[gentoo-user] proper subject lines

[gentoo-user] proper subject lines

[maxim wexler]

Hi group,

I would like to raise my voice against the use of overly long subject lines that run out of space on the line provided.

Complete sentences are not necessary. A few, well chosen words should suffice and spare the user the nuisance of opening mail that ultimately is of no value to him.

Maxim


      
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Re: [gentoo-user] proper subject lines

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sonntag, 13. Juli 2008, maxim wexler wrote:
> Hi group,
>
> I would like to raise my voice against the use of overly long subject lines
> that run out of space on the line provided.

what is 'overly long' and what space are you talking about?

>
> Complete sentences are not necessary. A few, well chosen words should
> suffice and spare the user the nuisance of opening mail that ultimately is
> of no value to him.

so you are opening mails if the subject is a sentence no matter what the 
sentence is telling you?

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Re: [gentoo-user] proper subject lines

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Sonntag, 13. Juli 2008, maxim wexler wrote:
>   
>> Hi group,
>>
>> I would like to raise my voice against the use of overly long subject lines
>> that run out of space on the line provided.
>>     
>
> what is 'overly long' and what space are you talking about?
>
>   
>> Complete sentences are not necessary. A few, well chosen words should
>> suffice and spare the user the nuisance of opening mail that ultimately is
>> of no value to him.
>>     
>
> so you are opening mails if the subject is a sentence no matter what the 
> sentence is telling you?
>
>   

I prefer as much info as possible myself.  Sometimes the subject can be 
one thing but because there is little info in it, it turns out to be 
something else.  Of course, a error message can be really nice too.  
It's good if you are searching for the error you are having.  I would 
rather have a long one than a short one with not enough info to know 
whether I can help or not.  Of course, the one for this is short but 
doesn't mention anything about others being to long.  I was hoping to 
see someone suggesting that people should have better than "need help" 
or something.  Maybe it should have been " can we have shorter subject 
lines please" or something like that.  Of course, that means it is 
longer.  LOL

I also wish the forum subject lines could be longer and have a special 
spot for "solved" as well.  That is their problem tho. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 
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Re: [gentoo-user] proper subject lines

[b.n.]

Dale ha scritto:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:  
> 
> I prefer as much info as possible myself.  Sometimes the subject can be 
> one thing but because there is little info in it, it turns out to be 
> something else.  Of course, a error message can be really nice too.  
> It's good if you are searching for the error you are having.  I would 
> rather have a long one than a short one with not enough info to know 
> whether I can help or not. 

+1

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] proper subject lines

[maxim wexler]

--- On Sun, 7/13/08, Volker Armin Hemmann <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote:

> From: Volker Armin Hemmann <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de>
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] proper subject lines
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 11:32 AM
> On Sonntag, 13. Juli 2008, maxim wexler wrote:
> > Hi group,
> >
> > I would like to raise my voice against the use of
> overly long subject lines
> > that run out of space on the line provided.
> 
> what is 'overly long' and what space are you
> talking about?

Infant! The toy box is full and some toys are left behind.

> 
> >
> > Complete sentences are not necessary. A few, well
> chosen words should
> > suffice and spare the user the nuisance of opening
> mail that ultimately is
> > of no value to him.
> 
> so you are opening mails if the subject is a sentence no
> matter what the 
> sentence is telling you?
> 

Buffoon! The sentence is telling me nothing because it ain't all there.

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Re: [gentoo-user] proper subject lines

[felix]

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 10:40:08AM -0700, maxim wexler wrote:

> I would like to raise my voice against the use of overly long subject lines that run out of space on the line provided.
> 
> Complete sentences are not necessary. A few, well chosen words should suffice and spare the user the nuisance of opening mail that ultimately is of no value to him.

Under what circumstances does too much info hurt?  It's not like a PhD
thesis, it's just, say, 10 words instead of 2 or 3.

-- 
            ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
     Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & rocket surgeon / felix@crowfix.com
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Re: [gentoo-user] proper subject lines

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:23:09 -0700, felix@crowfix.com wrote:

> Under what circumstances does too much info hurt?  It's not like a PhD
> thesis, it's just, say, 10 words instead of 2 or 3.

When viewed on a narrow screen and the first few words convey no useful
information on their own. I think the important point is that subject
lines should be concise and succinct. Long is not a problem in itself, as
long as every word is relevant. Subjects line "Please help me! I have a
problem with xyz" can be as useless as "urgent problem".


-- 
Neil Bothwick

What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers?
Mechanical Engineers build weapons, Civil Engineers build targets.

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Re: [gentoo-user] OK

[Mick]

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On Sunday 13 July 2008, felix@crowfix.com wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 10:40:08AM -0700, maxim wexler wrote:
> > I would like to raise my voice against the use of overly long subject
> > lines that run out of space on the line provided.
> >
> > Complete sentences are not necessary. A few, well chosen words should
> > suffice and spare the user the nuisance of opening mail that ultimately
> > is of no value to him.
>
> Under what circumstances does too much info hurt?  It's not like a PhD
> thesis, it's just, say, 10 words instead of 2 or 3.

Sorry!  Couldn't resist. ;-) 

I had a guy working for me who used to write the whole bl**dy email in the 
frigging Subject: field!  Arrrrgh!  When I asked him why didn't he use the 
body of the message like 'normal' people do, he argued that he intended 
saving me the time of opening the message to read it.  Sometimes you just 
can't win.

Anyway, as others asked - how long is too long for this purpose?

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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[gentoo-user] Re: K

[Chris Walters]

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Mick wrote:
| On Sunday 13 July 2008, felix@crowfix.com wrote:
|> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 10:40:08AM -0700, maxim wexler wrote:
|>> I would like to raise my voice against the use of overly long subject
|>> lines that run out of space on the line provided.
|>>
|>> Complete sentences are not necessary. A few, well chosen words should
|>> suffice and spare the user the nuisance of opening mail that ultimately
|>> is of no value to him.
|
| Sorry!  Couldn't resist. ;-)
|
| I had a guy working for me who used to write the whole bl**dy email in the
| frigging Subject: field!  Arrrrgh!  When I asked him why didn't he use the
| body of the message like 'normal' people do, he argued that he intended
| saving me the time of opening the message to read it.  Sometimes you just
| can't win.
|
| Anyway, as others asked - how long is too long for this purpose?

LOL!  On another list once, someone posted the whole message in the subject
line, and again in the body of the message.  It was an error, and he
apologized, but your story there reminded me of that...

IMO, I haven't seen too many overly long subject lines, but I have seen several
overly short ones.  There has to be a Happy Medium (tm) out there.  Once we
find one, we can just ask our questions of her... lol! ;)

Regards,
Chris
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Re: [gentoo-user] OK

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 13 July 2008, Mick wrote:
> Anyway, as others asked - how long is too long for this purpose?

for obvious reasons, anything longer than 80 characters

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

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Re: [gentoo-user] OK

[Willie Wong]

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 07:11:05PM +0200, Penguin Lover Alan McKinnon squawked:
> On Sunday 13 July 2008, Mick wrote:
> > Anyway, as others asked - how long is too long for this purpose?
> 
> for obvious reasons, anything longer than 80 characters
> 

Just to be pedantic:

Remember that the mailing list prepends the list name, so I think it
ought to be

80 - strlen("[gentoo-user] ") = 66 chars. 

And if you care about most console mail readers, take mutt for
example, the default install definitely does not use more than half of
the 80 chars screen width for displaying the subject line. So now you
are down to 40 - 14 = 26. 

Oh wait, your question may incite a big discussion with 6 levels of
replies:

26 - 6 * strlen("Re: ") = 2.

Ah! I see why someone changed the subject of this thread to just "OK". 

;-)

W
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Re: [gentoo-user] proper subject lines

[Mick]

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On Monday 14 July 2008, Willie Wong wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 07:11:05PM +0200, Penguin Lover Alan McKinnon 
squawked:
> > On Sunday 13 July 2008, Mick wrote:
> > > Anyway, as others asked - how long is too long for this purpose?
> >
> > for obvious reasons, anything longer than 80 characters
>
> Just to be pedantic:
>
> Remember that the mailing list prepends the list name, so I think it
> ought to be
>
> 80 - strlen("[gentoo-user] ") = 66 chars.
>
> And if you care about most console mail readers, take mutt for
> example, the default install definitely does not use more than half of
> the 80 chars screen width for displaying the subject line. So now you
> are down to 40 - 14 = 26.
>
> Oh wait, your question may incite a big discussion with 6 levels of
> replies:
>
> 26 - 6 * strlen("Re: ") = 2.
>
> Ah! I see why someone changed the subject of this thread to just "OK".
>
> ;-)

Apologies, I was being facetious (I corrected the Subject field back to the 
original on this reply).  There is indeed a need to write meaningful Subject 
lines and keep them as short as possible.  However, the 80 characters that 
Alan suggested may be appropriate for the body of the message, but not for 
the Subject line which is  invariably shorter.

I think that as long as common sense prevails we should be able to nail this 
one to most participants satisfaction.

PS. On the other hand one would think that common sense ought to also help to 
avoid top posting and html messages </sigh>
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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