From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1IBKay-0002Mp-BJ for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:14:20 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l6J1Cfnw031647; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:12:41 GMT Received: from ender.volumehost.net (adsl-69-154-123-202.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net [69.154.123.202]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l6J16dWj023960 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:06:39 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ender.volumehost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B28D20DC6 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:42:08 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at volumehost.net Received: from ender.volumehost.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ender.volumehost.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id AuR5Sefl4LcT for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:42:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from znxp175036.compucom.local (adsl-65-65-35-81.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net [65.65.35.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ender.volumehost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0AA920A16 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:42:03 +0000 (UTC) From: "Boyd Stephen Smith Jr." To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] 2 to 3?? Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:41:57 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <14178ED3A898524FB036966D696494FB138F1B@messenger.cv63.navy.mil> <808DDF64-2B2A-4BA9-A7AE-B2CC1FA480EE@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> <200707190148.38140.volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> In-Reply-To: <200707190148.38140.volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart26940226.s5kea7dang"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200707181942.02458.bss03@volumehost.net> X-Archives-Salt: bda11f08-d2cc-42ab-b6d7-9dbf2ef8e422 X-Archives-Hash: 23d057d2db4d1da494ee40011f405764 --nextPart26940226.s5kea7dang Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Wednesday 18 July 2007 06:48:38 pm Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > On Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2007, Stroller wrote: > > On 18 Jul 2007, at 18:40, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > [C]ould > ANYBODY claim to be surprised by say Tivo? Yes they can, since the move to DRM/TPM/etc. devices was unannounced and a= =20 change from previous generations of the hardware. There's also the fact th= at=20 the code the TiVo runs *must have a signature as one of it parts* and like= =20 any GPLv2 derivative, distributors (like TiVo) must provide the full and=20 complete source ("preferred form for modification") of all the parts, which= =20 they have not. This "signature requirement" is implicit in the GPLv2 and explicit in the=20 GPLv3. So was the patent license stuff. The GPLv3 is just a stronger, mor= e=20 well-specified GPLv2. If you don't like the GPLv3, you probably didn't=20 *really* like the GPLv2 and might be more interested in licensing anything= =20 you contribute under something like MIT/X11/BSD. Those licenses allow others to take your code, cripple it, and sell it to y= ou=20 (perhaps even on a device) for $100. Oh, and offer you an "upgrade" to (_t= he=20 same device_ running) your original code (which still has a few bugs, you=20 might want a support contract) for $10000. > Plus, people who are discussing 'ethical' problems with locked hardware > tend to forget, that there is enough hardware out there that a) needs an > update once in a while but b) has to be temper proof by the user! You mig= ht > want to read up about clinical equipment or FCC rules. Just for fun. Actually, during the GPLv3 process, both these points (FCC and medical=20 equipment) were brought up and experts were brought in. It was determined= =20 that there is no legal requirement to make such devices tamper-proof, if=20 upgrades are allowed at all. Equipment distributors are already protected from lawsuits (and the like) o= nce=20 a device is tampered with as long as they give the tamperer sufficient=20 warning. There is no legal reason why devices must be upgradable by their distributo= r=20 but not by their owner, including devices under the auspices of the FCC or= =20 medical devices. > Some people need to realize that there is a fundamental difference between > code and hardware. The FSF knows there's a difference between code and hardware. However, the= re=20 is no difference between code on a HD and code on an EEPROM. (It's all jus= t=20 readable and writable bits.) There's also no difference between code on a = CD=20 and code on a ROM chip. (It's all just reabable bits.) > And telling someone what he can do with HIS hardware is=20 > just wrong. You don't like the terms of the hardware vendor? Fine. Don't > buy it. But buying it and than complaining is just lame. If they sell it to me it is no longer their hardware. It's MINE. That's w= hy=20 DRM shouldn't be allowed AT ALL, completely independent of the software=20 distribution requirements (not hardware requirements) that the GPLv3=20 specifies. If TiVo was renting (really renting, not just "in name" like "$129 lets you= =20 rent the device for 99 years") the devices, I would probably be on the othe= r=20 side of this discussion. =2D-=20 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ,=3D ,-_-. = =3D.=20 bss03@volumehost.net =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0((_/)o o(\_= )) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 `-'(. .)`-'=20 http://iguanasuicide.org/ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0\_/ = =A0 =A0=20 --nextPart26940226.s5kea7dang Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBGnrNadNbfk+86fC0RAkiLAJ9u3uSwNnSSoODxDS2bFdvvkF580wCfd4JM Mv6kkcYHFx4wS5Fe1qKWyRg= =RMxQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart26940226.s5kea7dang-- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list