[gentoo-user] Mail on multiple laptops

[gentoo-user] Mail on multiple laptops

[Michael Pobega]

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I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years now,
but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee PC) and I
was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good way to keep the
mail synced on both of my machines.

I was looking into IMAP but I can't really figure out how it works, and
Google doesn't offer IMAP, and I'd like to keep this e-mail address. Can
anyone make any suggestions?

-- 
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
 - Richard Stallman

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Re: [gentoo-user] Mail on multiple laptops

[Daniel Pielmeier]

2008/7/15, Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com>:
> I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years now,
> but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee PC) and I
> was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good way to keep the
> mail synced on both of my machines.
>
> I was looking into IMAP but I can't really figure out how it works, and
> Google doesn't offer IMAP, and I'd like to keep this e-mail address. Can
> anyone make any suggestions?
>

IMAP is possible with gmail!

http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=75725
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[gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-07-15, Daniel Pielmeier <daniel.pielmeier@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 2008/7/15, Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com>:
>> I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years now,
>> but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee PC) and I
>> was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good way to keep the
>> mail synced on both of my machines.
>>
>> I was looking into IMAP but I can't really figure out how it works, and
>> Google doesn't offer IMAP, and I'd like to keep this e-mail address. Can
>> anyone make any suggestions?
>>
>
> IMAP is possible with gmail!
>
> http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=75725

Not only is it possible, it works very nicely.   With 6GB of
stoarge for free, you just leave all your mail on the server.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Look into my eyes and
                                  at               try to forget that you have
                               visi.com            a Macy's charge card!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Mail on multiple laptops

[James]

On Tue, July 15, 2008 9:05 am, Michael Pobega wrote:
> I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years now,
> but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee PC) and I was
> wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good way to keep the mail
> synced on both of my machines.
>
> I was looking into IMAP but I can't really figure out how it works, and
> Google doesn't offer IMAP, and I'd like to keep this e-mail address. Can
> anyone make any suggestions?

You could get a small external drive.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Mail on multiple laptops

[Michael Higgins]

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:11:08 -0400 (EDT)
"James" <bjlockie@lockie.ca> wrote:

> On Tue, July 15, 2008 9:05 am, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years
> > now, but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee
> > PC) and I was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good
> > way to keep the mail synced on both of my machines.

IMAP++

> >
> > I was looking into IMAP but I can't really figure out how it works,
> > and Google doesn't offer IMAP, and I'd like to keep this e-mail
> > address. Can anyone make any suggestions?

I've had some luck with unison. Just sync to a common storage before
and after using your laptops.

Good luck.

Cheers,

-- 
 |\  /|        |   |          ~ ~  
 | \/ |        |---|          `|` ?
 |    |ichael  |   |iggins    \^ /
 michael.higgins[at]evolone[dot]org
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Re: [gentoo-user] Mail on multiple laptops

[Michael Pobega]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 08:00:22AM -0700, Michael Higgins wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:11:08 -0400 (EDT)
> "James" <bjlockie@lockie.ca> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, July 15, 2008 9:05 am, Michael Pobega wrote:
> > > I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years
> > > now, but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee
> > > PC) and I was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good
> > > way to keep the mail synced on both of my machines.
> 
> IMAP++
> 

Can I use procmail with IMAP or is that not possible? And how do I
configure Mutt to use download/sync IMAP?

-- 
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
 - Richard Stallman
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[gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-07-15, Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 08:00:22AM -0700, Michael Higgins wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:11:08 -0400 (EDT)
>> "James" <bjlockie@lockie.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> > On Tue, July 15, 2008 9:05 am, Michael Pobega wrote:
>> > > I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years
>> > > now, but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee
>> > > PC) and I was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good
>> > > way to keep the mail synced on both of my machines.
>
> Can I use procmail with IMAP or is that not possible?

That depends.  My ISP allows me to run my mail through procmail
on the IMAP server.  Gmail doesn't allow that, so you'd have to
set up a cron job to read mail from the inbox, run it through
procmail, and then store it back into folders on the IMAP server.

> And how do I configure Mutt to use download/sync IMAP?

Mutt isn't really intended to "download/sync IMAP" (I presume
you're referring to offline usage).  Mutt is intended to be
used online -- to be connected to an IMAP server while you're
using it.

The whole point of IMAP is that you don't download all your
mail.  You leave it on the server.  I've read about MUAs who
are supposed to maintain a local mirror of all of the mail and
sync it periodically with the server, but I've never met
anybody who actually uses IMAP that way.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I represent a
                                  at               sardine!!
                               visi.com            

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Michael Pobega]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 03:54:21PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2008-07-15, Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 08:00:22AM -0700, Michael Higgins wrote:
> >> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:11:08 -0400 (EDT)
> >> "James" <bjlockie@lockie.ca> wrote:
> >> 
> >> > On Tue, July 15, 2008 9:05 am, Michael Pobega wrote:
> >> > > I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years
> >> > > now, but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee
> >> > > PC) and I was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good
> >> > > way to keep the mail synced on both of my machines.
> >
> > Can I use procmail with IMAP or is that not possible?
> 
> That depends.  My ISP allows me to run my mail through procmail
> on the IMAP server.  Gmail doesn't allow that, so you'd have to
> set up a cron job to read mail from the inbox, run it through
> procmail, and then store it back into folders on the IMAP server.
> 

How would I do that? I have no idea where to even begin...

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programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
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[gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-07-15, Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 03:54:21PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2008-07-15, Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 08:00:22AM -0700, Michael Higgins wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:11:08 -0400 (EDT)
>> >> "James" <bjlockie@lockie.ca> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> > On Tue, July 15, 2008 9:05 am, Michael Pobega wrote:
>> >> > > I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years
>> >> > > now, but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee
>> >> > > PC) and I was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good
>> >> > > way to keep the mail synced on both of my machines.
>> >
>> > Can I use procmail with IMAP or is that not possible?
>> 
>> That depends.  My ISP allows me to run my mail through procmail
>> on the IMAP server.  Gmail doesn't allow that, so you'd have to
>> set up a cron job to read mail from the inbox, run it through
>> procmail, and then store it back into folders on the IMAP server.
>> 
>
> How would I do that? I have no idea where to even begin...

I'd begin by reading the procmail documentation and googling
for fetchmail, procmail and IMAP.

Fetchmail is a little utility that periodically polls mail
servers and downloads new mail (via POP or IMAP).  It can be
configured to use whatever MDA you want (in your case
procmail).  What I don't know how to do off the top of my head
is how to store messages in remote IMAP folders from within a
procmail rule.  I imagine you'll have to pipe the message to a
a external to procmail that knows how to do IMAP.

Alternatively, your ISP probably has a way to set up filtering
and sorting rules on the IMAP server.  That _might_ be able to
take the place of procmail.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Hello.  Just walk
                                  at               along and try NOT to think
                               visi.com            about your INTESTINES being
                                                   almost FORTY YARDS LONG!!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Florian Philipp]

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Grant Edwards schrieb:
> On 2008-07-15, Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 08:00:22AM -0700, Michael Higgins wrote:
>>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:11:08 -0400 (EDT)
>>> "James" <bjlockie@lockie.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, July 15, 2008 9:05 am, Michael Pobega wrote:
>>>>> I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years
>>>>> now, but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee
>>>>> PC) and I was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good
>>>>> way to keep the mail synced on both of my machines.
>> Can I use procmail with IMAP or is that not possible?
> 
> That depends.  My ISP allows me to run my mail through procmail
> on the IMAP server.  Gmail doesn't allow that, so you'd have to
> set up a cron job to read mail from the inbox, run it through
> procmail, and then store it back into folders on the IMAP server.
> 
>> And how do I configure Mutt to use download/sync IMAP?
> 
> Mutt isn't really intended to "download/sync IMAP" (I presume
> you're referring to offline usage).  Mutt is intended to be
> used online -- to be connected to an IMAP server while you're
> using it.
> 
> The whole point of IMAP is that you don't download all your
> mail.  You leave it on the server.  I've read about MUAs who
> are supposed to maintain a local mirror of all of the mail and
> sync it periodically with the server, but I've never met
> anybody who actually uses IMAP that way.
> 

Take a look on net-mail/offlineimap. I used it for some time for 
offline-reading while taking a train but I found mail-readers with 
proper support for downloading mails automatically (a folder-specific 
option on Thunderbird, Evolution and Claws, for example) more convenient 
than running another app in the background.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Michael Pobega]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 06:12:58PM +0200, Florian Philipp wrote:
> Grant Edwards schrieb:
>> On 2008-07-15, Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 08:00:22AM -0700, Michael Higgins wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:11:08 -0400 (EDT)
>>>> "James" <bjlockie@lockie.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, July 15, 2008 9:05 am, Michael Pobega wrote:
>>>>>> I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years
>>>>>> now, but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee
>>>>>> PC) and I was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good
>>>>>> way to keep the mail synced on both of my machines.
>>> Can I use procmail with IMAP or is that not possible?
>> That depends.  My ISP allows me to run my mail through procmail
>> on the IMAP server.  Gmail doesn't allow that, so you'd have to
>> set up a cron job to read mail from the inbox, run it through
>> procmail, and then store it back into folders on the IMAP server.
>>> And how do I configure Mutt to use download/sync IMAP?
>> Mutt isn't really intended to "download/sync IMAP" (I presume
>> you're referring to offline usage).  Mutt is intended to be
>> used online -- to be connected to an IMAP server while you're
>> using it.
>> The whole point of IMAP is that you don't download all your
>> mail.  You leave it on the server.  I've read about MUAs who
>> are supposed to maintain a local mirror of all of the mail and
>> sync it periodically with the server, but I've never met
>> anybody who actually uses IMAP that way.
>
> Take a look on net-mail/offlineimap. I used it for some time for 
> offline-reading while taking a train but I found mail-readers with proper 
> support for downloading mails automatically (a folder-specific option on 
> Thunderbird, Evolution and Claws, for example) more convenient than running 
> another app in the background.
>

It works really nicely, but for some reason it dies when downloading
message number 7088... I don't know what causes this. How can I tell
which message is 7088 on Gmail? Perhaps I can just delete it and work
around it...

http://pastebin.com/m45fb8db4

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[kashani]

Grant Edwards wrote:
>> And how do I configure Mutt to use download/sync IMAP?
> 
> Mutt isn't really intended to "download/sync IMAP" (I presume
> you're referring to offline usage).  Mutt is intended to be
> used online -- to be connected to an IMAP server while you're
> using it.
> 
> The whole point of IMAP is that you don't download all your
> mail.  You leave it on the server.  I've read about MUAs who
> are supposed to maintain a local mirror of all of the mail and
> sync it periodically with the server, but I've never met
> anybody who actually uses IMAP that way.

	I use IMAP that way. Nothing worse than trying to get stuff done on the 
plane and not having access to the email though you can see all the 
headers. Thunderbird allows you to choose folders for offline sync and 
you can tell it to use all of them and automatically add new folders to 
the offline sync list. Sucks the first time you sync a large maildir, 
but much more useful if you're offline or traveling quite a bit.

If you're using Mutt I'd look into offlineimap
http://www.linux.com/feature/133834

kashani
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Re: [gentoo-user] Mail on multiple laptops

[Willie Wong]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:43:35AM -0400, Michael Pobega wrote:
> Can I use procmail with IMAP or is that not possible? And how do I
> configure Mutt to use download/sync IMAP?
> 

procmail? Do you mean sorting to IMAP mailboxes? I imagine you just do
the same as normally: set-up procmail to sort to a maildir or mboxes
and just find an imap server capable of serving from whichever format
you choses. 

I am at a loss what you want to do with procmail and imap... AFAIK,
procmail processes mails, at quite a different level from imap, which
transports mail between places.

As to your mutt question:

  emerge mutt with imap use flag. Set up your folders like:

set folder="imaps://<user>@<secureimapserver>/<foldername>"

Ah... google is your friend:

http://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/questions/2008-01/msg01375.html

Now I don't have to type all that much. 

Regards, 

W
-- 
Willie W. Wong                                      wwong@math.princeton.edu
408 Fine Hall,  Department of Mathematics,  Princeton University,  Princeton
A mathematician's reputation rests on the number of bad proofs he has given.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Mail on multiple laptops

[Stroller]

On 15 Jul 2008, at 16:43, Michael Pobega wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 08:00:22AM -0700, Michael Higgins wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:11:08 -0400 (EDT)
>> "James" <bjlockie@lockie.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, July 15, 2008 9:05 am, Michael Pobega wrote:
>>>> I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years
>>>> now, but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee
>>>> PC) and I was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good
>>>> way to keep the mail synced on both of my machines.
>>
>> IMAP++
>
> Can I use procmail with IMAP or is that not possible?

That's perfectly possible, but only if you run your own IMAP server.

I started using IMAP before the advent of Gmail, so this is what I do  
(although I use maildrop rather than procmail). You can use fetchmail  
to get your mail from a POP3 provider and use the "mda" directive  
in .fetchmailrc; alternatively if you have your own FQDN then you set  
up an MX record and have the server listen on port 25 for incoming  
SMTP. The messages are stored in a maildir on your server and then  
your laptop & desktop machines connect to that, seeing the same  
folder view that procmail feeds into.

If you just want to use your single Gmail address and rely on them to  
host IMAP for you then you're probably best off "porting" your  
procmail rules to Gmail's web-based filter setup. When you connect  
via IMAP you'll see whatever folders are set up in Gmail and messages  
will be already filtered into them by those rules.

Stroller.
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[gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-07-15, Stroller <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On 15 Jul 2008, at 16:43, Michael Pobega wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 08:00:22AM -0700, Michael Higgins wrote:
>>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:11:08 -0400 (EDT)
>>> "James" <bjlockie@lockie.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, July 15, 2008 9:05 am, Michael Pobega wrote:
>>>>> I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years
>>>>> now, but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee
>>>>> PC) and I was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good
>>>>> way to keep the mail synced on both of my machines.
>>>
>>> IMAP++
>>
>> Can I use procmail with IMAP or is that not possible?
>
> That's perfectly possible, but only if you run your own IMAP server.

Not true.  You could fetch the mail from the IMAP server, run it
through procmail, and store the sorted/filtered messages back
to the IMAP server.

Here's a program that does that alsmot that (it runs the mail
through SpamAssassin instead of procmail.)
http://www.rogerbinns.com/isbg/

IMO, the easiest thing to do would be to use fetchmail to grab
mail from the inbox and pass it to procmail.  Then you need to
find/write a delivery agent that can store messages in a remote
IMAP folder.  In the procmail rules, you pipe the messages into
that deilvery agent to store them in appropriate IMAP folders
on the server.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I want to mail a
                                  at               bronzed artichoke to
                               visi.com            Nicaragua!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Mail on multiple laptops

[Sebastian Günther]

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* Michael Pobega (pobega@gmail.com) [15.07.08 17:44]:
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 08:00:22AM -0700, Michael Higgins wrote:
> 
> Can I use procmail with IMAP or is that not possible? And how do I
> configure Mutt to use download/sync IMAP?
> 

Maybe you should take a look at imapfilter.

I use this to sort my email on my imap server:

run by a cronjob on my server or
from within mutt with a hotkey which just fires of imapfilter.

HTH
Sebastian

-- 
 " Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. "      Karl Marx

 SEB@STI@N GÜNTHER         mailto:samson@guenther-roetgen.de

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[gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-07-15, Sebastian G?nther <samson@guenther-roetgen.de> wrote:
> * Michael Pobega (pobega@gmail.com) [15.07.08 17:44]:
>> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 08:00:22AM -0700, Michael Higgins wrote:
>> 
>> Can I use procmail with IMAP or is that not possible? And how do I
>> configure Mutt to use download/sync IMAP?
>> 
>
> Maybe you should take a look at imapfilter.

Bingo.  I knew I had seen something like that before, but I
couldn't come up with the right set of keywords to find it
again.

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                                  at               
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Re: [gentoo-user] Mail on multiple laptops

[Nicolai Beuermann]

Michael Pobega wrote:
> recommend as a good way to keep the
> mail synced on both of my machines.
I would definitely recommend IMAP. With laptops you should use disconnected 
IMAP - you wont be online all the time you turn on your laptop. You got all 
your emails as a copy on each of your IMAP clients. Anytime you're online you 
may synchronize to the server.

>
> I was looking into IMAP but I can't really figure out how it works
Maybe one can compare it with a simple remote filesystem.




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[gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-07-15, Nicolai Beuermann <Nicolai.Beuermann@gmx.de> wrote:

>> I was looking into IMAP but I can't really figure out how it works
>
> Maybe one can compare it with a simple remote filesystem.

With a few database features thrown in.

With IMAP, you can create folders on the server and leave all
your mail there.  That way you can get to it with any IMAP
client on any machine.  Most ISPs (and Gmail) offer web access
as well.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm wet!  I'm wild!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Michael Pobega]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 03:25:58PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2008-07-15, Nicolai Beuermann <Nicolai.Beuermann@gmx.de> wrote:
> 
> >> I was looking into IMAP but I can't really figure out how it works
> >
> > Maybe one can compare it with a simple remote filesystem.
> 
> With a few database features thrown in.
> 
> With IMAP, you can create folders on the server and leave all
> your mail there.  That way you can get to it with any IMAP
> client on any machine.  Most ISPs (and Gmail) offer web access
> as well.
> 

One problem I find is that switching from folder to folder takes a long
time ... Sometimes the cache saves, but other times it needs to reread
all 54,000 emails, and that takes quite a while. Is there a better
method of accessing my folders to speed this up?

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restrict the use of these programs. 
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[gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Grant Edwards]

On 2008-07-15, Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 03:25:58PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2008-07-15, Nicolai Beuermann <Nicolai.Beuermann@gmx.de> wrote:
>> 
>>>> I was looking into IMAP but I can't really figure out how it
>>>> works
>>>
>>> Maybe one can compare it with a simple remote filesystem.
>> 
>> With a few database features thrown in.
>> 
>> With IMAP, you can create folders on the server and leave all
>> your mail there.  That way you can get to it with any IMAP
>> client on any machine.  Most ISPs (and Gmail) offer web access
>> as well.
>
> One problem I find is that switching from folder to folder
> takes a long time ... Sometimes the cache saves, but other
> times it needs to reread all 54,000 emails, and that takes
> quite a while. Is there a better method of accessing my
> folders to speed this up?

You've got 54000 emails in a single folder?  Yikes.  I can't
imagine that's going to be very fast even with local mail
storage.  I use IMAP servers that have folders with a couple
thousand messages -- that can take a second or two.  Most MUAs
have a header-caching scheme that should prevent it from having
to fetch all of the headers (let along read all the emails)
when you change folders.  I have noticed that sometimes mutt
re-scans the headers when I change to a folder, but I don't
know what triggers that (it doesn't seem to happen regularly).

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'd like some JUNK
                                  at               FOOD ... and then I want to
                               visi.com            be ALONE --

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Florian Philipp]

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Grant Edwards schrieb:
> On 2008-07-15, Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 03:25:58PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> On 2008-07-15, Nicolai Beuermann <Nicolai.Beuermann@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I was looking into IMAP but I can't really figure out how it
>>>>> works
>>>> Maybe one can compare it with a simple remote filesystem.
>>> With a few database features thrown in.
>>>
>>> With IMAP, you can create folders on the server and leave all
>>> your mail there.  That way you can get to it with any IMAP
>>> client on any machine.  Most ISPs (and Gmail) offer web access
>>> as well.
>> One problem I find is that switching from folder to folder
>> takes a long time ... Sometimes the cache saves, but other
>> times it needs to reread all 54,000 emails, and that takes
>> quite a while. Is there a better method of accessing my
>> folders to speed this up?
> 
> You've got 54000 emails in a single folder?  Yikes.  I can't
> imagine that's going to be very fast even with local mail
> storage.  I use IMAP servers that have folders with a couple
> thousand messages -- that can take a second or two.  Most MUAs
> have a header-caching scheme that should prevent it from having
> to fetch all of the headers (let along read all the emails)
> when you change folders.  I have noticed that sometimes mutt
> re-scans the headers when I change to a folder, but I don't
> know what triggers that (it doesn't seem to happen regularly).
> 

I have ~20,000 mails in one folder. I found some mail reader handle this 
better than others. I haven't tried Mutt but ClawsMail freezes with 100% 
CPU-utilization for half a minute every time the folder is accessed. I 
have no problems with Thunderbird or Evolution, though.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Michael Pobega]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 04:02:07PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2008-07-15, Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 03:25:58PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> On 2008-07-15, Nicolai Beuermann <Nicolai.Beuermann@gmx.de> wrote:
> >> 
> >>>> I was looking into IMAP but I can't really figure out how it
> >>>> works
> >>>
> >>> Maybe one can compare it with a simple remote filesystem.
> >> 
> >> With a few database features thrown in.
> >> 
> >> With IMAP, you can create folders on the server and leave all
> >> your mail there.  That way you can get to it with any IMAP
> >> client on any machine.  Most ISPs (and Gmail) offer web access
> >> as well.
> >
> > One problem I find is that switching from folder to folder
> > takes a long time ... Sometimes the cache saves, but other
> > times it needs to reread all 54,000 emails, and that takes
> > quite a while. Is there a better method of accessing my
> > folders to speed this up?
> 
> You've got 54000 emails in a single folder?  Yikes.  I can't
> imagine that's going to be very fast even with local mail
> storage.  I use IMAP servers that have folders with a couple
> thousand messages -- that can take a second or two.  Most MUAs
> have a header-caching scheme that should prevent it from having
> to fetch all of the headers (let along read all the emails)
> when you change folders.  I have noticed that sometimes mutt
> re-scans the headers when I change to a folder, but I don't
> know what triggers that (it doesn't seem to happen regularly).
> 

Yeah, my debian-user folder is at 54,000 e-mails now. It's pretty crazy,
it takes me about four minutes to access it. I don't know why Mutt needs
to continually cache the data, I thought the idea of caches was to
prevent things like this from happening?

-- 
If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative
programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they
restrict the use of these programs. 
 - Richard Stallman
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[gentoo-user] Re: Mail on multiple laptops

[Patric Schmitz]

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:09:44 -0400
Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 04:02:07PM +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> Yeah, my debian-user folder is at 54,000 e-mails now. It's pretty
> crazy, it takes me about four minutes to access it. I don't know why
> Mutt needs to continually cache the data, I thought the idea of
> caches was to prevent things like this from happening?

That is crazy indeed. I had the same "problem" here and thought a
bit about it, and so, just to hopefully clear this up for others:

Why should one store years old mailing lists mail _on the server_
for ever? 

Why is IMAP useful, because you can access your mails from
anywhere and from multiple clients. But that counts only for those
mails which have a chance to be of interest at different places
(complete personal email, probably).
This is certainly not the case for year old mailinglist mails (which
are, in the case of debian-user at least, also available from public
archives). 
Why store these maybe hundred of megabytes of mail on the server,
there is just no reason. And it should not surprise that clients (and i
guess servers alike) need a huge amount of time to scan through huge
directories, even if only comparing the local cache.

If you don't trust the public mailing list archives, do it like I did
for now. Create a local mailbox (you have to find some certain machine
for this of course, i suggest your desktop at home). 
I called it "archived mail". Then create e.g. a folder debian-user and
just move all mails from the IMAP server to that local folder.
Afterwards you can still access your archived mails from that list,
just not from everywhere (well actually you can by using the public
archives), but you have to ask yourself again: Why should i need that?

Now I have the huge folders lying on my hard-disk, i can search
_quickly_ through tenthousands of mails, and the access time for
opening the remote folders is greatly reduced. If I feel like cleaning
up again, maybe after 1-2k mails, i just move them over again. Reducing
unneccessary traffic, saving precious resources, and able to search the
archive much quicker.

This is just my opinon, maybe someone who had _all_ his mails on IMAP
till now might rethink this.

Cheers,
Patric

Re: [gentoo-user] Mail on multiple laptops

[András Csányi]

2008/7/15 Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com>:
> I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years now,
> but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee PC) and I
> was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good way to keep the
> mail synced on both of my machines.

Hi!

I have used 2-3 machines for 3 years and i have the same problem what yours is.
Fortunately one of my machines isn't laptop and always working. There
made i an IMAP server from this tutorial:
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Email_System_for_the_Home_Network

If I am somewhere in the Universe i can read my emails through gmail,
or through ssh on my machine wih mutt which is running in screen. For
this have to set fetchmail that leave the emails on gmail after
download.
If I am at home, i can connect my IMAP server on localhost with ClawsMail.

I think this working fine for me.

-- 
- -
-- Csanyi Andras -- http://sayusi.hu -- Sayusi Ando
-- "Bízzál Istenben és tartsd szárazon a puskaport!".-- Cromwell

Re: [gentoo-user] Mail on multiple laptops

[David Voge]

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Am Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:05:34 -0400
schrieb Michael Pobega <pobega@gmail.com>:

> I've always had just one laptop so I've been a POP user for years now,
> but I'm finally buying a second laptop for travels (Asus Eee PC) and I
> was wondering what gentoo-user would recommend as a good way to keep
> the mail synced on both of my machines.
> 
> I was looking into IMAP but I can't really figure out how it works,
> and Google doesn't offer IMAP, and I'd like to keep this e-mail
> address. Can anyone make any suggestions?
> 

i have one notebook and a workstation. i dont use the notebook very
often because of that i use only a simple  rsync  to sync the mails
from my workstations and all dokuments in $HOME too.

rsync -avz --progress --exclude 3 $HOME/ user@notebook:$HOME
(after first $HOME slash is needed!)

i dont have problem with that anyway and did not need any other solution
in this time. i works like i want and fast.

greetings david

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