From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JGFmm-0005u5-2K for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:39:08 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CB5D5E0848; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:38:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from s15216962.onlinehome-server.info (s15216962.onlinehome-server.info [217.160.22.205]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C99E07EA for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 15:38:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by s15216962.onlinehome-server.info (8.13.3/8.13.3) with UUCP id m0JFcij4007446 for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:38:44 +0100 Received: (from weigelt@localhost) by nibiru.metux.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) id m0JFbnSj020993 for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:37:49 +0100 Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:37:49 +0100 From: Enrico Weigelt To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: [gentoo-user] Quo vadis Gentoo [WAS: Daniel Robbins' come back ?] Message-ID: <20080119153749.GC29753@nibiru.local> References: <1200129071.4788842fc5816@imp.free.fr> <200801131523.23859.nagatoro@gmail.com> <478A2138.2030204@bellsouth.net> <200801131745.32588.volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200801131745.32588.volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Terror: bin laden, kill bush, Briefbombe, Massenvernichtung, KZ, X-Nazi: Weisse Rasse, Hitlers Wiederauferstehung, 42, X-Antichrist: weg mit schaeuble, ausrotten, heiliger krieg, al quaida, X-Killer: 23, endloesung, Weltuntergang, X-Doof: wer das liest ist doof X-Archives-Salt: 22fc516a-6f01-4ea7-9ade-e401fa9a6118 X-Archives-Hash: a816237bbf9d22a874b59aa1866efea4 * Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: Hi, > that is one of the most stupid things I ever read on this list. So users > should never be part of discussions? Their needs? Their opinions? well, that's what essentially told to me on -dev before I left there ;-O Maybe it's just an communication problem: devs are usually people who have much deeper knowledge of the whole system (or maybe just their packages) and also different needs than arbitary users. The tendencies of chasing away users might be an kind of self-protection against the "more (end)user friendly" points of view found in other distros (eg. SuSE). > Also, drobbins continued his attacks even after explained SEVERAL times that > the stuff ciaranm was doing was a) wanted and b) helpfull and c) supervised > by devs. Without knowing the details, both parties might have their (subjectively) valid reasons (speaking of the ideas/concepts, not the way they've been expressed ;-o). Maybe the whole project should be more modularized, so forking becomes much easier and still doesn't produce too much duplicate works. A few ideas: * bugfixing on individual packages should happen directly in the upstream (maybe with OSS-QM as "source overlay"), not in Gentoo itself. * package's build/install logic should be entirely moved into the package (so that ebuilds mostly do nothing more than calling the package's build system) * the QM process could be split into several parts: a) per-package (distro agnostic) b) per ebuild (aka the package w/ portage) c) the ebuild within (official) Gentoo On a quick view this looks like a lot more work, but in longer terms it would reduce the overall work (including dozens of other distros around the world). cu -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list