From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KBciA-0003Xv-UI for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:39:31 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 84AFCE0429; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:39:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hs-out-0708.google.com (hs-out-0708.google.com [64.233.178.249]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5972AE0429 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:39:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id k27so783271hsc.2 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:39:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:subject:date :user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:message-id; bh=DijpdbqU61pzURCW3/AQDSXxGtH9IkoQgWGSIblBcDM=; b=Wc3nyvvolW58NcGvDHbbZ+6iDKZhTNeOTDYnQrsrJt95/mjr5SM6MHKep1N3BI3lSN mVXs1bGUXWuhBc7u3mGZd8ZO+WVQt/8BQL0rXKhOgDIkfXjOGoi3a6K8J12dcuPODQHV gum9uD6GiRcqFEeQXQArE7n6oY5WybmJy1ZJo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :message-id; b=M5Fl0K+4XBEAgnvmv7Vq4RRc7ZDdXoIsMuvRwMd+2hLgkty9116SiJeqX7DQPSqmp/ ORah8dc9KE2uKrKPuOUA7Tqfo64yL2l+czTZvMyzfTPMbdP3caYRNQsT01TxWDZqYR8o FwmTmVJjgpm+ZuDxBOshU3W6uOawOVfwWM0Is= Received: by 10.151.157.1 with SMTP id j1mr450741ybo.173.1214429969034; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.0.0.3? ( [41.243.215.133]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s27sm4218864qbs.12.2008.06.25.14.39.26 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:39:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan McKinnon To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] loop-aes + extra-ciphers... Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:39:56 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <200806251958.18032.dirk.heinrichs@online.de> <200806252246.04930.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> <4862B087.4090105@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <4862B087.4090105@comcast.net> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200806252339.57132.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> X-Archives-Salt: dd0e6ced-a498-4bec-91be-d29199371e41 X-Archives-Hash: cf0db1b637deaa6f062cde22e0f51809 On Wednesday 25 June 2008, Chris Walters wrote: > | This is the point where I start to ask for a citation and stop > | listening to theoretical possibilities and things that might > | possibly could be. Unless of course the exact meaning of phrases > | like "three hundred thousand million years" has a different meaning > | in your universe than it does in mine. > > Whom are you asking for a citation from? I'm asking you to back up your totally unsubstantiated assertions that=20 the NSA et al can rapidly crack decent cryptography > For which particular facts?=20 Pick any one you like from your contribution to this thread. My=20 favourite would be this one: "A final thought: It is a fact that both the US Navy and the NSA are=20 *very* interested in cryptology and data security. The NSA also does have=20 large networks of supercomputers that, using parallel, distributed or=20 concurrent computing principles can crack keys more quickly than you may think." Now that's a pretty definite statement you made there. So, how quickly=20 do you think I think they can do it? And how quickly can they actually=20 do it? > =C2=A0Do you really doubt that the US NSA has a *lot* of supercomputers? Not at all, in fact I would hazard an educated guess that the NSA is the=20 largest consumer of supercomputers in the world, and also that they are=20 very reluctant to advertise the fact. I doubt any of their machines=20 appear on the Top500 list. I say this as a natural deduction from knowing what they are mandated to=20 do and how they would realistically go about doing it. > =C2=A0Do you really doubt that they have experts in mathematics, > cryptology, cryptanalysis, and cryptography experts on staff? Not at all, I would be stupid indeed to doubt that. As evidence, one=20 only has to look at the vast amount of technical literature the NSA has=20 published on the subject. > Or=20 > perhaps you doubt that they can crack any keys at all... Don't get smart with me, jackass. Everyone here who knows a bit about cryptography knows that give enough=20 time and resources any key can be cracked. I asked you to do a perfectly reasonable thing. You are asserting that=20 the NSA can crack keys quickly, much quicker than the average geek=20 thinks they can do it, but you provide no evidence of this other than=20 your own assertion of it. You didn't even give any evidence of why I=20 should consider you a credible and knowledgeable person in the field.=20 Extraordinary assertions require extraordinary evidence and all that. I see 4 scenarios here: 1. You are perfectly correct and can back it up. In which case I'd like=20 to read the evidence. 2. You are perfectly correct and have the evidence but cannot show it to=20 me due to national security or NDA. That's fine, but do say so. 3. You are presenting your knowledgeable hunch/gut feel/opinion/hearsay=20 evidence as fact. that's also fine, but do say so. 4. You are simply making stuff up in varying degrees. =2D-=20 Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list