[gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles

[gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles

[Philip Webb]

My new machine is working well & I'm starting to install the system.
So far, there are  2  things I would value advice on.

(1) The mobo (ASUS P5K-VM) manual has as default 'Configure SATA as IDE',
which I have left as is.  However, while the System Rescue CD finds the HDD
as '/dev/sda', neither the Gentoo Live CD nor Knoppix sees it:
should I change the mobo setting (the HDD is SATA) ?

(2) I've been using a  2 GB  USB memory stick to transfer material
from my present machine to the new one.  The space taken up on the stick
is much larger than that shown by 'df' or 'du' on either HDD :
is there some inefficiency in how data is written to a USB stick ?
is there some way of making it as efficient as an HDD ?
I've been using the command 'cp -a', which is slow but usually safe.

BTW I'm amazed that System Rescue doesn't seem to know re 'pppoe'.
I hope to install Gentoo from the copied files w/o using the I/net.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles

[Peter Alfredsen]

On Friday 19 October 2007, Philip Webb wrote:

> (1) The mobo (ASUS P5K-VM) manual has as default 'Configure SATA as IDE',
> which I have left as is.  However, while the System Rescue CD finds the HDD
> as '/dev/sda', neither the Gentoo Live CD nor Knoppix sees it:
> should I change the mobo setting (the HDD is SATA) ?

If it has a setting that says "Configure SATA as AHCI", you might want to try 
that. AHCI is a generic-ish interface that should improve compatibility.

-- 
/PA
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles (1 solved)

[Philip Webb]

071019 Peter Alfredsen wrote:
> On Friday 19 October 2007, Philip Webb wrote:
>> (1) The mobo (ASUS P5K-VM) manual has as default 'Configure SATA as IDE',
>> which I have left as is.  However, while the System Rescue CD finds the HDD
>> as '/dev/sda', neither the Gentoo Live CD nor Knoppix sees it:
>> should I change the mobo setting (the HDD is SATA) ?
> If it has a setting "Configure SATA as AHCI", try that.
> AHCI is a generic-ish interface that should improve compatibility.

Yes, that did the trick !  Thanks.

Anyone have a suggestion why using 'cp -a' to copy a lot of subdirs
takes additional space on the USB stick (over the HDD space used) ?
It doesn't happen when copying a straight set of files.
It won't affect today's installation job,
but wb useful for the future, if there's some way of avoiding it.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles (1 solved)

[b.n.]

Philip Webb ha scritto:
> 071019 Peter Alfredsen wrote:
>> On Friday 19 October 2007, Philip Webb wrote:
>>> (1) The mobo (ASUS P5K-VM) manual has as default 'Configure SATA as IDE',
>>> which I have left as is.  However, while the System Rescue CD finds the HDD
>>> as '/dev/sda', neither the Gentoo Live CD nor Knoppix sees it:
>>> should I change the mobo setting (the HDD is SATA) ?
>> If it has a setting "Configure SATA as AHCI", try that.
>> AHCI is a generic-ish interface that should improve compatibility.
> 
> Yes, that did the trick !  Thanks.
> 
> Anyone have a suggestion why using 'cp -a' to copy a lot of subdirs
> takes additional space on the USB stick (over the HDD space used) ?
> It doesn't happen when copying a straight set of files.
> It won't affect today's installation job,
> but wb useful for the future, if there's some way of avoiding it.

I've seen similar effects on my fat32 USB sticks. What filesystem do you
use on them?


m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles (1 solved)

[Philip Webb]

071020 b.n. wrote:
> Philip Webb ha scritto:
>> Anyone have a suggestion why using 'cp -a' to copy a lot of subdirs
>> takes additional space on the USB stick (over the HDD space used) ?
>> It doesn't happen when copying a straight set of files.
>> It won't affect today's installation job,
>> but wb useful for the future, if there's some way of avoiding it.
> I've seen similar effects on my fat32 USB sticks.
> What filesystem do you use on them?

Another responder mentioned block sizes.  Yes, that mb the problem.
I'm new to USB sticks & haven't formatted them in any way:
they seem to have an existing file system on them,
but mb it's Fat32, which seems likely to be inefficient.
So are there any standard recommendations for formatting them ?
Do I simply do 'mke2fs' (the HDDs are formatted with ReiserFS) ?
How about block size ?  Thanks for the replies so far.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles (1 solved)

[Florian Philipp]

Philip Webb schrieb:
> 071020 b.n. wrote:
>> Philip Webb ha scritto:
>>> Anyone have a suggestion why using 'cp -a' to copy a lot of subdirs
>>> takes additional space on the USB stick (over the HDD space used) ?
>>> It doesn't happen when copying a straight set of files.
>>> It won't affect today's installation job,
>>> but wb useful for the future, if there's some way of avoiding it.
>> I've seen similar effects on my fat32 USB sticks.
>> What filesystem do you use on them?
> 
> Another responder mentioned block sizes.  Yes, that mb the problem.
> I'm new to USB sticks & haven't formatted them in any way:
> they seem to have an existing file system on them,
> but mb it's Fat32, which seems likely to be inefficient.
> So are there any standard recommendations for formatting them ?
> Do I simply do 'mke2fs' (the HDDs are formatted with ReiserFS) ?
> How about block size ?  Thanks for the replies so far.
> 

Ext2 is a good choice as long as you don't want to exchange data with 
Windows (except you can install the ext2 driver on the Windows 
machines). Don't use journalized file systems like Ext3 and Reiserfs 
since their journal causes additional write operations and flash media 
only last a limited number of them. (of course, you could disable 
reiserfs's journal but that's just additional trouble).

Blocksize for Ext2? As long as you don't transfer many very small files 
(<=3k), stick with the default.

If you want to continue using FAT, you should create zip or tar 
archives. That way, you can preserve file permissions and don't wast 
space on your stick.
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles (1 solved)

[Eric Martin]

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Another responder mentioned block sizes.  Yes, that mb the problem.

> I'm new to USB sticks & haven't formatted them in any way:
> they seem to have an existing file system on them,
> but mb it's Fat32, which seems likely to be inefficient.
> So are there any standard recommendations for formatting them ?
> Do I simply do 'mke2fs' (the HDDs are formatted with ReiserFS) ?
> How about block size ?  Thanks for the replies so far.


Sticks are usually formatted w/FAT16 as M$ is giving people a hard time
about FAT32 (which is even more inefficent.)

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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles (1 solved)

[Daniel Iliev]

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 04:51:25 -0400
Philip Webb <purslow@sympatico.ca> wrote:

--snip--
> 
> Anyone have a suggestion why using 'cp -a' to copy a lot of subdirs
> takes additional space on the USB stick (over the HDD space used) ?
> It doesn't happen when copying a straight set of files.
> It won't affect today's installation job,
> but wb useful for the future, if there's some way of avoiding it.
> 

Are the source media and the usb stick formatted with the same file
system? Are the block sizes of the file systems the same?


-- 
Best regards,
Daniel
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles

[Alex Schuster]

Philip Webb writes:

> BTW I'm amazed that System Rescue doesn't seem to know re 'pppoe'.
> I hope to install Gentoo from the copied files w/o using the I/net.

You can also use any other boot CD. Well, unless you use the automatic 
installer, but it seems people don't like it much and prefer to do the 
install manually.

	Alex
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles

[Mick]

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On Saturday 20 October 2007, Alex Schuster wrote:
> Philip Webb writes:
> > BTW I'm amazed that System Rescue doesn't seem to know re 'pppoe'.
> > I hope to install Gentoo from the copied files w/o using the I/net.
>
> You can also use any other boot CD. Well, unless you use the automatic
> installer, but it seems people don't like it much and prefer to do the
> install manually.
>
> 	Alex

Is there a good reason for not using ssh to transport any fs you want from one 
machine to the other?  That's how I usually do it using tar and pipes 
(tar>>pipe>>untar).
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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[gentoo-user] Re: new box

[Philip Webb]

071022 Mick wrote:
> On Saturday 20 October 2007, Alex Schuster wrote:
>> Philip Webb writes:
>>> BTW I'm amazed that System Rescue doesn't seem to know re 'pppoe'.
>>> I hope to install Gentoo from the copied files w/o using the I/net.
>> You can use any other boot CD, unless you use the automatic installer,
>> but it seems people don't like it & prefer to do the install manually.
> Is there a good reason for not using ssh
> to transport any fs you want from one machine to the other?
> That's how I usually do it using tar and pipes (tar>>pipe>>untar).

Well yes, if they're not part of a network (smile).

I've got my new box booting correctly
& am  c 30 %  thro' re-merging all the pkgs listed by 'emerge -ep system',
some of which were installed from Stage 3, but now have later versions.
I never fall for 'emerge world' or 'emerge system':
there are far too many tales of woe on this list due to such trust (smile).
I'm working from a printed list & adding each pkg to my master list
or more accurately my list of pkgs installed in my current machine.
The new one is lightning-fast, so it's not as painful as it might sound.

BTW there have been  3  glitches so far:
(1) it refused to compile 'sandbox' with some error;
(2) it can't find 'revdep-rebuild' despite saying I should run it !
(3) 'busybox' doesn't default to 'static' as on my current machine.
Any comments or advice welcome, but these haven't stopped the show.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: new box

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:30:58 -0400, Philip Webb wrote:

> I've got my new box booting correctly
> & am  c 30 %  thro' re-merging all the pkgs listed by 'emerge -ep
> system', some of which were installed from Stage 3, but now have later
> versions. I never fall for 'emerge world' or 'emerge system':

You don't trust emerge system, but you are 30% through emerge system?

> there are far too many tales of woe on this list due to such trust

Bad news travels, good news stays put. Think how noisy this list would gt
if everyone posted every time they had a successful emerge!

> BTW there have been  3  glitches so far:
> (1) it refused to compile 'sandbox' with some error;

this is often fixed by 'FEATURES="-sandbox" emerge -1 sandbox', as
mentioned in the elog output.

> (2) it can't find 'revdep-rebuild' despite saying I should run it !

emerge gentoolkit, doesn't the message that tells you to run it tell you
how to get it?

> (3) 'busybox' doesn't default to 'static' as on my current machine.

Do you have busybox in /etc/portage/package.use on your current machine?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Borg -- James Borg -- licensed to assimilate.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: new box

[Albert Hopkins]

On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 00:50 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > I've got my new box booting correctly
> > & am  c 30 %  thro' re-merging all the pkgs listed by 'emerge -ep
> > system', some of which were installed from Stage 3, but now have
> later
> > versions. I never fall for 'emerge world' or 'emerge system':
> 
> You don't trust emerge system, but you are 30% through emerge system?
> 
> > there are far too many tales of woe on this list due to such trust
> 
> Bad news travels, good news stays put. Think how noisy this list would
> gt
> if everyone posted every time they had a successful emerge!

Success.  Actually on one of my boxes I have a cron job that runs once a
month that effectively does an 'emerge -e world'.  And usually I have 2
or 3 out of 700+ packages fail (usually because /usr/src/linux isn't
pointing to the current kernel or once in a while avidemux will fail
(it's hard masked anyway).

But as always YMMV.

--
Albert W. Hopkins

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: new box

[Philip Webb]

071023 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:30:58 -0400, Philip Webb wrote:
>> (1) it refused to compile 'sandbox' with some error;
> this is often fixed by 'FEATURES="-sandbox" emerge -1 sandbox'

It was fixed, as were errors in compiling Glibc & Gcc,
by enabling 'IA32' in the kernel: IIRC this isn't mentioned in the dox.

>> (2) it can't find 'revdep-rebuild' despite saying I should run it !
> emerge gentoolkit, doesn't the message that tells you to run it
> tell you how to get it?

The issue is why the package providing a necessity like 'revdep-rebuild'
is not included in the 'system' list, but has to be emerged separately.
Does anyone have an explanation (smile) ?

The new machine (Intel Core 2 Duo 6750; memory 1066 MHz) is lightning-fast;
the 2003 box (AMD Athlon 2500+; memory 400 MHz) is no sloth,
but the new one is  c 3 times  faster (earlier downloads were  c 5 min ) :

  gtk+-2.10.14              13 m     5 m  1 s
  xorg-server-1.3.0.0-r1    16 m     6 m 15 s
  glibc-2.6.1               41 m    13 m  4 s + download
  gcc-4.1.2                 87 m    34 m 19 s + download

It makes up for all those years I used my little XT (due for a museum)
to access a UoT mainframe, being too poor to upgrade
(which did prevent me from ever taking up M$ Windows (big grin)).

As always, thanks to all the devs who make Gentoo work so well.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,  Philip Webb : purslow@chass.utoronto.ca
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'  University of Toronto
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