
>
> and that was an official api? Yes? No?

Irrelevant.

> Was it needed? No - proven by kdesvn-portage

I didn't say it was needed.  I said it was useful enough that the genkdesvn 
team decided that, in their opinion, the benefits outweighed the drawbacks.  
Other people obviously had different priorities, and so they produced 
something that suited their needs better.

> > > And as kdesvn-portage shows - it was unneeded.
> >
> > "Unneeded" is a funny word.  You don't "need" ebuilds at all, but that
> > doesn't mean they're not useful.
>
> unneeded is the correct choice of words.

It is, in the sense that it's not false, but the inferences that you draw from 
it are spectacularly wrong.

> That 'special feature that only paludis - and unoffical packet manager
> developed by a dev team which has a very high 'forcefully retired' content

Personal attacks etc.  Just because Gentoo was forced to choose between 
retiring some developers and losing a sponsor doesn't mean that anything 
those developers ever worked on is evil.

> was not needed - as shown by kdesvn-portage.

You consistently demonstrate a complete failure to comprehend anything in my 
post.

> > > Just another little trick by the paludis-group
> >
> > The KDE overlay isn't produced by the "paludis-group".
>
> no, it was just made by vivid paludis fans. Hey, lets make an overlay a lot
> of user want - and make it paludis only. That way we can push paludis!

No, "That way we can use useful features that have been supported in Paludis 
for months if not years, instead of having to work around Portage's 
limitations!"

> which one? Which features 'benefit both users and developers' and are sooo
> important that the kde overlay had to be paludis only?
>
> Name them please.

USE deps are the main one.  Yes, Portage supports them now, but it didn't at 
the time, and no-one expected that it would within a reasonable time period.  
Suggested deps are another nice one.  You can read the details of the rest in 
PMS.

> Oh, does paludis support and equivalent to 'keep-going' or
> '--ignore-failures'

Read the documentation.

> or are people who wants this extremly usefull features still attacked and
> insulted? 

No-one has been attacked and insulted for wanting extremely useful features.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:39:39 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
> That's simple :)
> The mentioned quotation is an accurate conclusion

That phrase does not make sense.

> of discussion about "why Gentoo users shoud use paludis to install
> and test KDE4 desktop efficiently ?".

That quotation is not in any way relevant to anything involving Gentoo.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Mariusz Przygodzki]

On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 10:55 PM, David Leverton
<levertond@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:39:39 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
>> That's simple :)
>> The mentioned quotation is an accurate conclusion
>
> That phrase does not make sense.
>
>> of discussion about "why Gentoo users shoud use paludis to install
>> and test KDE4 desktop efficiently ?".
>
> That quotation is not in any way relevant to anything involving Gentoo.

You has just confirmed again your attitude towards Gentoo users who
want to use KDE4.
Bye

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Sunday 14 September 2008 22:02:08 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
> You has just confirmed again your attitude towards Gentoo users who
> want to use KDE4.

Er, I have no attitude, either positive or negative, towards Gentoo users who 
want to use KDE 4.  Kindly explain what the hell you're talking about, or, as 
I said earlier, I'll be forced to assume that you're a troll spreading 
personal attacks.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:11:18 b.n. wrote:
> Mariusz Przygodzki ha scritto:
> > On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:41 PM, b.n. <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Mariusz Przygodzki ha scritto:
> >>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Erik Hahn <ng.ehahn@gmx.de> wrote:
> >>>>> If only 4.1.1 was there... :')
> >>>>
> >>>>  You know, there's an overlay...
> >>>
> >>> But unfortunately it requires plaudis ...
> >>
> >> At what point "stabilization" of KDE 4 is?
> >
> > None. It was about "availability", not "stabilization".
>
> Don't understand. But probably I wasn't making myself clear at all :)
>
> What I mean is, for people that do not want to mess with overlays, at
> what point is kde 4 on the path towards being x86 stable? Any news?

You'll have a long wait for that. The KDE devs are talking about 4.2 being 
useable by regular users. 4.1.1 is ~amd64 and ~x86 in the overlay and nothing 
has hit the official tree yet.

I have no idea when KDE4 will go stable, and I doubt anyone else does either - 
it's a very volatile thing - but I think I'm quite safe in guessing that it 
won't happen before 4.2 and not before early next year.



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:35:08 David Leverton wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 20:27:52 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
> > Maybe "they" were waiting so many years because "they" have never
> > asked users about what users really need and think about it.
>
> What?
>
> > "It's not that we hate you (unless we do). It's just that we have
> > nothing to offer you, and you have nothing to offer us."
>
> Since that has absolutely nothing do to with the topic of discussion, or
> indeed anything Gentoo-related, your quoting of it at me can only be
> considered a personal attack.

It's also not even a quote from the paludis devs. It's something Ciaran put on 
a web page about a *highly*experimental* new distro - basically a fork of 
gentoo ideas that he and his pals could fool around with

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sunday 14 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:37:21 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > On Sunday 14 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> > > On Sunday 14 September 2008 19:28:28 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > > > because not everybody wants to install that bloated thing
> > >
> > > Not bloated.
> >
> > I am sorry:
> > extremly bloated.
>
> I see you're still as good at logic as ever.
>
> > > > watch it devour config files
> > >
> > > Lies.
> >
> > oh really? what happens when you forget the 'portage' useflag? Hm?
>
> It installs without support for reading Portage configuration files, in the
> same way that almost everything else in the tree doesn't support Portage
> configuration files.  You surely wouldn't say that any of those "devour
> config files" (at least not for that reason), so why do you say it about
> Paludis?
>
> > > > and be insulted by the troll-brigade.
> > >
> > > The only people who get insulted are those who repeatedly and
> > > deliberately spread vicious lies, FUD and personal attacks.
> >
> > oh really? There are enough examples of troll behaviour. Starting with
> > Ciaranm himself. SPB and rbrown are good examples too.
>
> Again, lies and personal attacks.

yeah, sure. But no. Not lies. Or why were this guys forcefully retired? For 
their behaviour.

Also:
http://r0bertz.blogspot.com/2007/01/be-careful-when-you-are-on-paludis.html

> > and that was an official api? Yes? No?
>
> Irrelevant.

no, not irrelevant but the beef of the story.

> Personal attacks etc.  Just because Gentoo was forced to choose between
> retiring some developers and losing a sponsor doesn't mean that anything
> those developers ever worked on is evil.

no, it just makes you think if you should really use a piece of software whose 
makers will insult and ridicule you.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Sunday 14 September 2008 22:38:42 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> yeah, sure. But no. Not lies. Or why were this guys forcefully retired? For
> their behaviour.

No, to prevent Gentoo from losing a major sponsor.

> Also:
> http://r0bertz.blogspot.com/2007/01/be-careful-when-you-are-on-paludis.html

Idiot does something idiotic and is called "idiot".  Film at 11.

> > > and that was an official api? Yes? No?
> >
> > Irrelevant.
>
> no, not irrelevant but the beef of the story.

So your bureaucratic little rules about what's "official" and what isn't are 
more important than what's actually useful?

> > Personal attacks etc.  Just because Gentoo was forced to choose between
> > retiring some developers and losing a sponsor doesn't mean that anything
> > those developers ever worked on is evil.
>
> no, it just makes you think if you should really use a piece of software
> whose makers will insult and ridicule you.

If anyone likes to "insult and ridicule" Paludis users, it's not the Paludis 
developers.

A plea for calm (was: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...)

[Allan Gottlieb]

I am a delighted gentoo user who neither uses plaudis nor has any
complaint with it or its developers.  I also don't use kde, but have
no complaint with it or its developers.

I wonder if we could end this plaudis argument, as I don't see how the
argument can actually help anyone.

thanks,
allan

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sunday 14 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 22:38:42 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > yeah, sure. But no. Not lies. Or why were this guys forcefully retired?
> > For their behaviour.
>
> No, to prevent Gentoo from losing a major sponsor.
>
> > Also:
> > http://r0bertz.blogspot.com/2007/01/be-careful-when-you-are-on-paludis.ht
> >ml
>
> Idiot does something idiotic and is called "idiot".  Film at 11.

he asked for a feature. Nothing else. Oh, wait, that is r0bertz - a fellow 
dev!

>
> > > > and that was an official api? Yes? No?
> > >
> > > Irrelevant.
> >
> > no, not irrelevant but the beef of the story.
>
> So your bureaucratic little rules about what's "official" and what isn't
> are more important than what's actually useful?

lets see - an overlay is setup to develop and test ebuilds for KDE4 that 
should some day go into the tree.

Deciding to use a feature that the official pm does not provide - and only one 
of the three makes the 'testing' part and 'for the tree' pretty superfluos.

> > no, it just makes you think if you should really use a piece of software
> > whose makers will insult and ridicule you.
>
> If anyone likes to "insult and ridicule" Paludis users, it's not the
> Paludis developers.

no, they like to insult everybody no matter what they use - right?

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sunday 14 September 2008, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 14. September 2008 22:37:21 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:
> > Oh, does paludis support and equivalent to 'keep-going' or
> > '--ignore-failures'
>
> Yes.
>
> Bye...
>
> 	Dirk


so first they attacked someone for asking for it - and then implemented it?
nice.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sunday 14 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:37:21 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > On Sunday 14 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> > > On Sunday 14 September 2008 19:28:28 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > > > because not everybody wants to install that bloated thing
> > >
> > > Not bloated.
> >
> > I am sorry:
> > extremly bloated.
>
> I see you're still as good at logic as ever.
>
> > > > watch it devour config files
> > >
> > > Lies.
> >
> > oh really? what happens when you forget the 'portage' useflag? Hm?
>
> It installs without support for reading Portage configuration files, in the
> same way that almost everything else in the tree doesn't support Portage
> configuration files.  You surely wouldn't say that any of those "devour
> config files" (at least not for that reason), so why do you say it about
> Paludis?
>
> > > > and be insulted by the troll-brigade.
> > >
> > > The only people who get insulted are those who repeatedly and
> > > deliberately spread vicious lies, FUD and personal attacks.
> >
> > oh really? There are enough examples of troll behaviour. Starting with
> > Ciaranm himself. SPB and rbrown are good examples too.


> Again, lies and personal attacks.

after I gave you a link where spb, rbrown, and ciaranm insulted somebody who 
just asked for a feature...

How about an apology? I said the truth, you called me a liar. Which is btw 
trolling and a personal attack.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Sunday 14 September 2008 23:38:18 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> he asked for a feature. Nothing else.

No, he admitted to doing something incredibly, system-breakingly idiotic.

> Oh, wait, that is r0bertz - a fellow dev!

A sad day for Gentoo, indeed.

> lets see - an overlay is setup to develop and test ebuilds for KDE4 that
> should some day go into the tree.

Who are you to speak for the KDE team about their goals?

> no, they like to insult everybody no matter what they use - right?

Wrong.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Sunday 14 September 2008 23:44:55 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> after I gave you a link where spb, rbrown, and ciaranm insulted somebody
> who just asked for a feature...

He did not "just" ask for a feature, he admitted to doing something highly 
stupid and likely to destroy his system.

> How about an apology?

Yes please.

> I said the truth

No you didn't.

> you called me a liar. 

If you tell lies, then you are a liar.

> Which is btw trolling and a personal attack.

Not if it's true.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Constantine D. Kardaris]

kde overlay supposed to be the official overlay of kde herd (is not any more).
What i understand is that they tried to force EAPI features in portage
and/or paludis for the official gentoo pm.
Even if they did that for good and with the belief that it was the way
to go, still an overlay is a place of collaboration between devs and
users.
It supposed to be a place to test new ebuilds etc to enter in main
tree as stable as possible.
Using it for politics was not the best choice IMHO. Maybe i'm wrong tho ^^

On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
<volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
>> Am Sonntag, 14. September 2008 19:16:08 schrieb Mariusz Przygodzki:
>> > But unfortunately it requires plaudis ...
>>
>> Why is it unfortunate?
>
> because not everybody wants to install that bloated thing - watch it devour
> config files and be insulted by the troll-brigade.
>
> Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake.
>
> And as kdesvn-portage shows - it was unneeded. 'We need the features of
> paludis' was shown as bs. Just another little trick by the paludis-group to
> convert people.
>
> Luckily that failed. You don't need it.
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Monday 15 September 2008 00:07:03 Constantine D. Kardaris wrote:
> Using it for politics was not the best choice IMHO. Maybe i'm wrong tho ^^

As has already been explained countless times, nothing is being used for 
politics (at least not by the genkdesvn team).

[gentoo-user] Re: KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[»Q«]

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:11:18 +0200
"b.n." <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:

> What I mean is, for people that do not want to mess with overlays, at 
> what point is kde 4 on the path towards being x86 stable? Any news?

No timetables, but some news recently.

<http://blog.cryos.net/archives/189-KDE-4.1-Gentoo-Ebuilds.html>

<http://blog.cryos.net/archives/190-An-Update-on-the-Gentoo-KDE-4.1-Ebuilds.html>

-- 
»Q«
     Kleeneness is next to Gödelness.

[gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[b.n.]

Allan Gottlieb ha scritto:
> I am a delighted gentoo user who neither uses plaudis nor has any
> complaint with it or its developers.  I also don't use kde, but have
> no complaint with it or its developers.
> 
> I wonder if we could end this plaudis argument, as I don't see how the
> argument can actually help anyone.

Same situation, agree completely.

All those "you're a liar" "no i am not" "you are trolling" "no you are 
trolling" looks a lot like primary school behaviour.

The first kde4 overlay was done paludis only? Fine. It's free software, 
it's an overlay, so anyone was free to do whatever they want. In fact, 
someone ported it to Portage, so now everyone can be happy.

So, why catfighting now?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Monday 15 September 2008 07:27:16 b.n. wrote:
> In fact, someone ported it to Portage, so now everyone can be happy.

You'd think so, but some people won't be happy until Paludis and all its 
developers are banished from the face of the Earth.

> So, why catfighting now?

See above.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Dirk Heinrichs]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 574 bytes --]

Am Montag 15 September 2008 00:40:04 schrieb ext Volker Armin Hemmann:

> so first they attacked someone for asking for it - and then implemented it?
> nice.

Sometimes people change their minds. I guess you never do?

Bye...

	Dirk
-- 
Dirk Heinrichs          | Tel:  +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager   | Fax:  +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland   | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Wanheimerstraße 68      | Web:  http://www.capgemini.com
D-40468 Düsseldorf      | ICQ#: 110037733
GPG Public Key C2E467BB | Keyserver: wwwkeys.pgp.net


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Kent Fredric]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 317 bytes --]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 6:27 PM, b.n. <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> So, why catfighting now?
>
>
Because all the guys here are probably really lesbians trapped in mens
bodies.

:)


-- 
Kent
ruby -e '[1, 2, 4, 7, 0, 9, 5, 8, 3, 10, 11, 6, 12, 13].each{|x|
print "enNOSPicAMreil kdrtf@gma.com"[(2*x)..(2*x+1)]}'

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[gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Nikos Chantziaras]

b.n. wrote:
> Allan Gottlieb ha scritto:
>> I am a delighted gentoo user who neither uses plaudis nor has any
>> complaint with it or its developers.  I also don't use kde, but have
>> no complaint with it or its developers.
>>
>> I wonder if we could end this plaudis argument, as I don't see how the
>> argument can actually help anyone.
> 
> Same situation, agree completely.
> 
> All those "you're a liar" "no i am not" "you are trolling" "no you are 
> trolling" looks a lot like primary school behaviour.
> 
> The first kde4 overlay was done paludis only? Fine. It's free software, 
> it's an overlay, so anyone was free to do whatever they want. In fact, 
> someone ported it to Portage, so now everyone can be happy.
> 
> So, why catfighting now?

Maybe because people don't want Paludis to become the primary Gentoo 
package manager (including myself.)

Now there's a problem here; people who use Paludis think that people who 
don't want it to replace Portage are trying to banish it and its 
developers from the face of the Earth.  They don't realize that there's 
a difference between "we don't want Paludis to replace Portage" and "we 
want to banish Paludis and its developers from the face of the Earth."

Hence, catfighting.  Me, I don't want to banish anyone.  All I want is 
being able to use Gentoo and emerge *all* packages without being 
required to install Paludis.  Paludis should be compatible to Portage, 
*NOT* the other way around.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

2008/9/15 Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de>:
> They don't realize that there's a difference between "we don't want Paludis
> to replace Portage" and "we want to banish Paludis and its developers from
> the face of the Earth."

For some value of "we", yes, there is a difference, and you're
entirely welcome to your opinion.  But based on his history on the
mailing lists and forums, I'm quite sure that our friend Volker is a
member of the latter category, and he's by no means alone.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Monday 15 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 23:44:55 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > after I gave you a link where spb, rbrown, and ciaranm insulted somebody
> > who just asked for a feature...
>
> He did not "just" ask for a feature, he admitted to doing something highly
> stupid and likely to destroy his system.
>
> > How about an apology?
>
> Yes please.
>
> > I said the truth
>
> No you didn't.
>
> > you called me a liar.
>
> If you tell lies, then you are a liar.
>
> > Which is btw trolling and a personal attack.
>
> Not if it's true.

except that the truth is on my side.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Monday 15 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> 2008/9/15 Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de>:
> > They don't realize that there's a difference between "we don't want
> > Paludis to replace Portage" and "we want to banish Paludis and its
> > developers from the face of the Earth."
>
> For some value of "we", yes, there is a difference, and you're
> entirely welcome to your opinion.  But based on his history on the
> mailing lists and forums, I'm quite sure that our friend Volker is a
> member of the latter category, and he's by no means alone.

nope.
I don#t want to destroy paludis.

I just want it to be less of a nuisance.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Monday 15 September 2008 17:07:34 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> nope.
> I don#t want to destroy paludis.
>
> I just want it to be less of a nuisance.

You've made it quite clear that you consider the mere existence of Paludis to 
be a nuisance, so it works out the same in the end.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 15 September 2008 18:05:45 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Monday 15 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:

> > Not if it's true.
>
> except that the truth is on my side.

As somebody with excellent, highly developed trolling and flaming skills (hey, 
I'm a Caucasian male geek, what you expect?) I'd like to point out:

- David has assumed one position
- Volker has assumed the opposite position
- neither is going to give an inch
- most of the rest of us don't care

I'd usually quote a famous quip about arguing on the net and a certain class 
of athlete. BUT that would be very insulting to my country's Paralympic team 
who right now are showing their able-bodied countrymen how competing in sport 
should be done.

Instead I'll just say that both of you are acting like retards, which is 
peculiar because neither of you are retarded.

So gentlemen, why are you pretending to be something you are not?


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Monday 15 September 2008 17:40:59 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Instead I'll just say that both of you are acting like retards

This statement is false.

> which is peculiar because neither of you are retarded.

So is this one.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[BRM]

Ok. So replace 'retards' with 'childish' or whatever you like, but as others have said - that is the case.
Please grow up, agree to disagree, and get on with life - or at least the list do so.

Ben



----- Original Message ----
From: David Leverton <levertond@googlemail.com>
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 12:57:38 PM
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

On Monday 15 September 2008 17:40:59 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Instead I'll just say that both of you are acting like retards

This statement is false.

> which is peculiar because neither of you are retarded.

So is this one.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Monday 15 September 2008 18:03:12 BRM wrote:
> Ok. So replace 'retards' with 'childish' or whatever you like, but as
> others have said - that is the case. Please grow up, agree to disagree, and
> get on with life - or at least the list do so.

I'd be quite happy to disagree.  I'm not at all happy to sit back while he 
incessantly continues to spread his vicious lies in a spiteful attempt to 
undermine and destroy what I've been working hard on for the past 18 months 
or so.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Davi Vidal]

Em Monday 15 September 2008, David Leverton escreveu:
> On Monday 15 September 2008 18:03:12 BRM wrote:
> > Ok. So replace 'retards' with 'childish' or whatever you like, but as
> > others have said - that is the case. Please grow up, agree to disagree,
> > and get on with life - or at least the list do so.
>
> I'd be quite happy to disagree.  I'm not at all happy to sit back while he
> incessantly continues to spread his vicious lies in a spiteful attempt to
> undermine and destroy what I've been working hard on for the past 18 months
> or so.

	If your work is good, you don't need to say it to me.

	I'm an Paludis user, and I'm satisfied. Why are you fighting? Come on... I'll 
pay an McDonalds' Ice Cream to you 2. :-)

	Sorry for my poor English.
-- 
Davi Vidal
--
E-mail: davividal@siscompar.com.br
MSN   : davividal@msn.com
GTalk : davividal@gmail.com
Skype : davi vidal
YIM   : davi_vidal
ICQ   : 138815296

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Monday 15 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> On Monday 15 September 2008 17:07:34 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > nope.
> > I don#t want to destroy paludis.
> >
> > I just want it to be less of a nuisance.
>
> You've made it quite clear that you consider the mere existence of Paludis
> to be a nuisance, so it works out the same in the end.

oh really? did I? Where did I say that?

I didn't.

But hey, you are the one who calls others liar - and when shown proof that it 
was the truth refused to acknowledge that. So - I don't give a shit what you 
say or think. You are nothing but a little paludis troll. Paludis seems to 
attract them - which is one of the nuisances.

So whatever you want to say, tell it your wall. I don't care.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Monday 15 September 2008 18:25:08 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> But hey, you are the one who calls others liar - and when shown proof that
> it was the truth

I'm glad you agree that me calling you a liar was the truth.

> You are nothing but a little paludis troll.

You are nothing but a little anti-Paludis fundamentalist.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Monday 15 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> On Monday 15 September 2008 18:25:08 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > But hey, you are the one who calls others liar - and when shown proof
> > that it was the truth
>
> I'm glad you agree that me calling you a liar was the truth.

oh yeah, twisting words is all that you can do. You are pathetic.

You called me a liar and I showed that I told the truth. You continue 
insulting me. Great work. Really. You must make your follow paludis-fanboys 
very proud.

>
> > You are nothing but a little paludis troll.
>
> You are nothing but a little anti-Paludis fundamentalist.

says the person who insults others who don't agree to join his paludis-is-
great-trip.
Really, if I really need a good argument against paludis I just need to post 
your emails.

Welcome to my spamfilter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Monday 15 September 2008 20:08:06 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> You called me a liar and I showed that I told the truth.

No you didn't, you just continued to lie even after I explained how you were 
wrong.

> You continue insulting me.

You continue lying and spreading FUD.

> says the person who insults others who don't agree to join his paludis-is-
> great-trip.

No, says the person who has seen your and your little friends' nasty obsessive 
jihad.

> Really, if I really need a good argument against paludis I just need to
> post your emails.

Now /that/ is pathetic.

> Welcome to my spamfilter.

Boo hoo hoo.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Davi Vidal]

Em Monday 15 September 2008, David Leverton escreveu:
> On Monday 15 September 2008 20:08:06 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > You called me a liar and I showed that I told the truth.
>
> No you didn't, you just continued to lie even after I explained how you
> were wrong.
>
> > You continue insulting me.
>
> You continue lying and spreading FUD.
>
> > says the person who insults others who don't agree to join his
> > paludis-is- great-trip.
>
> No, says the person who has seen your and your little friends' nasty
> obsessive jihad.
>
> > Really, if I really need a good argument against paludis I just need to
> > post your emails.
>
> Now /that/ is pathetic.
>
> > Welcome to my spamfilter.
>
> Boo hoo hoo.


	Just in case that you've missed the point of the discussion, I'm posting the 
original message.


"In case you've missed it... the latest of the 3.5 version KDE is now in 
portage. It's still keyworded and masked, but still usable.

Compiling it now.


Cheers...

If only 4.1.1 was there... :')

Cheers again..."


	Sorry for my poor English.

	Best regards,
-- 
Davi Vidal
--
E-mail: davividal@siscompar.com.br
MSN   : davividal@msn.com
GTalk : davividal@gmail.com
Skype : davi vidal
YIM   : davi_vidal
ICQ   : 138815296

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Rob Rutherford]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 3:22 PM, David Leverton
<levertond@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Monday 15 September 2008 20:08:06 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>> You called me a liar and I showed that I told the truth.
>
> No you didn't, you just continued to lie even after I explained how you were
> wrong.
>
>> You continue insulting me.
>
> You continue lying and spreading FUD.
>
>> says the person who insults others who don't agree to join his paludis-is-
>> great-trip.
>
> No, says the person who has seen your and your little friends' nasty obsessive
> jihad.
>
>> Really, if I really need a good argument against paludis I just need to
>> post your emails.
>
> Now /that/ is pathetic.
>
>> Welcome to my spamfilter.
>
> Boo hoo hoo.
>
>

This thread is a good argument against Gentoo.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Mariusz Przygodzki]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 9:51 PM, Rob Rutherford <rlrutherford@gmail.com> wrote:
> This thread is a good argument against Gentoo.

Please stop trolling. Please so much.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Monday 15 September 2008 21:19:55 b.n. wrote:
> For $METAPHYSICAL_ENTITY sake, you are arguing like childs and calling
> each other "liar" like 6-years old on two *goddamn pieces of code*.
> Please. This is not anymore fun since the times of Emacs vs Vi.

It's not just code.  He is attacking the motivations and characters of the 
Paludis and genkdesvn developers.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[b.n.]

>> Welcome to my spamfilter.
> 
> Boo hoo hoo.

Now, welcome me to both of your spamfilters, but here's my opinion. You 
both are a couple of morons. :)

For $METAPHYSICAL_ENTITY sake, you are arguing like childs and calling 
each other "liar" like 6-years old on two *goddamn pieces of code*. 
Please. This is not anymore fun since the times of Emacs vs Vi.

Does anyone want to show *real* muscles and show that $MY_SOFTWARE is 
better than $OTHER_SOFTWARE ? Well, shut up and code. You are competing 
on equal playground (free, open source). The best one will come out by 
its own merits.

And now, stop.
Thanks.

m.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[b.n.]

David Leverton ha scritto:
> On Monday 15 September 2008 17:40:59 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> Instead I'll just say that both of you are acting like retards
> 
> This statement is false.
> 
>> which is peculiar because neither of you are retarded.
> 
> So is this one.
> 

This mail actually made my day.
gentoo-user : Lulz, in your mailbox, everyday.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[b.n.]

David Leverton ha scritto:
> On Monday 15 September 2008 21:19:55 b.n. wrote:
>> For $METAPHYSICAL_ENTITY sake, you are arguing like childs and calling
>> each other "liar" like 6-years old on two *goddamn pieces of code*.
>> Please. This is not anymore fun since the times of Emacs vs Vi.
> 
> It's not just code.  He is attacking the motivations and characters of the 
> Paludis and genkdesvn developers.

The best defense of that motivation and characters is not arguing on a 
mailing list.
It's them ignoring him and coding at their best.
It's *facts*.
For you, as for the other guy, as for everyone else involved in such 
discussions.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 554 bytes --]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:57:38 +0100, David Leverton wrote:

> > which is peculiar because neither of you are retarded.  
> 
> So is this one.

What exactly was the point of this mail? People haven't signed up to this
list to receive mails containing nothing but childish insults. Please
respect your fellow list subscribers and take your bickering and name
calling to private mail.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Documentation: (n.) a novel sold with software, designed to entertain the
               operator during episodes of bugs or glitches.

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Monday 15 September 2008 22:25:55 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> What exactly was the point of this mail?

The point was that I was falsely and publically accused of "acting like a 
retard".

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Daniel da Veiga]

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 18:25, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:57:38 +0100, David Leverton wrote:
>
>> > which is peculiar because neither of you are retarded.
>>
>> So is this one.
>
> What exactly was the point of this mail? People haven't signed up to this
> list to receive mails containing nothing but childish insults. Please
> respect your fellow list subscribers and take your bickering and name
> calling to private mail.

Completely and utterly agreed.
This discussion is way more an ego war than anything else, and nothing
that's being posted about paludis lovers or haters is useful for most
of us. In fact, nothing at all, cause no real arguments were
explained, and even if they were, I'm pretty sure people can find
their own answers reading about paludis and portage and decide.

So, please, stop, I did not subscribe to this list to get this kind of
mail. First cause I really don't wanna read insults, and second cause
the whole arguing has nothing to do with the thread subject (cleared
at the 7th post).

-- 
Daniel da Veiga

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Monday 15 September 2008 21:51:50 b.n. wrote:
> The best defense of that motivation and characters is not arguing on a
> mailing list.
> It's them ignoring him and coding at their best.

How would that help?  His arguments are not (primarily) about technical 
quality, they are about Good and Evil.  No matter how good Paludis is 
technically, not matter how much it improves in future, he's convinced that 
it is Evil Incarnate.

[gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[»Q«]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:51:45 -0400
"Rob Rutherford" <rlrutherford@gmail.com> wrote:

> This thread is a good argument against Gentoo.

I don't think it's a *good* argument, but it's a compelling one.  Maybe
a gentoo-paludis-wars list would be a good place to house these threads
so the noise is more easily ignored.

-- 
»Q«
     Kleeneness is next to Gödelness.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[b.n.]

David Leverton ha scritto:
> On Monday 15 September 2008 21:51:50 b.n. wrote:
>> The best defense of that motivation and characters is not arguing on a
>> mailing list.
>> It's them ignoring him and coding at their best.
> 
> How would that help?  His arguments are not (primarily) about technical 
> quality, they are about Good and Evil.  No matter how good Paludis is 
> technically, not matter how much it improves in future, he's convinced that 
> it is Evil Incarnate.

If it's so, what's the point of bitching with him? You won't change his 
mind. So, you're again just wasting bytes.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:41:14 +0100, David Leverton wrote:

> > What exactly was the point of this mail?  
> 
> The point was that I was falsely and publically accused of "acting like
> a retard".

That was the trigger, not the point. This thread long since ceased to
have any point. All you are achieving is to discourage people from trying
Paludis if this is the kind of hassle associated with it.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Where do you think you're going today?

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[gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Nikos Chantziaras]

»Q« wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:51:45 -0400
> "Rob Rutherford" <rlrutherford@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> This thread is a good argument against Gentoo.
> 
> I don't think it's a *good* argument, but it's a compelling one.  [...]

Heh, tried the Debian lists yet?  ;)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Norberto Bensa]

Quoting Rob Rutherford <rlrutherford@gmail.com>:

>
> This thread is a good argument against Gentoo.
>

I tend to ignore long threads. The bitches will always degenerate into  
this :-/



Regards,
Norberto


----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

[gentoo-user] everyone, please, stop feeding the trolls.

[Iain Buchanan]

-- 
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

"BTW, does Jesus know you flame?"
-- Diane Holt, dianeh@binky.UUCP, to Ed Carp

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 00:11:40 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> That was the trigger, not the point. This thread long since ceased to
> have any point. All you are achieving is to discourage people from trying
> Paludis if this is the kind of hassle associated with it.

My reponses to Volker are certainly not associated with him trying Paludis.  
They are associated with his vile and persistent hate campaign against it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 00:11:30 b.n. wrote:
> If it's so, what's the point of bitching with him? You won't change his
> mind. So, you're again just wasting bytes.

Because people might believe him if he is allowed to go unchallenged.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[cuciferus]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 03:19:11 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> »Q« wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:51:45 -0400
> >
> > "Rob Rutherford" <rlrutherford@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> This thread is a good argument against Gentoo.
> >
> > I don't think it's a *good* argument, but it's a compelling one.  [...]
>
> Heh, tried the Debian lists yet?  ;)
While the "gentoo is dead" routine was a little old and kde vs gnome is sooooo 
yesterday, I guess this paludis vs emerge thing is a little fresh. but could 
you perhaps be more aggressive? and get the oil while you're at it: let's see 
some real catfight.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Kent Fredric]

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On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 6:25 PM, <cuciferus@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 03:19:11 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > »Q« wrote:
> > > On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:51:45 -0400
> > >
> > > "Rob Rutherford" <rlrutherford@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> This thread is a good argument against Gentoo.
> > >
> > > I don't think it's a *good* argument, but it's a compelling one.  [...]
> >
> > Heh, tried the Debian lists yet?  ;)
> While the "gentoo is dead" routine was a little old and kde vs gnome is
> sooooo
> yesterday, I guess this paludis vs emerge thing is a little fresh. but
> could
> you perhaps be more aggressive? and get the oil while you're at it: let's
> see
> some real catfight.
>
>
I miss emacs vs VI. because obviously, VI is way better and i like seeing
emacs people try to put it down.

( the above was written in sarcasm, please take this as my  way of stating
this discussion is moot and could you please just realize people have their
differences of opinion  and you can't convert a convert , and talking to
everyone else is preaching to the choir. )



-- 
Kent
ruby -e '[1, 2, 4, 7, 0, 9, 5, 8, 3, 10, 11, 6, 12, 13].each{|x|
print "enNOSPicAMreil kdrtf@gma.com"[(2*x)..(2*x+1)]}'

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:34:52 +0100, David Leverton wrote:

> > That was the trigger, not the point. This thread long since ceased to
> > have any point. All you are achieving is to discourage people from
> > trying Paludis if this is the kind of hassle associated with it.  
> 
> My reponses to Volker are certainly not associated with him trying
> Paludis.

I didn't say they were.You're never going to convince Volker, but you may
well have succeeded in discouraging others from try Paludis.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter.

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Sunday 14 September 2008 22:37:21 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > > Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake.
> >
> > It's not "paludis-only", it will work with any package manager whose
> > developers care enough to support the useful features of the kdebuild-1
> > EAPI.
>
> and that was an official api? Yes? No?

Official according to whom? It is a stable and well documented eapi that any 
package manager that regards those features to be useful can implement.

> Was it needed? No - proven by kdesvn-portage

And noone ever claimed otherwise.

[...]
> > The KDE overlay isn't produced by the "paludis-group".
>
> no, it was just made by vivid paludis fans. Hey, lets make an overlay a lot
> of user want - and make it paludis only. That way we can push paludis!

Wow. What do you base this nonsense on?

> > No, to provide ebuilds that make use of useful features that benefit both
> > users and developers.
>
> which one? Which features 'benefit both users and developers' and are sooo
> important that the kde overlay had to be paludis only?
>
> Name them please.

- '-scm' support (--dl-reinstall-scm for users)
- use dependencies (no surprising interruptions mid-merge)
- suggestions (you see them upfront rather than in elog messages afterwards)
- sets

The latter of these is not subject to eapi but incredibly useful when dealing 
with huge amounts of packages. It obsoletes meta packages and makes 
reinstalls or uninstalls of all packages in the sets trivial. For Paludis it 
also means that you can unmask/keyword two hundred packages just by addding 
the sets to your packages.{keywords,unmask} equivalents. Both Paludis and 
Portage 2.2 now has sets support although the details of their 
implementations vary greatly.

> Oh, does paludis support and equivalent to 'keep-going' or
> '--ignore-failures' or are people who wants this extremly usefull features
> still attacked and insulted?

Paludis had --continue-on-failure long before --keep-going was implemented in 
Portage (which is months after the creation of the kdebuild overlay). This is 
also one of the advantages that users of live KDE ebuilds got by using 
Paludis (or get if you consider the additional flexibility when compared 
to --keep-going to be useful).

On Monday 15 September 2008 00:38:18 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> lets see - an overlay is setup to develop and test ebuilds for KDE4 that
> should some day go into the tree.
>
> Deciding to use a feature that the official pm does not provide - and only
> one of the three makes the 'testing' part and 'for the tree' pretty
> superfluos.

And again I wonder what you base this nonsense on. Perhaps you never ever 
bothered to look at this overlay, what it provides or what the intentions 
behind it was?

As one of the original decision makers behind it I can tell you, that we never 
intended to put any of these ebuilds in the tree. For this reason it also 
never contained any release of KDE. Releases were maintained separately in 
the tree using eapi 1. It only contains live ebuilds. Which is where '-scm' 
and sets support provide the biggest advantages.

And we didn't do it to harass users. We did it because we wanted to get some 
real world experience with some of the features that Paludis had provided for 
years yet there were no indications Portage would support any time soon. Live 
KDE packages was deemed the place where adding this requirement made the most 
sense. Managing two hundred packages without those features is pain anyway.

We decided that the monthly KDE releases that we were packaging and adding to 
the main tree using eapi 1 were frequent enough for those who didn't want 
Paludis for whatever reason. If anybody disagreed with that they could 
maintain their own overlay (which they did/do). We also announced it over 
three weeks before we actually made it happen so anybody who cared about the 
live KDE ebuilds can't really complaim about having been caught by surprise.

-- 
Bo Andresen

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

2008/9/16 Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk>:
> I didn't say they were.You're never going to convince Volker, but you may
> well have succeeded in discouraging others from try Paludis.

On what grounds?  "The Paludis developers don't like being lied about,
therefore I won't use Paludis"?  I don't think the sort of person who
would use that logic (presumably someone who intends to lie about the
developers of his package manager) is the kind of person we want as a
user anyway.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 21:42:09 David Leverton wrote:
> 2008/9/16 Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk>:
> > I didn't say they were.You're never going to convince Volker, but you may
> > well have succeeded in discouraging others from try Paludis.
>
> On what grounds?  "The Paludis developers don't like being lied about,
> therefore I won't use Paludis"?  I don't think the sort of person who
> would use that logic (presumably someone who intends to lie about the
> developers of his package manager) is the kind of person we want as a
> user anyway.

That is not for you to decide. The user - ANY user - is free to decide what 
software they want to run and under what conditions, free from irrelevant 
judgements of "suitability" from self-appointed arbiters of <whatever>.



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:42:09 +0100, David Leverton wrote:

> > I didn't say they were.You're never going to convince Volker, but you
> > may well have succeeded in discouraging others from try Paludis.   
> 
> On what grounds?  "The Paludis developers don't like being lied about,
> therefore I won't use Paludis"?

Because you attitude was abrasive and antagonistic. Remember, you may
have been responding to one person, but you were sending your mail to
everyone. Read Bo's response for an example of a way to make the point
far more clearly in a single, reasoned email with no ad hominem attacks.

> I don't think the sort of person who
> would use that logic (presumably someone who intends to lie about the
> developers of his package manager) is the kind of person we want as a
> user anyway.

I rest my case.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

ABORT: Drivel filter is compromised!

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[cuciferus]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 21:04:11 Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 22:37:21 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > > > Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake.
> > >
> > > It's not "paludis-only", it will work with any package manager whose
> > > developers care enough to support the useful features of the kdebuild-1
> > > EAPI.
> >
> > and that was an official api? Yes? No?
>
> Official according to whom? It is a stable and well documented eapi that
> any package manager that regards those features to be useful can implement.
>
> > Was it needed? No - proven by kdesvn-portage
>
> And noone ever claimed otherwise.
>
> [...]
>
> > > The KDE overlay isn't produced by the "paludis-group".
> >
> > no, it was just made by vivid paludis fans. Hey, lets make an overlay a
> > lot of user want - and make it paludis only. That way we can push
> > paludis!
>
> Wow. What do you base this nonsense on?
>
> > > No, to provide ebuilds that make use of useful features that benefit
> > > both users and developers.
> >
> > which one? Which features 'benefit both users and developers' and are
> > sooo important that the kde overlay had to be paludis only?
> >
> > Name them please.
>
> - '-scm' support (--dl-reinstall-scm for users)
> - use dependencies (no surprising interruptions mid-merge)
> - suggestions (you see them upfront rather than in elog messages
> afterwards) - sets
>
> The latter of these is not subject to eapi but incredibly useful when
> dealing with huge amounts of packages. It obsoletes meta packages and makes
> reinstalls or uninstalls of all packages in the sets trivial. For Paludis
> it also means that you can unmask/keyword two hundred packages just by
> addding the sets to your packages.{keywords,unmask} equivalents. Both
> Paludis and Portage 2.2 now has sets support although the details of their
> implementations vary greatly.
>
> > Oh, does paludis support and equivalent to 'keep-going' or
> > '--ignore-failures' or are people who wants this extremly usefull
> > features still attacked and insulted?
>
> Paludis had --continue-on-failure long before --keep-going was implemented
> in Portage (which is months after the creation of the kdebuild overlay).
> This is also one of the advantages that users of live KDE ebuilds got by
> using Paludis (or get if you consider the additional flexibility when
> compared to --keep-going to be useful).
>
> On Monday 15 September 2008 00:38:18 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > lets see - an overlay is setup to develop and test ebuilds for KDE4 that
> > should some day go into the tree.
> >
> > Deciding to use a feature that the official pm does not provide - and
> > only one of the three makes the 'testing' part and 'for the tree' pretty
> > superfluos.
>
> And again I wonder what you base this nonsense on. Perhaps you never ever
> bothered to look at this overlay, what it provides or what the intentions
> behind it was?
>
> As one of the original decision makers behind it I can tell you, that we
> never intended to put any of these ebuilds in the tree. For this reason it
> also never contained any release of KDE. Releases were maintained
> separately in the tree using eapi 1. It only contains live ebuilds. Which
> is where '-scm' and sets support provide the biggest advantages.
>
> And we didn't do it to harass users. We did it because we wanted to get
> some real world experience with some of the features that Paludis had
> provided for years yet there were no indications Portage would support any
> time soon. Live KDE packages was deemed the place where adding this
> requirement made the most sense. Managing two hundred packages without
> those features is pain anyway.
>
> We decided that the monthly KDE releases that we were packaging and adding
> to the main tree using eapi 1 were frequent enough for those who didn't
> want Paludis for whatever reason. If anybody disagreed with that they could
> maintain their own overlay (which they did/do). We also announced it over
> three weeks before we actually made it happen so anybody who cared about
> the live KDE ebuilds can't really complaim about having been caught by
> surprise.
Actually on that I can rely. I've been using the kde-svn back when it was 
portage "allowed", and I must say it has been an improvement switching to 
paludis. As a user I find --continue-on-failure much better and flexible than 
--skip-first and on a "live" scm tree as this overlay has it is much needed.( 
I don't know about --keep-going since it has been implemented only after I've 
switched to paludis). I like paludis and it's my choise to use it. To each his 
own. 
Also don't flatter your selves I wouldn't(would) use a package just because 
some dev said something about some other dev, or discard(like) it because some 
conversation on IRC. I know what is right for me. So keep using 
emerge/gnome/bsd whatever fits you and let's ALL continue with our lives!

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 20:51:43 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> That is not for you to decide. The user - ANY user - is free to decide what
> software they want to run and under what conditions, free from irrelevant
> judgements of "suitability" from self-appointed arbiters of <whatever>.

Well, yes, I'm just saying that there are certain kinds of people who won't 
cause any tears on our behalf if they decide not to use Paludis.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 20:54:43 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:42:09 +0100, David Leverton wrote:
> > > I didn't say they were.You're never going to convince Volker, but you
> > > may well have succeeded in discouraging others from try Paludis.
> >
> > On what grounds?
>
> Because you attitude was abrasive and antagonistic.

I trust these people won't be using Linux either, then?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:14:47 b.n. wrote:
> Frankly, the more you challenge him this mindless way, the more I
> believe him.

If you think in such backwards logic then I don't care who you believe.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:15:38 +0100, David Leverton wrote:

> > Because your attitude was abrasive and antagonistic.  
> 
> I trust these people won't be using Linux either, then?

Manners and respect are OS-agnostic.

How you say something can be more influential than what you say.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Quark! Quark! Beware the quantum duck!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[b.n.]

David Leverton ha scritto:
> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 00:11:30 b.n. wrote:
>> If it's so, what's the point of bitching with him? You won't change his
>> mind. So, you're again just wasting bytes.
> 
> Because people might believe him if he is allowed to go unchallenged.
> 

Frankly, the more you challenge him this mindless way, the more I 
believe him.
The only thing saving you is that your opponent is not much better, so 
basically you both are on par.

You see, people doesn't give a s**t anymore about your *arguments*, if 
you convey them by catfighting like two misbehaved children. Why don't 
you write some thorough, well thought post on a blog (*avoiding* name 
calling the other, but just *bringing arguments*): this could let you 
advance your position.

And again, get a life. It's just source code, a package manager and 
whatever. You are arguing on a tiny, tiny, tiny spot of the universe. 
There are much worse things on which to get angry. Grow up.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:13:01 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:15:38 +0100, David Leverton wrote:
> > > Because your attitude was abrasive and antagonistic.
> >
> > I trust these people won't be using Linux either, then?
>
> Manners and respect are OS-agnostic.

Completely not the point.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Allan Gottlieb]

At Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:33:27 +0100 David Leverton <levertond@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:13:01 Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:15:38 +0100, David Leverton wrote:
>> > > Because your attitude was abrasive and antagonistic.
>> >
>> > I trust these people won't be using Linux either, then?
>>
>> Manners and respect are OS-agnostic.
>
> Completely not the point.

Yes, Linus and others are pretty tough in the kernel mailing list.

However

1.  You are not linus.

2.  That list is not intended for users, but for developers.

3.  You are not linus.

allan

[gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[»Q«]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:05:22 +0100
David Leverton <levertond@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:14:47 b.n. wrote:
> > Frankly, the more you challenge him this mindless way, the more I
> > believe him.  
> 
> If you think in such backwards logic then I don't care who you
> believe.

It's not "backwards logic".  The choice to use the list for flame wars
makes anyone who does it seem malicious, not just you.

-- 
»Q«
     Kleeneness is next to Gödelness.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:39:12 Allan Gottlieb wrote:
> 1.  You are not linus.

"It's OK for people I like to do this, but not people I don't like"?

> 2.  That list is not intended for users, but for developers.

Not even slightly relevant.

> 3.  You are not linus.

See above.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:18:42 b.n. wrote:
> I am not going to do it because of the treatment I'd be reserved by people
> like ciaranm, or you, if I only needed help or disagreed with your opinions.

What on Earth makes you think that?  Volker is certainly not asking for help, 
and he is not merely "disagreeing", but preaching his gospel of lies at every 
conceivable opportunity.  If you don't do that (which is surely wise in any 
case) you won't receive the corresponding response.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:47:49 »Q« wrote:
> It's not "backwards logic".

"The Paludis developer posts evidence that the liar is lying, therefore I'm 
going to believe the liar" is entirely backwards.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[b.n.]

David Leverton ha scritto:
> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:14:47 b.n. wrote:
>> Frankly, the more you challenge him this mindless way, the more I
>> believe him.
> 
> If you think in such backwards logic then I don't care who you believe.
> 

It's not backwards logic.

The important words are "this mindless way". If you were challenging him 
  quietly and thoroughly, *maybe* someone could have given credit to 
your arguments.

As someone said, there is no worse thing you can do a cause, than 
defending it with the wrong arguments.

Bitching and arriving to a children-in-the-school behaviour is the worst 
thing you can do to your cause. Before I thought paludis was an 
interesting package manager. Now I think it is an interesting package 
manager with an *awful* community behind, and even if I am curious to 
try it, I am not going to do it because of the treatment I'd be reserved 
by people like ciaranm, or you, if I only needed help or disagreed with 
your opinions.

Of course you can say "I don't care of you and people like you". But, 
hey, this means no one cares about you too.

Don't know who wins in such cases, but I have the feeling it is not you.


m.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[b.n.]

Neil Bothwick ha scritto:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:34:52 +0100, David Leverton wrote:
> 
>>> That was the trigger, not the point. This thread long since ceased to
>>> have any point. All you are achieving is to discourage people from
>>> trying Paludis if this is the kind of hassle associated with it.  
>> My reponses to Volker are certainly not associated with him trying
>> Paludis.
> 
> I didn't say they were.You're never going to convince Volker, but you may
> well have succeeded in discouraging others from try Paludis.
> 

He did. See my answer below.

m.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Mark Shields]

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On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 6:13 PM, David Leverton <levertond@googlemail.com>wrote:

> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:47:49 »Q« wrote:
> > It's not "backwards logic".
>
> "The Paludis developer posts evidence that the liar is lying, therefore I'm
> going to believe the liar" is entirely backwards.
>
>
What's Paludis?
Just kidding.  Never used it, I'm happy with portage.

-- 
- Mark Shields

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:53:20 b.n. wrote:
> David Leverton ha scritto:
> > On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:18:42 b.n. wrote:
> >> I am not going to do it because of the treatment I'd be reserved by
> >> people like ciaranm, or you, if I only needed help or disagreed with
> >> your opinions.
> >
> > What on Earth makes you think that?
>
> Your behaviour.

Towards people who only need help or disagree (rationally) with my opinions?  
Such as?

> The IRC log posted on the r0bertz blog.

Don't do something so draw-droppingly idiotic if you don't want to receive the 
appropriate reaction.

> This is paranoid behaviour.
> To think that there is a "hate campaign" about your little software is
> utterly paranoid.

It's not paranoid, it's true.  I've seen it.

> Actually, I'm pretty sure >99.999% of world population just doesn't care
> about your software. :) 

Perhaps, but some of the people who do care care in a rather malicious way.

> Moreover, as I told you some time ago, the only way to shut up lies is
> *facts*. In software, facts means code.

As I told you some time ago, these people don't care about code.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[b.n.]

David Leverton ha scritto:
> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:18:42 b.n. wrote:
>> I am not going to do it because of the treatment I'd be reserved by people
>> like ciaranm, or you, if I only needed help or disagreed with your opinions.
> 
> What on Earth makes you think that? 

Your behaviour.
The IRC log posted on the r0bertz blog.

Just two examples.

> Volker is certainly not asking for help, 
> and he is not merely "disagreeing", but preaching his gospel of lies at every 
> conceivable opportunity.  If you don't do that (which is surely wise in any 
> case) you won't receive the corresponding response.

This is paranoid behaviour.
To think that there is a "hate campaign" about your little software is 
utterly paranoid. You are not Linux, no Microsoft is doing a "get the 
facts" campaign on you. Actually, I'm pretty sure >99.999% of world 
population just doesn't care about your software. :)

That said, I don't agree with everything Volker says (frankly I saw no 
problem at all with a paludis-only overlay, and I said that before, and 
I don't think there is a "paludis conspiracy" just like I don't think 
there is an "anti-paludis conspiracy"), and Volker's tone was not better 
than yours.

But I'm sure that he talks this way because he's actually concerned 
about your software and the behaviour of your community. And reading 
stuff like the IRC logs of ciaranm (and you defending his behaviour) I 
can't but agree.

None of you was constructive in the discussion. For example, a 
sub-thread went this way: Volker said Paludis is bloated. You answered 
"no it's not". He said "yes it is" and then it became a sensless 
blah-blah "liar-liar". Why don't you just go at your desks, count lines 
of code/features/memory consuption/executable size/whatever fits your 
measures of "bloated" and decide numerically what's bloated or not?

Moreover, as I told you some time ago, the only way to shut up lies is 
*facts*. In software, facts means code. You can take it as, think, a 
contest. He says Paludis is bloated? Let's compare them, and, in the 
meantime, let's aggressively reduce memory consumption! Let's modularize 
it (if it's not already), so everyone can have his pet features without 
complaining. If it's already modular, let's write the appropriate plugin 
and tell him "see how easy it was?". Et cetera. When you will have huge, 
undeniable facts on your side, you won't need to fear any "conspiracy". 
And if someone still denies them, well, let's make those facts even 
huger and more solid -that is, go and code again.

That way you not only will win your flamewars with more arguments, but 
make the life of users better.

m.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Wednesday 17 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:47:49 »Q« wrote:
> > It's not "backwards logic".
>
> "The Paludis developer posts evidence that the liar is lying, therefore I'm
> going to believe the liar" is entirely backwards.

since you can't stop and fill up may spam box:

I provided evidence. You didn't. You have provided nothing. You attacked me. 
And you continued to attack me all day long. That says a lot about you.

That is the last thing I will post in this thread or as an answer to you. So 
be happy.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:10:26 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> I provided evidence.

You provided lies.

> You attacked me.

I defended my project against your attacks.

> That is the last thing I will post in this thread or as an answer to you.

A likely story.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:27:54 b.n. wrote:
> If he *knew* it was idiotic, he *would not* have done it, isn't it?

That's his problem.

> Until I will see anti-paludis campaigns in the streets, sorry, it's just
> paranoia.

That seems like a rather arbitrary restriction.  As you said, most people in 
the world don't care about anything Gentoo-related, so campaigning in the 
streets seems rather unlikely, but that's no excuse for spreading lies 
amongst the subset of people who do care.

> And, sir, what would the aim of those people be? What advantage they
> have from maliciously and viciously crushing Paludis? Will they become
> richer? More powerful? Or it's for the women?

My theory is that they're scared.  Or it could just be because they enjoy 
hurting other people.

> And you are not doing that. Trying to win on Volker, you are losing with
> everyone else.

Only the irrational ones.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[b.n.]

David Leverton ha scritto:
> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:53:20 b.n. wrote:
>> David Leverton ha scritto:
>>> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:18:42 b.n. wrote:
>>>> I am not going to do it because of the treatment I'd be reserved by
>>>> people like ciaranm, or you, if I only needed help or disagreed with
>>>> your opinions.
>>> What on Earth makes you think that?
>> Your behaviour.
> 
> Towards people who only need help or disagree (rationally) with my opinions?  
> Such as?
> 
>> The IRC log posted on the r0bertz blog.
> 
> Don't do something so draw-droppingly idiotic if you don't want to receive the 
> appropriate reaction.

The reaction is not appropriate.
The behaviour could be due to simple ignorance, instead of idiocy.
If he *knew* it was idiotic, he *would not* have done it, isn't it?
Or didn't you think about that?
Are maybe you -God forbid!- an idiot too? :)

In any case, even if r0bertz is a clueless idiot, the only sane approach 
is even in this case to calmly and rationally explain (or providing 
links to information) why what he was doing was, in your opinion, wrong.

That's for example what I am doing with you, even if you are quite 
jaw-droppingly too, outside a system administration context.

You see: it's called "Dealing With People". It's a different software 
from Portage or Paludis, but you should try it nonetheless.

>> This is paranoid behaviour.
>> To think that there is a "hate campaign" about your little software is
>> utterly paranoid.
> 
> It's not paranoid, it's true.  I've seen it.

Pretty unfortunately, that's what every paranoid would say.

Until I will see anti-paludis campaigns in the streets, sorry, it's just 
paranoia. You see people disagreeing (very wholeheartedly) with you, and 
instead of accepting that, you build the delusion of a conspiracy.

It's a well known, quite common psychological mechanism.

Of course you are free to give me the URLs of angry anti-paludis 
websites, the menacing private mails you received, etc. and convince me 
I am wrong.

>> Actually, I'm pretty sure >99.999% of world population just doesn't care
>> about your software. :) 
> 
> Perhaps, but some of the people who do care care in a rather malicious way.

And, sir, what would the aim of those people be? What advantage they 
have from maliciously and viciously crushing Paludis? Will they become 
richer? More powerful? Or it's for the women?

You see, you happily give "idiocy" tags to people, yet you seem to 
believe things that have no rational justification at all. Maybe you 
should think twice.

>> Moreover, as I told you some time ago, the only way to shut up lies is
>> *facts*. In software, facts means code.
> 
> As I told you some time ago, these people don't care about code.

They care about code, and they care about your public behaviour. Even if 
they spread lies about your code because they want the Crystal Skull 
from the Paludis Shrine, well, you do not have to convince them.

You have to convince everyone else.

And you are not doing that. Trying to win on Volker, you are losing with 
everyone else.
But at this point I don't think you will understand that -you're too 
busy not being an "idiot" when talking about package management, yet 
being somehow not as clever when dealing with human beings.

m.

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Allan Gottlieb]

At Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:47:57 +0100 David Leverton <levertond@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:39:12 Allan Gottlieb wrote:
>> 1.  You are not linus.
>
> "It's OK for people I like to do this, but not people I don't like"?

Rather, "It is less objectionable for people who have accomplished a
very great deal and have greatly improved the computing environment
for the members of the corresponding mailing list".  "Like" would not
apply as I don't know either linus or the members of this mailing
list.

>> 2.  That list is not intended for users, but for developers.
>
> Not even slightly relevant.

Why?  I would think plaudis and/or kde developers would be more
interested in the decision of why plaudis was chosen than would
users.  However, I must admit that neither users nor developers are
likely to be interested in comments made in the tone of some of the
previous ones on this mailing list.

allan

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[b.n.]

David Leverton ha scritto:
> On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:27:54 b.n. wrote:
>> If he *knew* it was idiotic, he *would not* have done it, isn't it?
> 
> That's his problem.

No, that's *your* problem now, because you and your accolites now look 
like a bunch of arrogant a**holes, instead of helpful people.

You did a wonderfully awful PR job.

If your aim is Paludis success or even thriving, you are failing in one 
of the most ridicolous ways possible.
(And if your aim is not Paludis success, why do you care about people 
spreading "lies" on that project?)

>> Until I will see anti-paludis campaigns in the streets, sorry, it's just
>> paranoia.
> 
> That seems like a rather arbitrary restriction.  As you said, most people in 
> the world don't care about anything Gentoo-related, so campaigning in the 
> streets seems rather unlikely, 

That was of course an hyperbole.

I asked instead seriously for facts about such "campaign". URLs of 
websites dedicated against Paludis, menacing mails, personal attacks, 
whatever. I am still waiting for evidence of this mysterious conspiracy.

> but that's no excuse for spreading lies 
> amongst the subset of people who do care.

I will believe these are lies when I will see facts backing your 
assertions. Until that, I am neutral on both sides.

>> And, sir, what would the aim of those people be? What advantage they
>> have from maliciously and viciously crushing Paludis? Will they become
>> richer? More powerful? Or it's for the women?
> 
> My theory is that they're scared.  Or it could just be because they enjoy 
> hurting other people.

Scared of what? Of you? My theory is that you have no clue: and that's 
obvious, since you can't rationalize fully what is simply a reassuring 
delusion.

>> And you are not doing that. Trying to win on Volker, you are losing with
>> everyone else.
> 
> Only the irrational ones.

And if you care only about rational ones, well:
- if these are lies, rational people will look at facts for themselves 
and will stay on the rational side. So why caring at Volker's lies?
- irrational people will believe to lies, but you don't care of 
irrational people, so, why bothering again?

So, how is you are rational?

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Kent Fredric]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 528 bytes --]

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 9:39 AM, Allan Gottlieb <gottlieb@nyu.edu> wrote:

> 2.  That list is not intended for users, but for developers.
>
>
Hrm. I thought this was gentoo-user , which I thought was one of many places
(gentoo-user)'s can ask for help on various subjects.

'gentoo-user |  General Gentoo user support and discussion mailing list' [1]



[1] http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml

-- 
Kent
ruby -e '[1, 2, 4, 7, 0, 9, 5, 8, 3, 10, 11, 6, 12, 13].each{|x|
print "enNOSPicAMreil kdrtf@gma.com"[(2*x)..(2*x+1)]}'

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Kent Fredric]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 400 bytes --]

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Kent Fredric <kentfredric@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
Oh wait, my confusion. You were possibly referring explicitly to whom should
and should not be on the linux dev ml.

( If otherwise, please do unset my fail bit i just assigned on myself )
-- 
Kent
ruby -e '[1, 2, 4, 7, 0, 9, 5, 8, 3, 10, 11, 6, 12, 13].each{|x|
print "enNOSPicAMreil kdrtf@gma.com"[(2*x)..(2*x+1)]}'

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 795 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Wednesday 17 September 2008 01:16:06 b.n. wrote:
> No, that's *your* problem now, because you and your accolites now look
> like a bunch of arrogant a**holes, instead of helpful people.

If that helps drive away idiots, then fine.  Non-idiots won't use that as a 
reason to use or not to use the software.

> I asked instead seriously for facts about such "campaign". URLs of
> websites dedicated against Paludis, menacing mails, personal attacks,
> whatever. I am still waiting for evidence of this mysterious conspiracy.

For personal attacks, see anything written by Volker and his buddies about 
Paludis on the mailing lists or forums.  There is at least one website, but 
posting it will only encourage them.

> Scared of what?

Scared that people might want to use Paludis instead of their precious Portage 
or Pkgcore.

> - if these are lies, rational people will look at facts for themselves
> and will stay on the rational side. So why caring at Volker's lies?

Because allowing him to viciously attack us over, and over, and over, and 
over, and over again is not acceptable.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Kent Fredric]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1036 bytes --]

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 9:05 AM, David Leverton <levertond@googlemail.com>wrote:

> On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:14:47 b.n. wrote:
> > Frankly, the more you challenge him this mindless way, the more I
> > believe him.
>
> If you think in such backwards logic then I don't care who you believe.
>
>
A apologize in advance if this assessment may  be under/over stating
something, I've not really taken part of this discussion, and don't really
care of what the outcome is, I'll keep using my ${choice}, if ${choice} goes
away ill go back and fork ${choice} to bring it back.  But you do appear to
be going out of your way to cause unwanted flame wars.  ( I'm being the
ultra fool by joining in the fray here ).

It would be nice if this bonfire could settle, and I'll request so by
mocking myself and all amateur geekdom at once with
"liek, omg gaiz. chi11!!!!"

Cheers.

Can we all kiss and make up now?

-- 
Kent
ruby -e '[1, 2, 4, 7, 0, 9, 5, 8, 3, 10, 11, 6, 12, 13].each{|x|
print "enNOSPicAMreil kdrtf@gma.com"[(2*x)..(2*x+1)]}'

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:50:42 Allan Gottlieb wrote:
> Rather, "It is less objectionable for people who have accomplished a
> very great deal and have greatly improved the computing environment
> for the members of the corresponding mailing list".  "Like" would not
> apply as I don't know either linus or the members of this mailing
> list.

Ah, so it's hero-worship, then?  "Linus can be obnoxious, but it's OK because 
he's soooooooooo cool"?

> >> 2.  That list is not intended for users, but for developers.
> >
> > Not even slightly relevant.
>
> Why?

Because you say people will avoid software because they don't like its 
developers.  Nothing to do with any mailing list.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm

[Dale]

David Leverton wrote:
>
>
> Because allowing him to viciously attack us over, and over, and over, and 
> over, and over again is not acceptable.
>
>
>   

I have been trying to bite my tongue but I have to ask this.  Is what 
you are doing any better?  It's not something I want a answer to either 
because to be honest, I don't care who is lying and who is not.  I don't 
care if any other package manager is better or not either.  I would just 
like to see the mud slinging stop.

Please.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Allan Gottlieb]

At Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:33:11 +0100 David Leverton <levertond@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:50:42 Allan Gottlieb wrote:
>> Rather, "It is less objectionable for people who have accomplished a
>> very great deal and have greatly improved the computing environment
>> for the members of the corresponding mailing list".  "Like" would not
>> apply as I don't know either linus or the members of this mailing
>> list.
>
> Ah, so it's hero-worship, then?  "Linus can be obnoxious, but it's OK because 
> he's soooooooooo cool"?

You are changing words.  I said "less objectionable" you summarized it
as OK.  You can use the term hero-worship if you choose, but it only
approximates what I said.  But I do agree that it is true that those
who accomplish a lot are given greater latitude.

>> >> 2.  That list is not intended for users, but for developers.
>> >
>> > Not even slightly relevant.
>>
>> Why?
>
> Because you say people will avoid software because they don't like its 
> developers.

I never said any such thing.  You are confusing my posts with someone else's.

allan

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Allan Gottlieb]

At Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:24:04 +1200 Kent Fredric <kentfredric@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Kent Fredric <kentfredric@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
> Oh wait, my confusion. You were possibly referring explicitly to whom should
> and should not be on the linux dev ml.
>
> ( If otherwise, please do unset my fail bit i just assigned on myself )

Yes, you misread my post.  I said "that list" when I had just
discussed the kernel list.

allan gottlieb

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Alan McKinnon]

Mr Leverton:

Please be advised that I have initiated a formal process requesting to have 
you banned from this list by userrel@gentoo.org.

This is after many requests from others for you to calm down on the list, and 
two private mails from myself asking the same, both of which you have not 
answered.





On Wednesday 17 September 2008 14:06:51 Allan Gottlieb wrote:
> At Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:33:11 +0100 David Leverton <levertond@googlemail.com> 
wrote:
> > On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:50:42 Allan Gottlieb wrote:
> >> Rather, "It is less objectionable for people who have accomplished a
> >> very great deal and have greatly improved the computing environment
> >> for the members of the corresponding mailing list".  "Like" would not
> >> apply as I don't know either linus or the members of this mailing
> >> list.
> >
> > Ah, so it's hero-worship, then?  "Linus can be obnoxious, but it's OK
> > because he's soooooooooo cool"?
>
> You are changing words.  I said "less objectionable" you summarized it
> as OK.  You can use the term hero-worship if you choose, but it only
> approximates what I said.  But I do agree that it is true that those
> who accomplish a lot are given greater latitude.
>
> >> >> 2.  That list is not intended for users, but for developers.
> >> >
> >> > Not even slightly relevant.
> >>
> >> Why?
> >
> > Because you say people will avoid software because they don't like its
> > developers.
>
> I never said any such thing.  You are confusing my posts with someone
> else's.
>
> allan



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[BRM]

Also remember this - Linus has a list devoted solely to _his_ project, which _he_ administers; therefore, he can pretty much say what he wants on that devoted list where for all intents and purposes _he is king_.

Unlike this list which is not devoted to paladius or portage, or anything else other than general Gentoo support for general users.

So scopes vary, ownership varies, and latitude varies greatly too.

Ben



----- Original Message ----
From: Allan Gottlieb <gottlieb@nyu.edu>
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 8:06:51 AM
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

At Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:33:11 +0100 David Leverton <levertond@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:50:42 Allan Gottlieb wrote:
>> Rather, "It is less objectionable for people who have accomplished a
>> very great deal and have greatly improved the computing environment
>> for the members of the corresponding mailing list".  "Like" would not
>> apply as I don't know either linus or the members of this mailing
>> list.
>
> Ah, so it's hero-worship, then?  "Linus can be obnoxious, but it's OK because 
> he's soooooooooo cool"?

You are changing words.  I said "less objectionable" you summarized it
as OK.  You can use the term hero-worship if you choose, but it only
approximates what I said.  But I do agree that it is true that those
who accomplish a lot are given greater latitude.

[gentoo-user] F'ing Idiots on IRC Re: A plea for calm

[Stroller]

On 17 Sep 2008, at 00:27, b.n. wrote:
> ...
> In any case, even if r0bertz is a clueless idiot, the only sane  
> approach is even in this case to calmly and rationally explain (or  
> providing links to information) why what he was doing was, in your  
> opinion, wrong.

To be completely fair, if you deal with other peoples' problems on IRC  
on a regular basis then you will know the number of idiots to be quite  
staggering. There is an unending supply of them - if only we could  
fuel automobiles with idiocy! - and always another one ready to pop  
out the woodwork the moment you've dealt with the last one. It is  
staggering how many questions on IRC can be answered with a simple  
Google.

IRC is an informal medium and maybe someone just had a bad day.

I'm not saying the reaction of the devs in that IRC log was right -  
I'd probably get the hump, too, if I were the subject of such rude  
dismissal - but maybe treating the user that way was an understandable  
mistake on the devs part.

In many ways being told you're an idiot is better than simply being  
ignored, because at least it gives you the chance to say, "ooops, am  
i? can you explain what i did wrong, please?"

Finally, I might add that the log we've seen posted was taken without  
any context.  Perhaps the user is known on the channel for his idiocy,  
for winding the devs up, for asking stupid questions on a daily basis  
and not listening to advice given? We don't know.

Stroller.
  

Re: [gentoo-user] F'ing Idiots on IRC Re: A plea for calm

[Zhang Le]

On 15:39 Wed 17 Sep     , Stroller wrote:
> Finally, I might add that the log we've seen posted was taken without any 
> context.  Perhaps the user is known on the channel for his idiocy, for 
> winding the devs up, for asking stupid questions on a daily basis and not 
> listening to advice given? We don't know.

Hey, I think it is time for me to say something.
That was my _very_ first time to ever speak in #paludis.
I did read the paludis FAQ before speak in #paludis. 
But basically the FAQ says nothing about why the option is not implemented other
than some vague argument like "it could be abused".
So I went there to try to get an answer. And... you all know what followed.

Actually I still don't think --resume --skipfirst can do big harm to my system.
After all, my system have been running well for several years.

Vaeth's analysis is very good. IMO, that's by far the most pertinent explanation
to this problem. But that still can't happen in a perfect world, because
supposedly if a feature is required but can't be supported due to lack of a
specific (version) library, ./configure should fail early and loudly.

Zhang Le

Re: [gentoo-user] F'ing Idiots on IRC Re: A plea for calm

[Zhang Le]

And BTW, the command I mentioned in that unpleasant IRC conversation is still here:
http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20061002-newsletter.xml#doc_chap3

If I am an idiot, then all gentoo dev's are too.
Sorry, my dearest fellow dev's, but this is #paludis people's logic and of
course they are wrong.
Because gwn is usually sent to gentoo-core for review before publish. And this
tip could passed the review. So presumably it should be OK to most gentoo dev's.

Zhang Le

Re: [gentoo-user] F'ing Idiots on IRC Re: A plea for calm

[Zhang Le]

On 15:39 Wed 17 Sep     , Stroller wrote:
> To be completely fair, if you deal with other peoples' problems on IRC on a 
> regular basis then you will know the number of idiots to be quite 
> staggering. There is an unending supply of them - if only we could fuel 
> automobiles with idiocy! - and always another one ready to pop out the 
> woodwork the moment you've dealt with the last one. It is staggering how 
> many questions on IRC can be answered with a simple Google.

I myself running a #gentoo-cn, a gentoo-china google group.
Also I am a moderator of two gentoo forums, unfortunately one of them is
temporarily down (linuxsir.org).
Many times, I have exactly the same feeling.
However, I never call a new comer an idiot however stupid his question is,
thanks to the #paludis people. 
Coz I know how much that hurts, both to him and to my project.

Zhang Le

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

2008/9/17 Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>:
> This is after many requests from others for you to calm down on the list

What exactly am I doing that isn't "calm"?

> two private mails from myself asking the same, both of which you have not
> answered.

I only received one, that didn't contain any content worth answering.

Re: [gentoo-user] F'ing Idiots on IRC Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

2008/9/17 Zhang Le <r0bertz@gentoo.org>:
> Actually I still don't think --resume --skipfirst can do big harm to my system.
> After all, my system have been running well for several years.

If you get so many build failures that you feel the need to
systematically ignore them, then your system is not "running well".

Re: [gentoo-user] F'ing Idiots on IRC Re: A plea for calm

[Davi Vidal]

Em Wednesday 17 September 2008, David Leverton escreveu:
> 2008/9/17 Zhang Le <r0bertz@gentoo.org>:
> > Actually I still don't think --resume --skipfirst can do big harm to my
> > system. After all, my system have been running well for several years.
>
> If you get so many build failures that you feel the need to
> systematically ignore them, then your system is not "running well".

	OK, David. You're right and all the people on this list recognizes your (and 
Paludis) superiority.

	You _can_ stop now. :-)

	Here is your trophy for being the winner of this thread:

http://www.tempetrophy.com/images/trophy.GIF

	Congratulations.
-- 
Davi Vidal
--
E-mail: davividal@siscompar.com.br
MSN   : davividal@msn.com
GTalk : davividal@gmail.com
Skype : davi vidal
YIM   : davi_vidal
ICQ   : 138815296

Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[Kent Fredric]

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On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 7:35 AM, David Leverton <levertond@googlemail.com>wrote:

> 2008/9/17 Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>:
> > This is after many requests from others for you to calm down on the list
>
> *mumble mumble mumble*
>
> > two private mails from myself asking the same, both of which you have not
> > answered.
>
> *mumble mumble*, *mumble mumble mumble FLAMEBAIT*.
>
>
So much easier through poo-tinted glasses.

-- 
Kent

ruby -e '[1, 2, 4, 7, 0, 9, 5, 8, 3, 10, 11, 6, 12, 13].each{|x|
print "enNOSPicAMreil kdrtf@gma.com"[(2*x)..(2*x+1)]}'

http://kent-fredric.fox.geek.nz

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

[David Leverton]

On Wednesday 17 September 2008 22:23:24 Kent Fredric wrote:
> So much easier through poo-tinted glasses.

At least you admit your bias.

Re: [gentoo-user] F'ing Idiots on IRC Re: A plea for calm

[Mark Kirkwood]

Davi Vidal wrote:
> Em Wednesday 17 September 2008, David Leverton escreveu:
>   
>> 2008/9/17 Zhang Le <r0bertz@gentoo.org>:
>>     
>>> Actually I still don't think --resume --skipfirst can do big harm to my
>>> system. After all, my system have been running well for several years.
>>>       
>> If you get so many build failures that you feel the need to
>> systematically ignore them, then your system is not "running well".
>>     
>
> 	OK, David. You're right and all the people on this list recognizes your (and 
> Paludis) superiority.
>
> 	You _can_ stop now. :-)
>
> 	Here is your trophy for being the winner of this thread:
>
> http://www.tempetrophy.com/images/trophy.GIF
>
> 	Congratulations.
>   
Winner on what grounds? From the tone of the vast majority of his posts 
it would seem to be "he who posts in most vitriolic manner". Not 
commendable.


Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] F'ing Idiots on IRC Re: A plea for calm

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:55:21 +1200, Mark Kirkwood wrote:

> Winner on what grounds? From the tone of the vast majority of his posts 
> it would seem to be "he who posts in most vitriolic manner". Not 
> commendable.
> 

I think you need to re-emerge life-humour/sarcasm


-- 
Neil Bothwick

If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic.

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Re: [gentoo-user] F'ing Idiots on IRC Re: A plea for calm

[David Leverton]

On Saturday 20 September 2008 05:55:21 Mark Kirkwood wrote:
> Winner on what grounds? From the tone of the vast majority of his posts
> it would seem to be "he who posts in most vitriolic manner". Not
> commendable.

Do you really expect that, after all the lies, slander, FUD and personal 
attacks coming at me and my team from certain parties, that I should respond 
with all hugs and smiles?  That's really quite unbelievable.

Also, this thread was dead for over two days.  Was it really necessary to 
bring it up again?  But oh no, I'm sure I'll get the blame, because I'm "the 
only who still talking", and all the people who I'm replying to must be 
figments of my imagination.

Re: [gentoo-user] F'ing Idiots on IRC Re: A plea for calm

[Mark Kirkwood]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:55:21 +1200, Mark Kirkwood wrote:
>
>   
>> Winner on what grounds? From the tone of the vast majority of his posts 
>> it would seem to be "he who posts in most vitriolic manner". Not 
>> commendable.
>>
>>     
>
> I think you need to re-emerge life-humour/sarcasm
>
>
>   
LOL - I was meaning to agree with Davi Vidal's sentiments (yep - my 
sarcasm is installed ok!), but clearly didn't get that across clearly :-)