[gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Grant]

Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every time I
try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else experiencing
that lately?

- Grant
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every time I
> try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else experiencing
> that lately?
>
> - Grant

Not at all for me Grant.

- Mark
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Michal 'vorner' Vaner]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 434 bytes --]

Hello

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 12:41:00PM -0700, Grant wrote:
> Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every time I
> try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else experiencing
> that lately?

On the contrary. But it may be because I finally got little time to look
at all the errors and complaints from the system and solve them.

-- 
Fragile. Do not turn umop ap1sdn!

Michal 'vorner' Vaner

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Friday 27 June 2008, Grant wrote:
> Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every time I
> try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else experiencing
> that lately?

No.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 406 bytes --]

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:01:10 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every time I
> > try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else experiencing
> > that lately?  
> 
> No.

How can you be so certain that not one of the thousands of Gentoo users
is having such problems ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Not tonight dear, I have a Modem!!!

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Friday 27 June 2008, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:01:10 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every
> > > time I try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else
> > > experiencing that lately?
> >
> > No.
>
> How can you be so certain that not one of the thousands of Gentoo
> users is having such problems ;-)

That post started it's life as a four paragraph missive (yeah, I know, I 
get verbose sometimes) so I shortened it to "No, I'm not having 
problems" which I shortened to "No"

Do you think I might have swung from being waaaaaay too verbose to being 
waaaaaay too brief?

:-)

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 294 bytes --]

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:50:07 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> Do you think I might have swung from being waaaaaay too verbose to
> being waaaaaay too brief?

Do you want the long answer or the short answer? ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

When puns are outlawed only outlaws will have puns.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Joshua D Doll]

Grant wrote:
> Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every time I
> try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else experiencing
> that lately?
>
> - Grant
>   
Rock solid.

--Joshua Doll
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Freitag, 27. Juni 2008, Grant wrote:
> Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every time I
> try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else experiencing
> that lately?
>
> - Grant

a botched gcc-upgrade/clean cycle damaged gcc beyond repair - but that was 
easily solved by a 'unpack stage3, chroot into that, sync, emerge --buildpkg 
gcc, cp, emerge --usepkg' cycle. The following harddisk crash was much harder 
to work around ;)

Apart from that: no.

My gentoo works fine and good and without probs.

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Brian Johnson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 606 bytes --]

Grant,

I've had a lot of problems lately upgrading ~arch and masked packages. This
is expected (obviously) but 99% of the time I am able to fix them myself
without going through support resources.

If you're using any that are ~arch and in packages.mask perhaps that is why
you're having problems too!

- Brian

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:

> Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every time I
> try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else experiencing
> that lately?
>
> - Grant
> --
> gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1009 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Grant]

> Grant,
>
> I've had a lot of problems lately upgrading ~arch and masked packages. This
> is expected (obviously) but 99% of the time I am able to fix them myself
> without going through support resources.
>
> If you're using any that are ~arch and in packages.mask perhaps that is why
> you're having problems too!
>
> - Brian

I think you're right Brian.  Of course, this is nobody's fault but
mine for using ~amd64 packages, but I only pull those in if I feel I
"have to".  Quite a few of them now though.  Does it seem like ~arch
packages have been more difficult lately?

- Grant


>> Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every time I
>> try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else experiencing
>> that lately?
>>
>> - Grant
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 568 bytes --]

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:09:16 -0700, Grant wrote:

> I think you're right Brian.  Of course, this is nobody's fault but
> mine for using ~amd64 packages, but I only pull those in if I feel I
> "have to".  Quite a few of them now though.  Does it seem like ~arch
> packages have been more difficult lately?

I think it could be the pick-and-mix approach to keywording, I use pure
~amd64 on my desktop and laptop and the only problems I've had recently
turned out to be a corrupt root filesystem.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Top Oxymorons Number 24: New classic

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Freitag, 27. Juni 2008, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:09:16 -0700, Grant wrote:
> > I think you're right Brian.  Of course, this is nobody's fault but
> > mine for using ~amd64 packages, but I only pull those in if I feel I
> > "have to".  Quite a few of them now though.  Does it seem like ~arch
> > packages have been more difficult lately?
>
> I think it could be the pick-and-mix approach to keywording, I use pure
> ~amd64 on my desktop and laptop and the only problems I've had recently
> turned out to be a corrupt root filesystem.

yeah, mixing isn't good. Pure systems are way more stable.

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Chris Walters]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
| On Freitag, 27. Juni 2008, Neil Bothwick wrote:
|> I think it could be the pick-and-mix approach to keywording, I use pure
|> ~amd64 on my desktop and laptop and the only problems I've had recently
|> turned out to be a corrupt root filesystem.
|
| yeah, mixing isn't good. Pure systems are way more stable.

I would have to agree here.  When I tried to use keywords to pull in some
testing packages, I was in a world of hurt.  When I just chose to use testing,
most of the problems disappeared - those that remained were mainly packages
that would not emerge.  Those have been few, thankfully.

Chris
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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=s87/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Grant]

> |> I think it could be the pick-and-mix approach to keywording, I use pure
> |> ~amd64 on my desktop and laptop and the only problems I've had recently
> |> turned out to be a corrupt root filesystem.
> |
> | yeah, mixing isn't good. Pure systems are way more stable.

Now that's an interesting idea.  Makes sense.  It sounds like I should
either learn to live with stable packages only, or go all out testing.

- Grant
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 824 bytes --]

On Friday 27 June 2008, Grant wrote:
> > |> I think it could be the pick-and-mix approach to keywording, I use
> > |> pure ~amd64 on my desktop and laptop and the only problems I've had
> > |> recently turned out to be a corrupt root filesystem.
> > |
> > | yeah, mixing isn't good. Pure systems are way more stable.
>
> Now that's an interesting idea.  Makes sense.  It sounds like I should
> either learn to live with stable packages only, or go all out testing.

I used to run ~x86 back when even the stable was . . . <aheam> unstable.  
After a few months of regular breakages I decided to go back stable and I 
have been very happy ever since.  However, I am still running a number of 
applications ~x86, but not of course my system/toolchain and have not 
experienced any problems.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[James]

Grant <emailgrant <at> gmail.com> writes:


>
Gentoo is rock solid for me, but, I have endured much pain
since early 2004. I use many system and only stray from stable
when warranted.


> > | yeah, mixing isn't good. Pure systems are way more stable.


Well, I do not agree here, with this blanket statement. I mix a
small number of testing or even unmasking packages, fix the issues
or live with them, and the mostly stable systems are fine. I do try
to avoid testing and unmasking packages. If I unmask something and it
does not work or is a constant pain, then just get the sources
(cvs or svn) and build it like a traditional linux system. This
still works on gentoo....

Yes it take time, but, unless you have time to burn, you should not 
be straying from stable..... (imho).....


> Now that's an interesting idea.  Makes sense.  It sounds like I should
> either learn to live with stable packages only, or go all out testing.


Some like that approach, but I say use a mostly stable system, unless you
need a large amount of testing or unmasked packages YMMV.

Also, always keep at least one system on stable only, for your
main box, imho....


hth,

James



-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Kevin O'Gorman]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1050 bytes --]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:

> > |> I think it could be the pick-and-mix approach to keywording, I use
> pure
> > |> ~amd64 on my desktop and laptop and the only problems I've had
> recently
> > |> turned out to be a corrupt root filesystem.
> > |
> > | yeah, mixing isn't good. Pure systems are way more stable.
>
> Now that's an interesting idea.  Makes sense.  It sounds like I should
> either learn to live with stable packages only, or go all out testing.
>

There's a middle way too, at least for me.  I run stable for almost
everything, but
if there's a feature I really can't live without, I go ~x86 on the specific
package
and <emphasis>version</emphasis> that has the feature I want.

The advantage from my point of view is that the ~arch stuff becomes moot
automatically, and I revert to stable as time goes on and the subject
version
goes stable or is superceded by a later version that does so.  That package
does not have to live on the bleeding edge forever.

++ kevin

-- 
Kevin O'Gorman, PhD

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1463 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Stroller]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1166 bytes --]


On 28 Jun 2008, at 03:47, Kevin O'Gorman wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
> > |> I think it could be the pick-and-mix approach to keywording, I  
> use pure
> > |> ~amd64 on my desktop and laptop and the only problems I've had  
> recently
> > |> turned out to be a corrupt root filesystem.
> > |
> > | yeah, mixing isn't good. Pure systems are way more stable.
>
> Now that's an interesting idea.  Makes sense.  It sounds like I should
> either learn to live with stable packages only, or go all out testing.
>
> There's a middle way too, at least for me.  I run stable for almost  
> everything, but
> if there's a feature I really can't live without, I go ~x86 on the  
> specific package
> and <emphasis>version</emphasis> that has the feature I want.
>
> The advantage from my point of view is that the ~arch stuff becomes  
> moot
> automatically, and I revert to stable as time goes on and the  
> subject version
> goes stable or is superceded by a later version that does so.  That  
> package
> does not have to live on the bleeding edge forever.


Me, too. It works for me & I rarely have problems.

Stroller

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1809 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Mike Edenfield]

Grant wrote:
>> |> I think it could be the pick-and-mix approach to keywording, I use pure
>> |> ~amd64 on my desktop and laptop and the only problems I've had recently
>> |> turned out to be a corrupt root filesystem.
>> |
>> | yeah, mixing isn't good. Pure systems are way more stable.
> 
> Now that's an interesting idea.  Makes sense.  It sounds like I should
> either learn to live with stable packages only, or go all out testing.

This depends on how many ~packages you actually need.  It's 
*not* recommended that you switch to a fully ~arch system 
just to get one or two unstable packages, that's why the 
package.keywords file exists in the first place.

But in my case I found myself adding close to 75% of my 
packages to package.keywords, at which point the number 
stable packages lagging behind everything were so few that 
it wasn't worth the trouble.

IOW: there's no "right" answer, but if your current setup 
isn't working for you then trying something different 
probably couldn't hurt.

--Mike
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Friday 27 June 2008, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:09:16 -0700, Grant wrote:
> > I think you're right Brian.  Of course, this is nobody's fault but
> > mine for using ~amd64 packages, but I only pull those in if I feel
> > I "have to".  Quite a few of them now though.  Does it seem like
> > ~arch packages have been more difficult lately?
>
> I think it could be the pick-and-mix approach to keywording, I use
> pure ~amd64 on my desktop and laptop and the only problems I've had
> recently turned out to be a corrupt root filesystem.

Similar here, just it's an ~x86 system. Occasionally get some blockers 
with brand new stuff as soon as it hits the tree but not much else.

The ~x86 branch seems to have settled into not-so-cutting-edge anymore, 
quite similar to what other distros release - Ubuntu for examples.

x86 seems to be taking it's lead lately from Debian :-)


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Dave Jones]

Alan McKinnon wrote on 28/06/08 08:54:
> The ~x86 branch seems to have settled into not-so-cutting-edge anymore, 
> quite similar to what other distros release - Ubuntu for examples.

> x86 seems to be taking it's lead lately from Debian :-)

Would it were so!

tcp-wrappers bug 158306, opened on 2006-12-13, refers to available 
Debian source patches.

The Debian patches, which enable CIDR notation in tcp-wrappers, have 
still not been applied to the current ebuild.

The last 'news' in the bug was dated 2007-05-28.  Yes, 2007, not a typo.

Worse still is that bug 16091, closed on 2003-08-15, claims that the 
current Gentoo tcp-wrappers ebuild supports DNS.

However, it does not work correctly, either with or without the ipv6 use 
flag enabled.

Tcp-wrappers using DNS works under other distributions; the problem is 
definitely not a configuration error in hosts.allow and/or hosts.deny on 
my Gentoo system.

Sadly, Gentoo seems to be slipping way behind other distributions.

While bug reports are either being ignored or are being incorrectly 
closed, this situation will inevitably become worse.
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

so, have you asked to become its maintainer to fix the bugs?

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Dave Jones]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote on 28/06/08 14:12:
> so, have you asked to become its maintainer to fix the bugs?

Lacking the necessary skills, no.

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[b.n.]

Grant ha scritto:
> Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every time I
> try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else experiencing
> that lately?
> 
> - Grant

Yes. Looks like my Gentoo box is rotting these days, but most probably 
it's me not having time at all to iron out even the smallest things.

I have however a couple of *persistent* quirks I don't know how to fix. 
One is Kopete refusing at all to delete MSN contacts. The other is 
Flash+CompizFusion interacting badly. But I can live with that.

m.
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Joshua D Doll]

b.n. wrote:
> Grant ha scritto:
>> Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every time I
>> try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else experiencing
>> that lately?
>>
>> - Grant
>
> Yes. Looks like my Gentoo box is rotting these days, but most probably 
> it's me not having time at all to iron out even the smallest things.
>
> I have however a couple of *persistent* quirks I don't know how to 
> fix. One is Kopete refusing at all to delete MSN contacts. The other 
> is Flash+CompizFusion interacting badly. But I can live with that.
>
> m.
I think I remembered seeing something on the compizfusion ml about 
issues with flash.

--Joshua Doll
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Daniel da Veiga]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every time I
> try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else experiencing
> that lately?
>

After almost 8 months withtou an upgrade, I finally decided to go on
with it, and to my surprise the only problem was a library that got
borked. After a little research, it was solved and the rest was
automagically done by portage.

-- 
Daniel da Veiga
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[William Kenworthy]

My Gentoo systems get this way for one of two reasons:

Some config files get overwritten (make.conf was one time ) by accident
and a few packages get installed with the wrong build settings causing
random grief

system inconsistency, mainly with libraries.  revdep-rebuild may or may
not help - if not, check all the meta files (`equery check portage`, and
then manually check make.conf etc) and do an 'emerge -e world' and go
make several (dozen) cups of coffee :)

BillK


On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 12:41 -0700, Grant wrote:
> Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day and every time I
> try to do something new it doesn't work.  Anybody else experiencing
> that lately?
> 
> - Grant
-- 
William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au>
Home in Perth!
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Philip Webb]

080628 William Kenworthy top-posted (ugh!):
> On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 12:41 -0700, Grant wrote:
>> Lately it seems like a new problem pops up every day
>> and every time I try to do something new it doesn't work.
>> Anybody else experiencing that lately?
> My Gentoo systems get this way for one of two reasons:
> (1) Some config files get overwritten (make.conf was one time) by accident
> and a few packages get installed with the wrong build settings
> (2)system inconsistency, mainly with libraries.
> revdep-rebuild may or may not help - if not, check all the meta files
> (`equery check portage`, and then manually check make.conf etc)
> sand do an 'emerge -e world' and go make several (dozen) cups of coffee

No problems here now or (almost) ever.  My 1st Gentoo machine (2003)
is still available as a stand-by, last updated 0803;
the current one (2007) has had no problems since install 0711 .

My observation -- I've said this previously, but no-one takes it up --
is that the 'emerge -xyzabc world' approach to keeping things upto-date
is the source of much anguish for users & needs serious updating itself.
I run 'eix-sync' once/week (later today Sat, in fact),
note down the pkgs which it reports updates for (nice colored list),
run 'emerge -Dup world' to get the correct order,
then emerge pkgs individually (occasionally omitting something I don't want);
if it suggests 'revdep-rebuild', I do that with '--pretend'
& again emerge the resulting list individually (omitting eg 'gcc').

I have a list of all the pkgs which are installed,
with dates & what depends on them (if anything) or if they're world/system,
which I carefully keep upto-date as I emerge each pkg.
It's all a Sat job, which takes  1 hour  on average.

If I want a 'testing' pkg, I use 'ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~amd64"'
& record the fact in my pkg list (above).  Done this way, there's no harm.

Here are a few lines from my file 'pkg.ref' :

  W 080623 app-office/openoffice-2.4.1 [ ~ : compile: 2 h 11 m ; 2,3 GB ]
  W 080517 app-portage/eix-0.12.5 [~]
  W 071025 app-portage/euses-2.5.4
  W 080608 app-portage/gentoolkit-0.2.4_rc4 [~]
  W 071025 app-portage/mirrorselect-1.2
    080223 app-portage/portage-utils-0.1.29 [for java-config-wrapper]
  S 080510 app-shells/bash-3.2_p33
    071104 app-text/build-docbook-catalog-1.2 [for -xsl-stylesheets]
  W 071118 app-text/catdoc-0.94.2 [~]
    080301 app-text/docbook-xsl-stylesheets-1.73.2 [for mutt]
    071105 app-text/enscript-1.6.4-r3 [for kdeprint]

The result of all this is that I have (almost) never had any problem
with my Gentoo machines since I started using Gentoo 0310 .

'emerge world' is the source of many problems regularly reported here.

HTH (smile)

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 28 June 2008, Philip Webb wrote:
> 'emerge world' is the source of many problems regularly reported
> here.

Do you mean 'emerge world <enter>' as opposed to the much more 
sensible 'emerge -p world', examine output for problems, consider each 
update, examine USE flag changes for impact, resolve problems and then 
and only then run emerge world?

btw, your manually maintained log is entirely redundant if you emerge 
genlop, and by telling portage to log to disk there is no real need to 
sit glued to the screen watching console output anymore. Just scan 
$LOGDIR/elog/* afterwards to get one file for each package that issued 
warnings and info messages.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 508 bytes --]

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 02:53:53 -0400, Philip Webb wrote:

> 'emerge world' is the source of many problems regularly reported here.

No, it's changing package versions that breaks a working system, whether
this is a result of running emerge world or updating the guilty package
individually is irrelevant.

Bear in mind that every distro, and just about every OS, has the
equivalent of emerge -u world.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

PC DOS Error #04: Out of disk space. Delete Windows? (Y)es (H)ell yes!

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Philip Webb]

080628 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 02:53:53 -0400, Philip Webb wrote:
>> 'emerge world' is the source of many problems regularly reported here.
> No, it's changing package versions that breaks a working system,
> whether this is a result of running 'emerge world'
> or updating the guilty package individually is irrelevant.

No, the problem with 'emerge world' (without '-p') is
that the user hands over control of his machine to an unreliable automaton,
which can do all sorts of damage while he's drinking coffee etc;
if you emerge pkgs individually, you decide exactly what's going on & watch.

> Bear in mind that every distro, and just about every OS,
> has the equivalent of 'emerge -u world'.

Gentoo is not just another distro: if you're willing to rely on others,
why not use Ubuntu, Mandriva etc or buy a Mac ?
the attraction of Gentoo is that it gives you as much control as you want
over what is installed in your box & when & how: you make your own mistakes.
'emerge world' goes back to the early days of the distro
& was AFAIK copied from FreeBSD; the idea has never been revisited.

080628 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Do you mean 'emerge world <enter>'
> as opposed to the much more sensible 'emerge -p world' ...

Yes, of course: I said I myself use 'emerge -Dup world' to get the order.

> ... examine output for problems, consider each update,
> examine USE flag changes for impact, resolve problems
> and then and only then run 'emerge world' ?

'eix-sync' & its colored output does enough of that for me.

> your manually maintained log is entirely redundant if you emerge Genlop

How so ? -- the site given by 'eix genlop' simply goes on re Perl.

> and by telling portage to log to disk there is no real need
> to sit glued to the screen watching console output anymore.

I know: I have  280 MB  in  /var/log/emerge-logs  (wry smile).

Anyway, I've just done my weekly update.  There were  4  pkgs to process
-- eselect-ctags fetchmail autoconf shared-mime-info -- & also  eix ,
which has a new version in testing (safe enough for eix).
Of course, I make use of Konsole tabs to facilitate eix & emerge,
update 'pkg.ref' with Gvim running on another KDE desktop
& use Klipper to copy info between Konsole & Gvim.

I've been doing it this way for nearly 8 years
& have never run into a serious problem: HTH one or two others (smile).

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately: correction

[Philip Webb]

080628 Philip Webb wrote:
> I've been doing it this way for nearly 8 years

Of course, I mean nearly 5 years .

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 909 bytes --]

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 14:57:05 -0400, Philip Webb wrote:

> No, the problem with 'emerge world' (without '-p') is
> that the user hands over control of his machine to an unreliable
> automaton,

No one has ever suggested that you run emerge world without -p or -a.
Damage caused by using a tool badly does not make it a bad tool.
Especially if the tool's documentation specifically advises different
usage

"You should almost always precede any package install or update attempt
with a --pretend install or update. This lets you see how much will be done, and shows you any blocking packages that you will have to rectify. This goes doubly so for the system and world sets, which can update a large number of packages if the portage tree has been particularly active."


-- 
Neil Bothwick

If at first you don't succeed, you'll get a lot of free advice from
folks who didn't succeed either.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 197 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Philip Webb]

080628 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 14:57:05 -0400, Philip Webb wrote:
>> the problem with 'emerge world' (without '-p') is
>> the user hands over control of his machine to an unreliable automaton,
> No one has ever suggested that you run emerge world without -p or -a.
> Damage caused by using a tool badly does not make it a bad tool.
> Esp if the tool's documentation specifically advises different usage
-- dox quote snipped -- 

Yes, I had never bothered to read that, as I didn't need to (smile).

So the problem is not folx doing 'emerge -aBcDdF world',
but folx doing that where they haven't included a '-p' in there.
So whenever anyone asks advice from this list in such a case,
the first response always sb "Did you do a 'pretend' first ? ".

Anyway, I continue to recommend my own approach to everyone, 
while knowing full well they (like me) will go on in their own way (grin).

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 29 June 2008, Philip Webb wrote:
> Anyway, I continue to recommend my own approach to everyone,
> while knowing full well they (like me) will go on in their own way
> (grin).

Doesn't that give you a huge world file and no easy way to identify 
redundant and unused libs?

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Philip Webb]

080629 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Doesn't that give you a huge world file ...

No: of course, I 'emerge -1' when the pkg is not marked 'W/S' in my pkg.ref.
Currently, 'world' lists  97  pkgs ; pkg.ref lists  513  pkgs.

> ... and no easy way to identify redundant and unused libs?

This is clear when a pkg is listed by 'eix-sync' but not 'emerge -Dup world':
then I can use 'equery d' to check whether anything depends on it.
If I remove a pkg by 'emerge -C', I move it to a "removed" list in pkg.ref
with the date I removed it & what it was installed for,
just in case something breaks (eg removing Ghostscript breaks printing):

  REMOVED

  080113 sys-apps/setarch-2.0 [for util-linux : conflict]
  080301 x11-libs/motif-config-0.10-r2 [for openmotif : conflict]
  080419 sys-apps/mktemp-1.5 [for debianutils]
  080425 sys-libs/db-4.3.29-r2 [for python?]

This way, I should always know exactly what is installed & why:
if not, it's my own fault for being careless.
That power over my system a big reason for using Gentoo (smile).

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
-- 
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 29 June 2008, Philip Webb wrote:
> > Doesn't that give you a huge world file ...
>
> No: of course, I 'emerge -1' when the pkg is not marked 'W/S' in my
> pkg.ref. Currently, 'world' lists  97  pkgs ; pkg.ref lists  513
>  pkgs.

OK, that would work.

I suppose I don't stand much chance of trying to convince you that 
portage does a damn fine job of automating this (quite extensive 
looking) tracking process and just correctly doing what you want 
anyway?

:-)

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Anyone else's Gentoo unruly lately?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 28 June 2008, Philip Webb wrote:
> > your manually maintained log is entirely redundant if you emerge
> > Genlop
>
> How so ? -- the site given by 'eix genlop' simply goes on re Perl.

emerge genlop.

When it runs it essentially parses /var	log/emerge.log and gives output 
like so:

     Sat Jun 28 22:09:53 2008 >>> dev-util/git-1.5.6.1
     Sat Jun 28 22:12:28 2008 >>> x11-themes/qtcurve-0.59.3
     Sat Jun 28 22:14:30 2008 >>> x11-themes/qtcurve-qt4-0.59.4

The benefit is that there is no chance to accidentally omit recording an 
update if you do it manually.

> > and by telling portage to log to disk there is no real need
> > to sit glued to the screen watching console output anymore.
>
> I know: I have  280 MB  in  /var/log/emerge-logs  (wry smile).
>
> Anyway, I've just done my weekly update.  There were  4  pkgs to
> process -- eselect-ctags fetchmail autoconf shared-mime-info -- &
> also  eix , which has a new version in testing (safe enough for eix).
> Of course, I make use of Konsole tabs to facilitate eix & emerge,
> update 'pkg.ref' with Gvim running on another KDE desktop
> & use Klipper to copy info between Konsole & Gvim.
>
> I've been doing it this way for nearly 8 years
> & have never run into a serious problem: HTH one or two others
> (smile).

:-)

I prefer to just let the software do what it's best at - mindless 
execution of instructions - and I get on with what I'm best at - not 
mindlessly executing instructions. I figure that if an emerge fails, it 
will do so with identical output whether I use emerge world or emerge 
package. If an ebuild outputs important warnings and/or info it's in 
the log file where I can examine it at leisure. I've never yet seen a 
case where emerge package would have left me in a better position than 
emerge world intelligently used. The closest case was expat, but 
nothing in the emerge procedure would have prepared me for the result 
of that - one had to emerge it to then discover the resulting breakage. 
These days we have @preserved-rebuild to handle even that.

I guess we all have our favoured way of doing updates.
-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list