[gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Florian Philipp]

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Hi!

I've recently moved /boot from /dev/hda to /dev/hdd. Then I've
installed grub with 
for i in /dev/hd{a,b,d}; do grub-install --recheck $i; done

Now the system boots correctly but it takes ages (>10sec) to come from
"Grub loading Stage1.5"
to 
"Grub loading, please wait..."
and then another 10sec or more to open the menu.

I think I had this problem a long time ago but I can't remember the
solution. Can anyone help?

Thanks in advance!

Florian Philipp

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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Mick]

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On Thursday 03 July 2008, Florian Philipp wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I've recently moved /boot from /dev/hda to /dev/hdd. Then I've
> installed grub with
> for i in /dev/hd{a,b,d}; do grub-install --recheck $i; done

My knowledge of bash is less than rudimentary, therefore I am not sure what 
this does - can you please explain (in plain English).  Did you only 
have /dev/hdd mounted at the time of installation?  What else is connected to 
the controller that hdd is connected to?

> Now the system boots correctly but it takes ages (>10sec) to come from
> "Grub loading Stage1.5"
> to
> "Grub loading, please wait..."
> and then another 10sec or more to open the menu.

That's rather a lot!  I have certainly noticed that when /boot is installed in 
the last partition of relatively large disks it takes longer for grub to come 
up, but I am getting ~4sec on a 250G SATA, not >20sec like yours.

> I think I had this problem a long time ago but I can't remember the
> solution. Can anyone help?

I'd be interested to know if there is a solution.  I had taken it as a given 
that if grub is not at the start of a disk it takes longer to boot.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Florian Philipp]

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On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:04:26 +0100
Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday 03 July 2008, Florian Philipp wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > I've recently moved /boot from /dev/hda to /dev/hdd. Then I've
> > installed grub with
> > for i in /dev/hd{a,b,d}; do grub-install --recheck $i; done
> 
> My knowledge of bash is less than rudimentary, therefore I am not
> sure what this does - can you please explain (in plain English).  Did
> you only have /dev/hdd mounted at the time of installation?  What
> else is connected to the controller that hdd is connected to?
> 

The above line is a short version of:
grub-install --recheck /dev/hda
grub-install --recheck /dev/hdb
grub-install --recheck /dev/hdd

--recheck was necessary because the old device map listed /dev/hdd as
an optical drive.

I installed grub on all devices because I wasn't sure which one is
checked by the BIOS. Now I know I can tell the BIOS to look at /dev/hdd
first but that doesn't help.

At the time of installation the system was running with all devices
mounted. The old /boot (/dev/hda1) was unmounted and the
new /boot (/dev/hdd1) mounted.

On the same controller there are two more HDDs (hda and hdb) and a
DVD-burner (hdc). UDMA modes are set correctly by the BIOS, after boot
everything works fine.

There is also a floppy drive and several USB-devices (card reader).

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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Sebastian Günther]

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* Florian Philipp (lists@f_philipp.fastmail.net) [04.07.08 11:20]:
> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:04:26 +0100

Recheck your grub.conf. Maybe you have the wrong root parameter and/or 
path to the kernel image.

Sebastian


-- 
 " Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. "      Karl Marx

 SEB@STI@N GÜNTHER         mailto:samson@guenther-roetgen.de

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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Florian Philipp]

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On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 12:11:01 +0200
Sebastian Günther <samson@guenther-roetgen.de> wrote:

> * Florian Philipp (lists@f_philipp.fastmail.net) [04.07.08 11:20]:
> > On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:04:26 +0100
> 
> Recheck your grub.conf. Maybe you have the wrong root parameter
> and/or path to the kernel image.
> 
> Sebastian
> 
> 

Huh, how does this affect how Grub loads? Remember: Loading the kernel
once Grub is up and running is no problem, just getting to the grub
menu needs ages.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Florian Philipp]

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On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:48:38 +0200
Florian Philipp <lists@f_philipp.fastmail.net> wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I've recently moved /boot from /dev/hda to /dev/hdd. Then I've
> installed grub with 
> for i in /dev/hd{a,b,d}; do grub-install --recheck $i; done
> 
> Now the system boots correctly but it takes ages (>10sec) to come from
> "Grub loading Stage1.5"
> to 
> "Grub loading, please wait..."
> and then another 10sec or more to open the menu.
> 
> I think I had this problem a long time ago but I can't remember the
> solution. Can anyone help?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Florian Philipp

By the way: I noticed that the HDD-LED is constantly on while Grub is
loading.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Mick]

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On Saturday 05 July 2008, Florian Philipp wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:48:38 +0200
>
> Florian Philipp <lists@f_philipp.fastmail.net> wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > I've recently moved /boot from /dev/hda to /dev/hdd. Then I've
> > installed grub with
> > for i in /dev/hd{a,b,d}; do grub-install --recheck $i; done
> >
> > Now the system boots correctly but it takes ages (>10sec) to come from
> > "Grub loading Stage1.5"
> > to
> > "Grub loading, please wait..."
> > and then another 10sec or more to open the menu.
> >
> > I think I had this problem a long time ago but I can't remember the
> > solution. Can anyone help?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> > Florian Philipp
>
> By the way: I noticed that the HDD-LED is constantly on while Grub is
> loading.

As far as I can understand the problem arises because you have installed grub 
everywhere.  When your BIOS kicks in it goes to the first disk's MBR, reads 
the GRUB boot code, which starts probing each and every device where a GRUB 
file system exists.  Perhaps it also checks each MBR?  Eventually it arrives 
at /dev/hdd and GRUB loads up its boot menu.  You can tweak 
the /boot/grub/device.map file to change the order of the devices and bring 
up /dev/hdd sooner.

Alternatively and probably easier would be to change the boot order of your 
drives in your BIOS menu.  Since you have installed GRUB in each drive's MBR 
you should be able to boot straight off your hdd drive.

HTH.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Alex Schuster]

Florian Philipp writes:

> I've recently moved /boot from /dev/hda to /dev/hdd. Then I've
> installed grub with
> for i in /dev/hd{a,b,d}; do grub-install --recheck $i; done
>
> Now the system boots correctly but it takes ages (>10sec) to come from
> "Grub loading Stage1.5"
> to
> "Grub loading, please wait..."
> and then another 10sec or more to open the menu.
>
> I think I had this problem a long time ago but I can't remember the
> solution. Can anyone help?

I don't know what happens here... but I also don't know why you need to 
install grub on every drive. I have four IDE drives /dev/hd[abef], grub 
stage 1 is installed in the MBR of hda, but stage 2 in in the /boot 
partition located on hde. I installed like this:

# grub
root (hd2,0)
setup (hd0)
quit

	Wonko
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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Florian Philipp]

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On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 12:18:28 +0100
Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> As far as I can understand the problem arises because you have
> installed grub everywhere.  When your BIOS kicks in it goes to the
> first disk's MBR, reads the GRUB boot code, which starts probing each
> and every device where a GRUB file system exists.  Perhaps it also
> checks each MBR?  Eventually it arrives at /dev/hdd and GRUB loads up
> its boot menu.  You can tweak the /boot/grub/device.map file to
> change the order of the devices and bring up /dev/hdd sooner.
> 
> Alternatively and probably easier would be to change the boot order
> of your drives in your BIOS menu.  Since you have installed GRUB in
> each drive's MBR you should be able to boot straight off your hdd
> drive.
> 
> HTH.

I think I've already written that I've installed Grub on every disk
because I didn't know whether the BIOS allows booting from secondary
slave and I didn't want to risk an unbootable system.
I've already changed the BIOS boot order to look at /dev/hdd's MBR
first but that didn't help.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Mick]

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On Saturday 05 July 2008, Florian Philipp wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 12:18:28 +0100
>
> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:
> > As far as I can understand the problem arises because you have
> > installed grub everywhere.  When your BIOS kicks in it goes to the
> > first disk's MBR, reads the GRUB boot code, which starts probing each
> > and every device where a GRUB file system exists.  Perhaps it also
> > checks each MBR?  Eventually it arrives at /dev/hdd and GRUB loads up
> > its boot menu.  You can tweak the /boot/grub/device.map file to
> > change the order of the devices and bring up /dev/hdd sooner.
> >
> > Alternatively and probably easier would be to change the boot order
> > of your drives in your BIOS menu.  Since you have installed GRUB in
> > each drive's MBR you should be able to boot straight off your hdd
> > drive.
> >
> > HTH.
>
> I think I've already written that I've installed Grub on every disk
> because I didn't know whether the BIOS allows booting from secondary
> slave and I didn't want to risk an unbootable system.

You should be able to boot and reinstall GRUB in which ever MBR you choose 
with a LiveCD.

> I've already changed the BIOS boot order to look at /dev/hdd's MBR
> first but that didn't help.

Right, have you checked your device.map to see if there's anything untoward in 
there?

> Now the system boots correctly but it takes ages (>10sec) to come 
> from "Grub loading Stage1.5" to "Grub loading, please wait..."

Stage1.5 contains the filesystem driver which will allow GRUB to be able to 
read the fs of hdd on which the /boot/grub/stage2 file is stored.  Since 10 
seconds to read a relatively small file is rather excessive, could it be a 
drive cable/ribbon fault?

> and then another 10sec or more to open the menu.

Ditto.  If it were that the GRUB code in the bootloader went into a loop or 
something, scanning all drives, then by this step it would not need to probe 
or access any other device.  The fact that it takes so long points towards a 
hardware rather than a configuration issue.  Other than that could it be a fs 
corruption problem?  </clutching at straws>

Unless better ideas are proposed you may want to remerge grub, then re-install 
it manually in the first disk MBR using a grub > prompt (as per the handbook) 
and point it's root to your hdd disk.

HTH.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Florian Philipp]

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On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 15:06:31 +0100
Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I've already changed the BIOS boot order to look at /dev/hdd's MBR
> > first but that didn't help.
> 
> Right, have you checked your device.map to see if there's anything
> untoward in there?
>

(fd0)   /dev/fd0
(hd0)   /dev/hda
(hd1)   /dev/hdb
(hd2)   /dev/hdd

Looks clean to me.
 
> > Now the system boots correctly but it takes ages (>10sec) to come 
> > from "Grub loading Stage1.5" to "Grub loading, please wait..."
> 
> Stage1.5 contains the filesystem driver which will allow GRUB to be
> able to read the fs of hdd on which the /boot/grub/stage2 file is
> stored.  Since 10 seconds to read a relatively small file is rather
> excessive, could it be a drive cable/ribbon fault?
> 

And then the system works flawlessly? I don't think so. Badblocks
doesn't report anything on /dev/hdd1 right now and I've checked the rest
of the disk before I moved the system there.

> > and then another 10sec or more to open the menu.
> 
> Ditto.  If it were that the GRUB code in the bootloader went into a
> loop or something, scanning all drives, then by this step it would
> not need to probe or access any other device.  The fact that it takes
> so long points towards a hardware rather than a configuration issue.
> Other than that could it be a fs corruption problem?  </clutching at
> straws>

e2fsck -f /dev/hdd1 shows no problem. dd can read the MBR of all disks
easily.

> 
> Unless better ideas are proposed you may want to remerge grub, then
> re-install it manually in the first disk MBR using a grub > prompt
> (as per the handbook) and point it's root to your hdd disk.

Reemerged grub, installed it with grub-install into /dev/hdd and (just
to be sure) /dev/hdd1, let the BIOS boot from /dev/hdd - didn't help.

Then I've installed grub into hda's MBR. Then something odd happened:
Stage1.5 loads quiet fast but then Grub hangs once again of ~20sec
with: "Grub loading, please wait ..."

Since that is the moment when Grub accesses /dev/hdd for the first
time, I think it could really be a problem with the hard disk, however,
one that doesn't affect anything else. Maybe an automatic SMART
self-test at boot-up? I'll investigate and as a workaround I'll get an
SD-card or cheap USB-stick for Grub, since - unfortunately - the kernel
is too big to fit on a floppy.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Mick]

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On Saturday 05 July 2008, Florian Philipp wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 15:06:31 +0100

> Then I've installed grub into hda's MBR. Then something odd happened:
> Stage1.5 loads quiet fast but then Grub hangs once again of ~20sec
> with: "Grub loading, please wait ..."
>
> Since that is the moment when Grub accesses /dev/hdd for the first
> time, I think it could really be a problem with the hard disk, however,
> one that doesn't affect anything else. Maybe an automatic SMART
> self-test at boot-up? I'll investigate and as a workaround I'll get an
> SD-card or cheap USB-stick for Grub, since - unfortunately - the kernel
> is too big to fit on a floppy.

I know what I would have done - right from the start.  Not used grub-install.  
Not installed it in every single disk.  Not installed it in any partition, 
unless I intended to chainload separately the GRUB bootloader of the said 
partition.  Now, I know that this doesn't help and won't resolve your issue, 
but perhaps next time . . .

I am not sure how GRUB goes about probing and reading boot sectors at boot 
time.  As I understand it at the time it is installed in an MBR, the position 
of the grub fs is also written in there right after the boot code.  At boot 
time the boot code (stage1) jumps to the block device where grub's root fs is 
stored to read and execute stage1.5 which can read the /boot device fs and 
then read the stage2 files, which finally go and load the main OS kernel 
image.  Assuming this is correct, then what you have installed in the MBR of 
hdb and hdd and the partition boot sector of hdd1 is irrelevant and it 
*should not* make grub take so long.

That's the reason why I said something hardware-wise may be amiss, although I 
can see that your checks and reasoning are sound.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Mick]

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On Saturday 05 July 2008, Mick wrote:
> On Saturday 05 July 2008, Florian Philipp wrote:
> > On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 15:06:31 +0100
> >
> > Then I've installed grub into hda's MBR. Then something odd happened:
> > Stage1.5 loads quiet fast but then Grub hangs once again of ~20sec
> > with: "Grub loading, please wait ..."
> >
> > Since that is the moment when Grub accesses /dev/hdd for the first
> > time, I think it could really be a problem with the hard disk, however,
> > one that doesn't affect anything else. Maybe an automatic SMART
> > self-test at boot-up? I'll investigate and as a workaround I'll get an
> > SD-card or cheap USB-stick for Grub, since - unfortunately - the kernel
> > is too big to fit on a floppy.
>
> I know what I would have done - right from the start.  Not used
> grub-install. Not installed it in every single disk.  Not installed it in
> any partition, unless I intended to chainload separately the GRUB
> bootloader of the said partition.  Now, I know that this doesn't help and
> won't resolve your issue, but perhaps next time . . .
>
> I am not sure how GRUB goes about probing and reading boot sectors at boot
> time.  As I understand it at the time it is installed in an MBR, the
> position of the grub fs is also written in there right after the boot code.
>  At boot time the boot code (stage1) jumps to the block device where grub's
> root fs is stored to read and execute stage1.5 which can read the /boot
> device fs and then read the stage2 files, which finally go and load the
> main OS kernel image.  Assuming this is correct, then what you have
> installed in the MBR of hdb and hdd and the partition boot sector of hdd1
> is irrelevant and it *should not* make grub take so long.
>
> That's the reason why I said something hardware-wise may be amiss, although
> I can see that your checks and reasoning are sound.

Just in case, you may want to try this:

# grub  <--Also use --no-floppy if it hangs probing a floppy drive that 
doesn't exist-->
grub> root (hd2,0)  <--If your /boot drive is e.g. in /dev/hdd1)-->
grub> setup (hd0)  <--This will re-install GRUB in the MBR of /dev/hda-->
grub> quit

If this does not help then I am not sure what else might fix it.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Florian Philipp]

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On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 10:08:29 +0100
Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:
 
> Just in case, you may want to try this:
> 
> # grub  <--Also use --no-floppy if it hangs probing a floppy drive
> that doesn't exist-->
> grub> root (hd2,0)  <--If your /boot drive is e.g. in /dev/hdd1)-->
> grub> setup (hd0)  <--This will re-install GRUB in the MBR
> grub> of /dev/hda--> quit
> 
> If this does not help then I am not sure what else might fix it.

I thought I had already done this but just to make sure, I've done it
again - no effect.

If there is really some kind to self-test going on, it's invisible to
smartctl. A short self-test showed no errors, either.

I'll look out for firmware updates for that disk and will buy a small
SD/MMC/CF-card for testing. Maybe I'll also ask the Grub-guys whether
they have any ideas.

Thanks anyway! At least I know it's not just me who is confused by this
behavior.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Dale]

Florian Philipp wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 10:08:29 +0100
> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>   
>> Just in case, you may want to try this:
>>
>> # grub  <--Also use --no-floppy if it hangs probing a floppy drive
>> that doesn't exist-->
>> grub> root (hd2,0)  <--If your /boot drive is e.g. in /dev/hdd1)-->
>> grub> setup (hd0)  <--This will re-install GRUB in the MBR
>> grub> of /dev/hda--> quit
>>
>> If this does not help then I am not sure what else might fix it.
>>     
>
> I thought I had already done this but just to make sure, I've done it
> again - no effect.
>
> If there is really some kind to self-test going on, it's invisible to
> smartctl. A short self-test showed no errors, either.
>
> I'll look out for firmware updates for that disk and will buy a small
> SD/MMC/CF-card for testing. Maybe I'll also ask the Grub-guys whether
> they have any ideas.
>
> Thanks anyway! At least I know it's not just me who is confused by this
> behavior.
>   

 From the man page:

smartctl -t long /dev/hdc
       Begin  an  extended  self-test  of drive /dev/hdc.  You can issue 
this command on a running system.  The
       results can be seen in the self-test log visible with the ´-l 
selftest´ option after it has completed.

I run that from time to time myself.  It takes a while tho.

Dale

:-)  :-) 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Grub on a new disk

[Florian Philipp]

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Florian Philipp schrieb:
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 10:08:29 +0100
> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>> Just in case, you may want to try this:
>>
>> # grub  <--Also use --no-floppy if it hangs probing a floppy drive
>> that doesn't exist-->
>> grub> root (hd2,0)  <--If your /boot drive is e.g. in /dev/hdd1)-->
>> grub> setup (hd0)  <--This will re-install GRUB in the MBR
>> grub> of /dev/hda--> quit
>>
>> If this does not help then I am not sure what else might fix it.
> 
> I thought I had already done this but just to make sure, I've done it
> again - no effect.
> 
> If there is really some kind to self-test going on, it's invisible to
> smartctl. A short self-test showed no errors, either.
> 
> I'll look out for firmware updates for that disk and will buy a small
> SD/MMC/CF-card for testing. Maybe I'll also ask the Grub-guys whether
> they have any ideas.
> 
> Thanks anyway! At least I know it's not just me who is confused by this
> behavior.

A small update: I moved grub to a floppy while keeping the kernel images 
on disk. This solved my problem. Grub's bootup is now only limited by 
floppy I/O-speed. I'll use a cheap CF-card as a more permanent replacement.


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