From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IqYqn-0001gd-UR for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:45:06 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.2/8.14.0) with SMTP id lA9IhjHN022948; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 18:43:45 GMT Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.2/8.14.0) with ESMTP id lA9IdGbu017748 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2007 18:39:16 GMT Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f5so541355nfh for ; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:39:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; bh=PoHjvozDjQG8iKLV2oxc+dK1wdHVO2VbDkGscilEkzg=; b=shSoaG+BjvN05/SlZkMdbsxjFFQ6dX5fNruCpDjpoPsV5re9NOjtPlY2a8k9UNP8ozz9B267yq30jadrJsM1XaCBxUIieAfPXUIpxPs3xq/UGnraeTTLtPeNuD2zpiIUeqRh0ABvHtODenmluJF6b6Ii3g9EjjwRgNU3YTUzCaI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; b=teW1+B3VsNHv2FCQEQSFZ95lY/uJso71qxzcZtdeyJcd1o2ktmtz7igeGtsCvXc5hShHWOuyT82I6VgIXTG0+9XXIbrxcUwDcH+v43ZqKMxJLWWELt2vwBm0JFFou34/NvX1skXLKTMIx3PNahgiHq+51rNEMUBrmx+KR0fAnvM= Received: by 10.78.172.20 with SMTP id u20mr2824480hue.1194633555833; Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:39:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from lappy.study ( [213.162.120.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b36sm3099452ika.2007.11.09.10.39.13 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:39:14 -0800 (PST) From: Mick To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] re: about the 2007.1 Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 18:38:14 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <16500229.306811194417456268.JavaMail.coremail@bj163app26.163.com> <20071109123330.0b3a029d@loonquawl> <473455C0.7060200@bellsouth.net> In-Reply-To: <473455C0.7060200@bellsouth.net> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart18396354.EpzbfWi6kT"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200711091838.24840.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> X-Archives-Salt: 5648f1f7-b315-434c-a6fb-24ed678365cc X-Archives-Hash: 01f0bdcb2b779e96cd49cc054b214732 --nextPart18396354.EpzbfWi6kT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Friday 09 November 2007, Dale wrote: > Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 07:21:36 -0500, David Relson wrote: > >> Some efforts were also made with the command line installer. My > >> problem there was typing and overlooking details. If I mistyped > >> something (or forgot to enter needed info) and went on to the next > >> screen, there was no way to go back and correct the mistake/oversight. > > > > There is no command line "installer" just a series of commands to be run > > in a shell. If you miss one, go and do it. Bash doesn't need a back > > button. > > > >> I've not yet updated to the AMD64 version of Gentoo because of the > >> painful memories of the initial installation. > > > > You probably learned a lot from that pain, try it again and you'll > > probably find it much easier. > > And when you are typing in a command, the tab key can be your best > friend. I have found that the tab key can cut a lot of typing and typos > out of the process. I guess the "go-back" button would be the up arrow which should show you th= e=20 previous bash command in history. Anyway, my 2c's on this topic: I have used graphic installers. Two days ago I installed SUSE and three da= ys=20 ago I installed Ubuntu for two different users with different needs and=20 preferences. Of course I have been through the Gentoo install handbook a f= ew=20 times. The first two or three installs I had to bootstrap from Stage 1 -=20 ooohhh, I'll get all nostalgic now. :) As it happens I have not installed Gentoo from the ground up for some time= =20 now, a stage 4 and a remerge with suitable flags for the new box is all I=20 needed to do the last few times. If the need arises (e.g. a hardened=20 production server) I may wipe the slate clean and perhaps even try the new= =20 installer; but thoughts already expressed regarding available memory and=20 speed of installation will probably dominate in my choice of installation=20 method. Either way, by virtue of the fact that I have not yet tried the GU= I=20 installer I am not qualified to say much, just an opinion (and a few=20 hypotheses): I can see both sides of the argument and I think that a super slick install= er,=20 which does not error out in 9 out of 10 install candidates, *will* attract= =20 new users. I also think that when a Gentoo-ified DE/portage pops up a=20 message informing the new user of a number of packages that are ready to be= =20 updated (like e.g. MS Windows and Ubuntu do) the new user will probably be= =20 comfortable to press a button and launch an emerge process. What I can't s= ee=20 happening - other than bitching in every forum and M/L about borked systems= -=20 is the new user readily picking up the pieces when something goes wrong. A= n=20 underlying basic understanding of portage and Gentoo mechanics is I suggest= =20 necessary, for our hypothetical new user. The chosen few will have the=20 will/inclination (and time) to learn, others (the majority) will not. The= =20 net effect without some pilot study is difficult to assess, but my guess is= =20 that overall it will be negative. The few new users we might gain will be = at=20 the cost of significant bad press from the many that we lose. In conclusion, since (from what I hear) Gentoo does not have a slick instal= ler=20 and it definitely does not have a Ubuntu/MS Windows style zero-knowledge(TM= )=20 automated update system, I would vote to stay with the Gentoo handbook. =20 Improve that if you wish. Thanks for listening. =2D-=20 Regards, Mick --nextPart18396354.EpzbfWi6kT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBHNKkX5Fp0QerLYPcRArxjAJ9V2XX1kAhtRThdupOXjuv8JrR8aACgw2aK ISrO5BpTGomTDYsMG+8rbJ8= =aFHS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart18396354.EpzbfWi6kT-- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list